October 31, 2004 Meeting
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Back to News
5pm EST (no longer Daylight Savings Time)
Transcript team: ArPharazon, Turgon,
Letter to Tolkien Encyc
showing some problems. Worked on and solved some.
Hobbit: map confusion and
Meeting Begins (formally anyway)
Embla-(TV) - reports on New
Zealand's LotR filming sites
Luthien Tindomeral-V in TFT
Beren's Lore Book
New section: Fellowship
Help locating bad
links needed while Encyc is undergoing re-build, all articles and
authors getting their own pages. Gilraen and Eonwe have been helping.
Valar Gaming Report text on News
Azure Dreams. In
BroodWar: Orodreth. In
Gilraen's Role-playing game.
New characters can now enter.
Guild Wars Beta
Interplay: included LotR
games. In After-meeting
Role-playing game on our Forum. Good spot now for Mirkwood Elf
characters to join our party.
Throne: new map
In Before-meeting: Hobbit:
Map confusion and solved it
In Tolkien section: Gondolin's
Forum: number of pm's we can
Online rp talk
You have just entered room "Valar
has entered the room.
Orodreth V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: already here :-)
Orodreth V: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: heya all :}
Eonwe Valar: I always send invites
to everyone just in case :}
GilraenV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: That should be everyone
on my list
Eonwe Valar: semi- afk now,..
ArPharazonV: in game, will be right
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: heya :} So my
invitation wasn't fancy enough for you? :}
Eonwe Valar: only gold frills, not
mithril? too plain? :}
GwaihirValar: when compared to my
beloved's invite... ;-)
GilraenV: It's 'cause I'm
Eonwe Valar: well, ok :} I won't
argue then :}
ArPharazonV: ok, back
Eonwe Valar: wb :}
Orodreth V: I'm afk, trying to manage a dozen conversations and edit
o*counts* 4 short stories, all at the same time.
so, what did you think of guildwars-weekend?
You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
Eonwe Valar: heya :}
Eonwe Valar: Varda's name is
dazzlingly bright today :}
Eonwe Valar: yellow :}
VardaValar1: Yours looks pine green
ArPharazonV: it's all about the
order in which you came into the channel...
VardaValar1: Phar's looks gray
ArPharazonV: to yourself, you always
Eonwe Valar: Phar's is pink :}
ArPharazonV: oro is pink to me
VardaValar1: Happy Halloween and
time change :-)
ArPharazonV: and gilraen would be
grey to Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: Happy Daylight Savings
time end day :}
GilraenV: VardaValar1:Eonwe Valar: ArPharazonV:Orodreth VGwaihirValar:
GilraenV: my colours. and happy
ArPharazonV: happy halloween...
ArPharazonV: even though we don't do
VardaValar1: I'm going to show you
guys a letter just came in
VardaValar1: Have to do it in pieces
VardaValar1: hello i was looking at
your website of toilkens encyclopedia where i was looking for facts on
the nine ringwraiths[nazgul]much to my upset you have not got any facts
on them although i may be looking for them in
VardaValar1: the wrong part i doubt
that i am.if i am indeed looking for them in the wrong part please can
you email me back with the way to go about looking for them.if they are
indeed not in this website can you please email me back
VardaValar1: with this fact.i will
be most grateful for speed in delivery of this mail as i need these
facts for coursework of english lituture.yours sincerly
VardaValar1: I will leave off the
Eonwe Valar: cool, we get people
doing literature research
Eonwe Valar: afk for a few
GilraenV: do we really not have
anything on nazgul?
ArPharazonV: the encyc is actually
used for research... by outsiders... must be quite a boost to your
morale, Varda :-)
VardaValar1: It's often used for
research, not what I was pointing out
VardaValar1: I remember putting
stuff in, but it's obviously not where it can be found easily
Arwen V1: Can you find it?
I'll look harder now. Not good
VardaValar1: I've been rigging a way
to search by letter to help locate
VardaValar1: not finished, though
VardaValar1: Funny, I did not find
it a morale boost at all
VardaValar1: It says the Encyc is
not the help it should be
VardaValar1: Worse, I remember an
article on Khamul and another on the Witch-king, not locating them
VardaValar1: There's the Witch-king
VardaValar1: Ringwraiths, etc
Arwen V1: I found them
No link to them is the problem
VardaValar1: Will fix
VardaValar1: O good :-)
Arwen V1: mankind - king list, bottom, ringwraiths
perhaps we should have different sections that link to the article,
instead of one section
Arwen V1: under the almost men section
sure enough. Bad labeling
VardaValar1: Takes an Arwen to find
VardaValar1: I know you're extra
Arwen V1: hehe
Arwen V1: thanks =)
Musics4Me2 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Farmer
Eonwe Valar: leaving for asec,..
gotta switch lines
ArPharazonV: you were putting all
the articles on seperate pages, right?
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: so, instead of having
the sections themselves displaying the articles, they just link to
VardaValar1: should load faster,
allow several types of navigation
ArPharazonV: that could allow for
each article to have different sections link to it, if they don't
exactly fall in one category...
ArPharazonV: and that could also
allow for several more abstract categories, like 'forces of
evil/mordor' or something for the nazgul, instead of just mankind
ArPharazonV: which would also give
you better navigation and user-friendliness
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: hantalye
VardaValar1: Right Phar. That's the
ArPharazonV: in that case, problems
like with these nazgul should soon be solved, right?
VardaValar1: I have way too many
people talking at me in separate windows
VardaValar1: It is ok to talk in the
VardaValar1: I will keep the threads
separate, more or less :-)
Orodreth V: *gasp*
Orodreth V: Talk..in a chat room?!
Orodreth V: </mock horror>
Please please : )
ArPharazonV: well, I can repeat here
what I just told Varda
ArPharazonV: I just reread the hobbit last week
ArPharazonV: and studying both maps
(thror's, and the one of Wilderland) I'm a lil confused about Dale, and
the course of the river
ArPharazonV: they seem to contradict
each other, and the hints in the book (about crossing the river and
such) are not quite matching up either
ArPharazonV: now for several
purposes, and curiosity, I'm trying to form a map in my head of the
environment, but as such, it's proving a little difficult
VardaValar1: Try the Shire Post
link, new one still on News
VardaValar1: for the Shire area
VardaValar1: Do you remember the
ArPharazonV: yes, I know a few..
ArPharazonV: but for exact details,
lemme fetch the book, it's nearby
ArPharazonV: ok, back
ArPharazonV: if we look at the map
at the back of the book, about Wilderland, we see the river turning
east very early, then south again after a distance, and running on
quite straight to Esgaroth
ArPharazonV: this would fit with the
statement that when Bilbo and the Dwarves exit the river, they branch
off west from it, and thus come to the mountain, effectively taking a
ArPharazonV: if we look at Thror's
map at the beginning of the book, it shows something different:
ArPharazonV: the river goes a little
south, then east taking a circle around Dale, skirting the southwest
spur, and continuing towards the southwest, to the long lake
ArPharazonV: this makes a lot more
sense if you have the maps with you... should I provide a quick link
ArPharazonV: there are other
examples besides this obvious contradiction
ArPharazonV: for example, in the
book it is said in one point, that the Elves and Men besieging the
mountain move their camp from Dale, and east across the river, to get
closer to the gate
ArPharazonV: with a little
imagination, I can still understand this description, although
literally taken they would not really get closer to the gate
ArPharazonV: when Dain arrives, he
stops east from the river, and sends messengers across the river,
towards the human/elven camp
ArPharazonV: of course, this doesn't
fit with each other either
ArPharazonV: certainly not if you
take both maps into account
TurgonjustTurgon: just a point of note
ArPharazonV: after discussing this a
bit with Fladrif when I saw him in the bus, he
said he had noticed the same contradictions, and I wondered if any of
you had noticed them as well, and come to a conclusion...
ArPharazonV: go ahead, Turg
TurgonjustTurgon: you sure it said that
the Elf / Humand camp moved east of the river?
ArPharazonV: yes, they crossed the
river, and put a new camp at the eastside
Musics4Me2 has left the room.
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: well.... taken into
account that the books handle from Thorin's map
TurgonjustTurgon: it COULD be possible
that the messenger went accros the river twice...
ArPharazonV: 'That day the camp was
moved to the east of the river, right between the arms of the Mountain.'
TurgonjustTurgon: maybe, because the loop
around dale in the river might bring it to a point where it is hard to
traverse the land east of that spot
ArPharazonV: hey, you could be
TurgonjustTurgon: thus, Dain, coming from
the east and a little south, up to Dale, would stop south of those
mountain arms and east of the river
TurgonjustTurgon: so, that would mean
that the messenger had to cross the river to the west, into Dale, and
then east again to the Elves
TurgonjustTurgon: this too, would be of
great tactical value
TurgonjustTurgon: because the Dwarves now
did not have to cross the river once, but twice
ArPharazonV: that would make
sense... according to a later point in that conversation with the
messengers, the dwarves were planning to go through that small passage
between mountain and river
ArPharazonV: to get to the gate
TurgonjustTurgon: while the Elven and
Human archers could take the advantage of that
ArPharazonV: but the camp would be
right in the way...
TurgonjustTurgon: that too
ArPharazonV: still, how would it
explain Bilbo, with the Arkenstone, had to cross the river to get to
TurgonjustTurgon: and because the narrow
passage would be very easy to defend from the new camp
TurgonjustTurgon: well, that might be
because the gate itself is a doorway from which the river ushers
VardaValar1: Ok, improved
navigation, emailed the guy. Back.
TurgonjustTurgon: and the path beside the
river, would most likely lead directly into Dale
TurgonjustTurgon: thus on the west side
of the river
ArPharazonV: ah yes, but I saw
something about that too
ArPharazonV: when the party of 14
went to Ravenhill, which is on the southwest spur
ArPharazonV: they took that same
ArPharazonV: that Bilbo took as well
ArPharazonV: although the road they
took then, was on the left side of the stream
ArPharazonV: which is, assumedly,
the east side
TurgonjustTurgon: which from south view
would be correct
TurgonjustTurgon: and at the time they
wer geoing to Ravenhill, their main camp was exactly where the Human /
Elf camp would be later
ArPharazonV: they came from the
north, you know
TurgonjustTurgon: too long of the Hobbit
for me to remember that part clearly
VardaValar1: Reason we are allowed
to use books during the chat. This is not a test ;-)
ArPharazonV: in that case, Bilbo
came from the right side of the stream the second time, and took that
crossing in the exact opposite direction...
ArPharazonV: which could fit, seeing
as the company of 14 had walled up the gate and made a new exit
TurgonjustTurgon: my copy of the Hobbit
is somewhere, I have no idea where tho
ArPharazonV: hmm... this could
explain most of the hints and directions
ArPharazonV: except for one thing:
TurgonjustTurgon: you do know that altho
Tolkien was very meticolous in his describing, he didn't always give
detailed account of everything
ArPharazonV: the party, as I said,
when they left the river to go to the mountain, took off in a
northwestern direction, away from the river
ArPharazonV: which fits with the map
of wilderland, but not at all with Thror's map
ArPharazonV: and as such, not with
the other hints as well
ArPharazonV: this would mean he
created the map of wilderland first, and thror's map only after they
had reached the mountain... and he never took the time to correlate the
two with each other
ArPharazonV: so he made the map of
wilderland, and then wrote about the party going to the mountain from
ArPharazonV: after that, he drew out
thror's map, and after that, he came up with the whole
ArPharazonV: I'm starting to think
like Christopher in the Histories now...
ArPharazonV: taking all this into
consideration, I can clearly see I have to follow the map of Thror, and
not the one of Wilderland... and the only statement I cannot use is the
one where they leave the river
TurgonjustTurgon: well, looking at the
magnitude of Tolkien's writings, and even at the Hobbit he was very
busy with creating his languages, I wouldn't blame him if he slipped an
error or 2
ArPharazonV: well, I think this
clears out any confusion the book gave me.. thanks
ArPharazonV: I'll pass the news to
VardaValar1: It will also be in the
ArPharazonV: yes, that too, of
VardaValar1: Gilraen, thanks for
your help with the links
ArPharazonV: I think I'm all set now
to draw out the chapters, so I can put them to good use in the war3
ArPharazonV: that was the actual
main reason of putting the chapters in maps in my head
VardaValar1: Phar, may we start the
business meeting now? :-)
ArPharazonV: yes, go ahead
VardaValar1: Thanks ever so
ArPharazonV: my problem is dealt with
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1: Members Info
VardaValar1: Valar Standard Time is now an hour later
VardaValar1: since ESDT is now EST
seems more active again
sauronjag has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Lungorthin :-)
sauronjag: Hola :-)
VardaValar1: No new members this week
sauronjag: (I can only stay about a minute! but I will keep it
open and try to chat in awhile. happy halloween everyone)
VardaValar1: Embla-(TV) is still in New Zealand, emailing us
reports of the filming sites for the LotR movie
VardaValar1: Thanks, Lungorthin
VardaValar1: Did you have any web
reports, o White Demon?
VardaValar1: He handles our Book
List and Review section, as well as DAoC
VardaValar1: Web News:
sauronjag: Nope. I've been looking into dark age again, but I'm
not sure if I' mgoing to be able to actually do anything about it
Okie dokie. Good luck with it
VardaValar1: Tolkien Encyclopedia:
sauronjag: I've been nonstop busy for a long time now and it's not
slowing down :-) Namarie everyone
Namarie, hard-working one. We know how it is
VardaValar1: Tolkien Encyclopedia:
VardaValar1: new section: Fellowship
VardaValar1: Sub-categories in it,
anyone can add to them. It will be mostly links to those, it looks like
VardaValar1: Some things did not fit
in individual spots and this seemed like a nifty solution.
VardaValar1: New article: Ori
VardaValar1: Spawned during
researching a longer article
VardaValar1: Any other Web news?
VardaValar1: Oh, and Gilraen has
been helping locate bad links while I'm rebuilding the
Encyc : )
VardaValar1: Gaming News:
VardaValar1: Eonwe has some when he
returns from afk
VardaValar1: Arathorn sent a letter
on Guild Wars:
VardaValar1: Grimbold and I are
going to try out the 'Guild Wars' beta this weekend since my internet
is back. I'm just wondering who else is going to?
VardaValar1: I know Ar-pharazon
brought it up a few times from the meeting transcripts I read, so I
imagine he will, but who else is interested?
VardaValar1: That was the copy/paste
TurgonjustTurgon: have already been
playing with Grimbold and Arathorn
VardaValar1: Thanks, Turgon. How was
GwaihirValar: I believe that was this
weekend... how long is it lasting?
TurgonjustTurgon: until 12 tonight as far
as I know
ArPharazonV: yes, today is the last
VardaValar1: World preview goes
until tonight, aye
GwaihirValar: what style game is it?
I haven't looked much...
TurgonjustTurgon: I'll try to keep the
VardaValar1: Fire when ready : )
TurgonjustTurgon: it's an RPG, MMO
TurgonjustTurgon: the graphics are
TurgonjustTurgon: fabulous even
TurgonjustTurgon: gameplay is nice as
well, it has every aspect a MMO should have
TurgonjustTurgon: friends list, private
messages, party messages, Guilds
GwaihirValar: *sighs* another MMO...
is nobody making any good games anymore...
VardaValar1: We will have Gwaihir
make us a good game!
ArPharazonV: I played for some time
as well, although pc-crashes often got in the way, and I was away a
lot... I never even completed the second 'main quest' :-D
GwaihirValar: I'm nowhere near THAT
point yet I'm afraid ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon: there is even an option
to travel from and to the most important places
TurgonjustTurgon: well, it deviates from
MMO's in certain areas
VardaValar1: So it has a stress
problem? Maybe repairable with more servers?
TurgonjustTurgon: for example, there are
quests and staging areas therefore and at the end of each quest is a
ArPharazonV: no, problems are from
my pc I think
TurgonjustTurgon: I have experienced very
little to no lag
VardaValar1: ouch, Phar
ArPharazonV: they also happen
sometimes with War3 and Dungeon Siege...
TurgonjustTurgon: this is probably
because of the way staging areas and towns are divided up, so not too
many people will be in the same spot
TurgonjustTurgon: although a good effort,
and certainly nice for the laggishness, I think this is one of the
TurgonjustTurgon: it is hampering with
players looking for equipment or crafters
TurgonjustTurgon: one of the other
downsides, and a big one to me, that once a player uses the instant
travel system, that player automatically leaves the group he is in
TurgonjustTurgon: so, if a player would
want to go to a town and learn new spells or buy new things, he'd have
to find a new group again
FallenGlory has entered the room.
Shaggyjoe has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
TurgonjustTurgon: all in all, I think
this is a great game, and worth its while
VardaValar1: Let our new guys know
the game name?
TurgonjustTurgon: oh yes, one final thing
TurgonjustTurgon: the looting system is
the worst thing of all
TurgonjustTurgon: any dropped loot is
reserved for the player who gives the finishing blow
ArPharazonV: really? I was under the
impression they were reserved randomly
GwaihirValar: I can't see that as
being THAT bad...
VardaValar1: Kill stealers will be
Killed on Sight : )
TurgonjustTurgon: nope, that's a pluspoint
GwaihirValar: I mean it negates about
as much abuse as it implements
TurgonjustTurgon: areas with creeps in
them are ALL divided
TurgonjustTurgon: each group has a
VardaValar1: Turgon, when you are
done, Gilraen is next
ArPharazonV: yup, and gold is shared
amongst the party
VardaValar1: Then Eonwe
TurgonjustTurgon: anyways, weighing the
good against the bad, I'd say it breaks even
GwaihirValar: I don't know how much
of a problem MMOs have with invisibility/hiding... BUT I know in some
other games it's easy to hide and wait for items to drop and then take
them before other people can get them....
TurgonjustTurgon: well, in the payable
MMO's (DaoC at least) loot is reserved for the party that makes the kill
TurgonjustTurgon: anyways, I'm finished
on Guild Wars, I'd like to give the gavel to Gilraen :-)
VardaValar1: Gilraen, please go
TurgonjustTurgon: she seems afk at the
TurgonjustTurgon: maybe Gwai can kiss her
from her beauty sleep ;-)
VardaValar1: Gilraen is pulled away
to do a chore for her mother right now
VardaValar1: Eonwe, your turn : )
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: First, I'd like to say
I finished getting together the gaming information and putting together
the State of Valar Gaming
Eonwe Valar: It should be on the
News page very soon
Eonwe Valar: Some numbers I'd like
to point to is that only about 1/3 of our Guild even responded to the
Hopefully if you're here, you were among those who did respond. A quick
look over the roll tells me at least most of you did.
ArPharazonV: that ain't much
Eonwe Valar: If you didn't, get the
info in for the Games Page. It won't affect the report at this point,
but it'll help us know where you game, and hopefully help you find
someone to game with.
Eonwe Valar: Some pages won't have
player listings on the Updated Games page
TurgonjustTurgon: in case Luthien and / or Paladin Took didn't send theirs, I
have met and played with them in TFT
ArPharazonV: yeah, same here... we
encountered them yesterday
Eonwe Valar: D1, Neverwinter Nights,
GwaihirValar: ahh, Luthy's been on
again... good to hear.
Eonwe Valar: and E-mail to the Games
Page counts as a contact with the Guild, btw
TurgonjustTurgon: she goes under the nick
of Tindomerel-V if you happen to come across her
VardaValar1: The State of Valar Gaming Report is now
on the News page under Oct. 29
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Turgon
Eonwe Valar: THanks Varda
VardaValar1: My pleasure
Eonwe Valar: If you see members
around in games, encourage them to e-mail their info to the Games Page
if they haven't, with a CC to Varda just in case.
Eonwe Valar: Second, I have some WC3 branch news.
Eonwe Valar: I've removed from the
branch accounts that are near or over 300 days since last login
Eonwe Valar: these accounts are more
than dead by Blizzard's standard.
VardaValar1: That include WarCraft 3
and The Frozen Thorne both
Eonwe Valar: aye, ROC and TFT both
Eonwe Valar: If you find your
account was among those deleted, you need to get in contact with me or
one of the Shamen to get the tag on a new guild account.
Eonwe Valar: if it wasn't deleted
and you find your account is dead, let me know so it can be removed,
then make a new account and get one of us to tag it.
Eonwe Valar: If your account is more
than 90 days since last login, you may find it dead when you try to
next log in.
Orodreth V: Still trying to work on going somewhere just to keep my
3rd : New WC3 map for halloween. Haven't tried it yet.
ArPharazonV: me neither.. tried
downloading it once, but failed
Eonwe Valar: One more note on 2 : we
have 24 members in the WC3 branch after the account deletions. about
half of those are under the 28 days, so we're ok for now
Eonwe Valar: That'll do it for my
news. Back to you Varda.
VardaValar1: Gilraen is next, still
on Gaming News
DaeTPringl has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Eowyn : )
DaeTPringl: Hail, I am Eowyn.
Though my name is spelled completely wrong at the moment. ;-)
GilraenV: I'm advertising a
forum-based rpg (a la the one on the guild
message board) by the name of the Empire of Arine ( http://www.atalantei.com is the easiest address to give )
Gwaihir will be wincing after reading that as he's heard far too much
about it recently)
GilraenV: It's run by myself and
a friend, and on friday we moved to the new location, so basically
starting up again 2 years after the last story left off. It's set in a
world simailar to mediaeval Earth, but it has magick
GilraenV: and a rather
matriarchal society, courtesy of it's creators being female ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon: not too much like Wheel
of Time, I hope?
GilraenV: Wheel of Time?
Eonwe Valar: Turgon read my mind,..
GwaihirValar: I think that answers
VardaValar1: I had that thought too
TurgonjustTurgon: well, Wheel of time is
centered around inadequacy of men, to put it lightly
Eonwe Valar: aye, putting it quite
lightly, Turgon :}
VardaValar1: Our guild is mostly
guys, so that kind of stinks
GwaihirValar: umm... It's more likely
to be based off of Exiles in that regard than WoT... because I believe
she hasn't read WoT, but I know she has read Exiles :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: I haven't
Eonwe Valar: So how similar is
Exiles to WoT ? give us non-Exiles-but WoT-readers a little idea :}
GwaihirValar: I've never read WoT,
couldn't get past page 15.
TurgonjustTurgon: but if its a
matriarchal society without the WoT thingy about men, it's cool
GwaihirValar: however, I'm not sure
it was based off either ;-)
GwaihirValar: anyways, afk for a
FarmerMaggotV: darn, there goes reality sucking him in again :P
Orodreth V: Reality! Pssh! who needs that?
the majority of deities and rulers are female.
VardaValar1: This is one reality,
right here ;-)
Eonwe Valar: anyway, gl with the RP
Orodreth V: I
but no man-hating. well, one of the characters hates men. but the
society in general doesn't
Orodreth V: I'm in the middle of GMing my own and joing another major
RP, so I'll look into it but I dunno if I can dedicate time to three
so... *shrug* if anyone's interested, wander along and have a gander,
TurgonjustTurgon: I'll check it out when
I have the time, bookmarked for now
VardaValar1: Orodreth, next you'll
have to jump into the Middle-earth one on the Valar forum ;-)
Arwen V1 has left the room.
VardaValar1: And Gilraen, you
mentioned new folk could join in now?
GilraenV: indeed... we're just
starting up again after moving boards
ArPharazonV: yes, I'm kinda stuck at
that one... can't decide whether to continue my sidequest in
letter-form, or in normal form... I'm not sure about what I want to
GilraenV: so ther aren't any
major plots going on yet. of course, new characters are always welcome
VardaValar1: Thank you, O brave rp
creator : )
VardaValar1: Speaking of rp's, the
guild rp in our Forum is in a spot where other folk can join in from
VardaValar1: We need five warriors
to join us there
VardaValar1: Any gender, Gilraen : )
ArPharazonV: anybody who wants to
play my younger brother is welcome as well!
ArPharazonV: he's a key part in my
sidequest, and we could have him join us
VardaValar1: I could use a brother
too : )
FarmerMaggotV: I could give you mine :P
VardaValar1: I'd love to drag in
Merry or Sam, but would be very tickled to take any of you
VardaValar1: Not a bad apple here
VardaValar1: I could have a sister
if the brother is a problem : )
VardaValar1: Turgon has some TFT news
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Turgon. And
he has a web url too
TurgonjustTurgon: ok, as usual, through
Pharazon, I got a new map for TFT
TurgonjustTurgon: the Weakest Link, LotR
TurgonjustTurgon: after playing a couple
times, it became evident it had some errors in answers and questions
TurgonjustTurgon: so after what seemed to
me as a lot of fiddling, I managed to purge the errors from the
TurgonjustTurgon: I also removed some of
the bad language that was intended for people who left before the game
VardaValar1: (It was in there
without Turgon putting it there)
TurgonjustTurgon: I have not yet found a
way to allow multiple answers to a question, but am working on that
ArPharazonV: heh... I just hope you
didn't change too much... some questions were actually correct which
you thought weren't
VardaValar1: Please PM me any
TurgonjustTurgon: also, after testing the
new one, Paladin and Luthien, gave me some pointers on some of the
TurgonjustTurgon: and no, didn't change
anything that I was not sure of being wrong
TurgonjustTurgon: and that's it for the
TurgonjustTurgon: As for the link
TurgonjustTurgon: it's an
TurgonjustTurgon: much like ours, and
just as complete as ours
ArPharazonV: looks... very...
TurgonjustTurgon: which means, a lot of
articles, no where near to completion :-)
ArPharazonV: you sure it wasn't in
the database yet?
VardaValar1: That should be in the
VardaValar1: Encyclopedia of Arda
VardaValar1: Will check
Orodreth V: The Encyclopedia of Arda is great for alternate names and
It is there under "Encyclopedias"
GwaihirValar: btw, the part of
reality that was sucking me in was food... so I can forgive it ;-)
Food is a good reality : )
DaeTPringl: mmm food
FarmerMaggotV: I bring the food back to my reality
what do eagles eat, anyway?
VardaValar1: Good plan, farmer
GwaihirValar: that's what I did...
GwaihirValar: but it still took time
to finish prepping ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon: hmmm... still can't
DaeTPringl: other eagles? j/k
VardaValar1: Snakes, birds, fish,
what they can catch
ArPharazonV: yummy, Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: yes, the rare and
elusive breaded chicken ;-)
Look under Tolkien, Encyclopedias
VardaValar1: Not alphabetical
VardaValar1: Dark Side of Tolkien is
out of place, needs moved. Will do
VardaValar1: no, it is not out of
VardaValar1: Can you see it now?
TurgonjustTurgon: weird.... there doesn't
seem to be a link OR a section called Encyclopedias under Tolkien where
I am browsing....
ArPharazonV: I just found it under
VardaValar1: Our Links section is
under More Links on the index
VardaValar1: The index is to Valar
VardaValar1: More links is to
VardaValar1: Bilbo-(V) says hi, just
came in : )
TurgonjustTurgon: well, I just can't find
another note, Beren's Lorebook is down,
his geocities site has gone untended for too long and has gone into
ArPharazonV: the ninth one
ArPharazonV: yes, I noticed that
this week, I wanted to use it.. don't know what for, but I wanted to
ArPharazonV: and it was gone...
GwaihirValar: hmm... for a while he
had a link to a new site there, I think
GwaihirValar: maybe he moved it
TurgonjustTurgon: nope, checked both
TurgonjustTurgon: both inactive
VardaValar1: Checked. Both links to
Lore Book are down
TurgonjustTurgon: and, yes, I found it
VardaValar1: He is active on the
Forum. We can ask him there
TurgonjustTurgon: no wonder I couldn't
find it before, I am used to using the main page, not the main "main"
ArPharazonV: I found it using the
main page, not the main 'main' page... if we're talking about the same
thing... but still, each his own ways of tracking sections
VardaValar1: The splash page and the
index page both have the Links link, so np
HearNoEvil80 has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: yes, but not used to
that page, was just checking on the splash page or the other one if not
the one meant :-)
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Gil-galad : )
HearNoEvil80: Aiya...sorry I missed
the meeting....too many emergencies going on *sigh* running around
ArPharazonV: I just found it on both
pages... but no problem
TurgonjustTurgon: oh well, good has come
from an already known link tho :-)
VardaValar1: The splash page is the
short one, http://valarguild.org
other one then :-)
VardaValar1: Know that feeling, Hear
ArPharazonV: ah, I found it first on
the 'other' page
TurgonjustTurgon: anyways, I think this
about concludes our little linkage stuff :-)
ArPharazonV: big headline at the
bottom 'more links'
ArPharazonV: well, ok
ArPharazonV: new topic!
VardaValar1: Pardon, many windows
VardaValar1: Turgon, you have a
TurgonjustTurgon: uh... nope...
ArPharazonV: well, Dale has been handled in the
premeeting... so I don't have one either
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: well, maybe one....
VardaValar1: Welcome back
VardaValar1: What one, Turgon?
TurgonjustTurgon: the fate of Hurin and Huor coming to Gondolin
VardaValar1: What about them?
Eonwe Valar: thanks,.. seems I hit
the close button rather than the minimize button
VardaValar1: oopsie : )
ArPharazonV: well, there goes that
VardaValar1: I still have mine
TurgonjustTurgon: well, too long since I
read that part, but for what I can remember, it seems as if their fates
and their families were sealed after coming to and departing Gondolin
VardaValar1: And what question do we
TurgonjustTurgon: whether or not that was
VardaValar1: Could you state the
question in one line?
VardaValar1: I'm getting lost : )
TurgonjustTurgon: excuse me if I am a bit
sketchy, but usually when I have a topic, I have a couple things in my
mind already I want to address, and this one was straight from my
TurgonjustTurgon: ok, here comes:
TurgonjustTurgon: Huor and Hurin were
lost in the wilds after some battle (I think) and they were picked up
by the Eagles and brought to Gondolin
TurgonjustTurgon: when they returned,
they wore the garments of princes
TurgonjustTurgon: and even though they
already were lords among their people, it seems as if their coming to
Gondolin sealed their and their families fates
TurgonjustTurgon: Hurin as Morgoth's most
hated enemy and the doom that befell Turin
VardaValar1: The clothes did give
away the existence of Gondolin, good point
ArPharazonV: well, from what I know,
Hurin also revealed the location of Gondolin to Morgoth... or at least
the general area
VardaValar1: People wondered why
they were in such great shape after being lost in the wilderness
TurgonjustTurgon: and Huor for his son
Tuor, chosen by Ulmo to bring to Turgon his message of Doom
VardaValar1: Aye, Hurin did call out
to the people of Gondolin, giving away the general area
VardaValar1: Took Maelin to make it
ArPharazonV: being descendants from
Hador, they already were heirs to the house of Men, and leadership of
TurgonjustTurgon: but as far as I know,
Hurin was not hated by Morgoth until the Nirnaeth
VardaValar1: *looks around for all
those dropped letters*
VardaValar1: That's when he foiled
TurgonjustTurgon: true, Pharazon, but
that's why I bring this up
VardaValar1: Kept him from taking
TurgonjustTurgon: it seems as if their
fates didn't begin to unfold after their visit to Gondolin
ArPharazonV: I hardly think that
they would have given any less resistance to Morgoth had they not
TurgonjustTurgon: probably not, but that
is not the point
TurgonjustTurgon: the point is their
fates, not their resilience
ArPharazonV: but their fates did
rely on their resilience...
TurgonjustTurgon: only partly
ArPharazonV: their defiance and
resistance of Morgoth made them his enemies, regardless of their
TurgonjustTurgon: but would Tuor have
come to Nevrast seeking for signs of Turgon and thus find the hauberk
left by Turgon on Ulmo's council if it hadn't been for Huors visit?
ArPharazonV: I think that fate had
been decided already, and it was not like Tuor was guided by his father
TurgonjustTurgon: would Morgoth have
noticed the family of Hurin any more than he would have of say, the
people of Brethil if Hurin didn't have knowledge of Gondolin
ArPharazonV: how did Morgoth know
Hurin had knowledge of Gondolin anyway?
TurgonjustTurgon: and a good mind aside
TurgonjustTurgon: he was Vala after all
ArPharazonV: in that case, it could
well be that Morgoth only chose Hurin because he knew he knew the
location of Gondolin
ArPharazonV: and no, that's not a
typo.. I said he knew twice
TurgonjustTurgon: I get the drift :-)
VardaValar1: (I sent Beren a PM in
the Forum about the Lore Book)
ArPharazonV: oh, btw, Varda...
ArPharazonV: how many PM can you
have in storage?
TurgonjustTurgon: dunno, I got over 40
VardaValar1: Don't know. Turgon or
Eonwe, do you know?
ArPharazonV: oh, good... I had 8,
and was worried if I could still receive any
VardaValar1: I currently have 40
TurgonjustTurgon: I can check the
proboards main page for exact numbers if you like
VardaValar1: That would be helpful
ArPharazonV: seeing as the War3
forum and WoW forum have a maximum storage of 5, I was worried about
reaching the maximum...
TurgonjustTurgon: 46 messages at this
GwaihirValar: I think the one other
forum I'm a member of has a peak of 50(but I could be wrong)
ArPharazonV: but if you guys have
40+, I won't have to worry for a long time... that's a relief
VardaValar1: To PM someone, you can
click on his name and it takes you to his profile, and that gives a
spot at the bottom to PM from
VardaValar1: If he has no posts, you
can go to the Members page and do the same thing by clicking his name.
Even if he does have posts. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I've got over 100 PMs
so I wouldn't worry too much :}
TurgonjustTurgon: well, it could very
well be that admins have a higher number of max PM's, but not sure on
that, and I would doubt it
VardaValar1: I delete some of mine
now and then
ArPharazonV: if you could check out
the exact number for regular members, I would be very happy
VardaValar1: If you can check,
Turgon, that would help us
Eonwe Valar: I don't think there's a
way to do it through the board
VardaValar1: I don't see a place t o
check on the board, but maybe the site for making boards
GwaihirValar: I don't know that
admins WOULD have a max...
VardaValar1: I think we ended our
previous Tolkien discussion :-)
GwaihirValar: I mean on the more
active boards the admins get as many pms as Varda gets e-mails ;-)
VardaValar1: I already use three
accounts to handle emails : )
and check all three just about daily
FarmerMaggotV: I hate email
Gmail is good about putting the spam out of the main mail. Very nice
ArPharazonV: sorry to bring it up,
we could resume the Tolkien topic afterwards
VardaValar1: A new one from LotR
would be good : )
VardaValar1: Everyone has read it or
they would not be in the guild
ArPharazonV: or the hobbit? you
know, the one I reread most recently? ;-)
VardaValar1: That would be good too
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
ArPharazonV: oh, right.. concerning
the hobbit (pun not intended).. I have a question about Mirkwood
Shaggyjoe has left the room.
FarmerMaggotV: Sorry to intrude, but this was funny: AMAZING BUT TRUE ... If all the salmon caught in Canada
in one year were laid end to end across the Sahara Desert, the smell
would be absolutely awful.
OK, write a one-page dissertation on the nature of the Palantiri. Oh
wait, that sounds likea homework assignment,.. ;}
VardaValar1: They would dry out : )
VardaValar1: Just one page?
ArPharazonV: well, here it goes,
Eonwe Valar: 10 page? 100 page? :}
ArPharazonV: I was wondering about Thranduil's halls
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: where exactly are they
located? what direction is the gate heading into?
ArPharazonV: if they, like I seem to
interpret from the hobbit, are lying eastwards, I think I made my posts
in the RP wrong...
VardaValar1: I've just been handed a
bucket of links to work on
TurgonjustTurgon: ok, just posted a
request for the number on the proboards site, should have an answer soon
Eonwe Valar: there may have been
multiple gates, as would be typical of a castle
VardaValar1: They should have had
the info available. Maybe they will after the request. Thanks for your
ArPharazonV: no, I think there were
only 2 gates in the halls, at least at the time of the hobbit
ArPharazonV: 1 was the main gate
ArPharazonV: the other was the
ArPharazonV: both lay to the east...
ArPharazonV: I think, after reading
VardaValar1: A giant gate often has
a small gate next to it, for minor errands. But saw none mentioned in
ArPharazonV: yes, it is stated in
the hobbit that the only exit besides the main gate was the
ArPharazonV: and believe me, poor
old bilbo had plenty of time to check it all out :-)
Eonwe Valar: What does Tolkien know
about Mirkwood's gate? :}
ArPharazonV: still, I think after
this, that the gate used in the RP lay to the east, which could work
less easily with my posts...
VardaValar1: Just sort of squinch
your map around on the table...
ArPharazonV: lol... perhaps it can
Eonwe Valar: the main gate appears
to be facing west
Eonwe Valar: since we're coming from
the west, we're ok
ArPharazonV: I thought it was facing
sauronjag has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: I'm using Atlas of
VardaValar1: Don't think when you
can look it up :-)
VardaValar1: Those books are not
always accurate, beware
ArPharazonV: looking it up now, in
barrels out of bound
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Since we're on the
Forest Path, and that leads to Thranduil's halls, it's likely that will
lead to the main gate
ArPharazonV: wait a sec...
ArPharazonV: perhaps I'm confusing
the main gate with the main mouth...
Eonwe Valar: but it's a Revised
Edition,.. It's gotta be perfect :}
ArPharazonV: but anyway, if I look
at the map, the halls seem to be on the eastside of the mountainrange
ArPharazonV: but... if you guys are
convinced the gates are on the westside, I'm happy...
ArPharazonV: problem solved for the
VardaValar1: I haven't looked it up.
Repairing the buckets of links folks are telling me about : )
ArPharazonV: now I still have to
come up with a new post for the rp... I can't really decide how to
continue my little quest... but I think it's about time
VardaValar1: Heard about the latest
anniversary edition coming out of LotR? It's supposed to have even more
corrections from Chris, near perfect
ArPharazonV: did you, in the rp,
actually get my letter yet?
ArPharazonV: hey, sounds cool
ArPharazonV: anniversary... 50
years, I would guess?
VardaValar1: I'll bet it will be
hardback and expensive. Hope they have a cheap version
Eonwe Valar: Hmm guess I better get
a new copy of the current Hardback version soon then
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: As for Calion's letter,
I was problably going to recieve it in my next post
Eonwe Valar: still don
Eonwe Valar: 't know what Auros is
going to do about it yet, though
ArPharazonV: I advice you to join me
on my quest! It'll give you something to do while you're in town, and I
won't be so lonely ;-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: if not, I'll try to
finish it as quickly as possible.. I don't want to be left behind
ArPharazonV: shall I spill the
details here? I'm tired of keeping it bottled up
VardaValar1: You could put it in the
ArPharazonV: yeah, allright...
Eonwe Valar: If Auros has to go
chasing you down, he's not going to be pleased :}
VardaValar1: We are trying to do
something in town
VardaValar1: We are trying to report
to Thranduil, collect more warriors, and head for Erebor
ArPharazonV: I'll go on my mission
alone, then... and lose the letter-style
ArPharazonV: but I'm afraid that
post will have to come tomorrow... I'm going to bed now
VardaValar1: You need to stick with
the group when possible
VardaValar1: Sleep is good :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Try to stay with us
TurgonjustTurgon: now is it Varda?
VardaValar1: in the rp
VardaValar1: Irmo is a nice guy, yes
TurgonjustTurgon: sleep is a big waste of
time in my eyes
ArPharazonV: I cannot walk away from
this... I initiated a new part for me, which has to be fulfilled.. I
don't want to lose my brother :-)
VardaValar1: Irmo, don't listen!
TurgonjustTurgon: but then again, can be
VardaValar1: Phar, does not have to
VardaValar1: Can catch up with us
ArPharazonV: yes, allright... and
you can 'fill me in' when I catch up... of course I'll continue reading
VardaValar1: Your story arc needs to
have to do with the main story
VardaValar1: Try to work it in
VardaValar1: Maybe your arc will
find something Auros really must know
TurgonjustTurgon: already gave him that
ArPharazonV: yes, Turgon did that...
and I gladly accepted it
VardaValar1: Cool then
VardaValar1: I'm looking forward to
ArPharazonV: it'll bear relation to
our quest, as I said in the letter ;-)
ArPharazonV: btw, turg... your
question has been answered... partially
VardaValar1: Sleep well : )
ArPharazonV: in the forum
Eonwe Valar: How are we going to do
the meetings with Thranduil? no real order's been set. Should
emissaries go first, or Thranduil's own people?
ArPharazonV: the main proboards
support forum, that is
VardaValar1: I had originally
intended all of us going together
VardaValar1: but then you mentioned
VardaValar1: Figured if it was
something secret, us extras could be dismissed from the throne room
Eonwe Valar: I would think he'd meet
us each alone
VardaValar1: Ok, but why?
ArPharazonV: oh well, luckily I
won't have to be troubled by that problem ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon: perhaps to hear out
things that others are not supposed to know?
VardaValar1: That's when the rest of
us could be dismissed
VardaValar1: Keep from repeating the
same info, or maybe he'd like that to confirm each report
VardaValar1: ok. I would expect
Auros to go first then
Eonwe Valar: That would be like "Ok
I've seen you, now stand in the hall while I talk with him, then I'll
talk with you."
VardaValar1: A messenger could be
sent for each
ArPharazonV: I wonder what you
people are going to say about the wolf ;-)
VardaValar1: I was going to escort
the group to Thranduil
Eonwe Valar: It just seemed more
likely a king would see each person separately, especially those
TurgonjustTurgon: or the beard-dude :-)
VardaValar1: So do we all hang out
in a lobby or wait for a messenger?
TurgonjustTurgon: remember, Estarion
still has no clue what a dwarf is :-)
Eonwe Valar: to me anyway,.. maybe
my "kingly" thoughts are unconventional :}
VardaValar1: Kings tend to have a
lot of people in the throne room at the same time
VardaValar1: but would dismiss them
when something secret comes up
VardaValar1: Kind of a line
VardaValar1: courtiers and guards
VardaValar1: It's a general court
ArPharazonV: well, Namarie... I'm
saving the transcript now
VardaValar1: Most of us don't have
anything secret, just telling about the baddies showing up in Mirkwood
VardaValar1: Thanks Phar
Eonwe Valar: sleep well Phar
ArPharazonV: thank you
VardaValar1: I've been to quite a
VardaValar1: The sheer number of
people a king has to see means the place tends to be pretty full
ArPharazonV: here it comes!
ArPharazonV: check the mail!
VardaValar1: It made it to the
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar
Orodreth V: I'd send my transcript..but I'm too lazy to edit out the
until next time, everybody!
VardaValar1: I do each one separately
TurgonjustTurgon: remind me to add the
attachment when I send the transcript this time :-)
VardaValar1: That would help, Turgon
ArPharazonV: did I add the
TurgonjustTurgon: I'm not going yet
TurgonjustTurgon: too much to do in my
online game yet
VardaValar1: yes, I see a paper clip
ArPharazonV: ah, ok
ArPharazonV has left the room.
Orodreth V: I should go through my laptop and see how many meetings
I've got logged on there.
Orodreth V: If I ever recover my old comp's hard drive... o.0
might give you more gaming space : )
Orodreth V: Ext files, psh.
Orodreth V: *text
Orodreth V: 1.17 mb on my laptop.
anyway, so shall we be meeting Thranduil together?
Orodreth V: But that's only about every other metting feb - august.
Orodreth V: Well, there is all the aftermeeting stuff.
Thought you wanted it separate. Now I'm confused
VardaValar1: If meeting together,
I'll come to get you guys
VardaValar1: Are you and Haran ready?
VardaValar1: You were talking
GilraenV: Namarie all
VardaValar1: Namarie, Gilraen!
Eonwe Valar: that's what I'm trying
to get decided :}
GilraenV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Didn't want to break up
that talk. Was important to the story, it seemed
VardaValar1: When we get to the Ring
part, we can have everybody cleared from the room but Thranduil, you,
and I guess Haran
VardaValar1: The chat needs to
decide if you and Haran stay together in the room
Eonwe Valar: Haran and I were
talking, aye. Seems that was over. At most was going to pin Estarion's
story down and then get angry when Auros recieved Calion's letter.
VardaValar1: Ah, so you can put in
that you receive Calion's letter
VardaValar1: Then I can come and get
you two and Estarion?
VardaValar1: I'm presuming you guys
had a chance to clean up like Fainan did
Eonwe Valar: Aye, was deciding if
I'm going to charge after him or not. But if Thranduil is ready, that
could dissaude me from leaving.
Orodreth V: Feb 22 to Aug 22 on my laptop, but that's not every
Well, not really :}
VardaValar1: Want to charge after
him? I can come looking for you after you charge
VardaValar1: Oro, do you have some
not on the News?
VardaValar1: If so, could you email
them to me?
Orodreth V: Uhh.
Orodreth V: I might.
Just when you get the chance, Oro
VardaValar1: It's very likely
Orodreth V: I can look now, nothing better to do.
Please send them separately :-)
VardaValar1: *feels email bomb
Orodreth V: You know of any off the top of your head that you don't
A quick run through of the News should show
VardaValar1: We missed one fairly
VardaValar1: We have our candy ready
by the door and Bilbo is set as first distributor
FarmerMaggotV: wow, it helps sooo much to have the ethernet cable
plugged in to get on the net :P
hehe - I'll bet!
FarmerMaggotV: I coulda sworn I plugged that in earlier
Reasons to never swear ;-)
Orodreth V: Blah.
FarmerMaggotV: I probably got down there, plugged in one comp, and
forgot what I was doing and got up :P
Orodreth V: Trick or treating around here is stupid.
Have any of us here played the playstation game 'Azure
Orodreth V: We have people from miles away driving around to get
Get a ton of candy here if you do
Orodreth V: We gave up a few years ago.
There is no trick or treating around here, amazingly
VardaValar1: Mostly just people who
live around here or know us, which is plenty
GwaihirValar: other than myself, of
Orodreth V: Sept 5th.
Orodreth V: Looking now.
Gwaihir's played Azure Dreams :}
VardaValar1: People are more
cautious now about trick or treating
TurgonjustTurgon: no trick or treating
VardaValar1: Thanks Oro
Orodreth V: Nope, lost net before then.
We are in a quiet neighborhood
VardaValar1: Thanks for checking
VardaValar1: Eonwe sent me one a
couple of times but it didn't make it and then his hard drive died
VardaValar1: Morgoth undoubtedly
TurgonjustTurgon: although nov. 11 we
have "Sint Maarten" (or st. Martinus) which goes for just about the
same as Halloween, except for the dressing up part and instead with
FarmerMaggotV: anyone here up for some BZFlag?
Orodreth V: April 4th looks like no transcript but everyone moved to
b.net, I was prably a sleep, lemme see.
That would be why. We had one AIM meeting that lagged frightfully. The
rest have been good
FarmerMaggotV: oh yeah, I remember that
FarmerMaggotV: was about a 3-10 sec lag
Right, more for some of us
Orodreth V: I had none, if I remember correctly.
Orodreth V: My log goes from 15:24 to 16:01, so it's just talking
about leaving, no actual meeting.
I've gtg all, good ol' homework. Have happy halloween.
FallenGlory has left the room.
VardaValar1: Okie dokie, not worth
VardaValar1: Belated namarie
VardaValar1: Looks as if names in
the Encyc that were moved around all changed links automatically. Ick
Orodreth V: Ok, got nothing more on ym laptop.
Orodreth V: I've got nealry a year's worth on my old comp, so I'll
Orodreth V: ..if it's ever fixed.
Eonwe Valar: can't believe it's only
VardaValar1: I hope it gets fixed
VardaValar1: It's not to our bodies
Orodreth V: I wasted my extra hour spaming up people and doing
research for my essay.
FarmerMaggotV: ok, over here I guess :P
Orodreth V: Instead of sleeping, like my body needs.
Research for essay sounds good
FarmerMaggotV: I hate doing essays :/
Gives you a chance to comment
VardaValar1: Could do an article on
FarmerMaggotV: well, school assigned essays.... I like to make it
short, simple, and to the point :P
FarmerMaggotV: I've been meaning to do that too heh
I can't see why JRRT called him Maggot
VardaValar1: unless to help make him
sound villainous for Frodo
VardaValar1: : )
FarmerMaggotV: depending on his pronunciation
Farmer is a nifty hobbit, interesting character
VardaValar1: guess so
VardaValar1: Might look up the
pronunciation guide in the books and see
VardaValar1: Maybe I should put it
online, not very long
FarmerMaggotV: that stuff copyrighted?
VardaValar1: I would have to be
FarmerMaggotV: I don't see why that stuff isn't like ROMS
It's so short, probably be ok
FarmerMaggotV: best to not go making assumptions -- but this does
pose an interesting question
Long blocks of text are what are considered not to be fair use
VardaValar1: I can just leave it
FarmerMaggotV: you make the text into an image, it is no longer the
It can no longer give royalties to the author
VardaValar1: Fan fic can be a
problem for living authors too
VardaValar1: The fans gripe that the
author's new book stole things from their fan fic
FarmerMaggotV: similiar things in the
developer communities (espicially with Apple)
Or the author drops a story because a faintly similar treatment is
VardaValar1: and that destroys a
much better thing we could have read that would have been canon.
FarmerMaggotV: A shareware developer has some cool ideas, Apple
integrated a few, the shareware dev complains.....
FarmerMaggotV: but usually, the shareware is still superior
But ideas can come logically from the same place separately
Happens all the time with inventions
FarmerMaggotV: the telephone
Ouch if the shareware is superior
GwaihirValar: well... isn't that the
way programming is... one person comes up with it, posts it, everyone
else takes what snippets they want, and uses them how they will...
that's the way I've always seen it
VardaValar1: Tons of them. Reason
Nobel prize sometimes is shared
FarmerMaggotV: well, it serves a particular purpose usually and does
FarmerMaggotV: yeah, or even just UI concepts
When a person is making his living at something, it begins to matter
FarmerMaggotV: how long do copyrights last?
FarmerMaggotV: on literature
Well, the main thing is, that's why it's shareware... it's NOT being
used for profit
VardaValar1: Why should we assume
creators do not deserve paid for efforts and discourage them?
GwaihirValar: it's just something the
person came up with in their spare time that can make life easier...
Eonwe Valar: Shareware actually can
include a fee
Eonwe Valar: as I recall
VardaValar1: Lifetime of author plus
FarmerMaggotV: shareware is usually feeware
Shareware can include a fee
GwaihirValar: I've never seen
shareware that included a fee...
VardaValar1: it can be donations
FarmerMaggotV: at least, as far as I've seen
or it's a trial/free version that can be upgraded with a fee to a
VardaValar1: Donations are for
FarmerMaggotV: that's usually reffered to as donationware; and free
freeware is typically free, hence the name :}
VardaValar1: aye : )
FarmerMaggotV: and there's nagware, which is a form of donationware
Freeware tends to be a hook or to be used on a resume
Eonwe Valar: I've see nshareware
that asks for a "donation"
nagware : ) Good way to put it
VardaValar1: If you like this,
please show your appreciation with a donation
VardaValar1: Not a bad idea
FarmerMaggotV: freeware can also be the typical hacker type "I
needed this and created it. Your mileage may vary"
I had a zip program that did that,... couldn't use it after a while,..
VardaValar1: Or like Cute, that adds
ads after a while if not paid after a certain number of uses.
Eonwe Valar: did the "send so much
to register" thing
FarmerMaggotV: ah, nagware usually just as a message when it starts
or pops up a message after so long, but it doesn't force you to donate
yeah, think it was Cute, so I take back the zip file thing :}
VardaValar1: afk for short time,
must grab food and return
Eonwe Valar: Cuteftp did it to me,
reason I went to WSFTP
FarmerMaggotV: hm.. I like CoreFTP
FarmerMaggotV: never used WSFTP though
FarmerMaggotV: Eonwe: You have any exp. w/ Unix or Linux?
FarmerMaggotV: ah heh
and only because I have to use it for accessing my cs stuff
FarmerMaggotV: I'm switching my server over to OpenBSD on an older
machine..... should be faster cuz I'll be using an IDE HDD instead of a
USB (1) one and it'll be a dedicated server
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
Orodreth V: My problem is that Ihave no mone whatsoever.
FarmerMaggotV: I have no money either :P
Orodreth V: And can't get a decent job for two years.
FarmerMaggotV: school's been giving their old hardware away
FarmerMaggotV: and I bought an old comp from a friend for 25 bucks
Orodreth V: Can you please will me your possessions? I'll strangle
you quickly, honestly. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: must be really realyl
old or you must have a really really nice friend :}
FarmerMaggotV: 10 years old
Orodreth V: This comp isn't worth $50.
FarmerMaggotV: but it was a top of the line for the time: 200MHz
64 megs RAM?
FarmerMaggotV: nah, came with 16
FarmerMaggotV: but I upped it to 64
FarmerMaggotV: friend had extra RAM
FarmerMaggotV: (another friend)
EDO or Sync D?
FarmerMaggotV: no clue :P
Bah, lightning and thunder, may be going soon
FarmerMaggotV: if you add up all the MHz in the room it's about
FarmerMaggotV: any winperson here know what app to use to make
floppies of .fs files and .dsk files?
How about drag and drop?
VardaValar1: or copy/paste?
FarmerMaggotV: I don't think that'd work -> .fs files are just
'images' of a floppy
could try it. Can
VardaValar1: not hurt
FarmerMaggotV: hm... didn't work
Orodreth V: I looked at the valar rp awhile ago..didn't get into it
Not enough action? :}
VardaValar1: How do you mean, didn't
get into it?
Orodreth V: Just didn't make the time to decide on my char and get
his bio and so forth up.
Orodreth V: I might if I don't join Gilaern's RP.
ah, don't have to be in any rush
VardaValar1: You can be in both
Orodreth V: But 3 major rps is more then enough for me, so it's one
or the other.
We don't post often
VardaValar1: okie dokie
VardaValar1: We're kind of leisurely
but we keep it going
Orodreth V: Running my own RP which will have 9 other people, in two
semi-dead RPs, in another one with something like 12 people at last
Orodreth V: And I swear I do do (most) of my homework.
Very good. Please do your homework
VardaValar1: Don't get grounded, and
learn everything you can : )
VardaValar1: Our rp is not a
requirement or to stress anyone, just for pleasure
Orodreth V: ...which is why I'm not going to overextend myself to 30
rps like I did back in 7th grade.
Good : )
VardaValar1: 30 is way too much
FarmerMaggotV: heh, I try to keep me life as stress and simple free
VardaValar1: "as possible"
I admit to complicating mine a bit more than necessary : )
Orodreth V: A little exaggeration there, but if I remeber correctly,
I was in 3 games/gaming commuities, 3 diplomacy games, and 4 or 5 rps.
Orodreth V: ..course, I didn't have school that year, so..
FarmerMaggotV: I'm active in 3 forums (well, it's declining a lot,
Adium is nearing completion and I'm moving away from REALbasic), and I
lurk in a forum and a wiki
Orodreth V: I used to spam up 4 or 5 fourms.
Orodreth V: But that was after 7th.
FarmerMaggotV: ew a spammer....
Orodreth V: Well.
Orodreth V: I made quality posts.
Orodreth V: But I had nothing to do so I posted everywhere.
FarmerMaggotV: hm..... you should google for "posting and you" it's
a flash movie heh
Orodreth V: Yea.
Orodreth V: I love that thing. :-P
Orodreth V: "With these things in mind, Bobby will have a fun time
posting at the forums, won't you Bobby?"
FarmerMaggotV: you ever see milk & cereal.swf?
Wow things went quiet in here aweful fast
FarmerMaggotV: oh yah
tornado coming through? eye of a hurricane?
Eonwe Valar: WoW open beta start? :}
FarmerMaggotV: heh, wouldn't know
Working on links on page for Men
VardaValar1: Gilraen said a lot were
bad. Found a few
Orodreth V: Man.
You guys know that characters without a link don't have an article,
just getting a mention
Orodreth V: Seems like old times, I'm chatting on this comp,playing
SC on my laptop right next to me.
Orodreth V: sinleplayer, but still
FarmerMaggotV: that is the life
This will be old times later : )
FarmerMaggotV: I remember mad all day long runs of SC and D1
Way to go, Orodreth
Eonwe Valar: hmm speaking of old
times,.. I need to install my LotR volume one from Inerplay on my
computer some time :}
Eonwe Valar: *Interplay
VardaValar1: Eonwe, when do you like
to play D2X M-e mod?
Eonwe Valar: If I ever manage to
find the time again :}
FarmerMaggotV: anyone here play BZFlag?
I was trying to get the Me mod dl to work. Gamespy kept saying I was
logged on but not logged on
VardaValar1: Will try again
FarmerMaggotV: I hate download sites that make you register
Natalya aka Eowyn on the VK board has a site you can get it from as well
FarmerMaggotV: I've gone to p2p and piracy networks to download
demos before :P
V&K used to have dl's avalable on their site, nice and fast
DaeTPringl: Namarie all. I'm tired
of sitting on the computer.
Well, beside the computer.
Eonwe Valar: Namarie Eowyn :}
VardaValar1: I will try again on
Gamespy after all that trouble and then try Nat
Orodreth V: Namarie.
DaeTPringl: Namarie. :-)
DaeTPringl has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: a link should be on the
Orodreth V: I have my laptop on my leg right now.
aye, I have seen it
Orodreth V: I feel so geeky.
I begin to suspect Interplay might be dead
FarmerMaggotV: I have a rolling chair (from school), and 2 comps
from school...... and one of my parent's comps...... and yea.... I feel
so cheap :P
Orodreth V: Interplay..? Wern't they bought out?
Eonwe Valar: I know Interplay and
Black Isles were merged or something a while back
Eonwe Valar: but I haven't visited
their site in a long long time,.. went looking for it a couple of weeks
ago and ran into problems
ThainPaladinTook has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Paladin
VardaValar1: Happy Halloween
ThainPaladinTook: you to
Welcome to the After-meeting
VardaValar1: People who just didn't
feel like leaving : )
Eonwe Valar: hmm seems they let
their web site die
ThainPaladinTook: what site?
died on 9-27-04, so I guess Interplay really is gone,..
a shame,.. they put out 2 decent versions of LotR games, even if they
didn't finish the trilogy, and despite the additions they made,.. I
enjoyed playing both,.. the SNES game was mostly fun because I could
kill Nazgul :}
ThainPaladinTook: hmmm, never played the snes version
ThainPaladinTook: brb, dog is running around for some reason...
It's fairly short if you've got maps,.. almost too long if you try to
find you way out of some areas without maps :}
Orodreth V: Whoohoo.
but once you hit Moria it's easy to max your characters,.. :}
Orodreth V: I beat the final terran bw
Orodreth V: And killed every zerg anything.
Orodreth V: Took me 3 hours.
Orodreth V: But whoohooo.
Congrats! : )
Eonwe Valar: then you can swipe
their bits of password, put it with an earlier area bit of the
password, and kill nazgul if you're careful :}
ThainPaladinTook: congrats, sc is the greatest :-)
Orodreth V: My way of playing BW campaings is generaly this:
Orodreth V: The AI is stupid, turtle and nuke or tank/air if terran,
turtle and zeal/goon/whatever if toss and turtle and anything if zerg.
Orodreth V: Never failed me yet.
Orodreth V: I have yet to lose a mission.
Orodreth V: Wait.
Orodreth V: The psi disrupter one for terrain.
Orodreth V: *terran
Orodreth V: where Duran kills Stukov
I puah for carriers in the SP missions for Protoss,.. wins every time :}
Eonwe Valar: *puah=push
ThainPaladinTook: dang, I am way to offensive for all that, I just keep
attacking them till they die
FarmerMaggotV: I usually cheated ;-)
ThainPaladinTook: ahhhhh, the blasphemy!
VardaValar1: Eowyn and Sauron need
this comp so they can play a LAN game of Civilization together
VardaValar1: You guys have fun : )
ThainPaladinTook: i love those games
Eonwe Valar: hf :}
VardaValar1: Civilization: Call to
Eonwe Valar: take care :}
VardaValar1 has left the room.
FarmerMaggotV: bah, too late
HearNoEvil80 has left the room.
Orodreth V: Ahh, love Kerry giving Mengsk a tounge lashing in the
early Zerg missions.
ThainPaladinTook: kerry, lol!
Orodreth V: rofl
Orodreth V: I just realized that.
Orodreth V: Haha.
Orodreth V: Subliminal message, there :-P
ThainPaladinTook: good thing election is almost over, it's so annoying
ThainPaladinTook: get like 10 phone messages a day telling me who to vote
I assume Kerry = Kerrigan?
FarmerMaggotV: yeah, I hope bush is going to be planning his exit
Eonwe Valar: I don't :}
ThainPaladinTook: I don't really have a problem with him
FarmerMaggotV: I do: Patriot Act, Guatanamo Bay, Iraq
Orodreth V: ...stupid bug in Zer 2.
Orodreth V: *Zerg 2
ThainPaladinTook: don't start that, you could do that back and forth
I desperately hope Bush doesn't get in power *sighs*
ThainPaladinTook: people wont stop doing it around me to!
FarmerMaggotV: yeah, I've got things to do -> no time for politics
I'm terrified of him having 4 more years...
Eonwe Valar: I don't want Kerry in
power,..I'm not interested in America losing its sovereignity,.. and we
probably ought to leave it there
GwaihirValar: it's such a horrible
coincidence... Bush is running in one of the VERY few countries in the
world he has a chance to get elected in
ThainPaladinTook: you guys do realize that the president is a very small
part of the government right? He can't do anything he wants to like
most people assume
I realize that, but Bush's foreign policy is gonna cause more wars...
and more wars... and more wars
ThainPaladinTook: people don't vote on stuff like senators and such which
are just as important
FarmerMaggotV: due to the sheer ignorance of americans?
the guy is the biggest warmonger I've heard of since Gengis Khan... lol
I remember a guy named Adolf Hilter,.. heard of him?
FarmerMaggotV: Bush doesn't come close to Hitler's brains :P
nobody wanted to do anything about him, just kept feeding him countries
until he actually came after them,.. by then most of Europe was under
GwaihirValar: I remember him too...
but he wasn't interested in random wars. He had a purpose... I don't
AGREE with his purpose, but Hitler didn't care about the wars, he had a
plan... the wars were an unnecessary part
Eonwe Valar: I'm not talking about
GwaihirValar has left the room.
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
GwaihirValar: Bah, stupid remote fell
Erratic Behavior Worries White House Aides
Eonwe Valar: wb
Orodreth V: when I think of the election, I think of AvP:
PATRIOT Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Orodreth V: "Whoever wins, we lose."
ThainPaladinTook: SirG3, dont post links cause both sides can post stuff
FarmerMaggotV: yea, but just posting 3 :P
ThainPaladinTook: it just gets annoying after a while
My link is just a petition
GwaihirValar: from Canadians to
Orodreth V: Man.
No offense, but I don't think any country should be asking or telling
another country who they should vote for
Orodreth V: Zerg two is the hardest mission yet.
Orodreth V: Which is sad.
Eonwe, when the other country is a superpower
GwaihirValar: I think every country
has a right to have a hand in it. Because frankly, who you elect is
going to have a huge effect on the rest of the world because you ARE
one of the world's superpowers.
ThainPaladinTook: wait a sec..
FarmerMaggotV: I disagree
and electing someone with as poor of a foreign policy as Bush....
GwaihirValar: is just going to cause
Eonwe Valar: We are still a
soveriegn nation. We have the right to appoint our leaders with no
interfeence from the rest of the world,.. the same right we grant
Canada, Britain, France,...
FarmerMaggotV: still, Bush is the leader of the US not the
if you look at it... 95+% of the world is HORRIBLY against Bush getting
GwaihirValar: you've gotta admit,
that's a STUNNING ratio there
ThainPaladinTook: or not...
Bush is already in power
GwaihirValar: getting back
GwaihirValar: I mean
FarmerMaggotV: Annon is the leader of the world more or less, and he
is chosen by many countries eh?
if it were like 60/40... that's no big deal... but 95%?
ThainPaladinTook: it's not 95%....
Annon is the secreatary of the UN,..
GwaihirValar: it's about there
GwaihirValar: if you go by countries
ThainPaladinTook: you have no way to prove it..
there were surveys taken in something like 200 countries
ThainPaladinTook: no way they asked a couple billion people
Bush would have won in I think... 8 of them
GwaihirValar: somewhere around there
FarmerMaggotV: You go survey every single american, and tell me if
he'd get elected ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I hope my rights never
depend on the opinions of the rest of the world
ThainPaladinTook: they already do that sirg3, and it's currently a very
lol, Eonwe, I'm not saying we should be able to vote... but in a
superpower, we at least have a right to express an opinion
Orodreth V: I still think AvP > you all.
ThainPaladinTook: lol oro
you're not in this superpower :}
FarmerMaggotV: anyways, enough politics
No, but we are right next door
GwaihirValar: and we are allied
GwaihirValar: and we're a part of the
world that Bush is gonna screw up
FarmerMaggotV: we should sooo invade canada
Orodreth V: Beer!
Eonwe Valar: sure, you can express
an opinion :} I think it's a bit distasteful to tell us who we should
vote for though
ThainPaladinTook: bush can't screw up anything by himself, i already said
I'm merely saying I'm TERRIFIED of Bush getting in power
FarmerMaggotV: anyways, enough politics, eh?
back in power*
Eonwe Valar: And I'm worried about
Kerry getting into power
ThainPaladinTook: the senate, the congress, the supreme court, etc form
Orodreth V: Kerry and his libers in congress can, though! ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I'm not interested in
becoming the world's,.. hmm no nice world to put here,..
Orodreth V: The supreme court is going whacko.
as far as I've seen and heard from talking to Americans voting on both
sides, Kerry doesn't seem that bad
FarmerMaggotV: hm... anyways -> I've got work to do, cya
ThainPaladinTook: i don't know how they can be voted in for life oro
FarmerMaggotV: don't kill each other :P
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: I've seen Kerry talk
and I've heard his responses on questions,.. I don't like alot of his
Orodreth V: If I were 18, I wouldn't vote as a matter of principal,
but kinda hope Kerry'd win.
however... Bush is an utter idiot, he's a warmonger, he's cocky, and he
has no understanding of CONSEQUENCES... from all I've heard about him,
his life has been one big ride to him... he does what he wants, and
then moves on...
Eonwe Valar: I want my national
leaders more worried about what I'm going to say than what some other
coutry is going to say.
GwaihirValar: no real consequences
ThainPaladinTook: one of the main reasons I like bush is that sept 11th
happened and the country didn't fall to pieces
Well, you get alot of our liberal media into Canada as well
Orodreth V: One of the main reasons AvP still > you all is that
both are liars.
Eonwe, I'm talking about from what I've heard from informed,
GwaihirValar: I don't pay attention
to the Media
ThainPaladinTook: true oro, that say whatever to get voted half the time
ThainPaladinTook: dang politicians
Orodreth V: Ever heard the phrase "Empty as a campaign promise"?
Eonwe Valar: I know of informed,
intellectual Americans who will tell you the opposite, Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: I've talked to people
voting for Bush too
GwaihirValar: what they say hints at
the same things...
GwaihirValar: the consequences thing
ThainPaladinTook: you should say 'congress is a warmonger' not bush is
cause he can't declare war without there approval
no, because Bush is the one putting forward the ideas
GwaihirValar: he's the one promoting
GwaihirValar: and he's got some
AMAZING liars working for him
Eonwe Valar: so does Kerry
ThainPaladinTook: no, when sept 11th happened they country cried for war
and congress passed it because the whole of the country wanted it
oh, I know that Eonwe, all politicians do
GwaihirValar: I'm referring to the
war on Iraq, Paladin
Eonwe Valar: Looking at the issues,
I do not like the stance Kerry is taking on many of them.
ThainPaladinTook: it's an extension of it though
the war on terror was fine, I agree with going after Bin Ladin
GwaihirValar: no it's not
GwaihirValar: every tie they thought
was there has been PROVEN to have been wrong
Orodreth V: If I recall correctly, didn't Bush try to pull a Vietnam?
ThainPaladinTook: going after dictators isn't bad in my book
yes it is
ThainPaladinTook: we are part of the world and I am all for trying to make
because you're now crippling the people of Iraq
Eonwe Valar: So, after 13 or so UN
resolutions, it was not ok to have Saddam expect consequences?
Orodreth V: I blame you all for making Z2 the only mission I've had
to restart twice on.
ThainPaladinTook: haha oro
Eonwe, Bush did NOT have the UN's right of way
GwaihirValar: to go to war in Irawq
Eonwe Valar: I didn't say he did
Orodreth V: ALL YOUR FAULT, YOU HEAR ME?
he went to war without approval
GwaihirValar: yet DIDN'T get punished
Eonwe Valar: There
GwaihirValar: the guy should've been
punished for war crimes...
Eonwe Valar: 's also allegations
that France took money from Saddam
Orodreth V: US ain't part of the WC trial board.
and isn't it interesting that France happened to be against the war on
ThainPaladinTook: we are part of the world, we should help countries that
need freedom and we have the strength and many countries can't do it
themeselves without help
I really don't care about France... they aren't a superpower... they
don't have a leader who is going to cause world war three...
Eonwe Valar: The cold truth is the
UN never would've done anything to Saddam except pass another 7200
GwaihirValar: Paladin... you should
help countries that ASK for freedom
GwaihirValar: the country obviously
didn't want your help
Orodreth V: Still blaming you.
if more than half of it is resisting
ThainPaladinTook: no you shouldn't they don't have freedom of speech,l
they can't ask for it!
and fighting back
GwaihirValar: they've stated their
GwaihirValar: by fighting back
GwaihirValar: People usually don't
Eonwe Valar: those are terrorists
GwaihirValar: not all of them
ThainPaladinTook: militants have, the same people that attacked are country
just because they're fighting the US
Orodreth V: All-your-fault.
they HAVE to be terrorists
GwaihirValar: that's what is so
hilarious about that...
Eonwe Valar: not necessarily Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: they can't be people
who just don't like the fact thaty you've INVADED THEIR COUNTRY
Eonwe Valar: ok, terrorists and
former Saddam loyalists
GwaihirValar: they immediately become
Orodreth V: Propaganda, Gwaihir, give the US some credit.
lol I know Orod
Orodreth V: Every country who goes to war gos against opresors,
rebels, or terriorists.
Orodreth V: Face it, and get over it.
I don't watch CNN so I don't see much propoganda
GwaihirValar: if someone invaded your
country and took out your leader, would you fight back Eonwe... if you
didn't like the leader?
ThainPaladinTook: dictatorship is not the people's country it is the
governments country and they do what they want, not what the people want
my leader isn't oppressing me and killing off my fellow countrymen
GwaihirValar: even if he were
Eonwe Valar: it's my liberal
activist judges who are doing that
Orodreth V: Benevolant dicatorship is the best form of government, if
anyone was interested.
If I lived in Iraq, I would've fought bac
ThainPaladinTook: not it's not
in my country we are free to argue with our political leaders, and free
to replace them if we don't agree with their positions
Orodreth V: What's better?
no you're not Eonwe, look at how Bush got elected in the first place
ThainPaladinTook: freedom is better then dictatorship any day
he rigged the election
Eonwe Valar: no he didn't Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: yes he did
it was really clever how it all worked out too...
ThainPaladinTook: neither of you can prove that point
Orodreth V: Benevolant dicatorship, f00.
After the election they went back, and there's nonpartisan groups who
do say Bush won the election
GwaihirValar: funny Eonwe, how the
recounts were in his relative's state...
Eonwe Valar: the only ones I still
hear harping on that are the Kerry camp guys
ThainPaladinTook: a good dictator oro....
Orodreth V: Benvolant.
Orodreth V: Not just good.
Eonwe, I'm not for Kerry
GwaihirValar: I'm against Bush
GwaihirValar: don't get those confused
GwaihirValar: I think Kerry would
make a decent leader, yes, but he's not the ideal choice
GwaihirValar: he's just the only
choice in such a pitiful two-party system
Orodreth V: Halleughia, Nader 4 evr!
well, I won't argue on the two-party system
ThainPaladinTook: if someone bombed canada and killed a couple thousand
people you might feel different
I would NEVER support Bush
ThainPaladinTook: if we just stop it will happen again and again
Kerry doesn't plan to stop fighting terror
Orodreth V: ..which we deserve, in my humber opinion, but now I'll
get blasted for hating my own country or whatnot
he just has a different plan about how to fight it. Not invade EVERY
nation in the Middle East
GwaihirValar: for one
GwaihirValar: also, did you ever
think about why most of the terrorist attacks were on the US>
Eonwe Valar: Kerry plans to ask the
world's permission before he blows his nose
Orodreth V: Gwaihir: Bush won't invade Israel
the only time other countries REALLY got attacked... were when they
GwaihirValar: maybe there's something
Eonwe Valar: everyone hates the US
because the US stands by Israel
Eonwe Valar: or that's part of it
ThainPaladinTook: we stand up and fight evil while other countries back
Orodreth V: Oh @$#^, I opened my mouth.
no... everyone hates the US because the US is a nosey little superpower
that thinks it can right the world
GwaihirValar: and that it has the
right to remake the world
Eonwe Valar: No, that's not us
GwaihirValar: in it's image
GwaihirValar: yes, that's the way the
rest of the world sees the US Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: I'm not saying we don't
try to spread democracy
GwaihirValar: you can't see it
GwaihirValar: because you're IN the US
Orodreth V: GAH
but that's how your country comes over
Orodreth V: AGAIN
ThainPaladinTook: if someone is getting beat on the side of the road and
can't defend themselves and you have the strength to save them, should
you save them or stand by and watch?
Orodreth V: I AM GOING TO CUT YOU BOTH FOR THIS! >.<
depends, what if they don't want your help
Eonwe Valar: Orodreth, no caps please
ThainPaladinTook: ha >oro
ThainPaladinTook: that's not even a sane question
Orodreth V: /me twitches
Gwaihir, I agree on this much : if a nation doesn't want our help, we
shouldn't give it
GwaihirValar: it's perfectly sane
GwaihirValar: the person may truly
Eonwe Valar: I think we do some
stupid stuff : like giving money we'll never get back to nations that
need help despite the fact they hate us
ThainPaladinTook: they are gonna ask for your help if they getting the
#%357 beat out of them
Orodreth V: I've heard Mengsk give his speach 4 times now...
no, I'm not saying whether they ASK for hel
GwaihirValar: but what if you GIVE
the help and find out they didn't want it
GwaihirValar: you've just interfered
where you weren't wanted
GwaihirValar: that's what you have to
GwaihirValar: people don't always
WANT the bully to help them
ThainPaladinTook: so I guess we should get rid of all the cops cause
that's just what they do...
that's the problem
GwaihirValar: no... the cops are
enforcing law... which is needed in a society
Eonwe Valar: if these people see us
as the bully, it's usually because their dictator has spent so much
time telling them how evil we are
ThainPaladinTook: they are doing just what I said
GwaihirValar: the entire world sees
you as a bully
Orodreth V: 'cept for Tony Blair
not the entire world
GwaihirValar: most of it
Eonwe Valar: just alot of guys in
ThainPaladinTook: if they did they would come kill us
a lot of the politicians don't
GwaihirValar: but most of the
ThainPaladinTook: cause they world>US
Orodreth V: Polticians go with the flow, and are wortles liars.
Ignore them at all costs. - some president who I can't remember FDR?
many nations don't have free press,.. they see what their government
wants them to see,..
GwaihirValar: what about those
nations like Canada nad England
ThainPaladinTook: aka nazi part 'jews are bad' and they believe it
well, I hear you guys are pretty liberal up there
GwaihirValar: most of us 'free
nations' think of the US as an arrogant, nosey superpower
GwaihirValar: and, except some of the
politicians(blair), we really don't care much for the US as a country
GwaihirValar: I have a LOT of friends
in the country, but I really dislike the country as a whole
ThainPaladinTook: for what reasons?
the way the US acts.
GwaihirValar: as I said
Eonwe Valar: from what I hear, most
"free nations" are pretty liberal too,..
GwaihirValar: liberal by what
ThainPaladinTook: you don't believe in helping your fellow man?
perhaps the US is just so far on the opposite side of the cale
ThainPaladinTook: we are trying to do good, cause if someone doesn't evil
Orodreth V: http://www.politicalcompass.org
GwaihirValar: you are trying to do
YOUR definition of good
ThainPaladinTook: not mine
as a country
ThainPaladinTook: killing people is bad
the COUNTRY'S definiition of Good
GwaihirValar: that's the problem
GwaihirValar: 'treat others as you
would have them treat you' is wrong
GwaihirValar: dead wrong
GwaihirValar: it needs to be changed
Eonwe Valar: so,treat them before
they treat you?
ThainPaladinTook: helping your neighbor is good
'treat others as they would have you treat them;
GwaihirValar: is the proper law
ThainPaladinTook: if your neighbor is being hurt you go help them
Orodreth V: That's premption, Eonwe, you should be for that.
there's a flaw in that, because some would have you treat them like
gods, and have you die
GwaihirValar: for an example of why
the so-called 'Golden Rule' is crap... think about people interested in
GwaihirValar: they ENJOY pain
Eonwe Valar: Why should I be for
GwaihirValar: does that mean that,
because they want you to hurt them
GwaihirValar: they should hurt you?
Orodreth V: Bush == preemption.
I support doing what you say you're going to do
Orodreth V: Selectivly, but still.
Eonwe, did you read my example? that is where the 'golden rule' will
GwaihirValar: if it's followed
Eonwe Valar: If you say " you do
this, or that will heppen" then when they don't do "this," you better
dang well do "that"
GwaihirValar: Just becuase I want to
be treated a certain way
ThainPaladinTook: 'help your neighbor' read that rule
doesn't mean I have the right to treat others that way
GwaihirValar: because they may not
want to be treated that way
Eonwe Valar: love your neighbor as
you love yourself is a better rule
GwaihirValar: no it's not... because
that's forcing you to love someone. What if it's someone who is truly
GwaihirValar: then you still have to
ThainPaladinTook: that's right
tha'ts not right
Eonwe Valar: It's called
ThainPaladinTook: you should love everyone and try and help them
which isn't good, because if you show love to people who abuse you...
they'll think they're doing a good thing.
Eonwe Valar: I thought tolerance was
what it was all about
Orodreth V: See the warning signs and back out now, Gwaihir.
No, Gwaihir, that's a corruption of the rule
GwaihirValar: Orodreth, I really
don't care... I know I don't have a chance against religious American
GwaihirValar: no it's not Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: You can love someone
and not agree with them, nor support their actions
GwaihirValar: how can you love
someone you don't like.
GwaihirValar: that's lying to yourslf.
Eonwe Valar: I love all of you, but
I certainly don't agree with you at all times, nor do I agree with
everything you do.
Orodreth V: Can't say I didn't warn you.
I'm referring to someone TRULY detestable
GwaihirValar: you'd still love them?
ThainPaladinTook: i don't hate you cause I might not agree with what you do
so you loved Saddam?
GwaihirValar: you loved Hitler?
Orodreth V: What's that thing in MP2, the arugment th cleaners have?
ThainPaladinTook: You should love everyone, no matter what they do
I've always believed love is a special emotion.
GwaihirValar: How can it be special
GwaihirValar: if it's given to
GwaihirValar: it becomes worthless
Eonwe Valar: that is what
unconditional love is about, and sometimes love punishes
Orodreth V: "I understand it, I don't condone it." "It's the same
thing." "No it's not." "Yes it is!" "I understand you're an idiot, I
don't condone it."
Orodreth V: Sorry for helping them, but I love that.
There are different types of love Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: if everyone loves
everyone, love is worthless.
GwaihirValar: I know that
Eonwe Valar: then you should know
that fallacies of your remark
GwaihirValar: but still, if you love
everyone, your love is completely without meaning
Eonwe Valar: no it is notr
ThainPaladinTook: I believe in life after death and we will allow be
judged on how we acted and people like hitler got what they had coming,
it's not my place to hate him
yes it is...
Eonwe Valar: it means I will help
everyone to the best of my ability
GwaihirValar: that's not love, that's
being a decent person
Eonwe Valar: it means that I will
not play favorites
GwaihirValar: I'll help someone I
dislike if they desire it...
GwaihirValar: but I won't LOVE them
for no reason.
Eonwe Valar: no Gwaihir, being a
decent person is throwing someone a quarter for a phone call
Orodreth V: Paladin, quit cheating by using the supernatural.
ThainPaladinTook: i am not cheating
that's doing the least possible
Eonwe Valar: love is giving a
homeless man a blanket in winter
ThainPaladinTook: are beliefs form who we are
yes you are Paladin, because you're bring intangible, unproveable
beliefs into it
GwaihirValar: no, Eonwe, that's
Orodreth V: I was kidding.
ThainPaladinTook: read what I just posted
ThainPaladinTook: your beliefs make you
Orodreth V: I knew you'd flare up and that Gwaihir would agree.
then why do so many "decent" humans not do this simple act of decency?
ThainPaladinTook: that's why we have discussions like this
they're not truly decent
Eonwe Valar: why do so many decent
humans treat other people like junk?
GwaihirValar: people aren't all
decent, that's the problem.
Eonwe Valar: why do so many decent
humans mistreat their employees in multiple ways?
Orodreth V: But I'm waiting for this thing to get going so I can get
my marshmellows out.
they AREN'T decent Eonwe
GwaihirValar: that's just it
GwaihirValar: if they do those things
GwaihirValar: they aren't decent
Eonwe Valar: but they are, if they
giuve a guy a blanket
GwaihirValar: no, anyone can do a
Eonwe Valar: because that's not
love, that's decent
GwaihirValar: a kind act
GwaihirValar: it's being decent and
GwaihirValar: it's not love
Eonwe Valar: anyone can, but not
GwaihirValar: everyone can be decent,
everyone can be kind
GwaihirValar: doesn't mean they
ThainPaladinTook: gwa are you married/dating at all?
GwaihirValar: to a member of this
Eonwe Valar: afk for a sec, don't
let the conversation die
ThainPaladinTook: if that person commited a crime and then told you about
it and never got caught. You would still love them though you may not
like what they did right?
Orodreth V: ...lights are off
Orodreth V: no response
Orodreth V: and some idiot is standing at the door, knocking and
ringing the bell
*sighs* Paladin... that's different. They've earned my love
GwaihirValar: the simple act of being
GwaihirValar: isn't enough to earn
ThainPaladinTook: It shouldn't be diff though
Orodreth V: sonofa..
yes it should
GwaihirValar: love is a SPECIAL
GwaihirValar: should be earned
GwaihirValar: not just given
ThainPaladinTook: the world would be at peace always if everyone loved
but it wouldn't be any fun
ThainPaladinTook: we wouldn't need armies anymore
we wouldn't have computers without conflict
ThainPaladinTook: i love all my friends and we have plenty of fun
GwaihirValar: hell, we wouldn't have
METAL without conflict
ThainPaladinTook: we would, just at diff times
all of the world's greatest inventions have been spurred by conflict.
Eonwe Valar: Gwaihir, a decnet at is
one that does the bare minimum. An act of love is giving it your all.
GwaihirValar: no, Paladin
Eonwe Valar: *decent
GwaihirValar: they'd have no REASON
to develop these things
ThainPaladinTook: yes, invention would still go on
so they wouldn't
ThainPaladinTook: metal makes like easier
Paladin, if everyone had always loved
ThainPaladinTook: we would still make lives easier and gather knowledge
none of our inventions would have come to pass...
GwaihirValar: because they were all
spurred out of a need to get an advantage
GwaihirValar: our species THRIVES on
GwaihirValar: without it, we have
nothing to motivate us.
ThainPaladinTook: if you love someone you would want there lives to be
better and people would make things to do just that
Orodreth V: Made me lose a hunter kiler, you all did.
ThainPaladinTook: ha at oro
Paladin... really, think about what you're saying...
ThainPaladinTook: i am
how? all you're doing is spouting religion...
ThainPaladinTook: if you could make your special person's life better
Orodreth V: Die @ Paladin
yes, because love IS special to me
ThainPaladinTook: people would still think and create things
if I loved EVERYONE
GwaihirValar: love would lose meaning
GwaihirValar: because it would lose
it's special aspect
because there wouldn't be anything special about it
ThainPaladinTook: i love my friends and my parents
so do I, but that's because they're specia
ThainPaladinTook: should I put them in groups?
Love isn't just for ONE person, but it's not for EVERYONE
GwaihirValar: if you love everyone
GwaihirValar: there becomes nothing
special about it
ThainPaladinTook: hate is why war and killing happens, cause people don't
Paladin, that's not true
GwaihirValar: GREED is why war happens
GwaihirValar: not hate
GwaihirValar: most wars in history
haven't been over true hatred
GwaihirValar: they've been over greed
ThainPaladinTook: no, when sept 11th the american people had hate and
wanted to go to war, so we did
that was one war
ThainPaladinTook: ww1 started with hate
GwaihirValar: is the cause of most
GwaihirValar: if you want to go there
ThainPaladinTook: one man killed another and war happened
Orodreth V: ww1 started with supidity
Orodreth V: not hate
you can name TWO wars in recent history... if you go back past the 20th
Orodreth V: People often cofuse the two.
EVERY war was over territory, resources, or religious differences.
GwaihirValar: wars were NOT over
hate, except in the past 100 years
Orodreth V: Which were?
ThainPaladinTook: revolution, we hated the british and what they did
Orodreth V: Religion can == hate
Orodreth V: That's territory/recources
ThainPaladinTook: that's freedom
Orodreth V: British wqnted ours, we wanted our own.
yes Paladin, it was over territory
GwaihirValar: they wanted your
ThainPaladinTook: no we already had it
ThainPaladinTook: we lived on it
and you fought back
ThainPaladinTook: we wanted them to stop being oppressors
it wasn't hatred at all
GwaihirValar: they were trying to get
GwaihirValar: they didn't hate you
GwaihirValar: they wanted their
ThainPaladinTook: no the british 'owned' the territory and we lived on it
Orodreth V: Gwaihir, the Crusades were hatred int he form of religion.
First, gunpowder was created by the Chinese, not for war, but for
entertainment. It was corrupted into a weapon
GwaihirValar: you may have fought
BACK because of hatred, but the war didn't start over territory
GwaihirValar: yes, that was one
GwaihirValar: Eonwe, that may or may
not be true
GwaihirValar: we know it was created
by the Chinese
GwaihirValar: in a time when they
were relatively peaceful
GwaihirValar: but we don't know it
wasn't meant as a weapon.
Eonwe Valar: Second, it's people who
hate other people having what they want or hate another's perspective
that has caused wars.
GwaihirValar: that's not hate
ThainPaladinTook: they tried to tax us and tell us what we could and
couldn't do so we fought back
ThainPaladinTook: we hated them
they don't HATE other people having what they want
GwaihirValar: they ENVY people having
what they want
GwaihirValar: know the difference
Eonwe Valar: fireworks doesn't sound
like a weapon to me
GwaihirValar: and there is one
TurgonjustTurgon: hey Paladin :-)
Eonwe, they were at peace at the time... so naturally they'd put what
they'd invented to another use
Eonwe Valar: careful, Gwaihir,
you're about to sounds sure of yourself :}
ThainPaladinTook: that's what i was trying to say the whole time!
and that may lead to arrogance :}
TurgonjustTurgon: I just won 2 FFA's with
GwaihirValar: I'm arrogant sometimes,
I admit it
against friends to tell you
ThainPaladinTook: orc are so hard, humans just crush them normally
in what gmae?
TurgonjustTurgon: no humans in the games
first was 2 NE, 1 orc and me
GwaihirValar: if that's wc3... I
don't know how you cna say that
GwaihirValar: I've always done best
with NE and Orc... agianst all races
TurgonjustTurgon: 2nd was 2 UD 1 ne and me
TurgonjustTurgon: NE and human my best
ThainPaladinTook: i used to love orc but they are to weak vs humans
I've never seen that...
TurgonjustTurgon: I can't build fast with
Orodreth V: Ahahahha
Orodreth V: In Z2
Orodreth V: I kept the SCV from being evaced
Orodreth V: By
ThainPaladinTook: bad aa and bad anti casters seriously hurts them
ThainPaladinTook: i wish they would help them in that area
Orodreth V: Loading him into an overlord
GwaihirValar: I don't think they have
ThainPaladinTook: anti air
berserkers are quite powerful if used right
GwaihirValar: especially of combined
with healing wards
Eonwe Valar: Native Americans had
the wheel, but it was considered a toy, not a useful item for work
ThainPaladinTook: healing wards are dead in a sec, anything big weakness
Orodreth V: ...and I now have wasted so muvh time, I'm mined dry
Orodreth V: haha
not if you put your healing wards in the middle of your units
TurgonjustTurgon: and bats rock
GwaihirValar: Paaldin... healing
wards are easy to keep alive... you put them back so the enemies have
to chase them
GwaihirValar: and then you centralize
ThainPaladinTook: i control my units firing i will kill a war in a sec
besides, I had 2 heroes alone whacking the living kazooie out of 5 wyrms
GwaihirValar: they hunt the first ones
GwaihirValar: wasting time
GwaihirValar: losing air
GwaihirValar: then the second one
they have to find
ThainPaladinTook: one unit, one unit, dead ward
and if you cover it... it's even harder
GwaihirValar: uhh Paladin... if you
place the ward at the back and micro your units
ThainPaladinTook: takes one hit
it's VERY easy to stop that 'one unit
GwaihirValar: especially if you have
a way of slowing
ThainPaladinTook: like sorc...
like an orb of frost
GwaihirValar: I mean of slowing the
ThainPaladinTook: they humans vs orc is a must
that's most definitely true
GwaihirValar: get two tauren casters
GwaihirValar: spam disenchant
ThainPaladinTook: till you lose your mana
the second all your guys are slowed, deslow them
ThainPaladinTook: am is to strong
the sorceresses will lose mana too, and the sorceresses will still die
GwaihirValar: and if you have a good
hero, you can pick off the AM easily
GwaihirValar: ams are so frail
ThainPaladinTook: never had a problem with them
not only that, but the taurens will bash through your defenses and kill
off your sorcs
GwaihirValar: taurens SLAUGHTER sorcs
GwaihirValar: especially if you keep
one haste scroll
GwaihirValar: the second they slow
TurgonjustTurgon: unless they poly
GwaihirValar: you activate it
GwaihirValar: that's what disenchant
ThainPaladinTook: knights can hold taurens no problem..
TurgonjustTurgon: not really lol
GwaihirValar: PAladin, you walk BY
GwaihirValar: if you have to
GwaihirValar: if they have that many
GwaihirValar: they can't have many
ThainPaladinTook: slow will stop that
not with a hastye scroll
ThainPaladinTook: slow is to deadly
not with healing wards in the middle of your taurens and bloodlusting
GwaihirValar: you've never seen
someone use that item, haven't you?
GwaihirValar: have you*
GwaihirValar: scroll of haste
GwaihirValar: adn bloodlust
TurgonjustTurgon: plus whirlwind
ThainPaladinTook: bloodlust stolen
= fast movement
GwaihirValar: so now they have tons
GwaihirValar: tons of breakers
GwaihirValar: AND tons of sorcs
ThainPaladinTook: human casters are to good
ThainPaladinTook: and they are cheap
I want to see this magical 150 unit human army Paladin
TurgonjustTurgon: well, to effectively
cast slow, you have to have at least 6 sorces
GwaihirValar: to effectively
slow/polymorph, you need at least 12
TurgonjustTurgon: to effectively steal,
at least a dozen breakers
ThainPaladinTook: how much suppy is that out of 100?
that's already 24
GwaihirValar: +10 peasants at least
TurgonjustTurgon: plus at LEAST 10
TurgonjustTurgon: plus 5 for the expand
ThainPaladinTook: i meant with the 6 you first said..
probably 15 if you have an expansion which you'll need
GwaihirValar: are you JUST slowing
Paladin, or slow/morph?
TurgonjustTurgon: still 27
ThainPaladinTook: dont need morph
ThainPaladinTook: vs orcs
okay, then 27
TurgonjustTurgon: breakers are 3?
GwaihirValar: you need at least a
dozen breakers to efectively steal
ThainPaladinTook: if you go for tauren you will have 2 or 3 at most
so 36 more
ThainPaladinTook: human casters are tier 2
2 or 3?
GwaihirValar: breakers are 3
ThainPaladinTook: tauren and bl adn tier 3
I had 8 of em
GwaihirValar: Paladin, knights are
TurgonjustTurgon: knights tier 3
GwaihirValar: if you want to do that
GwaihirValar: knights are 3
GwaihirValar: otherwise you ain't
TurgonjustTurgon: knights are 4 I think
ThainPaladinTook: you can go rifles before you ever get tauren
breakers will die like NOTHING
ThainPaladinTook: they work just fine
with breakers as your only front?
GwaihirValar: you're dead
ThainPaladinTook: tier 2 human is really strong
it will work in 1v1 Paladin
TurgonjustTurgon: not in FFA
ThainPaladinTook: rifles are to strong cause of healers
grunts/disenchanters with a good hero
TurgonjustTurgon: because within 5 mins,
I am up to tier 3
ThainPaladinTook: rifles/priests/sorcs is to strong
no Paladin, they're not...
TurgonjustTurgon: and within 10 mins, I
have a full tauren army
ThainPaladinTook: and can kill a teching orc
mind you, I don't 1v1
GwaihirValar: I find 1v1 boring
GwaihirValar: way boring
ThainPaladinTook: i find orc 1v1 my easiest
ThainPaladinTook: people dont learn how to counter
not because of ease...
GwaihirValar: it's just not fun...
ThainPaladinTook: the easiest counter is there tier 2 but orcs wont build
ThainPaladinTook: catapults kill the caster, but they never build them
btw, Paladin, if a good orc player uses tier two right, they can purge
you to hell... slowing you a lot more than slow
GwaihirValar: ever will
ThainPaladinTook: am keeps mana way to high
breakers can't steal purge lol
GwaihirValar: I don't think so anyways
GwaihirValar: 'I've never seen it done
ThainPaladinTook: it keeps you from getting bl
who do they switch it to?
ThainPaladinTook: if your slowed without bl your not gonna be doing
are you keeping your rifles in close range?
ThainPaladinTook: they dont
ThainPaladinTook: pults and grunts harrass can kill humans
ThainPaladinTook: rifles take my hits, priests heal them
ThainPaladinTook: politics to wc3, lol
I know I can't win
GwaihirValar: Religious Americans
GwaihirValar: are the most
unreasonable people in the world
GwaihirValar: I hate to say it
GwaihirValar: other than terrorists,
ThainPaladinTook: we have every religon in the world here though, just
and they're all WAY overconfident because they're Americans too
GwaihirValar: American + blind
TurgonjustTurgon: you know Gwai, not to
be too forward
GwaihirValar: I'm sorry, I'm tired
and a VERY worried about Tuesday... so I'm being blunt...
TurgonjustTurgon: but love-blind,
non-religious Canadian can be the most unreasonable people in the world
ThainPaladinTook: i know aeithests (Sp?),mormons,christians,muslims as
friends so I know we have them all
Gwairhir, that's not very open-minded of you
TurgonjustTurgon: you know what?
GwaihirValar: Eonwe, I've never
managed to convince a strongly religion American of anything... I've
been able to for most other people...
GwaihirValar: and I've backed down
when beaten before Turg...
TurgonjustTurgon: let's agree we disagree
on the subject, and leave it at that, shall we?
TurgonjustTurgon: ya you have Gwai, I was
just kidding :-)
Orodreth V: Turgon: You can't steal my spot.
ThainPaladinTook: we have being doing this the last 40 mins turg :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: your spot...?
Orodreth V: Turgon: Gwaihir and I signed an exclusive contract to
agree to disagree.
so sorry if I'm not being terribly open-minded on that, but
open-mindedness goes away after a while of complete and consistent
Eonwe Valar: it shouldn't,
especially when you promote an idela of relativism
GwaihirValar: It does, enough failure
will discourage anyone.
Eonwe Valar: their opinions should
be as good as yours
ThainPaladinTook has left the room.
GwaihirValar: Eonwe, there are
situations where it shows VERY obvious as being the 'hive-mind'
mentality of Americans...
GwaihirValar: they can't see it, but
I've talked to other people outside the US, and it's ofter fairly
GwaihirValar: I've met a few people
within the US who can see it too... but very few
ThainPaladinTook has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: or maybe because you're
outside the US, you can't see how different we are in here
I can see how different you are
GwaihirValar: but there are certain
ThainPaladinTook: dang comp
and you know, it's not just religious US people who are hard to
convince of anything
GwaihirValar: oh, I know
Eonwe Valar: try convincing athiests
of anything absolute
GwaihirValar: but ALL religious
Americans are unwavering in their convictions
GwaihirValar: they will never be
convinced of anything
ThainPaladinTook: my atheist friend is really hard to convince of
they only thing athiests are absolutely sure on is there absolutely
cannot be a god :}
ThainPaladinTook: chat lag!
Atheism is a religion in my opinion
Eonwe Valar: but that's an
absolute,.. kinda contradictory :}
Eonwe Valar: ah! we agree then
Orodreth V: ALL religious people are unwavering
A religion is merely a set of beliefs
ThainPaladinTook: not all
Everyone is 'religious'
GwaihirValar: Atheism is not an
ThainPaladinTook: i knew a teacher in school who was open to everything
and I should change that...
ThainPaladinTook: and just change randomly
uh, it has a standard set of beliefs, Gwaihir
ThainPaladinTook: gotta get food! brb
uhh... I'm Atheist to a large extent
Orodreth V: I'd like to note that I am right and you all are wrong.
there's are just different sects and denominations
GwaihirValar: and I can tell you that
I have seen no 'standard set of beliefs'
Eonwe Valar: the one towering
belief: there is no god
GwaihirValar: Atheism is just the
belief that there is no deity
GwaihirValar: that's the only
'mandate' of Atheism
Orodreth V: ...don't laugh, that's your argument too.
there isn't anything else requirement
Eonwe Valar: 2: Since there is no
god, then we must have been created by evolution
GwaihirValar: no Eonwe
GwaihirValar: I'm atheist
Orodreth V: No.
3.) since we are here, we must have evolved
GwaihirValar: and I don't believe in
GwaihirValar: I believe it has it's
GwaihirValar: and that species DO
GwaihirValar: because we've proven
Orodreth V: no need to belive in evolution to be a athiest
but I don't believe that everything came from evolution
GwaihirValar: yet I am Atheist
Orodreth V: Or vise-versa.
Well then Gwaihir, congratulations, you are the first atheist I've met
that doens't believe in evolution
Orodreth V: Neh.
then how do you explain existence?
GwaihirValar: I believe in Evolution,
I just don't believe in Evolutionism. lol
GwaihirValar: I have a LONG
explanation for that that I've never managed to explain online...
GwaihirValar: and I've only managed
to explain it to two people in person
Eonwe Valar: e-mail it to me sometime
GwaihirValar: as I said, it's very
tough to explain
GwaihirValar: because I use a lot of
Orodreth V: But what it biols down to, is that we're cool and you're
not, so shut up. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Was I one of them? I
rmeember having this conversation with someone in the GUild before
whose name started with a G
Orodreth V: *boils
and a lot of really erratic sutff to it
GwaihirValar: I've only explained it
to two people in person
GwaihirValar: never online
Eonwe Valar: ok nm then
GwaihirValar: I've tried to a few
GwaihirValar: but I can't find the
Eonwe Valar: the other G would be
Gwindor,.. now there's a guy you can't convince of anything :}
GwaihirValar: god I'm so glad he
GwaihirValar: he was pushing me
almost too far...
Orodreth V: Paladin: Popcorn?
probably best not to bring up the past :}
GwaihirValar: I'm over it, but man
that guy had some grudge for some reason against me
GwaihirValar: and I think his overall
goal was to get me to quit by any means necessary...
Orodreth V: ...
Orodreth V: I just tried to use the mouse on my laptop
Eonwe Valar: You two seemed to have
so much in common,.. :} hard to belive you couldn't stand eachother :}
Orodreth V: to click on a button on this screen
Orodreth V: Gwai: shush
the one guy in this guild I've truly never been able to stand...
Orodreth V: Eeeek.
Anyway, I'd love to hear how you explain existence without God or
Orodreth V: almost out of mins.
hehe... effectively, WE created it. But that doesn't explain much...
Eonwe Valar: especially since
evolution doesn't answer all that much in the first place :}
GwaihirValar: evolution is missing a
lot... transition stages, for one
GwaihirValar: they've never found one
Eonwe Valar: ah, that line of
thought's been done before,.. can't remember by what religion
GwaihirValar: My way's a little bit
GwaihirValar: I've heard a lot of
explanations involving a central consciousness and such that created
Eonwe Valar: Gwaihir, even Evolution
wasn't different :} You know Greek Philosophers had the same idea?
GwaihirValar: hehe, of course...
GwaihirValar: every idea's been done
Orodreth V: Eonwe: Can you name some in particular?
ok, so you're isn't new, even if we don't know the originator :}
Orodreth V: I'm going greek philosophy second semester.
one sec, I get out my reference material
GwaihirValar: prolly not new... but
ya never know
GwaihirValar: it might be new and I'm
just insane ;-)
GwaihirValar: I've got Greek, Roman,
and Greek & Roman mythology courses next semester
Orodreth V: Gwaihir: No one's contesting that. ;-)
GwaihirValar: man that's gonna get
Orodreth V: I'm doing greek myths this semester.
but it'll be fun :-)
Orodreth V: Almost donw with the Odyssey.
Orodreth V: Next year: Roman version of above.
Orodreth V: Year after that: Ren/Classical of the same.
Orodreth V: Then modern for 12th.
I have Greek Mythology, Roman Mythology, Greek and Roman Mythology...
my 3 courses next semester
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, it would take me a
while to find it, but his name starts with an "A"
Orodreth V: Well, I'll see if we're doing him...thanks.
so that eliminates... 1% of Greek philosophers? ;-)
GwaihirValar: so many of them start
Eonwe Valar: lol
Eonwe Valar: you'll find philosophy
interesting,.. keep a guarded mind and watch out for people trying to
brainwash you though :}
GwaihirValar: I've had more brainwash
attempts than I can count ;-)
GwaihirValar: my theories develop as
I hear things that make sense to me...
Orodreth V: Grr.
Orodreth V: Can't find my syllabus.
might be Anaximander, which makes him Milesian
GwaihirValar: wow, those names must
be hard to remember...
Orodreth V: I know we're doing Archimedes, Plato, Socrates, Elucid,
the guy who had the med oath named after him..
and I hope I don't have to do any oral work
Orodreth V: And one or two more.
Orodreth V: Greek myth is easy: When in doubt, Zeus was the father.
an oral presentation in Greek-things would be easy...
GwaihirValar: *drips sarcasm*
Eonwe Valar: there's 3 of them,
Anaximander, Animinies, and another (not the name another, but I can't
remember the name :})
GwaihirValar: ya, Anaximander,
Eonwe Valar: *Anaxinimes
Eonwe Valar: *Anaximenes
Eonwe Valar: Thales
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, those are the
Milesians, from a little greek colonoy called Ionia, which is today
GwaihirValar: I see
Eonwe Valar: They'll very likely be
in your intro class
GwaihirValar: half-afk... playing wc3
Orodreth V: "Don't let the fact that I am three hundred and
sixty-eight years older then you, dully our impression of me, young
Terran. I can still, how do you Terrans say it... Throw it down with
the best of them."
no fair, get back here and chat! :}
Orodreth V: "I stand corrected."
What's that from?
TurgonjustTurgon: StarCraft if I am not
Orodreth V: BW Zerg 3.
I am correct :-)
Orodreth V: replaying the campaign.
'd be Fenix?
Orodreth V: Yessir.
Orodreth V: Gonna go infest some co-mand centerz.
I forgot I had my WC3 account up
Orodreth V: If you infest all 5, you get the 10K automaticaly.
I noticed Faramir is on, but it won't let me whisper him,..
Eonwe Valar: Could you give it a try
Gwaihir? Work in that he needs to e-mail his Gaming info to me? :}
Orodreth V: This is what the Valar Guild is all about.
ThainPaladinTook: playing sc and chatting at the same time?
Orodreth V: 5 minutes ago you were at his throat..
Orodreth V: ..that too.
ThainPaladinTook: and then blaming us for your failure
Orodreth V: Yes.
Orodreth V: It's your fault.
Eonwe Valar: We have strong beliefs.
We realize what we're getting into, and we agree not to let it get in
the way of our friendship :}
Eonwe Valar: As long as it's civil,
even when we begin to argue our points very strongly, I have no
problems whatsoever with debate :}
Orodreth V: All. Your. Fault.
Orodreth V: Well, Gwaihir's and Eonwe's, mostly.
Orodreth V: But you helped.
ThainPaladinTook: no I beat that campaign, so it must be yours
You're welcome :}
Orodreth V: So've I.
btw Orodreth, even in jest, watch the threats :}
ThainPaladinTook: to late, I just shipped off a box of zerglings to oro's
Orodreth V: He laughed at me. :-(
Orodreth V: I've got an Archon for a friend.
ThainPaladinTook: doesn't matter, suprisingly the cardboard box didn't
hold and the zerglings are running loose
Orodreth V: "suprisingly"?
ThainPaladinTook: close enough!
ThainPaladinTook: I think I need to go do some gaming
ThainPaladinTook: better shut this thing off so I am lag free :-)
ThainPaladinTook: cya later everyone
Orodreth V: Later.
ThainPaladinTook has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: and then there were 4 :}
Eonwe Valar: Well, 3 since Gwaihir
is gaming :}
Eonwe Valar: and 2 since Orodreth is
Eonwe Valar: and 1 since Turgon is
Eonwe Valar: and zero since I'm
supposed to be programming :}
Orodreth V: I'm gaming SP, so I'm here too.
ok so 2 :}
Eonwe Valar: I can't believe the WC3
group is still at lvl 1 after some 80 odd games
Orodreth V: Heh.
Turgon, Gwaihir, what are your excuses?! :}
Orodreth V: We were at level 2 I thought...?
Orodreth V: I suck, and contributed nothing after the reset.
Orodreth V: That's mine.
I haven't been playing lately
GwaihirValar: mostly customs
Eonwe Valar: We hoped to organize
sometourney stuff, or even training stuff to do, but not alot of people
Eonwe Valar: asking the WC3 guys
what they'd like to see hasn't helped either,.. did that and got less
than 10 responses
GwaihirValar: aye, we tried...
Orodreth V: Yet the biggest percentage game is WC3, right?
GwaihirValar: d2x prolly...
Eonwe Valar: LoD
Eonwe Valar: from those who actually
sent in info
Orodreth V: I did. >.>
even counting the WC3 branch as a whole rather than the half who
responded, we end up with a tie at very best
Eonwe Valar: I consider the half who
responded as actually playing it though
Eonwe Valar: Maybe I should show up
Friday nights. Would any WC3 guys be there if I did? and would you be
up for a game? :}
Orodreth V: wish I could. :-\
Orodreth V: Wish I could show up at any time, period.
ah yes, you're having problems with running WC3?
Orodreth V: No.
Orodreth V: I have no net conn on my laptop.
well, that's a problem running WC3 :}
Orodreth V: And this peice of scrap metal isn't worth it's weight in
Hmm You may find your account is dead when you do log in then,..
thought I should tell you
Eonwe Valar: it's about at the 90
Eonwe Valar: don't know how long if
at all before blizzard clips it
Orodreth V: Yea.
Orodreth V: I'm trying to get to a friend's house to log in
Eonwe Valar: I hope you can manage it
GwaihirValar: if not, and you have a
friend you can trust, you could give him the pw to save account
GwaihirValar: for example, I had
Luthien's old password back when she lost access to d2x... so I could
preserve her account... but then she told me not to bother lol
Eonwe Valar: Make sure it is someone
you can trust, though, if you go that route
Eonwe Valar: we've had enough fun
with friends stealing friends' accounts
Orodreth V: Can't.
Orodreth V: Used that password on two things I can't give away.
Orodreth V: That was my first idea.
GwaihirValar: heh I see
GwaihirValar: and of course Gilraen
and I have each others passwords(But that's to be expected ;-)
Eonwe Valar: And to think,.. I never
would've known had you not told me,.. :}
Eonwe Valar: You gave GIlraen your
password?! Moving a bit fast aren't we? ;-)
GwaihirValar: while we were out
there, we both logged on regularly as each others accounts on all things
GwaihirValar: while I was out there*
Eonwe Valar: How sweet :} now get
her a WC3 cd :}
Eonwe Valar: make her play WC3 :}
j/k of course :}
GwaihirValar: her comp barely runs
Eonwe Valar: so it'll even more
barely run WC3 :}
GwaihirValar: it means the
requirements for wc3... but her comp has problems lol
GwaihirValar: you can tell I'M almost
Eonwe Valar: :}
GwaihirValar: wow, playing Azure
Dreams really takes it out of ya
Eonwe Valar: Well, maybe you should
make the ultimate sacrifice,.. give your fiancè your computer! :}
GwaihirValar: why? we'll be living
together eventually and we can share it ;-)
GwaihirValar: besides... I can't
afford to let this computer anywhere NEAR Emma's sister...
Eonwe Valar: eventually,.. :} and
she'll have access to all your accounts,.. doesn't that scare you? :}
GwaihirValar: that would be
GwaihirValar: she is an idiot, a
female dog, and the all around worst person I've ever met....
Eonwe Valar: speaking of sisters,
how's yours? you had a cousing that was likea sister or somethign I'm
jumbling that was staying with you?
GwaihirValar: she's gone! :-)
GwaihirValar: she's been gone a while
now, actually :-)
GwaihirValar: since beginning of
Eonwe Valar: I'll take it
congratulations are in order :}
Eonwe Valar: congrats :}
Eonwe Valar: I think the engagement
deserves a bigger congrats though :}
GwaihirValar: oh ya, definitely
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: How long have you two
known eachother, if you don't mind my asking? Assuming I didn't ask
GwaihirValar: a year and a half - 2
Eonwe Valar: wow that's at least as
long as you've been in the Guild,..
GwaihirValar: in that range
GwaihirValar: nowhere near it actually
Eonwe Valar: really?
GwaihirValar: it's about half as long
as I've been in the guild hehe
GwaihirValar: I remember the guild's
FOURTH anniversary :-)
Eonwe Valar: you've been here that
Eonwe Valar: wow,..
GwaihirValar: I was in the fourth
anniversary trivia competition
Eonwe Valar: I remember that :}
GwaihirValar: remember? I was your
Eonwe Valar: aye, one reason I
GwaihirValar: hehe :-)
GwaihirValar: yup, it's been over 3
Eonwe Valar: wow, time does fly :}
GwaihirValar: the 23rd will be my 3
year anniversary of being Maia as well as my one year anniversary of
dating Emma :-)
Eonwe Valar: My 5th Anniversary is
coming up, believe it or not :}
Eonwe Valar: well congrats :}
GwaihirValar: coincidental date, if I
do say so myself lol
GwaihirValar: odd that it worked out
Eonwe Valar: you two going to
GwaihirValar: but I swear it wasn't
Eonwe Valar: Not by you, anyway :}
GwaihirValar: If we can afford it,
we're gonna spend a night away from my family lol
GwaihirValar: get a night of privacy
Eonwe Valar: she's in England,
though, isn't she?
GwaihirValar: she'll be coming out
GwaihirValar: for a few weeks
Eonwe Valar: ah, cool :}
Eonwe Valar: gentleman, my friend,
perfect gentleman :}
Eonwe Valar: I'll be sitting here 20
years later telling that to the young-uns of the Guild,.. I can already
see it :}
GwaihirValar: I hope the Guild is
indeed around another 20 years :-)
Eonwe Valar: We're working on it :}
GwaihirValar: I'm paying for over
half of the trip out here because I'm the only one with money :-)
Eonwe Valar: Don't worry, next
you'll be buying jewelry at least 3 times a year, flowers, cards,.. :}
GwaihirValar: I hope I can
GwaihirValar: although over
jewellery, flowers, and cards... I'll be buying plane tickets and time
alone with her lol
Eonwe Valar: lol :}
Eonwe Valar: I would say "only until
you two get married" but then comes kids, and you'll still want to be
buying thos eplane tickets :}
GwaihirValar: Well, once we get
married, house is next lol
Eonwe Valar: aye :}
GwaihirValar: but there're still at
least 4 or so years on the married note
Eonwe Valar: What's her degree?
GwaihirValar: she's getting a b.ed
specializing in early years
Eonwe Valar: ah cool
Eonwe Valar: you two both freshmen
GwaihirValar: it's funny, she's the
opposite of me in that respect... she ADORES kids... I can onlydeal
with them for short periods of time hehe
GwaihirValar: well, I'm in what we
call 'U2' here... I'm still in my, from a course standpoint, first year
GwaihirValar: but this is coming up
on the second year since I started
GwaihirValar: the end of the second
Eonwe Valar: hmm,..
Eonwe Valar: so U1 would be like a
GwaihirValar: no, U1 is my
university's program for first year university
Eonwe Valar: ok,..
GwaihirValar: it's just basically the
introductory courses, experimentation...
Eonwe Valar: I see, sort of,.. so U1
= Freshmam, U2 = Sophomore
GwaihirValar: whatever... lol
Eonwe Valar: Are you going for a PHD
or Master's? because 6 total years seems a bit long for a degree plan
GwaihirValar: we don't really use
those names up here
Eonwe Valar: I figured as much :}
Eonwe Valar: unless you're also
counting time to put some money back
GwaihirValar: just a BCS, however,
due to some complications I had to take this semester off and only take
a few electives next semester
Eonwe Valar: ah,.. makes sense
Eonwe Valar: Have you taken physics
GwaihirValar: No, I don't like the
way my university is doing physics, so I'm not taking it
Eonwe Valar: it's not required for
Eonwe Valar: lucky lucky you
Eonwe Valar: I have to take it, and
the proceeding class
Eonwe Valar: for my BS CS
Eonwe Valar: read that how you will
GwaihirValar: I wish I could've taken
it... but it's done horribly
Eonwe Valar: but the standard
reading is Bachelor of Science in Computer Science
GwaihirValar: I just said 'BCS
because Bachelor's Degree of Computer Sciences...
GwaihirValar: the first Science is
Eonwe Valar: aye
Eonwe Valar: well, here we have a BA
GwaihirValar: we have it here too
GwaihirValar: I just leave off the
first S if the course name explains which
Eonwe Valar: BS gets a higher pay on
average, so gues swhich I chose :}
GwaihirValar: like you're not gonna
have a BACS
Eonwe Valar: actually ,we do, that
was my point
GwaihirValar: Bachelor of Arts in
Computer Sciences? not gonna work...
Eonwe Valar: we have a BA in CS and
a BS in CS
GwaihirValar: that's... wierd...
GwaihirValar: how could you get a
Bachelor of ARTS in Computer Sciences...
GwaihirValar: oh,but I was wrong, I
don't have the Greek Mythology course next semester
GwaihirValar: I have a Roman Culture
course and a Greek and Roman Mythology Course
Eonwe Valar: the BS requires more
knowledge of math and science, hence more classes and more trying to
fit things into my brain :}
GwaihirValar: not the Greek one
GwaihirValar: ah I see...
GwaihirValar: it still doesn't
Eonwe Valar: One thing I know for
sure: I wish I had taken physics at TCC a couple of years ago :}
GwaihirValar: see... I loved the
physics coursework... and the tests...
GwaihirValar: but the labs killed
me... they're done in such a way that takes all the worth out of them
Eonwe Valar: the labs are the easy
GwaihirValar: we're literally told
ALL we are supposed to learn out of it
Eonwe Valar: hehe
GwaihirValar: and you had 24 hours to
WRITE the report on them
GwaihirValar: my handwriting is
GwaihirValar: especially if I'm rushed
GwaihirValar: they would NOT let you
type any of it up
Eonwe Valar: we just go into a lab,
do the work, record results, answer some questions, take a test, and no
more thinking about the lab
GwaihirValar: We go in, watch a
HORRIBLY boring tape that explains everything and walks us through the
Eonwe Valar: I don't like having to
create my own equations, and that's pretty much what I have to do for
my physics homework
GwaihirValar: then we do the lab,
then we have to write a 2-3 page report in a specific book that we're
not allowed to add or remove pages to or from... that we had to BUY
GwaihirValar: and hand it in within
Eonwe Valar: hehe, we have tapes,
but I've never see none up ther efor my lab, and I doubt too many
bother watching them for any of the physics labs :}
GwaihirValar: also, the labs are
completely irrelevent to the tests
GwaihirValar: none of the stuff we do
in them has much to do directly with our course work
GwaihirValar: but they're mandatory
GwaihirValar: and you can't pass
without doing 4 of the 5...
GwaihirValar: *rolls eyes*
Eonwe Valar: we have about 13 labs,
could pass doing maybe 10 or 11
GwaihirValar: it's just absolute
crap... and I couldn't stand it... so I'm not taking physics lol
Eonwe Valar: the way they have it,
each lab is worth 150 points. Get to about 1500 I think and you're good
GwaihirValar: we have 10 lab
sessions, 5 are tests, 5 are actual labs... the tests are no problem...
I love doing physics work...
Eonwe Valar: 100 points for lab, 50
GwaihirValar: but the labs were, as I
said, just horrific
Eonwe Valar: you want to help me
with my physics homework? :}
GwaihirValar: I could not continue
with that, it would've destroyed me... lol... I think that was what
wore me out...
GwaihirValar: or part of it
Eonwe Valar: or fly down and take my
GwaihirValar: combined with the 13
straight years of schooling with no real breaks and the utter
exhaustion(was getting about 3-4 hours of half-sleep a night)
GwaihirValar: I don't get much rest
out of my sleep at the best of times lol
GwaihirValar: 3-4 hours of my
restless sleep... didn't help
GwaihirValar: I fell asleep during
every physics class hehe
GwaihirValar: but I still did nearly
perfect on the quizzes
Eonwe Valar: I can for the most part
understand the physics stuff
Eonwe Valar: it's doing
ring-around-the-rosy with these equations that's killing me, especially
since I'm also trying to program 3 programs every 2 weeks and master
discrete math on top of keeping up with tech writing
GwaihirValar: the programming and
physics equation stuff would be fun
GwaihirValar: discrete math is a pain
Eonwe Valar: I thought you were
GwaihirValar: I had a course called
discrete math... but it wasn't the programmer's discrete math
Eonwe Valar: It's a big pain,
especially since proofs has never been something I've been fond of in
math, and balance that with everythign I named before
GwaihirValar: oh hmm.... wait, I
guess it is the same course
GwaihirValar: not sure
Eonwe Valar: We just have one
discrete math for all
GwaihirValar: mathematical proofs or
Eonwe Valar: Induction, big O, big
GwaihirValar: okay, ya, same stuff as
I was doing
Eonwe Valar: Euclid's theorem
GwaihirValar: but that was one of the
courses I 'burned' in...
GwaihirValar: so I didn't actually DO
it... I sorta lost all motivation... so stopped doing work
Eonwe Valar: I'm not doing
programming, math, and science all in one semester again
GwaihirValar: I desperately needed a
break... because I just had no motivation for anything but programming
Eonwe Valar: I don't know what made
me think it was a good idea for this semester
GwaihirValar: get it all out of the
Eonwe Valar: I thought that was why
I went to a community college for 2 years :}
Eonwe Valar: Now I'd like to throw
some of those easy classes in here
Eonwe Valar: Well, I underestimated
what I was getting into,.. Had I suspected I would have a CS class and
a CS lab, each demanding programs of me, I might've thought twice
Eonwe Valar: for Physics and
Discrete math, I could take either separately and probably pull off a
b,.. both,.. well it's a good thing I'm a man of faith :}
Eonwe Valar: anyway, that's enough
of my complaining :}
Eonwe Valar: lol about what?
GwaihirValar: the complaining comment
Eonwe Valar: ah :}
Orodreth V: Anyone here?
Eonwe Valar has left the room.