Valar Guild

October 31, 2004 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST (no longer Daylight Savings Time)
Back to News
Transcript team: ArPharazon, Turgon, Varda
    Letter to Tolkien Encyc showing some problems. Worked on and solved some.
    Hobbit: map confusion and solved it
Meeting Begins (formally anyway)
Membership News:
    Embla-(TV) - reports on New Zealand's LotR filming sites
    Luthien Tindomeral-V in TFT
Web News:
    Beren's Lore Book bad news
    Tolkien Encyclopedia:
          New section: Fellowship
       Help locating bad links needed while Encyc is undergoing re-build, all articles and authors getting their own pages. Gilraen and Eonwe have been helping.
Gaming News:
    State of Valar Gaming Report text on News
    Azure Dreams. In After-meeting
    BroodWar: Orodreth. In After-meeting
    Gilraen's Role-playing game. New characters can now enter.
    Guild Wars Beta
    Interplay: included LotR games. In After-meeting
    Middle-earth Online Role-playing game on our Forum. Good spot now for Mirkwood Elf characters to join our party.
    WarCraft/The Frozen Throne: new map
    In Before-meeting: Hobbit: Map confusion and solved it
    In Tolkien section: Gondolin's betrayal
    Forum: number of pm's we can store
    Forum Middle-earth Online rp talk
    Computer talk 

You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Orodreth V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: already here :-)
Orodreth V: Aiya
TurgonjustTurgon: and afk
Eonwe Valar: heya all :}
Eonwe Valar: I always send invites to everyone just in case :}
ArPharazonV: Aiya
GilraenV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: That should be everyone on my list
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: semi- afk now,.. programming :}
ArPharazonV: in game, will be right back
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
GilraenV: Aiya
GwaihirValar: hey
Eonwe Valar: heya :} So my invitation wasn't fancy enough for you? :}
Eonwe Valar: only gold frills, not mithril? too plain? :}
GwaihirValar: when compared to my beloved's invite... ;-)
GilraenV: It's 'cause I'm prettier ^.~
Eonwe Valar: well, ok :} I won't argue then :}
GilraenV: hehe
GwaihirValar: hehe
ArPharazonV: ok, back
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: wb :}
Orodreth V: I'm afk, trying to manage a dozen conversations and edit o*counts* 4 short stories, all at the same time.
ArPharazonV: so, what did you think of guildwars-weekend?
You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
VardaValar1: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: heya :}
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Varda's name is dazzlingly bright today :}
Eonwe Valar: yellow :}
VardaValar1: Odd.
VardaValar1: Yours looks pine green
ArPharazonV: it's all about the order in which you came into the channel...
VardaValar1: Phar's looks gray
ArPharazonV: to yourself, you always look red
Eonwe Valar: Phar's is pink :}
ArPharazonV: oro is pink to me
VardaValar1: Happy Halloween and time change :-)
ArPharazonV: and gilraen would be grey to Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: Happy Daylight Savings time end day :}
GilraenV: VardaValar1:Eonwe Valar: ArPharazonV:Orodreth VGwaihirValar:
GilraenV: my colours. and happy hallowe'en
ArPharazonV: happy halloween...
ArPharazonV: even though we don't do halloween here
VardaValar1: I'm going to show you guys a letter just came in
VardaValar1: Have to do it in pieces
VardaValar1: hello i was looking at your website of toilkens encyclopedia where i was looking for facts on the nine ringwraiths[nazgul]much to my upset you have not got any facts on them although i may be looking for them in
VardaValar1: the wrong part i doubt that i am.if i am indeed looking for them in the wrong part please can you email me back with the way to go about looking for them.if they are indeed not in this website can you please email me back
VardaValar1: with this fact.i will be most grateful for speed in delivery of this mail as i need these facts for coursework of english lituture.yours sincerly
VardaValar1: I will leave off the name.
Eonwe Valar: cool, we get people doing literature research
Eonwe Valar: afk for a few
VardaValar1: k
GilraenV: do we really not have anything on nazgul?
ArPharazonV: the encyc is actually used for research... by outsiders... must be quite a boost to your morale, Varda :-)
VardaValar1: It's often used for research, not what I was pointing out
VardaValar1: I remember putting stuff in, but it's obviously not where it can be found easily
Arwen V1: Can you find it?
VardaValar1: I'll look harder now. Not good
VardaValar1: I've been rigging a way to search by letter to help locate
VardaValar1: not finished, though
VardaValar1: Funny, I did not find it a morale boost at all
VardaValar1: It says the Encyc is not the help it should be
VardaValar1: Worse, I remember an article on Khamul and another on the Witch-king, not locating them myself. heh
VardaValar1: There's the Witch-king
VardaValar1: Mankind
VardaValar1: Ringwraiths, etc
Arwen V1: I found them
VardaValar1: No link to them is the problem
VardaValar1: Will fix
VardaValar1: O good :-)
Arwen V1: mankind - king list, bottom, ringwraiths
ArPharazonV: perhaps we should have different sections that link to the article, instead of one section
Arwen V1: under the almost men section
VardaValar1: sure enough. Bad labeling
VardaValar1: Takes an Arwen to find it :-)
VardaValar1: I know you're extra smart :-)
Arwen V1: hehe
Arwen V1: thanks =)
Musics4Me2 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Farmer
Musics4Me2: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: leaving for asec,.. gotta switch lines
ArPharazonV: you were putting all the articles on seperate pages, right?
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: so, instead of having the sections themselves displaying the articles, they just link to them, right?
VardaValar1: aye
VardaValar1: should load faster, allow several types of navigation
ArPharazonV: that could allow for each article to have different sections link to it, if they don't exactly fall in one category...
ArPharazonV: and that could also allow for several more abstract categories, like 'forces of evil/mordor' or something for the nazgul, instead of just mankind
ArPharazonV: which would also give you better navigation and user-friendliness
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
Eonwe Valar: hantalye
VardaValar1: Right Phar. That's the plan
ArPharazonV: in that case, problems like with these nazgul should soon be solved, right?
VardaValar1: I have way too many people talking at me in separate windows
VardaValar1: It is ok to talk in the chat room
VardaValar1: I will keep the threads separate, more or less :-)
Orodreth V: *gasp*
ArPharazonV: ok then
Orodreth V: a chat room?!
Orodreth V: </mock horror>
VardaValar1: Please please : )
ArPharazonV: well, I can repeat here what I just told Varda
ArPharazonV: I just reread the hobbit last week
ArPharazonV: and studying both maps (thror's, and the one of Wilderland) I'm a lil confused about Dale, and the course of the river
ArPharazonV: they seem to contradict each other, and the hints in the book (about crossing the river and such) are not quite matching up either
ArPharazonV: now for several purposes, and curiosity, I'm trying to form a map in my head of the environment, but as such, it's proving a little difficult
VardaValar1: Try the Shire Post link, new one still on News
VardaValar1: for the Shire area
VardaValar1: Do you remember the contradictions?
ArPharazonV: yes, I know a few..
ArPharazonV: but for exact details, lemme fetch the book, it's nearby
ArPharazonV: ok, back
ArPharazonV: if we look at the map at the back of the book, about Wilderland, we see the river turning east very early, then south again after a distance, and running on quite straight to Esgaroth
ArPharazonV: this would fit with the statement that when Bilbo and the Dwarves exit the river, they branch off west from it, and thus come to the mountain, effectively taking a shortcut
ArPharazonV: however
ArPharazonV: if we look at Thror's map at the beginning of the book, it shows something different:
ArPharazonV: the river goes a little south, then east taking a circle around Dale, skirting the southwest spur, and continuing towards the southwest, to the long lake
ArPharazonV: this makes a lot more sense if you have the maps with you... should I provide a quick link for you?
ArPharazonV: anyway
ArPharazonV: there are other examples besides this obvious contradiction
ArPharazonV: for example, in the book it is said in one point, that the Elves and Men besieging the mountain move their camp from Dale, and east across the river, to get closer to the gate
ArPharazonV: with a little imagination, I can still understand this description, although literally taken they would not really get closer to the gate
ArPharazonV: however
ArPharazonV: when Dain arrives, he stops east from the river, and sends messengers across the river, towards the human/elven camp
ArPharazonV: of course, this doesn't fit with each other either
ArPharazonV: certainly not if you take both maps into account
TurgonjustTurgon: just a point of note there
ArPharazonV: after discussing this a bit with Fladrif when I saw him in the bus, he said he had noticed the same contradictions, and I wondered if any of you had noticed them as well, and come to a conclusion...
ArPharazonV: go ahead, Turg
TurgonjustTurgon: you sure it said that the Elf / Humand camp moved east of the river?
ArPharazonV: yes, they crossed the river, and put a new camp at the eastside
Musics4Me2 has left the room.
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiyata
TurgonjustTurgon: well.... taken into account that the books handle from Thorin's map
TurgonjustTurgon: it COULD be possible that the messenger went accros the river twice...
ArPharazonV: 'That day the camp was moved to the east of the river, right between the arms of the Mountain.'
TurgonjustTurgon: maybe, because the loop around dale in the river might bring it to a point where it is hard to traverse the land east of that spot
ArPharazonV: hey, you could be right...
TurgonjustTurgon: thus, Dain, coming from the east and a little south, up to Dale, would stop south of those mountain arms and east of the river
TurgonjustTurgon: so, that would mean that the messenger had to cross the river to the west, into Dale, and then east again to the Elves
TurgonjustTurgon: this too, would be of great tactical value
TurgonjustTurgon: because the Dwarves now did not have to cross the river once, but twice
ArPharazonV: that would make sense... according to a later point in that conversation with the messengers, the dwarves were planning to go through that small passage between mountain and river
ArPharazonV: to get to the gate
TurgonjustTurgon: while the Elven and Human archers could take the advantage of that
TurgonjustTurgon: indeed
ArPharazonV: but the camp would be right in the way...
TurgonjustTurgon: that too
ArPharazonV: still, how would it explain Bilbo, with the Arkenstone, had to cross the river to get to that camp?
TurgonjustTurgon: and because the narrow passage would be very easy to defend from the new camp
TurgonjustTurgon: well, that might be because the gate itself is a doorway from which the river ushers
VardaValar1: Ok, improved navigation, emailed the guy. Back.
TurgonjustTurgon: and the path beside the river, would most likely lead directly into Dale
TurgonjustTurgon: thus on the west side of the river
ArPharazonV: ah yes, but I saw something about that too
ArPharazonV: when the party of 14 went to Ravenhill, which is on the southwest spur
ArPharazonV: they took that same crossing
ArPharazonV: that Bilbo took as well
ArPharazonV: although the road they took then, was on the left side of the stream
ArPharazonV: which is, assumedly, the east side
TurgonjustTurgon: which from south view would be correct
TurgonjustTurgon: and at the time they wer geoing to Ravenhill, their main camp was exactly where the Human / Elf camp would be later
ArPharazonV: they came from the north, you know
TurgonjustTurgon: too long of the Hobbit for me to remember that part clearly
VardaValar1: Reason we are allowed to use books during the chat. This is not a test ;-)
ArPharazonV: in that case, Bilbo came from the right side of the stream the second time, and took that crossing in the exact opposite direction...
ArPharazonV: which could fit, seeing as the company of 14 had walled up the gate and made a new exit
TurgonjustTurgon: my copy of the Hobbit is somewhere, I have no idea where tho
ArPharazonV: hmm... this could explain most of the hints and directions
ArPharazonV: except for one thing:
TurgonjustTurgon: you do know that altho Tolkien was very meticolous in his describing, he didn't always give detailed account of everything
ArPharazonV: the party, as I said, when they left the river to go to the mountain, took off in a northwestern direction, away from the river
ArPharazonV: which fits with the map of wilderland, but not at all with Thror's map
ArPharazonV: and as such, not with the other hints as well
ArPharazonV: this would mean he created the map of wilderland first, and thror's map only after they had reached the mountain... and he never took the time to correlate the two with each other
ArPharazonV: so he made the map of wilderland, and then wrote about the party going to the mountain from the river
ArPharazonV: after that, he drew out thror's map, and after that, he came up with the whole river/crossing/camps/dale-bit
ArPharazonV: I'm starting to think like Christopher in the Histories now...
ArPharazonV: taking all this into consideration, I can clearly see I have to follow the map of Thror, and not the one of Wilderland... and the only statement I cannot use is the one where they leave the river
TurgonjustTurgon: well, looking at the magnitude of Tolkien's writings, and even at the Hobbit he was very busy with creating his languages, I wouldn't blame him if he slipped an error or 2
ArPharazonV: well, I think this clears out any confusion the book gave me.. thanks
ArPharazonV: I'll pass the news to Fladrif
VardaValar1: It will also be in the transcript ;-)
ArPharazonV: yes, that too, of course :-)
VardaValar1: Gilraen, thanks for your help with the links
ArPharazonV: I think I'm all set now to draw out the chapters, so I can put them to good use in the war3 campaign :-)
ArPharazonV: that was the actual main reason of putting the chapters in maps in my head
VardaValar1: Phar, may we start the business meeting now? :-)
ArPharazonV: yes, go ahead
VardaValar1: Thanks ever so
ArPharazonV: my problem is dealt with

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1: Members Info
VardaValar1: Valar Standard Time is now an hour later
VardaValar1: since ESDT is now EST
VardaValar1: Arathorn seems more active again
sauronjag has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Lungorthin :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
sauronjag: Hola :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: Aiya!
VardaValar1: No new members this week
sauronjag: (I can only stay about a minute! but I will keep it open and try to chat in awhile. happy halloween everyone)
VardaValar1: Embla-(TV) is still in New Zealand, emailing us reports of the filming sites for the LotR movie
VardaValar1: Thanks, Lungorthin
VardaValar1: Did you have any web reports, o White Demon?
VardaValar1: He handles our Book List and Review section, as well as DAoC

VardaValar1: Web News:
sauronjag: Nope. I've been looking into dark age again, but I'm not sure if I' mgoing to be able to actually do anything about it
VardaValar1: Okie dokie. Good luck with it
VardaValar1: Tolkien Encyclopedia:
sauronjag: I've been nonstop busy for a long time now and it's not slowing down :-) Namarie everyone
VardaValar1: Namarie, hard-working one. We know how it is
ArPharazonV: Namarie
VardaValar1: Tolkien Encyclopedia:
VardaValar1: new section: Fellowship
VardaValar1: Sub-categories in it, anyone can add to them. It will be mostly links to those, it looks like now.
VardaValar1: Some things did not fit in individual spots and this seemed like a nifty solution.
VardaValar1: New article: Ori
VardaValar1: Spawned during researching a longer article
VardaValar1: Any other Web news?
VardaValar1: Oh, and Gilraen has been helping locate bad links while I'm rebuilding the Encyc : )

VardaValar1: Gaming News:
VardaValar1: Eonwe has some when he returns from afk
VardaValar1: Arathorn sent a letter on Guild Wars:
VardaValar1: Grimbold and I are going to try out the 'Guild Wars' beta this weekend since my internet is back. I'm just wondering who else is going to?
VardaValar1: I know Ar-pharazon brought it up a few times from the meeting transcripts I read, so I imagine he will, but who else is interested?
VardaValar1: That was the copy/paste from Arathorn.
TurgonjustTurgon: have already been playing with Grimbold and Arathorn
VardaValar1: Thanks, Turgon. How was it?
GwaihirValar: I believe that was this weekend... how long is it lasting?
TurgonjustTurgon: until 12 tonight as far as I know
ArPharazonV: yes, today is the last day
VardaValar1: World preview goes until tonight, aye
GwaihirValar: what style game is it? I haven't looked much...
TurgonjustTurgon: I'll try to keep the report short
VardaValar1: Fire when ready : )
TurgonjustTurgon: it's an RPG, MMO
TurgonjustTurgon: the graphics are absolutely fabolous
TurgonjustTurgon: fabulous even
TurgonjustTurgon: gameplay is nice as well, it has every aspect a MMO should have
TurgonjustTurgon: friends list, private messages, party messages, Guilds
GwaihirValar: *sighs* another MMO... is nobody making any good games anymore...
VardaValar1: We will have Gwaihir make us a good game!
ArPharazonV: I played for some time as well, although pc-crashes often got in the way, and I was away a lot... I never even completed the second 'main quest' :-D
GwaihirValar: I'm nowhere near THAT point yet I'm afraid ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon: there is even an option to travel from and to the most important places
TurgonjustTurgon: well, it deviates from MMO's in certain areas
VardaValar1: So it has a stress problem? Maybe repairable with more servers?
TurgonjustTurgon: for example, there are quests and staging areas therefore and at the end of each quest is a marvelous cinematic
ArPharazonV: no, problems are from my pc I think
TurgonjustTurgon: I have experienced very little to no lag
VardaValar1: ouch, Phar
ArPharazonV: they also happen sometimes with War3 and Dungeon Siege...
TurgonjustTurgon: this is probably because of the way staging areas and towns are divided up, so not too many people will be in the same spot
TurgonjustTurgon: although a good effort, and certainly nice for the laggishness, I think this is one of the downsides
TurgonjustTurgon: it is hampering with players looking for equipment or crafters
TurgonjustTurgon: one of the other downsides, and a big one to me, that once a player uses the instant travel system, that player automatically leaves the group he is in
TurgonjustTurgon: so, if a player would want to go to a town and learn new spells or buy new things, he'd have to find a new group again
FallenGlory has entered the room.
Shaggyjoe has entered the room.
Shaggyjoe: heya
FallenGlory: Hey
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
TurgonjustTurgon: all in all, I think this is a great game, and worth its while
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Let our new guys know the game name?
TurgonjustTurgon: oh yes, one final thing
TurgonjustTurgon: the looting system is the worst thing of all
TurgonjustTurgon: any dropped loot is reserved for the player who gives the finishing blow
ArPharazonV: really? I was under the impression they were reserved randomly
GwaihirValar: I can't see that as being THAT bad...
VardaValar1: Kill stealers will be Killed on Sight : )
TurgonjustTurgon: nope, that's a pluspoint
GwaihirValar: I mean it negates about as much abuse as it implements
TurgonjustTurgon: areas with creeps in them are ALL divided
TurgonjustTurgon: each group has a different one
VardaValar1: Turgon, when you are done, Gilraen is next
ArPharazonV: yup, and gold is shared amongst the party
VardaValar1: Then Eonwe
TurgonjustTurgon: anyways, weighing the good against the bad, I'd say it breaks even
GwaihirValar: I don't know how much of a problem MMOs have with invisibility/hiding... BUT I know in some other games it's easy to hide and wait for items to drop and then take them before other people can get them....
TurgonjustTurgon: well, in the payable MMO's (DaoC at least) loot is reserved for the party that makes the kill
TurgonjustTurgon: anyways, I'm finished on Guild Wars, I'd like to give the gavel to Gilraen :-)
VardaValar1: Gilraen, please go ahead.
TurgonjustTurgon: she seems afk at the moment
TurgonjustTurgon: maybe Gwai can kiss her from her beauty sleep ;-)
GwaihirValar: lol
VardaValar1: Gilraen is pulled away to do a chore for her mother right now
VardaValar1: Eonwe, your turn : )
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: First, I'd like to say I finished getting together the gaming information and putting together the State of Valar Gaming Report
Eonwe Valar: It should be on the News page very soon
Eonwe Valar: Some numbers I'd like to point to is that only about 1/3 of our Guild even responded to the letter
FarmerMaggotV: ouch
Eonwe Valar: Hopefully if you're here, you were among those who did respond. A quick look over the roll tells me at least most of you did.
TurgonjustTurgon: yikes...
ArPharazonV: that ain't much
Eonwe Valar: If you didn't, get the info in for the Games Page. It won't affect the report at this point, but it'll help us know where you game, and hopefully help you find someone to game with.
Eonwe Valar: Some pages won't have player listings on the Updated Games page
TurgonjustTurgon: in case Luthien and / or Paladin Took didn't send theirs, I have met and played with them in TFT
ArPharazonV: yeah, same here... we encountered them yesterday
Eonwe Valar: D1, Neverwinter Nights, Warcraft 2
GwaihirValar: ahh, Luthy's been on again... good to hear.
Eonwe Valar: and E-mail to the Games Page counts as a contact with the Guild, btw
TurgonjustTurgon: she goes under the nick of Tindomerel-V if you happen to come across her
VardaValar1: The State of Valar Gaming Report is now on the News page under Oct. 29
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Turgon
Eonwe Valar: THanks Varda
VardaValar1: My pleasure
Eonwe Valar: If you see members around in games, encourage them to e-mail their info to the Games Page if they haven't, with a CC to Varda just in case.
Eonwe Valar: Second, I have some WC3 branch news.
Eonwe Valar: I've removed from the branch accounts that are near or over 300 days since last login
Eonwe Valar: these accounts are more than dead by Blizzard's standard.
VardaValar1: That include WarCraft 3 and The Frozen Thorne both
VardaValar1: Throne
Eonwe Valar: aye, ROC and TFT both
Eonwe Valar: If you find your account was among those deleted, you need to get in contact with me or one of the Shamen to get the tag on a new guild account.
Eonwe Valar: if it wasn't deleted and you find your account is dead, let me know so it can be removed, then make a new account and get one of us to tag it.
Eonwe Valar: If your account is more than 90 days since last login, you may find it dead when you try to next log in.
Orodreth V: Still trying to work on going somewhere just to keep my account active..
Eonwe Valar: 3rd : New WC3 map for halloween. Haven't tried it yet.
ArPharazonV: me neither.. tried downloading it once, but failed
Eonwe Valar: One more note on 2 : we have 24 members in the WC3 branch after the account deletions. about half of those are under the 28 days, so we're ok for now
GwaihirValar: good!
Eonwe Valar: That'll do it for my news. Back to you Varda.
VardaValar1: Gilraen is next, still on Gaming News
DaeTPringl has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Eowyn : )
DaeTPringl: Hail, I am Eowyn. Though my name is spelled completely wrong at the moment. ;-)
GilraenV: I'm advertising a forum-based rpg (a la the one on the guild message board) by the name of the Empire of Arine ( is the easiest address to give )
GilraenV: (and Gwaihir will be wincing after reading that as he's heard far too much about it recently)
VardaValar1: hehe
GilraenV: It's run by myself and a friend, and on friday we moved to the new location, so basically starting up again 2 years after the last story left off. It's set in a world simailar to mediaeval Earth, but it has magick
GilraenV: and a rather matriarchal society, courtesy of it's creators being female ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon: not too much like Wheel of Time, I hope?
GilraenV: Wheel of Time?
Eonwe Valar: Turgon read my mind,.. :}
GwaihirValar: I think that answers your questions...
GwaihirValar: :-)
VardaValar1: I had that thought too
TurgonjustTurgon: well, Wheel of time is centered around inadequacy of men, to put it lightly
Eonwe Valar: aye, putting it quite lightly, Turgon :}
VardaValar1: Our guild is mostly guys, so that kind of stinks
FarmerMaggotV: nah
FarmerMaggotV: :P
VardaValar1: :-)
GwaihirValar: umm... It's more likely to be based off of Exiles in that regard than WoT... because I believe she hasn't read WoT, but I know she has read Exiles :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: I haven't
Eonwe Valar: So how similar is Exiles to WoT ? give us non-Exiles-but WoT-readers a little idea :}
GwaihirValar: I've never read WoT, couldn't get past page 15.
TurgonjustTurgon: but if its a matriarchal society without the WoT thingy about men, it's cool
GwaihirValar: however, I'm not sure it was based off either ;-)
GwaihirValar: anyways, afk for a short while
FarmerMaggotV: darn, there goes reality sucking him in again :P
Orodreth V: Reality! Pssh! who needs that?
GilraenV: the majority of deities and rulers are female.
VardaValar1: This is one reality, right here ;-)
Eonwe Valar: anyway, gl with the RP GIlraen :}
Orodreth V: I
GilraenV: but no man-hating. well, one of the characters hates men. but the society in general doesn't
Orodreth V: I'm in the middle of GMing my own and joing another major RP, so I'll look into it but I dunno if I can dedicate time to three major RPs.
GilraenV: so... *shrug* if anyone's interested, wander along and have a gander, please.
TurgonjustTurgon: I'll check it out when I have the time, bookmarked for now
VardaValar1: Orodreth, next you'll have to jump into the Middle-earth one on the Valar forum ;-)
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VardaValar1: And Gilraen, you mentioned new folk could join in now?
GilraenV: indeed... we're just starting up again after moving boards
ArPharazonV: yes, I'm kinda stuck at that one... can't decide whether to continue my sidequest in letter-form, or in normal form... I'm not sure about what I want to give away
GilraenV: so ther aren't any major plots going on yet. of course, new characters are always welcome
VardaValar1: Thank you, O brave rp creator : )
VardaValar1: Speaking of rp's, the guild rp in our Forum is in a spot where other folk can join in from Mirkwood.
VardaValar1: We need five warriors to join us there
VardaValar1: Any gender, Gilraen : )
ArPharazonV: anybody who wants to play my younger brother is welcome as well!
ArPharazonV: he's a key part in my sidequest, and we could have him join us
VardaValar1: I could use a brother too : )
FarmerMaggotV: I could give you mine :P
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: I'd love to drag in Merry or Sam, but would be very tickled to take any of you
VardaValar1: Not a bad apple here
VardaValar1: I could have a sister if the brother is a problem : )
VardaValar1: Turgon has some TFT news
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Turgon. And he has a web url too
TurgonjustTurgon: ok, as usual, through Pharazon, I got a new map for TFT
TurgonjustTurgon: the Weakest Link, LotR style
TurgonjustTurgon: after playing a couple times, it became evident it had some errors in answers and questions
TurgonjustTurgon: so after what seemed to me as a lot of fiddling, I managed to purge the errors from the question "database"
TurgonjustTurgon: I also removed some of the bad language that was intended for people who left before the game was finished
VardaValar1: (It was in there without Turgon putting it there)
TurgonjustTurgon: I have not yet found a way to allow multiple answers to a question, but am working on that
ArPharazonV: heh... I just hope you didn't change too much... some questions were actually correct which you thought weren't
VardaValar1: Please PM me any Tolkien topics
TurgonjustTurgon: also, after testing the new one, Paladin and Luthien, gave me some pointers on some of the questions
TurgonjustTurgon: and no, didn't change anything that I was not sure of being wrong
TurgonjustTurgon: and that's it for the map
TurgonjustTurgon: As for the link
TurgonjustTurgon: it's an encyclopedia site
TurgonjustTurgon: much like ours, and just as complete as ours
ArPharazonV: looks... very... familiar
TurgonjustTurgon: which means, a lot of articles, no where near to completion :-)
ArPharazonV: you sure it wasn't in the database yet?
VardaValar1: That should be in the Encyc
VardaValar1: Encyclopedia of Arda
VardaValar1: Will check
Orodreth V: The Encyclopedia of Arda is great for alternate names and meanings.
VardaValar1: It is there under "Encyclopedias"
GwaihirValar: btw, the part of reality that was sucking me in was food... so I can forgive it ;-)
FarmerMaggotV: ah
VardaValar1: Food is a good reality : )
DaeTPringl: mmm food
FarmerMaggotV: I bring the food back to my reality
ArPharazonV: what do eagles eat, anyway?
VardaValar1: Good plan, farmer
GwaihirValar: that's what I did...
GwaihirValar: but it still took time to finish prepping ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon: hmmm... still can't find it
DaeTPringl: other eagles? j/k
VardaValar1: Snakes, birds, fish, what they can catch
ArPharazonV: yummy, Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: yes, the rare and elusive breaded chicken ;-)
FarmerMaggotV: yay
VardaValar1: Look under Tolkien, Encyclopedias
VardaValar1: Not alphabetical
VardaValar1: Dark Side of Tolkien is out of place, needs moved. Will do
VardaValar1: no, it is not out of place
VardaValar1: Can you see it now?
TurgonjustTurgon: weird.... there doesn't seem to be a link OR a section called Encyclopedias under Tolkien where I am browsing....
ArPharazonV: I just found it under 'more links'
VardaValar1: Our Links section is under More Links on the index
VardaValar1: The index is to Valar pages
VardaValar1: More links is to non-Valar pages
VardaValar1: Bilbo-(V) says hi, just came in : )
TurgonjustTurgon: well, I just can't find it
ArPharazonV: olkienEncycs
TurgonjustTurgon: on another note, Beren's Lorebook is down, his geocities site has gone untended for too long and has gone into inactivity
ArPharazonV: the ninth one
ArPharazonV: yes, I noticed that this week, I wanted to use it.. don't know what for, but I wanted to use it
ArPharazonV: and it was gone...
GwaihirValar: hmm... for a while he had a link to a new site there, I think
GwaihirValar: maybe he moved it
TurgonjustTurgon: nope, checked both
TurgonjustTurgon: both inactive
VardaValar1: Checked. Both links to Lore Book are down
TurgonjustTurgon: and, yes, I found it
VardaValar1: He is active on the Forum. We can ask him there
TurgonjustTurgon: no wonder I couldn't find it before, I am used to using the main page, not the main "main" page
ArPharazonV: I found it using the main page, not the main 'main' page... if we're talking about the same thing... but still, each his own ways of tracking sections
VardaValar1: The splash page and the index page both have the Links link, so np
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ArPharazonV: Aiya
TurgonjustTurgon: yes, but not used to that page, was just checking on the splash page or the other one if not the one meant :-)
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Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Gil-galad : )
HearNoEvil80: Aiya...sorry I missed the meeting....too many emergencies going on *sigh* running around ragged heh
ArPharazonV: I just found it on both pages... but no problem
TurgonjustTurgon: oh well, good has come from an already known link tho :-)
VardaValar1: The splash page is the short one,
TurgonjustTurgon: the other one then :-)
VardaValar1: Know that feeling, Hear : )
ArPharazonV: ah, I found it first on the 'other' page
TurgonjustTurgon: anyways, I think this about concludes our little linkage stuff :-)
ArPharazonV: big headline at the bottom 'more links'
ArPharazonV: well, ok
ArPharazonV: new topic!
VardaValar1: Pardon, many windows were open

TurgonjustTurgon: Tolkien!
VardaValar1: Turgon, you have a topic?
TurgonjustTurgon: uh... nope...
ArPharazonV: well, Dale has been handled in the premeeting... so I don't have one either
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
TurgonjustTurgon: well, maybe one....
VardaValar1: Welcome back
VardaValar1: What one, Turgon?
TurgonjustTurgon: the fate of Hurin and Huor coming to Gondolin
VardaValar1: What about them?
Eonwe Valar: thanks,.. seems I hit the close button rather than the minimize button
VardaValar1: oopsie : )
ArPharazonV: well, there goes that transcript ;-)
VardaValar1: I still have mine
TurgonjustTurgon: well, too long since I read that part, but for what I can remember, it seems as if their fates and their families were sealed after coming to and departing Gondolin
VardaValar1: And what question do we address?
TurgonjustTurgon: whether or not that was the case
VardaValar1: Could you state the question in one line?
VardaValar1: I'm getting lost : )
TurgonjustTurgon: excuse me if I am a bit sketchy, but usually when I have a topic, I have a couple things in my mind already I want to address, and this one was straight from my thoughts :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: ok, here comes:
VardaValar1: np
TurgonjustTurgon: Huor and Hurin were lost in the wilds after some battle (I think) and they were picked up by the Eagles and brought to Gondolin
TurgonjustTurgon: when they returned, they wore the garments of princes
TurgonjustTurgon: and even though they already were lords among their people, it seems as if their coming to Gondolin sealed their and their families fates
TurgonjustTurgon: Hurin as Morgoth's most hated enemy and the doom that befell Turin
VardaValar1: The clothes did give away the existence of Gondolin, good point
ArPharazonV: well, from what I know, Hurin also revealed the location of Gondolin to Morgoth... or at least the general area
VardaValar1: People wondered why they were in such great shape after being lost in the wilderness
TurgonjustTurgon: and Huor for his son Tuor, chosen by Ulmo to bring to Turgon his message of Doom
VardaValar1: Aye, Hurin did call out to the people of Gondolin, giving away the general area
VardaValar1: Took Maelin to make it specific
TurgonjustTurgon: aye
VardaValar1: Maeglin
ArPharazonV: being descendants from Hador, they already were heirs to the house of Men, and leadership of Hithlum...
TurgonjustTurgon: but as far as I know, Hurin was not hated by Morgoth until the Nirnaeth
VardaValar1: *looks around for all those dropped letters*
VardaValar1: That's when he foiled Morgoth, aye
TurgonjustTurgon: true, Pharazon, but that's why I bring this up
VardaValar1: Kept him from taking Turgon
TurgonjustTurgon: it seems as if their fates didn't begin to unfold after their visit to Gondolin
ArPharazonV: I hardly think that they would have given any less resistance to Morgoth had they not visited Gondolin...
TurgonjustTurgon: probably not, but that is not the point
TurgonjustTurgon: the point is their fates, not their resilience
ArPharazonV: but their fates did rely on their resilience...
TurgonjustTurgon: only partly
ArPharazonV: their defiance and resistance of Morgoth made them his enemies, regardless of their knowledge
TurgonjustTurgon: but would Tuor have come to Nevrast seeking for signs of Turgon and thus find the hauberk left by Turgon on Ulmo's council if it hadn't been for Huors visit?
ArPharazonV: I think that fate had been decided already, and it was not like Tuor was guided by his father
TurgonjustTurgon: would Morgoth have noticed the family of Hurin any more than he would have of say, the people of Brethil if Hurin didn't have knowledge of Gondolin
ArPharazonV: how did Morgoth know Hurin had knowledge of Gondolin anyway?
TurgonjustTurgon: spies
TurgonjustTurgon: and a good mind aside from that
TurgonjustTurgon: he was Vala after all
ArPharazonV: in that case, it could well be that Morgoth only chose Hurin because he knew he knew the location of Gondolin
ArPharazonV: and no, that's not a typo.. I said he knew twice
TurgonjustTurgon: I get the drift :-)

VardaValar1: (I sent Beren a PM in the Forum about the Lore Book)
ArPharazonV: oh, btw, Varda...
ArPharazonV: how many PM can you have in storage?
TurgonjustTurgon: dunno, I got over 40 there
VardaValar1: Don't know. Turgon or Eonwe, do you know?
ArPharazonV: oh, good... I had 8, and was worried if I could still receive any
VardaValar1: I currently have 40
TurgonjustTurgon: I can check the proboards main page for exact numbers if you like
VardaValar1: That would be helpful
ArPharazonV: seeing as the War3 forum and WoW forum have a maximum storage of 5, I was worried about reaching the maximum...
TurgonjustTurgon: 46 messages at this point
GwaihirValar: I think the one other forum I'm a member of has a peak of 50(but I could be wrong)
ArPharazonV: but if you guys have 40+, I won't have to worry for a long time... that's a relief
VardaValar1: To PM someone, you can click on his name and it takes you to his profile, and that gives a spot at the bottom to PM from
VardaValar1: If he has no posts, you can go to the Members page and do the same thing by clicking his name. Even if he does have posts. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I've got over 100 PMs so I wouldn't worry too much :}
TurgonjustTurgon: well, it could very well be that admins have a higher number of max PM's, but not sure on that, and I would doubt it
VardaValar1: yay!
VardaValar1: I delete some of mine now and then
ArPharazonV: if you could check out the exact number for regular members, I would be very happy
VardaValar1: If you can check, Turgon, that would help us
Eonwe Valar: I don't think there's a way to do it through the board
VardaValar1: I don't see a place t o check on the board, but maybe the site for making boards
GwaihirValar: I don't know that admins WOULD have a max...
VardaValar1: I think we ended our previous Tolkien discussion :-)
GwaihirValar: I mean on the more active boards the admins get as many pms as Varda gets e-mails ;-)
VardaValar1: *gasp*
VardaValar1: I already use three accounts to handle emails : )
FarmerMaggotV: heh
VardaValar1: and check all three just about daily
FarmerMaggotV: I hate email
VardaValar1: Gmail is good about putting the spam out of the main mail. Very nice
ArPharazonV: sorry to bring it up, we could resume the Tolkien topic afterwards
VardaValar1: A new one from LotR would be good : )
VardaValar1: Everyone has read it or they would not be in the guild
ArPharazonV: or the hobbit? you know, the one I reread most recently? ;-)
VardaValar1: That would be good too : )
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ArPharazonV: oh, right.. concerning the hobbit (pun not intended).. I have a question about Mirkwood
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FarmerMaggotV: Sorry to intrude, but this was funny: AMAZING BUT TRUE ... If all the salmon caught in Canada in one year were laid end to end across the Sahara Desert, the smell would be absolutely awful.
Eonwe Valar: OK, write a one-page dissertation on the nature of the Palantiri. Oh wait, that sounds likea homework assignment,.. ;}
VardaValar1: They would dry out : )
VardaValar1: Just one page?
ArPharazonV: well, here it goes, anyways...
Eonwe Valar: 10 page? 100 page? :}
ArPharazonV: I was wondering about Thranduil's halls
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ArPharazonV: where exactly are they located? what direction is the gate heading into?
ArPharazonV: if they, like I seem to interpret from the hobbit, are lying eastwards, I think I made my posts in the RP wrong...
VardaValar1: I've just been handed a bucket of links to work on
TurgonjustTurgon: ok, just posted a request for the number on the proboards site, should have an answer soon
Eonwe Valar: there may have been multiple gates, as would be typical of a castle
VardaValar1: They should have had the info available. Maybe they will after the request. Thanks for your trouble, Turgon
ArPharazonV: no, I think there were only 2 gates in the halls, at least at the time of the hobbit
ArPharazonV: 1 was the main gate
ArPharazonV: the other was the barrelgate
ArPharazonV: both lay to the east...
ArPharazonV: I think, after reading that chapter
VardaValar1: A giant gate often has a small gate next to it, for minor errands. But saw none mentioned in Tolkien
ArPharazonV: yes, it is stated in the hobbit that the only exit besides the main gate was the water-gate...
ArPharazonV: and believe me, poor old bilbo had plenty of time to check it all out :-)
Eonwe Valar: What does Tolkien know about Mirkwood's gate? :}
ArPharazonV: still, I think after this, that the gate used in the RP lay to the east, which could work less easily with my posts...
VardaValar1: Just sort of squinch your map around on the table...
ArPharazonV: lol... perhaps it can still work
Eonwe Valar: the main gate appears to be facing west
Eonwe Valar: since we're coming from the west, we're ok
ArPharazonV: I thought it was facing east...
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Eonwe Valar: I'm using Atlas of Middle-Earth
VardaValar1: Don't think when you can look it up :-)
VardaValar1: Those books are not always accurate, beware
ArPharazonV: looking it up now, in barrels out of bound
ArPharazonV: *bond
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Eonwe Valar: Since we're on the Forest Path, and that leads to Thranduil's halls, it's likely that will lead to the main gate
ArPharazonV: wait a sec...
ArPharazonV: perhaps I'm confusing the main gate with the main mouth...
Eonwe Valar: but it's a Revised Edition,.. It's gotta be perfect :}
ArPharazonV: lol
ArPharazonV: but anyway, if I look at the map, the halls seem to be on the eastside of the mountainrange
ArPharazonV: but... if you guys are convinced the gates are on the westside, I'm happy...
ArPharazonV: problem solved for the rp
VardaValar1: I haven't looked it up. Repairing the buckets of links folks are telling me about : )
ArPharazonV: now I still have to come up with a new post for the rp... I can't really decide how to continue my little quest... but I think it's about time
VardaValar1: Heard about the latest anniversary edition coming out of LotR? It's supposed to have even more corrections from Chris, near perfect
ArPharazonV: did you, in the rp, actually get my letter yet?
ArPharazonV: hey, sounds cool
ArPharazonV: anniversary... 50 years, I would guess?
VardaValar1: I'll bet it will be hardback and expensive. Hope they have a cheap version
Eonwe Valar: Hmm guess I better get a new copy of the current Hardback version soon then
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Eonwe Valar: As for Calion's letter, I was problably going to recieve it in my next post
Eonwe Valar: still don
Eonwe Valar: 't know what Auros is going to do about it yet, though
ArPharazonV: I advice you to join me on my quest! It'll give you something to do while you're in town, and I won't be so lonely ;-)
ArPharazonV: *advise
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: if not, I'll try to finish it as quickly as possible.. I don't want to be left behind
ArPharazonV: shall I spill the details here? I'm tired of keeping it bottled up
VardaValar1: You could put it in the rp?
ArPharazonV: yeah, allright...
Eonwe Valar: If Auros has to go chasing you down, he's not going to be pleased :}
VardaValar1: We are trying to do something in town
VardaValar1: We are trying to report to Thranduil, collect more warriors, and head for Erebor
ArPharazonV: I'll go on my mission alone, then... and lose the letter-style
ArPharazonV: but I'm afraid that post will have to come tomorrow... I'm going to bed now
VardaValar1: You need to stick with the group when possible
VardaValar1: Sleep is good :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Try to stay with us
TurgonjustTurgon: now is it Varda?
VardaValar1: in the rp
VardaValar1: Irmo is a nice guy, yes : )
TurgonjustTurgon: sleep is a big waste of time in my eyes
ArPharazonV: I cannot walk away from this... I initiated a new part for me, which has to be fulfilled.. I don't want to lose my brother :-)
VardaValar1: Irmo, don't listen!
TurgonjustTurgon: but then again, can be pleasant :-)
VardaValar1: Phar, does not have to be long
VardaValar1: Can catch up with us again
ArPharazonV: yes, allright... and you can 'fill me in' when I catch up... of course I'll continue reading your posts
VardaValar1: Your story arc needs to have to do with the main story
VardaValar1: Try to work it in
VardaValar1: Maybe your arc will find something Auros really must know
TurgonjustTurgon: already gave him that info :-)
ArPharazonV: yes, Turgon did that... and I gladly accepted it
VardaValar1: Cool then
VardaValar1: I'm looking forward to reading it
ArPharazonV: it'll bear relation to our quest, as I said in the letter ;-)
ArPharazonV: btw, turg... your question has been answered... partially
VardaValar1: Sleep well : )
ArPharazonV: in the forum
Eonwe Valar: How are we going to do the meetings with Thranduil? no real order's been set. Should emissaries go first, or Thranduil's own people?
ArPharazonV: the main proboards support forum, that is
VardaValar1: I had originally intended all of us going together
VardaValar1: but then you mentioned separate meetings
VardaValar1: Figured if it was something secret, us extras could be dismissed from the throne room
Eonwe Valar: I would think he'd meet us each alone
VardaValar1: Ok, but why?
ArPharazonV: oh well, luckily I won't have to be troubled by that problem ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon: perhaps to hear out things that others are not supposed to know?
VardaValar1: That's when the rest of us could be dismissed
VardaValar1: Keep from repeating the same info, or maybe he'd like that to confirm each report
VardaValar1: ok. I would expect Auros to go first then
Eonwe Valar: That would be like "Ok I've seen you, now stand in the hall while I talk with him, then I'll talk with you."
VardaValar1: A messenger could be sent for each
ArPharazonV: I wonder what you people are going to say about the wolf ;-)
VardaValar1: I was going to escort the group to Thranduil
Eonwe Valar: It just seemed more likely a king would see each person separately, especially those bearing messages
TurgonjustTurgon: or the beard-dude :-)
VardaValar1: So do we all hang out in a lobby or wait for a messenger?
TurgonjustTurgon: remember, Estarion still has no clue what a dwarf is :-)
Eonwe Valar: to me anyway,.. maybe my "kingly" thoughts are unconventional :}
VardaValar1: Kings tend to have a lot of people in the throne room at the same time
VardaValar1: but would dismiss them when something secret comes up
VardaValar1: Kind of a line
VardaValar1: courtiers and guards hanging around
VardaValar1: It's a general court
ArPharazonV: well, Namarie... I'm saving the transcript now
VardaValar1: Most of us don't have anything secret, just telling about the baddies showing up in Mirkwood
VardaValar1: Thanks Phar
VardaValar1: Namarie
Eonwe Valar: sleep well Phar
ArPharazonV: thank you
VardaValar1: I've been to quite a few courts
VardaValar1: The sheer number of people a king has to see means the place tends to be pretty full
ArPharazonV: here it comes!
ArPharazonV: check the mail!
VardaValar1: *dodges*
VardaValar1: It made it to the sbcglobal account
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar
ArPharazonV: np
Orodreth V: I'd send my transcript..but I'm too lazy to edit out the old meetings.
ArPharazonV: until next time, everybody!
VardaValar1: I do each one separately
TurgonjustTurgon: remind me to add the attachment when I send the transcript this time :-)
GilraenV: namarie
VardaValar1: That would help, Turgon : )
VardaValar1: Namarie
ArPharazonV: did I add the attachment?
TurgonjustTurgon: I'm not going yet
TurgonjustTurgon: too much to do in my online game yet
ArPharazonV: buhbye...
VardaValar1: yes, I see a paper clip
ArPharazonV: ah, ok
ArPharazonV has left the room.
Orodreth V: I should go through my laptop and see how many meetings I've got logged on there.
Orodreth V: If I ever recover my old comp's hard drive... o.0
VardaValar1: might give you more gaming space : )
VardaValar1: ouch
Orodreth V: Ext files, psh.
Orodreth V: *text
VardaValar1: hehe
Orodreth V: 1.17 mb on my laptop.
Eonwe Valar: anyway, so shall we be meeting Thranduil together?
Orodreth V: But that's only about every other metting feb - august.
Orodreth V: Well, there is all the aftermeeting stuff.
VardaValar1: Thought you wanted it separate. Now I'm confused
VardaValar1: If meeting together, I'll come to get you guys
VardaValar1: Are you and Haran ready?
VardaValar1: You were talking
GilraenV: Namarie all
VardaValar1: Namarie, Gilraen!
Eonwe Valar: that's what I'm trying to get decided :}
GilraenV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Didn't want to break up that talk. Was important to the story, it seemed
VardaValar1: When we get to the Ring part, we can have everybody cleared from the room but Thranduil, you, and I guess Haran
VardaValar1: The chat needs to decide if you and Haran stay together in the room
Eonwe Valar: Haran and I were talking, aye. Seems that was over. At most was going to pin Estarion's story down and then get angry when Auros recieved Calion's letter.
VardaValar1: Ah, so you can put in that you receive Calion's letter
VardaValar1: Then I can come and get you two and Estarion?
VardaValar1: I'm presuming you guys had a chance to clean up like Fainan did
Eonwe Valar: Aye, was deciding if I'm going to charge after him or not. But if Thranduil is ready, that could dissaude me from leaving.
Orodreth V: Feb 22 to Aug 22 on my laptop, but that's not every meeting.
Eonwe Valar: Well, not really :}
VardaValar1: Want to charge after him? I can come looking for you after you charge
VardaValar1: Oro, do you have some not on the News?
VardaValar1: If so, could you email them to me?
Orodreth V: Uhh.
Orodreth V: I might.
VardaValar1: Just when you get the chance, Oro
VardaValar1: It's very likely
Orodreth V: I can look now, nothing better to do.
VardaValar1: Please send them separately :-)
VardaValar1: *feels email bomb coming*
Orodreth V: You know of any off the top of your head that you don't have?
FarmerMaggotV: hehe
VardaValar1: A quick run through of the News should show
VardaValar1: We missed one fairly recently
VardaValar1: We have our candy ready by the door and Bilbo is set as first distributor
FarmerMaggotV: wow, it helps sooo much to have the ethernet cable plugged in to get on the net :P
VardaValar1: hehe - I'll bet!
FarmerMaggotV: I coulda sworn I plugged that in earlier
VardaValar1: Reasons to never swear ;-)
FarmerMaggotV: heh
Orodreth V: Blah.
FarmerMaggotV: I probably got down there, plugged in one comp, and forgot what I was doing and got up :P
Orodreth V: Trick or treating around here is stupid.
GwaihirValar: Have any of us here played the playstation game 'Azure Dreams'?
Orodreth V: We have people from miles away driving around to get candy.
VardaValar1: Get a ton of candy here if you do
Orodreth V: We gave up a few years ago.
Eonwe Valar: There is no trick or treating around here, amazingly
VardaValar1: Mostly just people who live around here or know us, which is plenty
GwaihirValar: other than myself, of course
Orodreth V: Sept 5th.
Orodreth V: Looking now.
Eonwe Valar: Gwaihir's played Azure Dreams :}
GwaihirValar: lol
VardaValar1: People are more cautious now about trick or treating
TurgonjustTurgon: no trick or treating here either
VardaValar1: Thanks Oro
Orodreth V: Nope, lost net before then.
VardaValar1: We are in a quiet neighborhood
VardaValar1: Thanks for checking
VardaValar1: Eonwe sent me one a couple of times but it didn't make it and then his hard drive died horribly
VardaValar1: Morgoth undoubtedly involved
TurgonjustTurgon: although nov. 11 we have "Sint Maarten" (or st. Martinus) which goes for just about the same as Halloween, except for the dressing up part and instead with lanterns
FarmerMaggotV: anyone here up for some BZFlag?
Orodreth V: April 4th looks like no transcript but everyone moved to, I was prably a sleep, lemme see.
VardaValar1: That would be why. We had one AIM meeting that lagged frightfully. The rest have been good
FarmerMaggotV: oh yeah, I remember that
FarmerMaggotV: was about a 3-10 sec lag
VardaValar1: Right, more for some of us
Orodreth V: I had none, if I remember correctly.
Orodreth V: My log goes from 15:24 to 16:01, so it's just talking about leaving, no actual meeting.
FallenGlory: I've gtg all, good ol' homework. Have happy halloween.
FallenGlory has left the room.
VardaValar1: Okie dokie, not worth it then
VardaValar1: Belated namarie
VardaValar1: Looks as if names in the Encyc that were moved around all changed links automatically. Ick
Orodreth V: Ok, got nothing more on ym laptop.
Orodreth V: I've got nealry a year's worth on my old comp, so I'll see.
Orodreth V: ..if it's ever fixed.
VardaValar1: :-)
Eonwe Valar: can't believe it's only 6:30ish
VardaValar1: I hope it gets fixed soon
VardaValar1: It's not to our bodies
Orodreth V: I wasted my extra hour spaming up people and doing research for my essay.
FarmerMaggotV: ok, over here I guess :P
Orodreth V: Instead of sleeping, like my body needs.
FarmerMaggotV: heh
VardaValar1: Research for essay sounds good
FarmerMaggotV: I hate doing essays :/
VardaValar1: Gives you a chance to comment
VardaValar1: Could do an article on Farmer Maggot
FarmerMaggotV: well, school assigned essays.... I like to make it short, simple, and to the point :P
FarmerMaggotV: I've been meaning to do that too heh
VardaValar1: I can't see why JRRT called him Maggot
VardaValar1: unless to help make him sound villainous for Frodo
VardaValar1: : )
FarmerMaggotV: depending on his pronunciation
VardaValar1: Farmer is a nifty hobbit, interesting character
VardaValar1: guess so
VardaValar1: Might look up the pronunciation guide in the books and see
VardaValar1: Maybe I should put it online, not very long
FarmerMaggotV: that stuff copyrighted?
VardaValar1: yes
VardaValar1: I would have to be careful
FarmerMaggotV: I don't see why that stuff isn't like ROMS
VardaValar1: It's so short, probably be ok
FarmerMaggotV: heh
FarmerMaggotV: best to not go making assumptions -- but this does pose an interesting question
VardaValar1: Long blocks of text are what are considered not to be fair use
VardaValar1: I can just leave it
FarmerMaggotV: you make the text into an image, it is no longer the content
VardaValar1: It can no longer give royalties to the author
VardaValar1: Fan fic can be a problem for living authors too
VardaValar1: The fans gripe that the author's new book stole things from their fan fic
FarmerMaggotV: ah
FarmerMaggotV: yea
FarmerMaggotV: similiar things in the developer communities (espicially with Apple)
VardaValar1: Or the author drops a story because a faintly similar treatment is online
VardaValar1: and that destroys a much better thing we could have read that would have been canon.
FarmerMaggotV: A shareware developer has some cool ideas, Apple integrated a few, the shareware dev complains.....
VardaValar1: Aye
FarmerMaggotV: but usually, the shareware is still superior
VardaValar1: But ideas can come logically from the same place separately
FarmerMaggotV: right
VardaValar1: Happens all the time with inventions
FarmerMaggotV: the telephone
FarmerMaggotV: :D
VardaValar1: Ouch if the shareware is superior
GwaihirValar: well... isn't that the way programming is... one person comes up with it, posts it, everyone else takes what snippets they want, and uses them how they will... that's the way I've always seen it
VardaValar1: Tons of them. Reason Nobel prize sometimes is shared
FarmerMaggotV: well, it serves a particular purpose usually and does it well
FarmerMaggotV: yeah, or even just UI concepts
VardaValar1: When a person is making his living at something, it begins to matter very much
FarmerMaggotV: yea
FarmerMaggotV: how long do copyrights last?
FarmerMaggotV: on literature
GwaihirValar: Well, the main thing is, that's why it's shareware... it's NOT being used for profit
VardaValar1: Why should we assume creators do not deserve paid for efforts and discourage them?
GwaihirValar: it's just something the person came up with in their spare time that can make life easier...
Eonwe Valar: Shareware actually can include a fee
Eonwe Valar: as I recall
VardaValar1: Lifetime of author plus 50 years
FarmerMaggotV: shareware is usually feeware
VardaValar1: Shareware can include a fee
GwaihirValar: I've never seen shareware that included a fee...
VardaValar1: it can be donations
FarmerMaggotV: at least, as far as I've seen
Eonwe Valar: or it's a trial/free version that can be upgraded with a fee to a better version
VardaValar1: Donations are for shareware
FarmerMaggotV: that's usually reffered to as donationware; and free as freeware
FarmerMaggotV: :D
Eonwe Valar: freeware is typically free, hence the name :}
VardaValar1: aye : )
FarmerMaggotV: and there's nagware, which is a form of donationware
VardaValar1: Freeware tends to be a hook or to be used on a resume
Eonwe Valar: I've see nshareware that asks for a "donation"
FarmerMaggotV: :P
VardaValar1: nagware : ) Good way to put it
VardaValar1: If you like this, please show your appreciation with a donation
VardaValar1: Not a bad idea
FarmerMaggotV: freeware can also be the typical hacker type "I needed this and created it. Your mileage may vary"
Eonwe Valar: I had a zip program that did that,... couldn't use it after a while,..
VardaValar1: Or like Cute, that adds ads after a while if not paid after a certain number of uses.
Eonwe Valar: did the "send so much to register" thing
FarmerMaggotV: ah, nagware usually just as a message when it starts or pops up a message after so long, but it doesn't force you to donate
Eonwe Valar: yeah, think it was Cute, so I take back the zip file thing :}
VardaValar1: afk for short time, must grab food and return
Eonwe Valar: Cuteftp did it to me, reason I went to WSFTP
FarmerMaggotV: hm.. I like CoreFTP
FarmerMaggotV: never used WSFTP though
FarmerMaggotV: Eonwe: You have any exp. w/ Unix or Linux?
Eonwe Valar: very little
FarmerMaggotV: ah heh
Eonwe Valar: and only because I have to use it for accessing my cs stuff
FarmerMaggotV: I'm switching my server over to OpenBSD on an older machine..... should be faster cuz I'll be using an IDE HDD instead of a USB (1) one and it'll be a dedicated server
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
Orodreth V: My problem is that Ihave no mone whatsoever.
FarmerMaggotV: I have no money either :P
Orodreth V: And can't get a decent job for two years.
FarmerMaggotV: school's been giving their old hardware away
FarmerMaggotV: and I bought an old comp from a friend for 25 bucks
Orodreth V: Can you please will me your possessions? I'll strangle you quickly, honestly. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: must be really realyl old or you must have a really really nice friend :}
FarmerMaggotV: 10 years old
FarmerMaggotV: :P
Orodreth V: This comp isn't worth $50.
FarmerMaggotV: but it was a top of the line for the time: 200MHz
Eonwe Valar: 64 megs RAM?
FarmerMaggotV: nah, came with 16
FarmerMaggotV: but I upped it to 64
Eonwe Valar: hehe
FarmerMaggotV: friend had extra RAM
FarmerMaggotV: (another friend)
Eonwe Valar: EDO or Sync D?
FarmerMaggotV: no clue :P
Eonwe Valar: Bah, lightning and thunder, may be going soon
FarmerMaggotV: heh
FarmerMaggotV: if you add up all the MHz in the room it's about 766MHz :P
FarmerMaggotV: any winperson here know what app to use to make floppies of .fs files and .dsk files?
VardaValar1: How about drag and drop?
VardaValar1: or copy/paste?
FarmerMaggotV: I don't think that'd work -> .fs files are just 'images' of a floppy
VardaValar1: could try it. Can
VardaValar1: not hurt
FarmerMaggotV: hm... didn't work
VardaValar1: ah well
Orodreth V: I looked at the valar rp awhile ago..didn't get into it
Eonwe Valar: Not enough action? :}
VardaValar1: How do you mean, didn't get into it?
Orodreth V: Just didn't make the time to decide on my char and get his bio and so forth up.
Orodreth V: I might if I don't join Gilaern's RP.
VardaValar1: ah, don't have to be in any rush
VardaValar1: You can be in both
Orodreth V: But 3 major rps is more then enough for me, so it's one or the other.
VardaValar1: We don't post often
VardaValar1: okie dokie
VardaValar1: We're kind of leisurely but we keep it going
Orodreth V: Running my own RP which will have 9 other people, in two semi-dead RPs, in another one with something like 12 people at last count..
Orodreth V: And I swear I do do (most) of my homework.
VardaValar1: Very good. Please do your homework
VardaValar1: Don't get grounded, and learn everything you can : )
VardaValar1: Our rp is not a requirement or to stress anyone, just for pleasure
Orodreth V: ...which is why I'm not going to overextend myself to 30 rps like I did back in 7th grade.
VardaValar1: Good : )
VardaValar1: 30 is way too much
FarmerMaggotV: heh, I try to keep me life as stress and simple free as possible
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: "as possible"
FarmerMaggotV: yeah
VardaValar1: I admit to complicating mine a bit more than necessary : )
Orodreth V: A little exaggeration there, but if I remeber correctly, I was in 3 games/gaming commuities, 3 diplomacy games, and 4 or 5 rps.
Orodreth V: ..course, I didn't have school that year, so..
FarmerMaggotV: I'm active in 3 forums (well, it's declining a lot, Adium is nearing completion and I'm moving away from REALbasic), and I lurk in a forum and a wiki
Orodreth V: I used to spam up 4 or 5 fourms.
Orodreth V: But that was after 7th.
FarmerMaggotV: ew a spammer....
Orodreth V: Well.
Orodreth V: I made quality posts.
Orodreth V: But I had nothing to do so I posted everywhere.
FarmerMaggotV: hm..... you should google for "posting and you" it's a flash movie heh
Orodreth V: Yea.
Orodreth V: I love that thing. :-P
Orodreth V: "With these things in mind, Bobby will have a fun time posting at the forums, won't you Bobby?"
FarmerMaggotV: mhm
FarmerMaggotV: you ever see milk & cereal.swf?
Eonwe Valar: Wow things went quiet in here aweful fast
FarmerMaggotV: oh yah
Eonwe Valar: tornado coming through? eye of a hurricane?
Eonwe Valar: WoW open beta start? :}
FarmerMaggotV: heh, wouldn't know
VardaValar1: Working on links on page for Men
VardaValar1: Gilraen said a lot were bad. Found a few
Orodreth V: Man.
VardaValar1: You guys know that characters without a link don't have an article, just getting a mention
Orodreth V: Seems like old times, I'm chatting on this comp,playing SC on my laptop right next to me.
FarmerMaggotV: :-)
Orodreth V: sinleplayer, but still
FarmerMaggotV: that is the life
VardaValar1: This will be old times later : )
FarmerMaggotV: I remember mad all day long runs of SC and D1
VardaValar1: Way to go, Orodreth
Eonwe Valar: hmm speaking of old times,.. I need to install my LotR volume one from Inerplay on my computer some time :}
Eonwe Valar: *Interplay
VardaValar1: Eonwe, when do you like to play D2X M-e mod?
Eonwe Valar: If I ever manage to find the time again :}
FarmerMaggotV: anyone here play BZFlag?
VardaValar1: I was trying to get the Me mod dl to work. Gamespy kept saying I was logged on but not logged on
VardaValar1: Will try again
FarmerMaggotV: I hate download sites that make you register
Eonwe Valar: Natalya aka Eowyn on the VK board has a site you can get it from as well
FarmerMaggotV: I've gone to p2p and piracy networks to download demos before :P
VardaValar1: V&K used to have dl's avalable on their site, nice and fast
DaeTPringl: Namarie all. I'm tired of sitting on the computer.
FarmerMaggotV: namarie
DaeTPringl: Well, beside the computer.
Eonwe Valar: Namarie Eowyn :}
VardaValar1: I will try again on Gamespy after all that trouble and then try Nat
Orodreth V: Namarie.
VardaValar1: Namarie, Eowyn
DaeTPringl: Namarie. :-)
DaeTPringl has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: a link should be on the Games Page
Orodreth V: I have my laptop on my leg right now.
VardaValar1: aye, I have seen it
Orodreth V: I feel so geeky.
Eonwe Valar: I begin to suspect Interplay might be dead
FarmerMaggotV: heh
FarmerMaggotV: I have a rolling chair (from school), and 2 comps from school...... and one of my parent's comps...... and yea.... I feel so cheap :P
Orodreth V: Interplay..? Wern't they bought out?
Eonwe Valar: don't know
Eonwe Valar: I know Interplay and Black Isles were merged or something a while back
Eonwe Valar: but I haven't visited their site in a long long time,.. went looking for it a couple of weeks ago and ran into problems
ThainPaladinTook has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Paladin
VardaValar1: Happy Halloween
ThainPaladinTook: Aiya!
ThainPaladinTook: you to
Eonwe Valar: Heya Paladin
ThainPaladinTook: hey
VardaValar1: Welcome to the After-meeting
VardaValar1: People who just didn't feel like leaving : )
Eonwe Valar: hmm seems they let their web site die
ThainPaladinTook: what site?
Eonwe Valar: died on 9-27-04, so I guess Interplay really is gone,..
ThainPaladinTook: ah
Eonwe Valar: a shame,.. they put out 2 decent versions of LotR games, even if they didn't finish the trilogy, and despite the additions they made,.. I enjoyed playing both,.. the SNES game was mostly fun because I could kill Nazgul :}
ThainPaladinTook: hmmm, never played the snes version
ThainPaladinTook: brb, dog is running around for some reason...
Eonwe Valar: It's fairly short if you've got maps,.. almost too long if you try to find you way out of some areas without maps :}
Orodreth V: Whoohoo.
Eonwe Valar: but once you hit Moria it's easy to max your characters,.. :}
Orodreth V: I beat the final terran bw mission.
Orodreth V: And killed every zerg anything.
Orodreth V: Took me 3 hours.
Orodreth V: But whoohooo.
VardaValar1: Congrats! : )
Eonwe Valar: then you can swipe their bits of password, put it with an earlier area bit of the password, and kill nazgul if you're careful :}
ThainPaladinTook: back
Eonwe Valar: congrats :}
ThainPaladinTook: congrats, sc is the greatest :-)
Orodreth V: My way of playing BW campaings is generaly this:
Orodreth V: The AI is stupid, turtle and nuke or tank/air if terran, turtle and zeal/goon/whatever if toss and turtle and anything if zerg.
Orodreth V: Never failed me yet.
Orodreth V: I have yet to lose a mission.
Orodreth V: Wait.
Orodreth V: The psi disrupter one for terrain.
Orodreth V: *terran
Orodreth V: where Duran kills Stukov
Eonwe Valar: I puah for carriers in the SP missions for Protoss,.. wins every time :}
Eonwe Valar: *puah=push
ThainPaladinTook: dang, I am way to offensive for all that, I just keep attacking them till they die
FarmerMaggotV: heh
FarmerMaggotV: I usually cheated ;-)
ThainPaladinTook: ahhhhh, the blasphemy!
ThainPaladinTook: :-)
VardaValar1: Eowyn and Sauron need this comp so they can play a LAN game of Civilization together
VardaValar1: You guys have fun : )
ThainPaladinTook: civilization?
ThainPaladinTook: hmm
ThainPaladinTook: i love those games
GwaihirValar: cya
Eonwe Valar: hf :}
VardaValar1: Civilization: Call to Power
VardaValar1: Namarie
Eonwe Valar: take care :}
VardaValar1 has left the room.
FarmerMaggotV: Cya!
FarmerMaggotV: bah, too late
HearNoEvil80 has left the room.
Orodreth V: Ahh, love Kerry giving Mengsk a tounge lashing in the early Zerg missions.
ThainPaladinTook: kerry, lol!
Orodreth V: rofl
Orodreth V: I just realized that.
Orodreth V: Haha.
Orodreth V: Subliminal message, there :-P
ThainPaladinTook: good thing election is almost over, it's so annoying
ThainPaladinTook: get like 10 phone messages a day telling me who to vote for
Eonwe Valar: I assume Kerry = Kerrigan?
ThainPaladinTook: yeah
FarmerMaggotV: yeah, I hope bush is going to be planning his exit november 3rd
Eonwe Valar: ok
Eonwe Valar: I don't :}
ThainPaladinTook: I don't really have a problem with him
FarmerMaggotV: I do: Patriot Act, Guatanamo Bay, Iraq
Orodreth V: ...stupid bug in Zer 2.
Orodreth V: *Zerg 2
ThainPaladinTook: don't start that, you could do that back and forth forever
GwaihirValar: I desperately hope Bush doesn't get in power *sighs*
ThainPaladinTook: people wont stop doing it around me to!
GwaihirValar: back*
FarmerMaggotV: yeah, I've got things to do -> no time for politics
GwaihirValar: I'm terrified of him having 4 more years...
Eonwe Valar: I don't want Kerry in power,..I'm not interested in America losing its sovereignity,.. and we probably ought to leave it there
GwaihirValar: it's such a horrible coincidence... Bush is running in one of the VERY few countries in the world he has a chance to get elected in
ThainPaladinTook: you guys do realize that the president is a very small part of the government right? He can't do anything he wants to like most people assume
GwaihirValar: I realize that, but Bush's foreign policy is gonna cause more wars... and more wars... and more wars
ThainPaladinTook: people don't vote on stuff like senators and such which are just as important
FarmerMaggotV: due to the sheer ignorance of americans?
GwaihirValar: the guy is the biggest warmonger I've heard of since Gengis Khan... lol
GwaihirValar: sp
FarmerMaggotV: np
Eonwe Valar: I remember a guy named Adolf Hilter,.. heard of him?
FarmerMaggotV: Bush doesn't come close to Hitler's brains :P
Eonwe Valar: nobody wanted to do anything about him, just kept feeding him countries until he actually came after them,.. by then most of Europe was under his control
GwaihirValar: I remember him too... but he wasn't interested in random wars. He had a purpose... I don't AGREE with his purpose, but Hitler didn't care about the wars, he had a plan... the wars were an unnecessary part
Eonwe Valar: I'm not talking about BUsh
GwaihirValar has left the room.
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
GwaihirValar: Bah, stupid remote fell on keyboard
FarmerMaggotV: Bush's Erratic Behavior Worries White House Aides
Eonwe Valar: wb
Orodreth V: when I think of the election, I think of AvP:
FarmerMaggotV: USA PATRIOT Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Orodreth V: "Whoever wins, we lose."
GwaihirValar: *laughs*
ThainPaladinTook: SirG3, dont post links cause both sides can post stuff
FarmerMaggotV: yea, but just posting 3 :P
ThainPaladinTook: it just gets annoying after a while
GwaihirValar: My link is just a petition
GwaihirValar: from Canadians to Americans
GwaihirValar: lol
Orodreth V: Man.
Eonwe Valar: No offense, but I don't think any country should be asking or telling another country who they should vote for
Orodreth V: Zerg two is the hardest mission yet.
Orodreth V: Which is sad.
GwaihirValar: Eonwe, when the other country is a superpower
GwaihirValar: I think every country has a right to have a hand in it. Because frankly, who you elect is going to have a huge effect on the rest of the world because you ARE one of the world's superpowers.
ThainPaladinTook: wait a sec..
FarmerMaggotV: I disagree
GwaihirValar: and electing someone with as poor of a foreign policy as Bush....
GwaihirValar: is just going to cause problems
Eonwe Valar: We are still a soveriegn nation. We have the right to appoint our leaders with no interfeence from the rest of the world,.. the same right we grant Canada, Britain, France,...
FarmerMaggotV: still, Bush is the leader of the US not the world
GwaihirValar: if you look at it... 95+% of the world is HORRIBLY against Bush getting into power
GwaihirValar: you've gotta admit, that's a STUNNING ratio there
ThainPaladinTook: or not...
Eonwe Valar: Bush is already in power
GwaihirValar: getting back
GwaihirValar: I mean
FarmerMaggotV: Annon is the leader of the world more or less, and he is chosen by many countries eh?
GwaihirValar: if it were like 60/40... that's no big deal... but 95%?
ThainPaladinTook: it's not 95%....
Eonwe Valar: Annon is the secreatary of the UN,..
GwaihirValar: it's about there
GwaihirValar: if you go by countries
ThainPaladinTook: you have no way to prove it..
GwaihirValar: there were surveys taken in something like 200 countries
ThainPaladinTook: no way they asked a couple billion people
GwaihirValar: Bush would have won in I think... 8 of them
GwaihirValar: somewhere around there
FarmerMaggotV: You go survey every single american, and tell me if he'd get elected ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I hope my rights never depend on the opinions of the rest of the world
FarmerMaggotV: aye
ThainPaladinTook: they already do that sirg3, and it's currently a very close race..
GwaihirValar: lol, Eonwe, I'm not saying we should be able to vote... but in a superpower, we at least have a right to express an opinion
Orodreth V: I still think AvP > you all.
ThainPaladinTook: lol oro
Eonwe Valar: you're not in this superpower :}
FarmerMaggotV: anyways, enough politics
GwaihirValar: No, but we are right next door
GwaihirValar: and we are allied thereto
GwaihirValar: and we're a part of the world that Bush is gonna screw up
FarmerMaggotV: we should sooo invade canada
FarmerMaggotV: ;-)
Orodreth V: Beer!
Orodreth V: ;-)
Eonwe Valar: sure, you can express an opinion :} I think it's a bit distasteful to tell us who we should vote for though
FarmerMaggotV: Hockey!
ThainPaladinTook: bush can't screw up anything by himself, i already said that..
GwaihirValar: I'm merely saying I'm TERRIFIED of Bush getting in power
FarmerMaggotV: anyways, enough politics, eh?
GwaihirValar: back in power*
GwaihirValar: bah
Eonwe Valar: And I'm worried about Kerry getting into power
ThainPaladinTook: the senate, the congress, the supreme court, etc form are government...
Orodreth V: Kerry and his libers in congress can, though! ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I'm not interested in becoming the world's,.. hmm no nice world to put here,..
Orodreth V: The supreme court is going whacko.
GwaihirValar: as far as I've seen and heard from talking to Americans voting on both sides, Kerry doesn't seem that bad
FarmerMaggotV: hm... anyways -> I've got work to do, cya
GwaihirValar: cya!
ThainPaladinTook: i don't know how they can be voted in for life oro
ThainPaladinTook: cya
FarmerMaggotV: don't kill each other :P
ThainPaladinTook: lol
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: I've seen Kerry talk and I've heard his responses on questions,.. I don't like alot of his answers
Orodreth V: If I were 18, I wouldn't vote as a matter of principal, but kinda hope Kerry'd win.
GwaihirValar: however... Bush is an utter idiot, he's a warmonger, he's cocky, and he has no understanding of CONSEQUENCES... from all I've heard about him, his life has been one big ride to him... he does what he wants, and then moves on...
Eonwe Valar: I want my national leaders more worried about what I'm going to say than what some other coutry is going to say.
GwaihirValar: no real consequences
ThainPaladinTook: one of the main reasons I like bush is that sept 11th happened and the country didn't fall to pieces
Eonwe Valar: Well, you get alot of our liberal media into Canada as well
Orodreth V: One of the main reasons AvP still > you all is that both are liars.
GwaihirValar: Eonwe, I'm talking about from what I've heard from informed, intellectual Americans
GwaihirValar: I don't pay attention to the Media
ThainPaladinTook: true oro, that say whatever to get voted half the time
ThainPaladinTook: dang politicians
Orodreth V: Ever heard the phrase "Empty as a campaign promise"?
ThainPaladinTook: hehe
GwaihirValar: it's suitable...
Eonwe Valar: I know of informed, intellectual Americans who will tell you the opposite, Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: I've talked to people voting for Bush too
GwaihirValar: what they say hints at the same things...
GwaihirValar: the consequences thing anyways
ThainPaladinTook: you should say 'congress is a warmonger' not bush is cause he can't declare war without there approval
GwaihirValar: no, because Bush is the one putting forward the ideas
GwaihirValar: he's the one promoting them
GwaihirValar: and he's got some AMAZING liars working for him
Eonwe Valar: so does Kerry
ThainPaladinTook: no, when sept 11th happened they country cried for war and congress passed it because the whole of the country wanted it
GwaihirValar: oh, I know that Eonwe, all politicians do
GwaihirValar: I'm referring to the war on Iraq, Paladin
Eonwe Valar: Looking at the issues, I do not like the stance Kerry is taking on many of them.
ThainPaladinTook: it's an extension of it though
GwaihirValar: the war on terror was fine, I agree with going after Bin Ladin
GwaihirValar: no it's not
GwaihirValar: every tie they thought was there has been PROVEN to have been wrong
Orodreth V: If I recall correctly, didn't Bush try to pull a Vietnam?
ThainPaladinTook: going after dictators isn't bad in my book
GwaihirValar: yes it is
ThainPaladinTook: we are part of the world and I am all for trying to make it better
GwaihirValar: because you're now crippling the people of Iraq
Eonwe Valar: So, after 13 or so UN resolutions, it was not ok to have Saddam expect consequences?
Orodreth V: I blame you all for making Z2 the only mission I've had to restart twice on.
ThainPaladinTook: haha oro
GwaihirValar: Eonwe, Bush did NOT have the UN's right of way
GwaihirValar: to go to war in Irawq
GwaihirValar: Iraq*
Eonwe Valar: I didn't say he did
GwaihirValar: he went to war without approval
GwaihirValar: yet DIDN'T get punished at ALL
Eonwe Valar: There
GwaihirValar: the guy should've been punished for war crimes...
Eonwe Valar: 's also allegations that France took money from Saddam
Orodreth V: US ain't part of the WC trial board.
Eonwe Valar: and isn't it interesting that France happened to be against the war on Saddam
ThainPaladinTook: we are part of the world, we should help countries that need freedom and we have the strength and many countries can't do it themeselves without help
GwaihirValar: I really don't care about France... they aren't a superpower... they don't have a leader who is going to cause world war three...
Eonwe Valar: The cold truth is the UN never would've done anything to Saddam except pass another 7200 resolutions
GwaihirValar: Paladin... you should help countries that ASK for freedom
GwaihirValar: the country obviously didn't want your help
Orodreth V: Still blaming you.
GwaihirValar: if more than half of it is resisting
ThainPaladinTook: no you shouldn't they don't have freedom of speech,l they can't ask for it!
GwaihirValar: and fighting back
GwaihirValar: they've stated their opinion now
GwaihirValar: by fighting back
GwaihirValar: People usually don't WANT change
Eonwe Valar: those are terrorists fighting back
GwaihirValar: not all of them
ThainPaladinTook: militants have, the same people that attacked are country
GwaihirValar: just because they're fighting the US
Orodreth V: All-your-fault.
GwaihirValar: they HAVE to be terrorists
GwaihirValar: that's what is so hilarious about that...
Eonwe Valar: not necessarily Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: they can't be people who just don't like the fact thaty you've INVADED THEIR COUNTRY
Eonwe Valar: ok, terrorists and former Saddam loyalists
GwaihirValar: they immediately become terrorists
Orodreth V: Propaganda, Gwaihir, give the US some credit.
GwaihirValar: lol I know Orod
Orodreth V: Every country who goes to war gos against opresors, rebels, or terriorists.
Orodreth V: Face it, and get over it.
Eonwe Valar: I don't watch CNN so I don't see much propoganda
GwaihirValar: if someone invaded your country and took out your leader, would you fight back Eonwe... if you didn't like the leader?
ThainPaladinTook: dictatorship is not the people's country it is the governments country and they do what they want, not what the people want
Eonwe Valar: my leader isn't oppressing me and killing off my fellow countrymen
GwaihirValar: even if he were
Eonwe Valar: it's my liberal activist judges who are doing that
Orodreth V: Benevolant dicatorship is the best form of government, if anyone was interested.
GwaihirValar: If I lived in Iraq, I would've fought bac
GwaihirValar: k
ThainPaladinTook: not it's not
Eonwe Valar: in my country we are free to argue with our political leaders, and free to replace them if we don't agree with their positions
Orodreth V: What's better?
GwaihirValar: no you're not Eonwe, look at how Bush got elected in the first place
ThainPaladinTook: freedom is better then dictatorship any day
GwaihirValar: he rigged the election
Eonwe Valar: no he didn't Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: yes he did
ThainPaladinTook: ...
GwaihirValar: it was really clever how it all worked out too...
ThainPaladinTook: neither of you can prove that point
Orodreth V: Benevolant dicatorship, f00.
Eonwe Valar: After the election they went back, and there's nonpartisan groups who do say Bush won the election
GwaihirValar: funny Eonwe, how the recounts were in his relative's state...
Eonwe Valar: the only ones I still hear harping on that are the Kerry camp guys
ThainPaladinTook: a good dictator oro....
Orodreth V: Benvolant.
Orodreth V: Not just good.
GwaihirValar: Eonwe, I'm not for Kerry
GwaihirValar: I'm against Bush
GwaihirValar: don't get those confused
GwaihirValar: I think Kerry would make a decent leader, yes, but he's not the ideal choice
GwaihirValar: he's just the only choice in such a pitiful two-party system
Orodreth V: Halleughia, Nader 4 evr!
Eonwe Valar: well, I won't argue on the two-party system
ThainPaladinTook: if someone bombed canada and killed a couple thousand people you might feel different
GwaihirValar: I would NEVER support Bush
ThainPaladinTook: if we just stop it will happen again and again
GwaihirValar: Kerry doesn't plan to stop fighting terror
Orodreth V: ..which we deserve, in my humber opinion, but now I'll get blasted for hating my own country or whatnot
GwaihirValar: he just has a different plan about how to fight it. Not invade EVERY nation in the Middle East
GwaihirValar: for one
GwaihirValar: also, did you ever think about why most of the terrorist attacks were on the US>
GwaihirValar: ?
Eonwe Valar: Kerry plans to ask the world's permission before he blows his nose
Orodreth V: Gwaihir: Bush won't invade Israel
GwaihirValar: the only time other countries REALLY got attacked... were when they supported Bush
GwaihirValar: maybe there's something to that...
Eonwe Valar: everyone hates the US because the US stands by Israel
Eonwe Valar: or that's part of it
ThainPaladinTook: we stand up and fight evil while other countries back down
Orodreth V: Oh @$#^, I opened my mouth.
GwaihirValar: no... everyone hates the US because the US is a nosey little superpower that thinks it can right the world
GwaihirValar: and that it has the right to remake the world
Eonwe Valar: No, that's not us
GwaihirValar: in it's image
GwaihirValar: yes, that's the way the rest of the world sees the US Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: I'm not saying we don't try to spread democracy
GwaihirValar: you can't see it
GwaihirValar: because you're IN the US
Orodreth V: GAH
GwaihirValar: but that's how your country comes over
Orodreth V: AGAIN
ThainPaladinTook: if someone is getting beat on the side of the road and can't defend themselves and you have the strength to save them, should you save them or stand by and watch?
GwaihirValar: depends, what if they don't want your help
Eonwe Valar: Orodreth, no caps please
ThainPaladinTook: ha >oro
ThainPaladinTook: that's not even a sane question
Orodreth V: /me twitches
Eonwe Valar: Gwaihir, I agree on this much : if a nation doesn't want our help, we shouldn't give it
GwaihirValar: it's perfectly sane
GwaihirValar: the person may truly deserve it
Eonwe Valar: I think we do some stupid stuff : like giving money we'll never get back to nations that need help despite the fact they hate us
ThainPaladinTook: they are gonna ask for your help if they getting the #%357 beat out of them
Orodreth V: I've heard Mengsk give his speach 4 times now...
GwaihirValar: no, I'm not saying whether they ASK for hel
GwaihirValar: p
GwaihirValar: but what if you GIVE the help and find out they didn't want it
GwaihirValar: you've just interfered where you weren't wanted
GwaihirValar: that's what you have to consider
GwaihirValar: people don't always WANT the bully to help them
ThainPaladinTook: so I guess we should get rid of all the cops cause that's just what they do...
Eonwe Valar: that's the problem
GwaihirValar: no... the cops are enforcing law... which is needed in a society
Eonwe Valar: if these people see us as the bully, it's usually because their dictator has spent so much time telling them how evil we are
ThainPaladinTook: they are doing just what I said
GwaihirValar: Eonwe
GwaihirValar: the entire world sees you as a bully
Orodreth V: 'cept for Tony Blair
Eonwe Valar: not the entire world
GwaihirValar: most of it
Eonwe Valar: just alot of guys in power
ThainPaladinTook: if they did they would come kill us
GwaihirValar: a lot of the politicians don't
GwaihirValar: but most of the citizens do
ThainPaladinTook: cause they world>US
ThainPaladinTook: the*
Orodreth V: Polticians go with the flow, and are wortles liars. Ignore them at all costs. - some president who I can't remember FDR?
Eonwe Valar: many nations don't have free press,.. they see what their government wants them to see,..
GwaihirValar: what about those nations like Canada nad England
ThainPaladinTook: aka nazi part 'jews are bad' and they believe it
Eonwe Valar: well, I hear you guys are pretty liberal up there
GwaihirValar: most of us 'free nations' think of the US as an arrogant, nosey superpower
GwaihirValar: and, except some of the politicians(blair), we really don't care much for the US as a country
GwaihirValar: I have a LOT of friends in the country, but I really dislike the country as a whole
ThainPaladinTook: for what reasons?
GwaihirValar: the way the US acts.
GwaihirValar: as I said
Eonwe Valar: from what I hear, most "free nations" are pretty liberal too,..
GwaihirValar: liberal by what standard?
ThainPaladinTook: you don't believe in helping your fellow man?
GwaihirValar: perhaps the US is just so far on the opposite side of the cale
GwaihirValar: scale*
ThainPaladinTook: we are trying to do good, cause if someone doesn't evil will spread
Orodreth V:
GwaihirValar: Paladin
GwaihirValar: you are trying to do YOUR definition of good
ThainPaladinTook: not mine
GwaihirValar: as a country
ThainPaladinTook: killing people is bad
GwaihirValar: the COUNTRY'S definiition of Good
GwaihirValar: that's the problem
GwaihirValar: 'treat others as you would have them treat you' is wrong
GwaihirValar: dead wrong
GwaihirValar: it needs to be changed
Eonwe Valar: so,treat them before they treat you?
ThainPaladinTook: helping your neighbor is good
GwaihirValar: 'treat others as they would have you treat them;
GwaihirValar: '
GwaihirValar: is the proper law
ThainPaladinTook: if your neighbor is being hurt you go help them
Orodreth V: That's premption, Eonwe, you should be for that.
Eonwe Valar: there's a flaw in that, because some would have you treat them like gods, and have you die
GwaihirValar: for an example of why the so-called 'Golden Rule' is crap... think about people interested in s&m
GwaihirValar: they ENJOY pain
Eonwe Valar: Why should I be for that?
GwaihirValar: does that mean that, because they want you to hurt them
GwaihirValar: they should hurt you?
Orodreth V: Bush == preemption.
Eonwe Valar: I support doing what you say you're going to do
Orodreth V: Selectivly, but still.
GwaihirValar: Eonwe, did you read my example? that is where the 'golden rule' will lead
GwaihirValar: if it's followed
Eonwe Valar: If you say " you do this, or that will heppen" then when they don't do "this," you better dang well do "that"
GwaihirValar: Just becuase I want to be treated a certain way
ThainPaladinTook: 'help your neighbor' read that rule
GwaihirValar: doesn't mean I have the right to treat others that way
GwaihirValar: because they may not want to be treated that way
Eonwe Valar: love your neighbor as you love yourself is a better rule
GwaihirValar: no it's not... because that's forcing you to love someone. What if it's someone who is truly detestable
GwaihirValar: then you still have to love them
ThainPaladinTook: that's right
GwaihirValar: tha'ts not right
Eonwe Valar: It's called unconditional love
ThainPaladinTook: you should love everyone and try and help them
GwaihirValar: which isn't good, because if you show love to people who abuse you... they'll think they're doing a good thing.
Eonwe Valar: I thought tolerance was what it was all about
Orodreth V: See the warning signs and back out now, Gwaihir.
Eonwe Valar: No, Gwaihir, that's a corruption of the rule
GwaihirValar: Orodreth, I really don't care... I know I don't have a chance against religious American viewpoints...
GwaihirValar: no it's not Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: You can love someone and not agree with them, nor support their actions
GwaihirValar: how can you love someone you don't like.
GwaihirValar: that's lying to yourslf.
Eonwe Valar: I love all of you, but I certainly don't agree with you at all times, nor do I agree with everything you do.
Orodreth V: Can't say I didn't warn you.
GwaihirValar: I'm referring to someone TRULY detestable
GwaihirValar: you'd still love them?
ThainPaladinTook: i don't hate you cause I might not agree with what you do
GwaihirValar: so you loved Saddam?
GwaihirValar: you loved Hitler?
Orodreth V: What's that thing in MP2, the arugment th cleaners have?
ThainPaladinTook: You should love everyone, no matter what they do
GwaihirValar: I've always believed love is a special emotion.
GwaihirValar: How can it be special
GwaihirValar: if it's given to everyone?
GwaihirValar: it becomes worthless then.
Eonwe Valar: that is what unconditional love is about, and sometimes love punishes
Orodreth V: "I understand it, I don't condone it." "It's the same thing." "No it's not." "Yes it is!" "I understand you're an idiot, I don't condone it."
Orodreth V: Sorry for helping them, but I love that.
Eonwe Valar: There are different types of love Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: if everyone loves everyone, love is worthless.
GwaihirValar: I know that
Eonwe Valar: then you should know that fallacies of your remark
GwaihirValar: but still, if you love everyone, your love is completely without meaning
Eonwe Valar: no it is notr
ThainPaladinTook: I believe in life after death and we will allow be judged on how we acted and people like hitler got what they had coming, it's not my place to hate him
GwaihirValar: yes it is...
Eonwe Valar: it means I will help everyone to the best of my ability
GwaihirValar: that's not love, that's being a decent person
Eonwe Valar: it means that I will not play favorites
GwaihirValar: I'll help someone I dislike if they desire it...
GwaihirValar: but I won't LOVE them for no reason.
Eonwe Valar: no Gwaihir, being a decent person is throwing someone a quarter for a phone call
Orodreth V: Paladin, quit cheating by using the supernatural.
GwaihirValar: Eonwe, no...
ThainPaladinTook: i am not cheating
GwaihirValar: that's doing the least possible
Eonwe Valar: love is giving a homeless man a blanket in winter
ThainPaladinTook: are beliefs form who we are
GwaihirValar: yes you are Paladin, because you're bring intangible, unproveable beliefs into it
GwaihirValar: no, Eonwe, that's decency
Orodreth V: I was kidding.
ThainPaladinTook: read what I just posted
ThainPaladinTook: your beliefs make you
Orodreth V: I knew you'd flare up and that Gwaihir would agree.
Eonwe Valar: then why do so many "decent" humans not do this simple act of decency?
ThainPaladinTook: that's why we have discussions like this
GwaihirValar: they're not truly decent
Eonwe Valar: why do so many decent humans treat other people like junk?
GwaihirValar: people aren't all decent, that's the problem.
Eonwe Valar: why do so many decent humans mistreat their employees in multiple ways?
Orodreth V: But I'm waiting for this thing to get going so I can get my marshmellows out.
GwaihirValar: they AREN'T decent Eonwe
GwaihirValar: that's just it
GwaihirValar: if they do those things
GwaihirValar: they aren't decent
Eonwe Valar: but they are, if they giuve a guy a blanket
GwaihirValar: no, anyone can do a decent act
Eonwe Valar: because that's not love, that's decent
GwaihirValar: a kind act
GwaihirValar: it's being decent and kind
GwaihirValar: it's not love
Eonwe Valar: anyone can, but not everyone does
GwaihirValar: everyone can be decent, everyone can be kind
GwaihirValar: doesn't mean they really are
ThainPaladinTook: gwa are you married/dating at all?
GwaihirValar: I'm engaged
GwaihirValar: to a member of this guild, actually
GwaihirValar: lol
Eonwe Valar: afk for a sec, don't let the conversation die
GwaihirValar: Gilraen
GwaihirValar: why?
ThainPaladinTook: if that person commited a crime and then told you about it and never got caught. You would still love them though you may not like what they did right?
Orodreth V: ...lights are off
Orodreth V: no response
Orodreth V: and some idiot is standing at the door, knocking and ringing the bell
GwaihirValar: *sighs* Paladin... that's different. They've earned my love
GwaihirValar: the simple act of being BORN
GwaihirValar: isn't enough to earn love
ThainPaladinTook: It shouldn't be diff though
Orodreth V: sonofa..
GwaihirValar: yes it should
GwaihirValar: love is a SPECIAL emotion
GwaihirValar: should be earned
GwaihirValar: not just given
ThainPaladinTook: the world would be at peace always if everyone loved
GwaihirValar: but it wouldn't be any fun
ThainPaladinTook: we wouldn't need armies anymore
GwaihirValar: we wouldn't have computers without conflict
ThainPaladinTook: i love all my friends and we have plenty of fun
Eonwe Valar: back
GwaihirValar: hell, we wouldn't have METAL without conflict
ThainPaladinTook: we would, just at diff times
GwaihirValar: all of the world's greatest inventions have been spurred by conflict.
Eonwe Valar: Gwaihir, a decnet at is one that does the bare minimum. An act of love is giving it your all.
GwaihirValar: no, Paladin
Eonwe Valar: *decent
GwaihirValar: they'd have no REASON to develop these things
ThainPaladinTook: yes, invention would still go on
GwaihirValar: so they wouldn't
ThainPaladinTook: metal makes like easier
GwaihirValar: Paladin, if everyone had always loved
ThainPaladinTook: we would still make lives easier and gather knowledge
GwaihirValar: none of our inventions would have come to pass...
GwaihirValar: because they were all spurred out of a need to get an advantage
GwaihirValar: our species THRIVES on conflict
GwaihirValar: without it, we have nothing to motivate us.
ThainPaladinTook: if you love someone you would want there lives to be better and people would make things to do just that
Orodreth V: Made me lose a hunter kiler, you all did.
ThainPaladinTook: ha at oro
GwaihirValar: Paladin... really, think about what you're saying...
ThainPaladinTook: i am
GwaihirValar: how? all you're doing is spouting religion...
ThainPaladinTook: if you could make your special person's life better wouldn't you?
Orodreth V: Die @ Paladin
GwaihirValar: yes, because love IS special to me
ThainPaladinTook: people would still think and create things
GwaihirValar: if I loved EVERYONE
GwaihirValar: love would lose meaning
GwaihirValar: because it would lose it's special aspect
ThainPaladinTook: why?
GwaihirValar: because there wouldn't be anything special about it
ThainPaladinTook: i love my friends and my parents
GwaihirValar: so do I, but that's because they're specia
GwaihirValar: l
ThainPaladinTook: should I put them in groups?
GwaihirValar: Love isn't just for ONE person, but it's not for EVERYONE
GwaihirValar: if you love everyone
GwaihirValar: there becomes nothing special about it
ThainPaladinTook: hate is why war and killing happens, cause people don't love
GwaihirValar: Paladin, that's not true
GwaihirValar: GREED is why war happens
GwaihirValar: not hate
GwaihirValar: most wars in history haven't been over true hatred
GwaihirValar: they've been over greed and anger
ThainPaladinTook: no, when sept 11th the american people had hate and wanted to go to war, so we did
GwaihirValar: that was one war
GwaihirValar: actually
ThainPaladinTook: ww1 started with hate
GwaihirValar: technically
GwaihirValar: religion
GwaihirValar: is the cause of most wars
GwaihirValar: if you want to go there
ThainPaladinTook: one man killed another and war happened
Orodreth V: ww1 started with supidity
GwaihirValar: PAladin
Orodreth V: not hate
GwaihirValar: you can name TWO wars in recent history... if you go back past the 20th century
Orodreth V: People often cofuse the two.
GwaihirValar: EVERY war was over territory, resources, or religious differences.
GwaihirValar: wars were NOT over hate, except in the past 100 years
Orodreth V: Which were?
ThainPaladinTook: revolution, we hated the british and what they did
Orodreth V: Religion can == hate
Orodreth V: That's territory/recources
ThainPaladinTook: no..
ThainPaladinTook: that's freedom
Orodreth V: British wqnted ours, we wanted our own.
GwaihirValar: yes Paladin, it was over territory
GwaihirValar: they wanted your territory back
ThainPaladinTook: no we already had it
ThainPaladinTook: we lived on it
GwaihirValar: and you fought back
ThainPaladinTook: we wanted them to stop being oppressors
GwaihirValar: it wasn't hatred at all
GwaihirValar: they were trying to get the territory
GwaihirValar: they didn't hate you
GwaihirValar: they wanted their territory
ThainPaladinTook: no the british 'owned' the territory and we lived on it
Orodreth V: Gwaihir, the Crusades were hatred int he form of religion.
Eonwe Valar: First, gunpowder was created by the Chinese, not for war, but for entertainment. It was corrupted into a weapon
GwaihirValar: you may have fought BACK because of hatred, but the war didn't start over territory
GwaihirValar: yes, that was one
GwaihirValar: Eonwe, that may or may not be true
GwaihirValar: we know it was created by the Chinese
GwaihirValar: in a time when they were relatively peaceful
GwaihirValar: but we don't know it wasn't meant as a weapon.
Eonwe Valar: Second, it's people who hate other people having what they want or hate another's perspective that has caused wars.
GwaihirValar: that's not hate
ThainPaladinTook: they tried to tax us and tell us what we could and couldn't do so we fought back
GwaihirValar: that's greed
ThainPaladinTook: we hated them
GwaihirValar: they don't HATE other people having what they want
GwaihirValar: they ENVY people having what they want
GwaihirValar: know the difference
Eonwe Valar: fireworks doesn't sound like a weapon to me
GwaihirValar: and there is one
TurgonjustTurgon: hey Paladin :-)
ThainPaladinTook: hey
GwaihirValar: Eonwe, they were at peace at the time... so naturally they'd put what they'd invented to another use
Eonwe Valar: careful, Gwaihir, you're about to sounds sure of yourself :}
ThainPaladinTook: that's what i was trying to say the whole time!
Eonwe Valar: and that may lead to arrogance :}
TurgonjustTurgon: I just won 2 FFA's with Orc :-)
GwaihirValar: I'm arrogant sometimes, I admit it
ThainPaladinTook: dang
TurgonjustTurgon: against friends to tell you
ThainPaladinTook: orc are so hard, humans just crush them normally
GwaihirValar: in what gmae?
TurgonjustTurgon: no humans in the games :-)
ThainPaladinTook: wc3
TurgonjustTurgon: first was 2 NE, 1 orc and me
GwaihirValar: if that's wc3... I don't know how you cna say that
GwaihirValar: I've always done best with NE and Orc... agianst all races
TurgonjustTurgon: 2nd was 2 UD 1 ne and me
TurgonjustTurgon: NE and human my best
ThainPaladinTook: i used to love orc but they are to weak vs humans
GwaihirValar: I've never seen that...
TurgonjustTurgon: I can't build fast with orcs
Orodreth V: Ahahahha
Orodreth V: In Z2
Orodreth V: I kept the SCV from being evaced
Orodreth V: By
ThainPaladinTook: bad aa and bad anti casters seriously hurts them
ThainPaladinTook: i wish they would help them in that area
Orodreth V: Loading him into an overlord
GwaihirValar: bad aa?
GwaihirValar: I don't think they have bad aa
ThainPaladinTook: anti air
GwaihirValar: berserkers are quite powerful if used right
GwaihirValar: especially of combined with healing wards
Eonwe Valar: Native Americans had the wheel, but it was considered a toy, not a useful item for work
ThainPaladinTook: healing wards are dead in a sec, anything big weakness
Orodreth V: ...and I now have wasted so muvh time, I'm mined dry
ThainPaladinTook: another*
TurgonjustTurgon: lol
Orodreth V: haha
TurgonjustTurgon: not if you put your healing wards in the middle of your units
TurgonjustTurgon: and bats rock
GwaihirValar: Paaldin... healing wards are easy to keep alive... you put them back so the enemies have to chase them
GwaihirValar: and then you centralize them
ThainPaladinTook: i control my units firing i will kill a war in a sec
TurgonjustTurgon: besides, I had 2 heroes alone whacking the living kazooie out of 5 wyrms
GwaihirValar: they hunt the first ones
GwaihirValar: wasting time
GwaihirValar: losing air
GwaihirValar: then the second one they have to find
ThainPaladinTook: one unit, one unit, dead ward
GwaihirValar: and if you cover it... it's even harder
GwaihirValar: uhh Paladin... if you place the ward at the back and micro your units
ThainPaladinTook: takes one hit
GwaihirValar: it's VERY easy to stop that 'one unit
GwaihirValar: '
GwaihirValar: especially if you have a way of slowing
ThainPaladinTook: like sorc...
GwaihirValar: like an orb of frost
GwaihirValar: I mean of slowing the air
ThainPaladinTook: they humans vs orc is a must
TurgonjustTurgon: that's most definitely true
GwaihirValar: get two tauren casters
GwaihirValar: spam disenchant
ThainPaladinTook: till you lose your mana
GwaihirValar: the second all your guys are slowed, deslow them
ThainPaladinTook: am is to strong
GwaihirValar: the sorceresses will lose mana too, and the sorceresses will still die
GwaihirValar: and if you have a good hero, you can pick off the AM easily
GwaihirValar: ams are so frail
ThainPaladinTook: never had a problem with them
TurgonjustTurgon: not only that, but the taurens will bash through your defenses and kill off your sorcs
GwaihirValar: taurens SLAUGHTER sorcs
GwaihirValar: especially if you keep one haste scroll
GwaihirValar: the second they slow
TurgonjustTurgon: unless they poly
GwaihirValar: you activate it
GwaihirValar: that's what disenchant is for
ThainPaladinTook: knights can hold taurens no problem..
TurgonjustTurgon: yup
TurgonjustTurgon: not really lol
GwaihirValar: PAladin, you walk BY the knights
GwaihirValar: if you have to
GwaihirValar: if they have that many sorcs
GwaihirValar: they can't have many knights
ThainPaladinTook: slow will stop that
GwaihirValar: not with a hastye scroll
ThainPaladinTook: slow is to deadly
TurgonjustTurgon: not with healing wards in the middle of your taurens and bloodlusting like hell
GwaihirValar: you've never seen someone use that item, haven't you?
GwaihirValar: have you*
GwaihirValar: scroll of haste
GwaihirValar: adn bloodlust
TurgonjustTurgon: plus whirlwind
ThainPaladinTook: bloodlust stolen
GwaihirValar: = fast movement
GwaihirValar: LOL
GwaihirValar: so now they have tons of knights
GwaihirValar: tons of breakers
GwaihirValar: AND tons of sorcs
ThainPaladinTook: human casters are to good
ThainPaladinTook: and they are cheap
GwaihirValar: I want to see this magical 150 unit human army Paladin
TurgonjustTurgon: well, to effectively cast slow, you have to have at least 6 sorces
GwaihirValar: to effectively slow/polymorph, you need at least 12
TurgonjustTurgon: to effectively steal, at least a dozen breakers
ThainPaladinTook: how much suppy is that out of 100?
TurgonjustTurgon: that's already 24
GwaihirValar: +10 peasants at least
GwaihirValar: 34
TurgonjustTurgon: plus at LEAST 10 peasants
TurgonjustTurgon: plus 5 for the expand
TurgonjustTurgon: 39
ThainPaladinTook: i meant with the 6 you first said..
GwaihirValar: probably 15 if you have an expansion which you'll need
GwaihirValar: are you JUST slowing Paladin, or slow/morph?
TurgonjustTurgon: still 27
ThainPaladinTook: dont need morph
ThainPaladinTook: vs orcs
GwaihirValar: okay, then 27
TurgonjustTurgon: breakers are 3?
GwaihirValar: you need at least a dozen breakers to efectively steal
ThainPaladinTook: if you go for tauren you will have 2 or 3 at most
GwaihirValar: so 36 more
GwaihirValar: 63
ThainPaladinTook: human casters are tier 2
TurgonjustTurgon: 2 or 3?
TurgonjustTurgon: man
GwaihirValar: breakers are 3
ThainPaladinTook: tauren and bl adn tier 3
TurgonjustTurgon: I had 8 of em
GwaihirValar: Paladin, knights are needed
TurgonjustTurgon: knights tier 3
GwaihirValar: if you want to do that
GwaihirValar: knights are 3
GwaihirValar: otherwise you ain't surviving
TurgonjustTurgon: knights are 4 I think
ThainPaladinTook: you can go rifles before you ever get tauren
GwaihirValar: breakers will die like NOTHING
ThainPaladinTook: they work just fine
GwaihirValar: with breakers as your only front?
GwaihirValar: you're dead
ThainPaladinTook: tier 2 human is really strong
TurgonjustTurgon: it will work in 1v1 Paladin
TurgonjustTurgon: not in FFA
ThainPaladinTook: rifles are to strong cause of healers
GwaihirValar: grunts/disenchanters with a good hero
TurgonjustTurgon: because within 5 mins, I am up to tier 3
ThainPaladinTook: rifles/priests/sorcs is to strong
GwaihirValar: no Paladin, they're not...
TurgonjustTurgon: and within 10 mins, I have a full tauren army
ThainPaladinTook: and can kill a teching orc
GwaihirValar: mind you, I don't 1v1
GwaihirValar: I find 1v1 boring
GwaihirValar: way boring
ThainPaladinTook: true
ThainPaladinTook: i find orc 1v1 my easiest
ThainPaladinTook: people dont learn how to counter
GwaihirValar: not because of ease...
GwaihirValar: it's just not fun...
ThainPaladinTook: the easiest counter is there tier 2 but orcs wont build it
GwaihirValar: too boring
ThainPaladinTook: catapults kill the caster, but they never build them
GwaihirValar: btw, Paladin, if a good orc player uses tier two right, they can purge you to hell... slowing you a lot more than slow
GwaihirValar: ever will
ThainPaladinTook: breakers
ThainPaladinTook: am keeps mana way to high
GwaihirValar: breakers can't steal purge lol
GwaihirValar: I don't think so anyways
GwaihirValar: 'I've never seen it done
ThainPaladinTook: it keeps you from getting bl
GwaihirValar: who do they switch it to?
ThainPaladinTook: if your slowed without bl your not gonna be doing anything
GwaihirValar: are you keeping your rifles in close range?
ThainPaladinTook: they dont
ThainPaladinTook: pults and grunts harrass can kill humans
ThainPaladinTook: rifles take my hits, priests heal them
ThainPaladinTook: politics to wc3, lol
GwaihirValar: I know I can't win
GwaihirValar: Religious Americans
GwaihirValar: are the most unreasonable people in the world
GwaihirValar: I hate to say it
GwaihirValar: other than terrorists, okay
ThainPaladinTook: we have every religon in the world here though, just like canada
GwaihirValar: and they're all WAY overconfident because they're Americans too
GwaihirValar: American + blind religious
TurgonjustTurgon: you know Gwai, not to be too forward
GwaihirValar: I'm sorry, I'm tired and a VERY worried about Tuesday... so I'm being blunt...
TurgonjustTurgon: but love-blind, non-religious Canadian can be the most unreasonable people in the world
ThainPaladinTook: i know aeithests (Sp?),mormons,christians,muslims as friends so I know we have them all
Eonwe Valar: Gwairhir, that's not very open-minded of you
TurgonjustTurgon: atheists
TurgonjustTurgon: you know what?
GwaihirValar: Eonwe, I've never managed to convince a strongly religion American of anything... I've been able to for most other people...
GwaihirValar: and I've backed down when beaten before Turg...
TurgonjustTurgon: let's agree we disagree on the subject, and leave it at that, shall we?
TurgonjustTurgon: ya you have Gwai, I was just kidding :-)
Orodreth V: Turgon: You can't steal my spot.
ThainPaladinTook: we have being doing this the last 40 mins turg :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: your spot...?
Orodreth V: Turgon: Gwaihir and I signed an exclusive contract to agree to disagree.
GwaihirValar: so sorry if I'm not being terribly open-minded on that, but open-mindedness goes away after a while of complete and consistent failure....
Eonwe Valar: it shouldn't, especially when you promote an idela of relativism
GwaihirValar: It does, enough failure will discourage anyone.
Eonwe Valar: their opinions should be as good as yours
ThainPaladinTook has left the room.
GwaihirValar: Eonwe, there are situations where it shows VERY obvious as being the 'hive-mind' mentality of Americans...
GwaihirValar: they can't see it, but I've talked to other people outside the US, and it's ofter fairly obvious
GwaihirValar: I've met a few people within the US who can see it too... but very few
ThainPaladinTook has entered the room.
GwaihirValar: wbn
GwaihirValar: wb*
Eonwe Valar: or maybe because you're outside the US, you can't see how different we are in here
ThainPaladinTook: CRASH!
GwaihirValar: I can see how different you are
GwaihirValar: but there are certain things
ThainPaladinTook: dang comp
Eonwe Valar: and you know, it's not just religious US people who are hard to convince of anything
GwaihirValar: oh, I know
Eonwe Valar: try convincing athiests of anything absolute
GwaihirValar: but ALL religious Americans are unwavering in their convictions
GwaihirValar: they will never be convinced of anything
ThainPaladinTook: my atheist friend is really hard to convince of anything.3
Eonwe Valar: they only thing athiests are absolutely sure on is there absolutely cannot be a god :}
ThainPaladinTook: chat lag!
GwaihirValar: Atheism is a religion in my opinion
Eonwe Valar: but that's an absolute,.. kinda contradictory :}
Eonwe Valar: ah! we agree then Gwaihir :}
Orodreth V: ALL religious people are unwavering
GwaihirValar: A religion is merely a set of beliefs
ThainPaladinTook: not all
GwaihirValar: Everyone is 'religious'
GwaihirValar: Atheism is not an ORGANIZED religion
ThainPaladinTook: i knew a teacher in school who was open to everything
GwaihirValar: and I should change that...
ThainPaladinTook: and just change randomly
Eonwe Valar: uh, it has a standard set of beliefs, Gwaihir
ThainPaladinTook: gotta get food! brb
GwaihirValar: uhh... I'm Atheist to a large extent
Orodreth V: I'd like to note that I am right and you all are wrong.
Eonwe Valar: there's are just different sects and denominations
GwaihirValar: and I can tell you that I have seen no 'standard set of beliefs'
GwaihirValar: ever
GwaihirValar: lol
Eonwe Valar: the one towering belief: there is no god
GwaihirValar: Atheism is just the belief that there is no deity
GwaihirValar: that's the only 'mandate' of Atheism
Orodreth V: ...don't laugh, that's your argument too.
GwaihirValar: there isn't anything else requirement
Eonwe Valar: 2: Since there is no god, then we must have been created by evolution
GwaihirValar: no Eonwe
GwaihirValar: I'm atheist
Orodreth V: No.
Eonwe Valar: 3.) since we are here, we must have evolved
GwaihirValar: and I don't believe in evolution entirely
GwaihirValar: I believe it has it's points
GwaihirValar: and that species DO evolve
GwaihirValar: because we've proven that
Orodreth V: no need to belive in evolution to be a athiest
GwaihirValar: but I don't believe that everything came from evolution
GwaihirValar: yet I am Atheist
Orodreth V: Or vise-versa.
Eonwe Valar: Well then Gwaihir, congratulations, you are the first atheist I've met that doens't believe in evolution
Orodreth V: Neh.
Eonwe Valar: then how do you explain existence?
GwaihirValar: I believe in Evolution, I just don't believe in Evolutionism. lol
GwaihirValar: I have a LONG explanation for that that I've never managed to explain online...
GwaihirValar: and I've only managed to explain it to two people in person
GwaihirValar: lol
Eonwe Valar: e-mail it to me sometime
GwaihirValar: as I said, it's very tough to explain
GwaihirValar: because I use a lot of gestures
GwaihirValar: lol
Orodreth V: But what it biols down to, is that we're cool and you're not, so shut up. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Was I one of them? I rmeember having this conversation with someone in the GUild before whose name started with a G
Orodreth V: *boils
GwaihirValar: and a lot of really erratic sutff to it
GwaihirValar: I've only explained it to two people in person
GwaihirValar: never online
Eonwe Valar: ok nm then
GwaihirValar: I've tried to a few times online
GwaihirValar: but I can't find the words
Eonwe Valar: the other G would be Gwindor,.. now there's a guy you can't convince of anything :}
GwaihirValar: god I'm so glad he quit...
GwaihirValar: he was pushing me almost too far...
Orodreth V: Paladin: Popcorn?
Eonwe Valar: probably best not to bring up the past :}
GwaihirValar: heh
GwaihirValar: I'm over it, but man that guy had some grudge for some reason against me
GwaihirValar: and I think his overall goal was to get me to quit by any means necessary...
Orodreth V: ...
Orodreth V: I just tried to use the mouse on my laptop
GwaihirValar: lol
Eonwe Valar: You two seemed to have so much in common,.. :} hard to belive you couldn't stand eachother :}
Orodreth V: to click on a button on this screen
GwaihirValar: haha
Orodreth V: Gwai: shush
GwaihirValar: the one guy in this guild I've truly never been able to stand...
Orodreth V: Eeeek.
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, I'd love to hear how you explain existence without God or evolution :}
Orodreth V: almost out of mins.
GwaihirValar: hehe... effectively, WE created it. But that doesn't explain much...
Eonwe Valar: especially since evolution doesn't answer all that much in the first place :}
GwaihirValar: evolution is missing a lot... transition stages, for one
GwaihirValar: they've never found one for humans...
Eonwe Valar: ah, that line of thought's been done before,.. can't remember by what religion
GwaihirValar: My way's a little bit different
GwaihirValar: I've heard a lot of explanations involving a central consciousness and such that created everything...
Eonwe Valar: Gwaihir, even Evolution wasn't different :} You know Greek Philosophers had the same idea?
GwaihirValar: hehe, of course...
GwaihirValar: every idea's been done
Orodreth V: Eonwe: Can you name some in particular?
Eonwe Valar: ok, so you're isn't new, even if we don't know the originator :}
Orodreth V: I'm going greek philosophy second semester.
Eonwe Valar: one sec, I get out my reference material
GwaihirValar: prolly not new... but ya never know
GwaihirValar: it might be new and I'm just insane ;-)
GwaihirValar: I've got Greek, Roman, and Greek & Roman mythology courses next semester
Orodreth V: Gwaihir: No one's contesting that. ;-)
GwaihirValar: man that's gonna get confusing
Orodreth V: I'm doing greek myths this semester.
GwaihirValar: but it'll be fun :-)
Orodreth V: Almost donw with the Odyssey.
Orodreth V: Next year: Roman version of above.
Orodreth V: Year after that: Ren/Classical of the same.
Orodreth V: Then modern for 12th.
GwaihirValar: I have Greek Mythology, Roman Mythology, Greek and Roman Mythology... my 3 courses next semester
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, it would take me a while to find it, but his name starts with an "A"
Orodreth V: Well, I'll see if we're doing him...thanks.
GwaihirValar: so that eliminates... 1% of Greek philosophers? ;-)
GwaihirValar: so many of them start with 'A'
Eonwe Valar: lol
Eonwe Valar: you'll find philosophy interesting,.. keep a guarded mind and watch out for people trying to brainwash you though :}
GwaihirValar: lol
GwaihirValar: I've had more brainwash attempts than I can count ;-)
GwaihirValar: my theories develop as I hear things that make sense to me...
Orodreth V: Grr.
Orodreth V: Can't find my syllabus.
Eonwe Valar: might be Anaximander, which makes him Milesian
GwaihirValar: wow, those names must be hard to remember...
Orodreth V: I know we're doing Archimedes, Plato, Socrates, Elucid, the guy who had the med oath named after him..
GwaihirValar: and I hope I don't have to do any oral work
Orodreth V: And one or two more.
Orodreth V: Greek myth is easy: When in doubt, Zeus was the father.
GwaihirValar: an oral presentation in Greek-things would be easy...
GwaihirValar: *drips sarcasm*
Eonwe Valar: there's 3 of them, Anaximander, Animinies, and another (not the name another, but I can't remember the name :})
GwaihirValar: ya, Anaximander, Aninminies, Another
GwaihirValar: lol
Eonwe Valar: *Anaxinimes
Eonwe Valar: *Anaximenes
GwaihirValar: Anaxinunus?
GwaihirValar: j/k
Eonwe Valar: Thales
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, those are the Milesians, from a little greek colonoy called Ionia, which is today Turkey
GwaihirValar: I see
Eonwe Valar: They'll very likely be in your intro class
GwaihirValar: half-afk... playing wc3 now :-)
Orodreth V: "Don't let the fact that I am three hundred and sixty-eight years older then you, dully our impression of me, young Terran. I can still, how do you Terrans say it... Throw it down with the best of them."
Eonwe Valar: no fair, get back here and chat! :}
Orodreth V: "I stand corrected."
Eonwe Valar: What's that from?
TurgonjustTurgon: StarCraft if I am not mistaken
Orodreth V: BW Zerg 3.
TurgonjustTurgon: I am correct :-)
GwaihirValar: that
Orodreth V: replaying the campaign.
GwaihirValar: 'd be Fenix?
Orodreth V: Yessir.
ThainPaladinTook: back
Orodreth V: Gonna go infest some co-mand centerz.
Eonwe Valar: I forgot I had my WC3 account up
Orodreth V: If you infest all 5, you get the 10K automaticaly.
Eonwe Valar: I noticed Faramir is on, but it won't let me whisper him,..
Eonwe Valar: Could you give it a try Gwaihir? Work in that he needs to e-mail his Gaming info to me? :}
Orodreth V: This is what the Valar Guild is all about.
Eonwe Valar: Which part?
ThainPaladinTook: playing sc and chatting at the same time?
Orodreth V: 5 minutes ago you were at his throat..
Orodreth V: ..that too.
ThainPaladinTook: and then blaming us for your failure
Orodreth V: Yes.
Orodreth V: It's your fault.
ThainPaladinTook: :-(
Eonwe Valar: We have strong beliefs. We realize what we're getting into, and we agree not to let it get in the way of our friendship :}
Eonwe Valar: As long as it's civil, even when we begin to argue our points very strongly, I have no problems whatsoever with debate :}
Orodreth V: All. Your. Fault.
Orodreth V: Well, Gwaihir's and Eonwe's, mostly.
Orodreth V: But you helped.
ThainPaladinTook: no I beat that campaign, so it must be yours
Eonwe Valar: You're welcome :}
Orodreth V: So've I.
Eonwe Valar: btw Orodreth, even in jest, watch the threats :}
ThainPaladinTook: to late, I just shipped off a box of zerglings to oro's house
Orodreth V: He laughed at me. :-(
Orodreth V: I've got an Archon for a friend.
ThainPaladinTook: doesn't matter, suprisingly the cardboard box didn't hold and the zerglings are running loose
Orodreth V: "suprisingly"?
ThainPaladinTook: close enough!
Eonwe Valar: :}
ThainPaladinTook: I think I need to go do some gaming
Eonwe Valar: Hf :}
ThainPaladinTook: better shut this thing off so I am lag free :-)
ThainPaladinTook: cya later everyone
Orodreth V: Later.
ThainPaladinTook has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: and then there were 4 :}
Eonwe Valar: Well, 3 since Gwaihir is gaming :}
Eonwe Valar: and 2 since Orodreth is gaming :}
Eonwe Valar: and 1 since Turgon is gaming :}
Eonwe Valar: and zero since I'm supposed to be programming :}
Orodreth V: I'm gaming SP, so I'm here too.
Eonwe Valar: ok so 2 :}
Eonwe Valar: I can't believe the WC3 group is still at lvl 1 after some 80 odd games
Orodreth V: Heh.
Eonwe Valar: Turgon, Gwaihir, what are your excuses?! :}
Orodreth V: We were at level 2 I thought...?
Orodreth V: I suck, and contributed nothing after the reset.
Orodreth V: That's mine.
GwaihirValar: I haven't been playing lately
GwaihirValar: mostly customs
GwaihirValar: but...
Eonwe Valar: We hoped to organize sometourney stuff, or even training stuff to do, but not alot of people expressed interest
Eonwe Valar: asking the WC3 guys what they'd like to see hasn't helped either,.. did that and got less than 10 responses
GwaihirValar: aye, we tried...
GwaihirValar: heh
Orodreth V: Yet the biggest percentage game is WC3, right?
Eonwe Valar: no
GwaihirValar: d2x prolly...
Eonwe Valar: LoD
GwaihirValar: aye
Eonwe Valar: from those who actually sent in info
Orodreth V: I did. >.>
Eonwe Valar: even counting the WC3 branch as a whole rather than the half who responded, we end up with a tie at very best
Eonwe Valar: I consider the half who responded as actually playing it though
Eonwe Valar: Maybe I should show up Friday nights. Would any WC3 guys be there if I did? and would you be up for a game? :}
Orodreth V: wish I could. :-\
Orodreth V: Wish I could show up at any time, period.
Eonwe Valar: ah yes, you're having problems with running WC3?
Orodreth V: No.
Orodreth V: I have no net conn on my laptop.
Eonwe Valar: well, that's a problem running WC3 :}
Orodreth V: And this peice of scrap metal isn't worth it's weight in air.
Eonwe Valar: Hmm You may find your account is dead when you do log in then,.. thought I should tell you
Eonwe Valar: it's about at the 90 day mark
Eonwe Valar: don't know how long if at all before blizzard clips it
Orodreth V: Yea.
Orodreth V: I'm trying to get to a friend's house to log in
Eonwe Valar: good luck
Eonwe Valar: I hope you can manage it
GwaihirValar: if not, and you have a friend you can trust, you could give him the pw to save account
GwaihirValar: for example, I had Luthien's old password back when she lost access to d2x... so I could preserve her account... but then she told me not to bother lol
Eonwe Valar: Make sure it is someone you can trust, though, if you go that route
Eonwe Valar: we've had enough fun with friends stealing friends' accounts
Orodreth V: Can't.
Orodreth V: Used that password on two things I can't give away.
Orodreth V: That was my first idea.
Eonwe Valar: ah
GwaihirValar: heh I see
GwaihirValar: and of course Gilraen and I have each others passwords(But that's to be expected ;-)
GwaihirValar: )
Eonwe Valar: And to think,.. I never would've known had you not told me,.. :}
Eonwe Valar: You gave GIlraen your password?! Moving a bit fast aren't we? ;-)
GwaihirValar: lol
GwaihirValar: while we were out there, we both logged on regularly as each others accounts on all things
GwaihirValar: hehe
GwaihirValar: while I was out there*
Eonwe Valar: How sweet :} now get her a WC3 cd :}
Eonwe Valar: make her play WC3 :} j/k of course :}
GwaihirValar: her comp barely runs d2x!
GwaihirValar: lol
Eonwe Valar: so it'll even more barely run WC3 :}
GwaihirValar: it means the requirements for wc3... but her comp has problems lol
GwaihirValar: meatS*
GwaihirValar: meets*
GwaihirValar: lol
GwaihirValar: you can tell I'M almost asleep here
Eonwe Valar: :}
GwaihirValar: wow, playing Azure Dreams really takes it out of ya
Eonwe Valar: Well, maybe you should make the ultimate sacrifice,.. give your fiancè your computer! :}
GwaihirValar: why? we'll be living together eventually and we can share it ;-)
GwaihirValar: besides... I can't afford to let this computer anywhere NEAR Emma's sister...
Eonwe Valar: eventually,.. :} and she'll have access to all your accounts,.. doesn't that scare you? :}
GwaihirValar: that would be suicide....
GwaihirValar: she is an idiot, a female dog, and the all around worst person I've ever met....
Eonwe Valar: speaking of sisters, how's yours? you had a cousing that was likea sister or somethign I'm jumbling that was staying with you?
GwaihirValar: she's gone! :-)
GwaihirValar: she's been gone a while now, actually :-)
GwaihirValar: since beginning of Summer
Eonwe Valar: I'll take it congratulations are in order :}
GwaihirValar: yes!
Eonwe Valar: congrats :}
GwaihirValar: thanks
Eonwe Valar: I think the engagement deserves a bigger congrats though :}
GwaihirValar: oh ya, definitely
GwaihirValar: :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: How long have you two known eachother, if you don't mind my asking? Assuming I didn't ask already?
GwaihirValar: hmm...
GwaihirValar: a year and a half - 2 years
Eonwe Valar: wow that's at least as long as you've been in the Guild,..
GwaihirValar: in that range
GwaihirValar: nowhere near it actually
Eonwe Valar: really?
GwaihirValar: it's about half as long as I've been in the guild hehe
GwaihirValar: I remember the guild's FOURTH anniversary :-)
Eonwe Valar: you've been here that long already?
Eonwe Valar: wow,..
GwaihirValar: I was in the fourth anniversary trivia competition
Eonwe Valar: I remember that :}
GwaihirValar: remember? I was your opposition
Eonwe Valar: aye, one reason I remember :}
GwaihirValar: hehe :-)
GwaihirValar: yup, it's been over 3 years
Eonwe Valar: wow, time does fly :}
GwaihirValar: the 23rd will be my 3 year anniversary of being Maia as well as my one year anniversary of dating Emma :-)
Eonwe Valar: My 5th Anniversary is coming up, believe it or not :}
Eonwe Valar: well congrats :}
GwaihirValar: coincidental date, if I do say so myself lol
GwaihirValar: odd that it worked out that way
Eonwe Valar: you two going to celebrate?
GwaihirValar: but I swear it wasn't planned
Eonwe Valar: Not by you, anyway :}
GwaihirValar: If we can afford it, we're gonna spend a night away from my family lol
GwaihirValar: get a night of privacy hehe
Eonwe Valar: she's in England, though, isn't she?
GwaihirValar: she'll be coming out here
GwaihirValar: for a few weeks
Eonwe Valar: ah, cool :}
GwaihirValar: aye
GwaihirValar: :-)
Eonwe Valar: gentleman, my friend, perfect gentleman :}
Eonwe Valar: I'll be sitting here 20 years later telling that to the young-uns of the Guild,.. I can already see it :}
GwaihirValar: hehe
GwaihirValar: I hope the Guild is indeed around another 20 years :-)
Eonwe Valar: We're working on it :}
GwaihirValar: I'm paying for over half of the trip out here because I'm the only one with money :-)
Eonwe Valar: Don't worry, next you'll be buying jewelry at least 3 times a year, flowers, cards,.. :}
GwaihirValar: hehe
GwaihirValar: I hope I can
GwaihirValar: although over jewellery, flowers, and cards... I'll be buying plane tickets and time alone with her lol
Eonwe Valar: lol :}
Eonwe Valar: I would say "only until you two get married" but then comes kids, and you'll still want to be buying thos eplane tickets :}
GwaihirValar: hehe
GwaihirValar: Well, once we get married, house is next lol
Eonwe Valar: aye :}
GwaihirValar: but there're still at least 4 or so years on the married note
Eonwe Valar: What's her degree?
GwaihirValar: she's getting a b.ed specializing in early years
Eonwe Valar: ah cool
Eonwe Valar: you two both freshmen in college?
GwaihirValar: it's funny, she's the opposite of me in that respect... she ADORES kids... I can onlydeal with them for short periods of time hehe
GwaihirValar: well, I'm in what we call 'U2' here... I'm still in my, from a course standpoint, first year at university...
GwaihirValar: but this is coming up on the second year since I started
GwaihirValar: the end of the second year*
Eonwe Valar: hmm,..
Eonwe Valar: so U1 would be like a community college?
GwaihirValar: no, U1 is my university's program for first year university
Eonwe Valar: ok,..
GwaihirValar: it's just basically the introductory courses, experimentation...
Eonwe Valar: I see, sort of,.. so U1 = Freshmam, U2 = Sophomore
GwaihirValar: whatever... lol
Eonwe Valar: Are you going for a PHD or Master's? because 6 total years seems a bit long for a degree plan
GwaihirValar: we don't really use those names up here
Eonwe Valar: I figured as much :}
Eonwe Valar: unless you're also counting time to put some money back
GwaihirValar: just a BCS, however, due to some complications I had to take this semester off and only take a few electives next semester
Eonwe Valar: ah,.. makes sense
Eonwe Valar: Have you taken physics yet?
GwaihirValar: No, I don't like the way my university is doing physics, so I'm not taking it
Eonwe Valar: it's not required for your BCS?
GwaihirValar: nope
Eonwe Valar: lucky lucky you
Eonwe Valar: I have to take it, and the proceeding class
Eonwe Valar: for my BS CS
Eonwe Valar: read that how you will :}
GwaihirValar: I wish I could've taken it... but it's done horribly
Eonwe Valar: but the standard reading is Bachelor of Science in Computer Science
GwaihirValar: aye
GwaihirValar: I just said 'BCS because Bachelor's Degree of Computer Sciences...
GwaihirValar: the first Science is redundant ;-)
Eonwe Valar: aye
Eonwe Valar: well, here we have a BA and BS
GwaihirValar: we have it here too
GwaihirValar: but...
GwaihirValar: I just leave off the first S if the course name explains which
Eonwe Valar: BS gets a higher pay on average, so gues swhich I chose :}
GwaihirValar: like you're not gonna have a BACS
Eonwe Valar: actually ,we do, that was my point
GwaihirValar: Bachelor of Arts in Computer Sciences? not gonna work...
GwaihirValar: oh?
GwaihirValar: really?
Eonwe Valar: we have a BA in CS and a BS in CS
GwaihirValar: that's... wierd...
GwaihirValar: how could you get a Bachelor of ARTS in Computer Sciences...
GwaihirValar: hmm...
GwaihirValar: oh,but I was wrong, I don't have the Greek Mythology course next semester
GwaihirValar: I have a Roman Culture course and a Greek and Roman Mythology Course
Eonwe Valar: the BS requires more knowledge of math and science, hence more classes and more trying to fit things into my brain :}
GwaihirValar: not the Greek one
GwaihirValar: ah I see...
GwaihirValar: it still doesn't seem... right
Eonwe Valar: One thing I know for sure: I wish I had taken physics at TCC a couple of years ago :}
GwaihirValar: see... I loved the physics coursework... and the tests...
GwaihirValar: but the labs killed me... they're done in such a way that takes all the worth out of them
Eonwe Valar: the labs are the easy part
GwaihirValar: we're literally told ALL we are supposed to learn out of it
Eonwe Valar: hehe
GwaihirValar: and you had 24 hours to WRITE the report on them
GwaihirValar: my handwriting is ATROCIOUS
GwaihirValar: especially if I'm rushed
GwaihirValar: they would NOT let you type any of it up
Eonwe Valar: we just go into a lab, do the work, record results, answer some questions, take a test, and no more thinking about the lab
GwaihirValar: lucky.
GwaihirValar: We go in, watch a HORRIBLY boring tape that explains everything and walks us through the entire lab
Eonwe Valar: I don't like having to create my own equations, and that's pretty much what I have to do for my physics homework
GwaihirValar: then we do the lab, then we have to write a 2-3 page report in a specific book that we're not allowed to add or remove pages to or from... that we had to BUY
GwaihirValar: and hand it in within 24 hours
Eonwe Valar: hehe, we have tapes, but I've never see none up ther efor my lab, and I doubt too many bother watching them for any of the physics labs :}
GwaihirValar: also, the labs are completely irrelevent to the tests
GwaihirValar: none of the stuff we do in them has much to do directly with our course work
GwaihirValar: but they're mandatory
GwaihirValar: and you can't pass without doing 4 of the 5...
GwaihirValar: *rolls eyes*
Eonwe Valar: we have about 13 labs, could pass doing maybe 10 or 11
GwaihirValar: it's just absolute crap... and I couldn't stand it... so I'm not taking physics lol
Eonwe Valar: the way they have it, each lab is worth 150 points. Get to about 1500 I think and you're good
GwaihirValar: we have 10 lab sessions, 5 are tests, 5 are actual labs... the tests are no problem... I love doing physics work...
Eonwe Valar: 100 points for lab, 50 for test
GwaihirValar: but the labs were, as I said, just horrific
Eonwe Valar: you want to help me with my physics homework? :}
GwaihirValar: I could not continue with that, it would've destroyed me... lol... I think that was what wore me out...
GwaihirValar: or part of it
Eonwe Valar: or fly down and take my final? :}
GwaihirValar: combined with the 13 straight years of schooling with no real breaks and the utter exhaustion(was getting about 3-4 hours of half-sleep a night)
GwaihirValar: I don't get much rest out of my sleep at the best of times lol
GwaihirValar: 3-4 hours of my restless sleep... didn't help
GwaihirValar: I fell asleep during every physics class hehe
GwaihirValar: but I still did nearly perfect on the quizzes
GwaihirValar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: I can for the most part understand the physics stuff
Eonwe Valar: it's doing ring-around-the-rosy with these equations that's killing me, especially since I'm also trying to program 3 programs every 2 weeks and master discrete math on top of keeping up with tech writing
GwaihirValar: ahh...
GwaihirValar: the programming and physics equation stuff would be fun
GwaihirValar: discrete math is a pain I've heard
Eonwe Valar: I thought you were taking it
GwaihirValar: I had a course called discrete math... but it wasn't the programmer's discrete math
GwaihirValar: heh
Eonwe Valar: It's a big pain, especially since proofs has never been something I've been fond of in math, and balance that with everythign I named before
GwaihirValar: oh hmm.... wait, I guess it is the same course
GwaihirValar: lol
GwaihirValar: maybe
GwaihirValar: not sure
Eonwe Valar: We just have one discrete math for all
GwaihirValar: mathematical proofs or logic proofs?
Eonwe Valar: Induction, big O, big Theta
GwaihirValar: okay, ya, same stuff as I was doing
Eonwe Valar: Euclid's theorem
GwaihirValar: but that was one of the courses I 'burned' in...
GwaihirValar: so I didn't actually DO it... I sorta lost all motivation... so stopped doing work
Eonwe Valar: I'm not doing programming, math, and science all in one semester again
GwaihirValar: I desperately needed a break... because I just had no motivation for anything but programming courses lol
Eonwe Valar: I don't know what made me think it was a good idea for this semester
GwaihirValar: hehe
GwaihirValar: get it all out of the way? :-)
Eonwe Valar: I thought that was why I went to a community college for 2 years :}
Eonwe Valar: Now I'd like to throw some of those easy classes in here
GwaihirValar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: Well, I underestimated what I was getting into,.. Had I suspected I would have a CS class and a CS lab, each demanding programs of me, I might've thought twice
Eonwe Valar: for Physics and Discrete math, I could take either separately and probably pull off a b,.. both,.. well it's a good thing I'm a man of faith :}
GwaihirValar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: anyway, that's enough of my complaining :}
GwaihirValar: lol
Eonwe Valar: lol about what?
GwaihirValar: the complaining comment :-)
Eonwe Valar: ah :}
Orodreth V: Anyone here?
Eonwe Valar has left the room.