Valar Guild

October 3, 2004 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST, 22:00 GMT
Back to News 

Before-meeting
Meeting
Attending (15)
    Aerandir/mordacil, Ar-Pharazon, Beregond, Elatan, Elwing, Eonwe, Fladrif, Gil-galad/Xseanzee disco, Mablung/DemonicHorde69, Orodreth, Theoden, Thorondor, Thror/Chugin Chub, Turgon, Varda (presiding)
Member News
Web News
Gaming News
    Guild Wars
    WoW (Worlds of WarCraft) European and US betas
Tolkien
    Character bios: Fladrif, Beregond 
    Letters of JRRT: Letter 246, p. 330
Seventh Anniversary discussion
After-meeting

Before-meeting:
You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
TheodenValar: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya
V Beregond: Aiya
FladrifV: aiya
V Beregond: ^_^
ArPharazonV: lots and lots of aiya's
V Beregond: yup
V Beregond: and we haven't even started yet
ArPharazonV: Turgon will be present here tonight
VardaValar1: Pre-meeting may be a good European meeting time : )
VardaValar1: Laptop behaving for him?
ArPharazonV: yup
ArPharazonV: although he might be a little late
VardaValar1: Yay!
V Beregond: we noticed ^^;
VardaValar1: afk, will scroll
ArPharazonV: he asked me to tell you, for reasons you are probably aware of
FladrifV: I have some game news but arphara will tell in the real meeting
ArPharazonV: neh, Fladrif, it's your news ;-)
FladrifV: but i need to get to sleep early today
ArPharazonV: ah, that's too bad...
VardaValar1: Jotted down, Phar can tell it if our Ent is gone
FladrifV: hehe
V Beregond: I'll prolly drop out mid-meeting...
TheodenValar: same
V Beregond: I need the sleep, as I have a king-sized japanese test tomorrow
ArPharazonV: we have a local holiday here, I'm free tomorrow
V Beregond: :P
ArPharazonV: so I can stay long at the meeting :-)
FladrifV: I work on the same local place but by a internation company
FladrifV: so no free for mee
FladrifV: -e
ArPharazonV: ah, that's too bad
V Beregond: heh, you'll live ;-)
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
TheodenValar: Aiya
VardaValar1: back
FladrifV: aiya
V Beregond: hail Eonwe
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe : )
Eonwe Valar: heya
DemonicHorde69 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Mablung
Eonwe Valar: I just logged into TFT to help ensure the branch stays alive,.. seems I've got more games than I remember playing,..
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: I've spent most of the day playing TFT :-)
VardaValar1: Sounds fun
ArPharazonV: mauls, troy, notd, defend the lich king, and ringwar-style maps
FladrifV: weather was too good today for a pc day
Eonwe Valar: yeah, but I haven't done any real gaming since I got it, and I've got about 64 total games :} (don't remember having time to get that many games :})
VardaValar1: For those of you guys who can't come to the Tolkien part, we could run the game we did last time for you right quick
VardaValar1: One person starts, then taps the shoulder (so to speak) of the next person
VardaValar1: Phar, Eonwe, and I already did it
VardaValar1: The person tells a little about the character he role-plays in the guild
ArPharazonV: I tap Fladrif, to begin ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Turgon
FladrifV: ok
ArPharazonV: Aiya
TurgonjustTurgon: Aiya
TurgonjustTurgon: I made it! :-D
VardaValar1: Congrats
ArPharazonV: you sure did
V Beregond: welcome ^_^
TurgonjustTurgon: this time I made sure I got the laptop last night
ArPharazonV: :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: and otherwise I would've gone off to my mom and use her comp :-)
FladrifV: my role here is being ent and watching to the guild and sometimes discuss the realy important matters
VardaValar1: The game is to tell about the book character that you role-play
ArPharazonV: :-D
FladrifV: almost the same :P
VardaValar1: hehe
TurgonjustTurgon: easy on mine :-)
Chugin Chub has entered the room.
FladrifV: Fladrif is one of the first ents
TurgonjustTurgon: Turgon and Gondolin is my specialty :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya Thror
Chugin Chub: hello
ArPharazonV
: Aiya
DemonicHorde69 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Let Fladrif tell his until he taps someone who has to go soon and hasn't gone yet
Eonwe Valar: then you need to tell about everything not involved with Turgon, Turgon :}
FladrifV: ok
MablungV has entered the room.
FladrifV: an ent in general is quite long of speaking
MablungV: hi all
ArPharazonV: Aiya
FladrifV: ...
VardaValar1: This is about the ent Fladrif. Won't make you tell about all ents : )
VardaValar1: Congrats, Mablung!
MablungV: yea i use deadaim it works
ArPharazonV: woot, new name for my buddylist
MablungV: i have work in a minute so once again ill be reading the log later
MablungV: :( sigh
FladrifV: the short edition FLadrif is one of the oldest ents who lives near isengarth after sourons destruction he fled and was never spoken of
FladrifV: like this?
VardaValar1: That's why we have transcripts : )
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: He fled?
TheodenValar: afk for some time (need to finsih this paper on socrates)
VardaValar1: Sounds interesting
FladrifV: whell he got higher up in the mountains
ElatanValar: Back
VardaValar1: Welcome back
ElatanValar: thx and hello to all
FladrifV: and now I tap.....mablungv
ArPharazonV: mablung, you still here?
FladrifV: ok I tap ....chugin chub
ArPharazonV: thror already went, I believe... last week
FladrifV: ok ok
FladrifV: I tap the meeting
FladrifV: :P
VardaValar1: I don't see him in the list
VardaValar1: Thror, I mean
FladrifV: gtg
ArPharazonV: chugin chub is thror
FladrifV: namarie
ElatanValar: Namarie mellon
Chugin Chub: i thror :P
V Beregond
: aagh
V Beregond: the colours
Elwing V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Thror is not in the list of those who went last week
VardaValar1: Aiya Elwing : )
Eonwe Valar: turn off highlight please Thror
ArPharazonV: hmm... I'll check the transcript
VardaValar1: I just did : )
Elwing V: Aiya (always surprised when I make it in :-)
ElatanValar: Heyas Elwing
Chugin Chub: there :-)
VardaValar1: Let's go to the main meeting now, getting late enough
V Beregond: true
top

Meeting Begins

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1: Membership News:
VardaValar1: Four members got together live and in costume this weekend for the Texas RenFaire:
VardaValar1: Elwing, Merry, Sauron, and Varda
VardaValar1: Much fun had by all
ElatanValar: ohh cool :-)
VardaValar1: Any other member news?
Chugin Chub: i turn 18 today :-)
VardaValar1: Woot!
ElatanValar: but does it really count Varda :-) I mean you are family right ;-)
VardaValar1: Happy birthday
Orodreth V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Elwing is not family
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ElatanValar: Gratz Chugin
VardaValar1: If you'd rather, I won't mention
Chugin Chub: thanx
ArPharazonV
: GRatz
VardaValar1: Aiya Orodreth
Orodreth V: Aiya.
VardaValar1: And we live in different cities
VardaValar1: but ok
ElatanValar: blea no it is still cool Varda
top

VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: I have no new Web news. Has anyone else worked on their pages?
ArPharazonV: we should come together, all of us, some time... a true global meeting
VardaValar1: Sure, come to RenFaire, Phar : )
ElatanValar: if you pay i`ll come
ArPharazonV: heh
ArPharazonV: the journey, you mean?
Eonwe Valar: so everyone's flying to Texas on Phar? :}
VardaValar1: Elatan, did you have news on your MeO page?
ElatanValar: yep :-)
ElatanValar: and no..
ArPharazonV: if only I could afford it....
VardaValar1: heh - ok. Eonwe?
ElatanValar: it has been 2 weeks since last update
VardaValar1: I emailed some more updates this week to keep Eonwe busy ; )
ArPharazonV: heheh
top

VardaValar1: Gaming News:
Eonwe Valar: I'll be starting on the new updates for the Games Page soon
VardaValar1: Fladrif, you had news?
Eonwe Valar: pardon, was typing a bit slowly :}
VardaValar1: Tough to collect all the info neatly and upload. Take the time you need for quality : )
ArPharazonV: Fladrif seems to be gone... I'm surprised he let aim running
VardaValar1: Phar, you were his designated teller if Fladrif left. Go ahead
ArPharazonV: ok
Orodreth V: Namarie
Orodreth V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: as you may recall, earlier this year (or was it last year) there were 3 days when the game 'guildwars' was free to everybody to download and play
ArPharazonV: in the end of october, there will be another such 3 days
ArPharazonV: this time, the game is (almost) finished, I think
ArPharazonV: hang on, I'll get the exact date
VardaValar1: Thanks. Have an URL on that?
ArPharazonV: 'The Guild Wars World Preview Event takes place October 29 through 31, 2004.'
ArPharazonV: http://www.guildwars.com/preview/default.h tml
FladrifV: thanks arphara :-)
FladrifV: /me is packing atm
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: np
VardaValar1: Thanks!
ArPharazonV: any other details you would like mentioned?
VardaValar1: We should be able to pick them up from the URL, thanks
ArPharazonV: okidoki
VardaValar1: Orodreth asked me to pass on some Game news. He had to leave
VardaValar1: I got WoS on here, tested, and found I could not connect to any servers, so I uninstalled. TFT is right out. If I ever get a loaded Vanilla disk for SC, I might try that.
VardaValar1: Orodreth V: My idea for last week srill stands.
VardaValar1: Does anyone else have Game news?
VardaValar1: Unusually fast business meeting : )
VardaValar1: Any other news, suggestions, comments you want to bring up?
ArPharazonV: yeah
ArPharazonV: WoW
VardaValar1: Go ahead Phar
ArPharazonV: European Beta starts this week!
ArPharazonV: I haven't gotten in yet, though
ArPharazonV: the WoW european forum has gotten online, too
VardaValar1: Good luck!
ArPharazonV: but only beta-testers can post... everyone can read, though
VardaValar1: Makes sense
ArPharazonV: mails are still going out, these few days
ArPharazonV: so there is still hope, and even afterwards there will be different phases, with new players
VardaValar1: Eonwe has a related correction for my last week's meeting notes
Eonwe Valar: Last week's meetings notes said the US beta was over. I wanted to clarify that the US closed Beta is not over, just the 7-day stress test beta.
VardaValar1: Yay!
FladrifV has left the room.
VardaValar1: So they will run both at once and give real stress : )
ArPharazonV: oh, right, I remember noticing that statement
Eonwe Valar: Also, they've let in some more guys from the initial closed beta signups
Eonwe Valar: That's it from me :}
VardaValar1: Thanks!
VardaValar1: Copy/pasted onto News page, not uploaded yet
top

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: Oops. Did we have any more comments?
ArPharazonV: no, not here
VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: We were continuing our Tolkien character tag game at the before meeting
VardaValar1: Fladrif got in his description of the ent, Fladrif, from the books
VardaValar1: He tagged Thror
VardaValar1: Thror, are you back yet?
VardaValar1: Besides making us think about who we are, and familiarizing each other,
VardaValar1: it can help us come up with a basis for an article about our own characters
VardaValar1: or help make a plot-bunny for a story or poem : )
VardaValar1: No response from Thror.
VardaValar1: Fladrif's alternate tag was Mablung
VardaValar1: Mablung are you there?
VardaValar1: This could be fast : )
ArPharazonV: Turgon perhaps?
VardaValar1: nope
VardaValar1: Beregond needs to go next, time problem
ArPharazonV: oh, ok
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Ber
V Beregond: hm
V Beregond: I seem to recall being a guardsman in Gondor
VardaValar1: Remember your boy?
V Beregond: friend to Peregrin Took as well
V Beregond: My son gave Pippin a tour of the citym as I recall
VardaValar1: Aye, Bergil did indeed.
VardaValar1: What major service did Beregond do for Faramir?
V Beregond: I saved him from burning ^^;
V Beregond: alongside the Denethor
V Beregond: -the
VardaValar1: Now that's service : )
V Beregond: indeed it is
VardaValar1: For breaking all those rules, what were you sentenced to do?
VardaValar1: For this game, it's ok to look up stuff : )
VardaValar1: Not a test
V Beregond: hehe
VardaValar1: Aragorn did the sentencing
V Beregond: captainship, wasn't it?
VardaValar1: Special captain
VardaValar1: also banishment
V Beregond: had to guard Faramir in the healing houses
V Beregond: too
Aerandir V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
Aerandir V: aiya
V Beregond: aiya
VardaValar1: Thanks, Beregond
VardaValar1: We have an announcement
V Beregond: Captain of the white company ^^;
V Beregond: *done*/
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Tomorrow is the Seventh Anniversary of the Valar Guild
TurgonjustTurgon: w00000h00000 :-)
VardaValar1: Those who would like to game, might like to check on some of the available Tourney style games on the Tourney page and send the results to Eonwe with a cc to Varda
VardaValar1: Most will not be gaming for the Anniversary
V Beregond: I'd game if I could
VardaValar1: So you might like to send a little something in to the Tolkien Encyc
VardaValar1: This tag game is partly to give you material for that : )
VardaValar1: Poem, art, article, drabble, story, whatever your favorite medium is
ArPharazonV: game? anniversary? what?
ArPharazonV: is there something organized for the anniversary?
VardaValar1: I am trying to organize something now : )
VardaValar1: Please scroll up and see what is written, then please ask specific questions and we will try to help
VardaValar1: Do you all know where to find the Tourney page?
TurgonjustTurgon: under games I believe
MablungV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: trying to find it..
Aerandir V has left the room.
Aerandir V has entered the room.
Aerandir V has left the room.
Aerandir V has entered the room.
Elwing V: Happy Guild Aniversary! (a day early)
ArPharazonV: so far, no luck
VardaValar1: hehe - yay us : )
Aerandir V has left the room.
Aerandir V has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: www.valarguild.org/eonwe/Tourney.htm
Aerandir V has left the room.
Aerandir V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Not FoundThe requested URL /eonwe/Tourney.htm was not found on this server.
Aerandir V has left the room.
Aerandir V has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: hmm then just follow the link on the Games Page :}
Aerandir V has left the room.
Aerandir V has entered the room.
Aerandir V has left the room.
Aerandir V has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: I was trying to do it from memory, but I know it exists :}
Aerandir V has left the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: found it
TurgonjustTurgon: on Eonwe's games page in the left frame
ArPharazonV: eck, this just for Diablo?
Eonwe Valar: we have stuff for Starcraft as well
TurgonjustTurgon: http://valarguild.org/eonwe/Tourneys.htm
Eonwe Valar: we have yet to have any Guild Members make Tourney maps for WC3/TFT
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/eonwe/Tourneys.htm
Eonwe Valar: THanks Turgon, suspected it might need the s
ArPharazonV: oh, cool, yes, I found the starcraft-thingies
Eonwe Valar: thanks to Varda as well :}
V Beregond: well, I'll be leaving now. You all have a good night ^_^
ArPharazonV: Mara Lome!
VardaValar1: Thanks for gaming, Beregond1
VardaValar1: Namarie
TurgonjustTurgon: afk for a quick sec
ArPharazonV: so, any chance for a starcraft-tourney tomorrow?
V Beregond: Namarie
V Beregond has left the room.
mordacil has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
mordacil: aiya
VardaValar1: Problems, Aerandir?
VardaValar1: Aiya
mordacil: wouldnt let me get to the chat with my aerandir name
ThorondorV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: ouch
VardaValar1: Glad you had a second account
VardaValar1: Aiya Eagle : )
ThorondorV: Heya, sorry had to do some schoolwork
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Good. Don't want our eagles to be stupid ;-)
VardaValar1: Tomorrow is our anniverary, #7
TurgonjustTurgon: bacl
ArPharazonV: I still wish we could have War3 tourneys like Ringwars, Lotr: Second Age, and Silmarillion/War of the Jewels....
VardaValar1: Some of the guys might want to get together and game, tell about their anniversary gaming on the News and/or Forum
ArPharazonV: just too bad they're for 12 players
VardaValar1: WE can, Phar
VardaValar1: Just get together
ArPharazonV: and how do you propose getting 12 war3 players together for a long enough amount of time?
Eonwe Valar: mass e-mail
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: For anniversary game
VardaValar1: good luck ; )
ArPharazonV: heh
ArPharazonV: I'll think I'll stick to the Starcraft tourneys, until we have a sufficient amount of frequent war3-players
VardaValar1: We can also do gaming with just guild guys according to Tourney rules we have, and having fun trying to adapt them to other games or making new games
VardaValar1: Diablo has a lot of Tourney set-ups
VardaValar1: and feel free to add to the Encyc as an Anniversary contribution, especially those who have gaming problems
VardaValar1: Who would like to play Phar SC or BW this week?
VardaValar1: We have some SC Tourney games
ArPharazonV: yes, I saw that on the page
TurgonjustTurgon: I would if I could, but this is not my comp unfortunately
TurgonjustTurgon: though with luck, my comp will be fixed again tomorrow
ArPharazonV: wow, with a lot of luck, I assume?
ArPharazonV: the maps seem cool
VardaValar1: Need three to play the maps
TurgonjustTurgon: actually, tomorrow, I'll be getting a new motherboard and processor
VardaValar1: Designed for SC, but can be played in BW
ArPharazonV: I don't mind, I could play either of the 2
VardaValar1: Articles etc for Anniversary, please tag that they are for that. They will have a special comment on them when published.
VardaValar1: Be sure to tell if you used SC or BW on the maps : )
ArPharazonV: heh...
ArPharazonV: I guess it's really up to the other players
ArPharazonV: assuming there are any, of course
VardaValar1: Any other suggestions for the Anniversary?
mordacil has left the room.
ArPharazonV: no, not really... I don't have an article prepared or anything, and my stories are far, far, really far from finished
mordacil has entered the room.
VardaValar1: You don't have to have one already made
ArPharazonV: in fact, I should start to work on them again soon...
VardaValar1: We were just doing those quick bits helping us figure out what we could tell about our characters
VardaValar1: Then we look them up in the original materia
VardaValar1: l
VardaValar1: This can give ideas for poems, stories, articles, etc
ArPharazonV: I think I'll build my Mendara-story a bit like Tolkien built the Silm...
VardaValar1: Sometimes all we need is a push
VardaValar1: How about something short you can have up for next Sunday?
Elwing V: Going to say my "namarie"s now...huzzah again (7 times!) for the Guild!
ArPharazonV: I already have an outline, and I can add detailed pieces to it, and tie it together, in time....
ArPharazonV: something short?
ArPharazonV: not good at short stories
ArPharazonV: the last one I made was how the chicken truly crossed the road ;-)
ArPharazonV: most of my stories are huge, and take much time to finish... even if I do bring myself to finishing/not continuing one
ArPharazonV: and these two stories are the longest I've ever come up with....
VardaValar1: How about a poem?
TheodenValar: back and going to leave you at the same time :'( sorry about not being more active (I would probably not said much anyway, thats just me, the quiet type) well good night everybody
TheodenValar: Btw please send some happy thoughts my way, to help me get this paper accepted
VardaValar1: Glad you came : )
ArPharazonV: Namarie
ArPharazonV: will do
VardaValar1: Happiness to you! And happy 7th Anniversary!
ArPharazonV: Many thoughts of happiness! May happiness master your life!
ArPharazonV: May nothing you strive for ever fail again!
TheodenValar: Happy 7th anniversary! bye all
TheodenValar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Maybe we could make a stab at keeping our AIM chat room open all day on the Fourth just for fun : )
VardaValar1: maybe even chat!
ArPharazonV: heh, could be
ArPharazonV: although it'll be up to the americans to keep it open for the next 12 hours or so...
ArPharazonV: we could have a virtual party in the room :-)
ThorondorV: Well it's fourth here already.. :-)
ArPharazonV: yup, indeed
ArPharazonV: here as well
VardaValar1: Woot! :-)
ThorondorV: I live in the future, whee ;-)
Elwing V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Congrats to the Guild, for surviving 7 years, without having to lower its remarkable conditions!
ArPharazonV: and Congrats to me, for surviving the guild 1 year ;-)
VardaValar1: Congrats on your first year anniversary, Phar : )
ArPharazonV: Thank you!
VardaValar1: I declare After-meeting : )
Eonwe Valar: Only first year? Seems longer than that :}
ArPharazonV: It's been great hanging out with you all, and I hope to be a member for many many years to come!
ArPharazonV: no, believe me, it has only been one year
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: although I don't know how I should feel about that remark ;-)
ArPharazonV: complimented or...
Eonwe Valar: Just seems you've been here longer :}
Eonwe Valar: Figured you were workin on Second year already ;}
ArPharazonV: well, I've been disturbing meetings so often... I'm just present a lot
ArPharazonV: if I were here longer, I'd probably already been striving to reach Maia-status ;-)
Eonwe Valar: afk for a sec
VardaValar1: Eonwe and I are digging through Letters of JRRT
VardaValar1: Maia are regular members who act like Maia and are recognized for it
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Gil-galad : )
ArPharazonV: right, and if I were here longer, I'd probably be trying to act like Maia a lot more :-)
Xseanzee disco: heyyyy
VardaValar1: Seventh Anniversary of the Guild on Oct 4 : )
Xseanzee disco: Nice.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Xseanzee disco: 17th anniversary of me last friday.
Xseanzee disco: the 1st
VardaValar1: We may try to keep the chat room open for the entire 4th, starting now since it's the 4th in Europe now
VardaValar1: Congrats and Happy Birthday!
Xseanzee disco: thanks :-)
ArPharazonV: Congrats!
Xseanzee disco: ty.
VardaValar1
: Found it, Eonwe
ArPharazonV: for he's a jolly good fellow...
VardaValar1: pg. 330
VardaValar1: Letter 246
Eonwe Valar: back
VardaValar1: Frodo, once his need for possession of the Ring was satisfied, would have thrown himself into lava
VardaValar1: Welcome back : )
VardaValar1: It's mixed into a discussion about Gollum
VardaValar1: Here's a tidbit:
VardaValar1: JRRT quote:
Eonwe Valar: that's all on the subject? darn,.. was hoping for a somewhat larger quote,..
VardaValar1: For me perhaps the most tragic moment in the Tale comes in II 323 ff,
VardaValar1: when Sam fails to note the complete change in Gollum's tone and aspect."
VardaValar1: "'Nothing, nothing', said Gollum softly,
VardaValar1: 'Nice master!' His repentence is blighted adn all
VardaValar1: and all Frodo's pity
VardaValar1: is (in a sense) wasted.
VardaValar1: Shelob's lair becomes inevitable."
VardaValar1: Then it talks about the logic of the story and what would have happened if's.
VardaValar1: That's how it leads to Frodo and what he would have done.
VardaValar1: I know you don't have the book with you. How much typing can you stand on this? :-)
Eonwe Valar: as much as you can :} but I won't ask for more:} You've covered the part I was looking for. Thanks.
VardaValar1: This is after-meeting. I don't mind if others don't : )
VardaValar1: Thanks to Ar-Pharazon for reminding me that the Anniversary was upon us
VardaValar1: I totally lost track, and am deeply indebted to his reminder!
VardaValar1: Taking up from "inevitable" and remembering this is halfway into the Letter : )
ArPharazonV: No problem, really
VardaValar1: "This is due of course to the 'logic of the story'.
VardaValar1: Sam could hardly have acted differently.
TurgonjustTurgon: Namarie everyone, I am trying to get some rest, early rise tomorrow
VardaValar1: (He did reach the point of pity at last (III 221-222)
ElatanValar: Namaria Turgon
VardaValar1: Footnote 4 here
VardaValar1: Namarie!
VardaValar1: skipping footnote
VardaValar1: but for the good of Gollum too late.)
ArPharazonV: Namarie
VardaValar1: If he had, what could then have happened?
TurgonjustTurgon has left the room.
ElatanValar: I will have to leave too. Namarie all and a good night
ArPharazonV: Namarie
ElatanValar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: sleep well :}
VardaValar1: The course of the entry into Mordor and the struggle to reach Mount Doom would have been different, and so would the ending.
VardaValar1: Namarie! Belatedly
VardaValar1: The interest would have shifted to Gollum.
VardaValar1: , I think, and the battle that would have gone on between his repentence and his new love on one side and the Ring.
VardaValar1: Though the love would have been strengthened daily it could not have
VardaValar1: wrested the mastery from the Ring.
VardaValar1: I think that in some queer twisted and pitiable way Gollum would have tried
VardaValar1: (not maybe with conscious design)
VardaValar1: to satisfy both.
VardaValar1: Certainly at some point not long before the end he would have stolen the Ring or taken it by violence
VardaValar1: (as he does in the actual Tale).
VardaValar1: But 'possession' satisfied, I think he would then have sacrificed himself for Frodo's sake adn have voluntarily cast himself into the fiery abyss.
ArPharazonV: How did he again fall in the abyss in the end?
Eonwe Valar: he was dancing and gloating
ArPharazonV: he tripped, or didn't watch where he was going?
mordacil: tripped
VardaValar1: I think that an effect of his partial regeneration by love would have been a clearer vision when he claimed the Ring.
ThorondorV: I'm off now too, fellows.. good night and happy 7th.
VardaValar1: Namarie, Thorondor1
ArPharazonV: who knows... he might have tripped on purpose, unconsciously
Eonwe Valar: take care Eagle :}
ArPharazonV: Namarie
ThorondorV: Namarie :-)
mordacil: only 6:42 here
ArPharazonV: heh
ThorondorV has left the room.
VardaValar1: He would have perceived the evil of Sauron, and suddenly realized that he could not use the Ring and had not the strength or stature to keep it
Eonwe Valar: This is still GOllum you're quoting for, correct?
VardaValar1: in Sauron's despite; the only way to keep it and hurt Sauron was to destroy it and himself together - and in a flash
Eonwe Valar: or, should I say, Smeagol :}
VardaValar1: he may have seen that this would also be the greatest service to Frodo.
mordacil: I always imagined that hte ring was worn on the "ring" finger but in the movie it was on the index finger. what is it with a magic ring always on the index finger?
VardaValar1: Aye, Smeagol : )
VardaValar1: Ring finger is meant to point to one's heart
VardaValar1: back to quotes:
ArPharazonV: I thought it was on Frodo's middle finger?
VardaValar1: Frodo in the tale actually takes the Ring and claims it, and certainly he too would have had a clear vision -
VardaValar1: but he was not given any time: he was immediately attacked by Gollum.
VardaValar1: End of that quote
VardaValar1: But tons more on the subject : )
VardaValar1: Since you know about Gollum, you can understand Frodo from this.
Eonwe Valar: agreed
VardaValar1: Here is more on what Frodo was considering, next part of text, read along or not : )
VardaValar1: "When Sauron was aware of the seizure of the Ring his one hope was in its power:
VardaValar1: that the claimant would be unable to relinquish it until Sauron had time to deal with him.
VardaValar1: Frodo too would then probably, if no attacked, have had to take the same way:
VardaValar1: cast himself with the Ring into the abyss.
VardaValar1: If not he would of course have completely failed.
VardaValar1: It is an interesting problem: how Sauron would have acted or the claimant have resisted.
VardaValar1: Sauron sent at once the Ringwraiths.
VardaValar1: They were naturally fully instructed and in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the Ring.
VardaValar1: The wearer would not be invisible to them, but the reverse;
VardaValar1: and the more vulnerable to their wapons.
ArPharazonV: Wow, this is interesting... I've got to get me them letters.
VardaValar1: But the situation was now different to that under Weathertop, where Frodo acted merely in fear adn wished only to use (in vain)
VardaValar1: the Ring's subsidiary power of conferring invisibility.
VardaValar1: He had grown since then.
VardaValar1: Would they have been immune from its power if he claimed it as an instrument of command and domination?
VardaValar1: Not wholly.
VardaValar1: I do not think they cuold have attacked him with violence, nor laid hold upon him
VardaValar1: or taken him captive;
VardaValar1: they would have feigned to obey any minor commands of his that did not interfere with their errand -
VardaValar1: laid upon them by Sauron, who still through their nine rings
VardaValar1: (which he held)
VardaValar1: had primary control of thier wills.
VardaValar1: That errand was to remove Frodo from the Crack.
VardaValar1: Once he lost the power or opportunity to destroy the Ring, the end could not be in doubt --
VardaValar1: saving help from outside,
VardaValar1: which was hardly even remotely possible."
VardaValar1: This is Varda again. Can you stand more? : )
Eonwe Valar: Can you dish out more? :}
VardaValar1: You bet. : )
VardaValar1: JRRT:
VardaValar1: Frodo had become a considerable person, but of a special kind in spiritual enlargement rather than in increase of physical or mental power;
VardaValar1: his will was much stronger than it had been, but so far it had been exercised in resisting not using the Ring and with the object of destroying it.
VardaValar1: He needed time, much time, before he could control the Ring or
VardaValar1: (which in such a case is the same)
VardaValar1: before it could control him;
VardaValar1: before his will and arrogance could grow to a stature in which he could dominate other major hostile wills.
VardaValar1: Even so for a long time his acts and commands would still have to be seen 'good' to him,
ArPharazonV: I think I'll go work on my story... I've got nothing to add here
VardaValar1: to be for the benefit of others beside himself.
VardaValar1: This is for your benefit. Namarie!
VardaValar1: JRRT:
ArPharazonV: meh, I'll remain in this room, try to read up with the quote, it's interesting
ArPharazonV: but still, I'll write in the meanwhile
VardaValar1: The situation as between Frodo with the Ring adn the Eight might be compared to that of
VardaValar1: a small brave man armed with a devastating weapon, faced by eight savage warriors of great strength and agility armed with poisoned blades.
VardaValar1: The man's weakness was that he did not know how to use his weapon yet
VardaValar1: ; and he was by temperament and training averse to violence.
VardaValar1: Their weakness was that the man's weapon was a thing that filled them with fear
VardaValar1: as an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned
VardaValar1: to treat one who wielded it with servility.
VardaValar1: I think they would have shown 'servility'.
VardaValar1: They would have greeted Frodo as 'Lord'.
VardaValar1: With fair speeches they would have induced him to leave the Sammath Naur
VardaValar1: -- for instance 'to look upon his new kingdom, and behold afar with his new sight the abode of power that he must now claim adn turn to
VardaValar1: his own purposes'.
VardaValar1: Once outside the chamber while he was gazing some of them would have destroyed the entrance.
VardaValar1: Frodo would by then probably have been already too enmeshed in great plans of reformed rule -- like but far greater
VardaValar1: and wider than the vision that tempted Sam (III 177) -- to heed this.
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
VardaValar1: But if he still preserved some sanity and partly understood the significance of it, so that he refused
VardaValar1: now to go with them to Barad-dur, they
VardaValar1: would have simply have waited.
VardaValar1: Until Sauron himself came.
VardaValar1: In any case a confrontation of Frodo and Sauron would have soon taken place, if the Ring was intact.
VardaValar1: Its result was inevitable.
VardaValar1: Frodo would have been utterly overthrown: crushed to dust, or preserved in torment as a gibbering slave.
VardaValar1: Sauron would not have feared the Ring!
VardaValar1: It was his own and under his will.
VardaValar1: Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself.
mordacil: Time to go . namarie everyone
VardaValar1: In his actual presence,
VardaValar1: Namarie!
Eonwe Valar: Take care :}
mordacil has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Nam... too late
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
VardaValar1: none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him.
VardaValar1: Of 'mortals' no one, not even Aragorn.
VardaValar1: In the contest with the Palantir Aragorn was the rightful owner.
VardaValar1: Also the contest took place at a distance, and in a tale which allows the incarnation of great spirits in a physical and destructible form
VardaValar1: their power must be far greater when actually physically present.
VardaValar1: Sauron should be thought of as very terrible.
VardaValar1: The form that he took was that of a man more than human stature but not gigantic.
VardaValar1: In his earlier incarnation he was able to veil his power (as Gandalf did)
VardaValar1: and could appear as a commanding figure of great strength of body and supremely royal demeanor and countenance.
VardaValar1: Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him -
VardaValar1: being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking physical form.
VardaValar1: "
VardaValar1: Break in quote.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, do you want this further discussion on the other strong people who might have gone after Sauron?
Eonwe Valar: It's interesting, but you've already covered what I was looking for :} I'm enjoying the quote though :}
VardaValar1: My pleasure
VardaValar1: The letter finally ends after a discussion of these strong ones
ArPharazonV: yes, I'm enjoying it too, I apologize for the stretch of IM interruptions, just trying to set a background for my Mendara story :-)
VardaValar1: The upshot is Gandalf would have been the only one, really, and would have been worse than Sauron, self-righteous.
VardaValar1: Feel free to do your own research Phar : )
ArPharazonV: good idea
ArPharazonV: although I might not have the literature here you have access too
VardaValar1: You'll pick up more ideas that way
ArPharazonV: *to
Eonwe Valar: Does that include or exclude Saruman?
VardaValar1: Saruman is not mentioned
VardaValar1: The other two ringbearers, Galadriel and Elrond, are
ArPharazonV: and Radagast? ;-)
VardaValar1: Not mentioned
Eonwe Valar: guess he's ruled out of the discussion since he was no longer one of the good-guys
VardaValar1: Not in direct opposition to Sauron, aye
VardaValar1: The ringbearers did not contemplate a face to face confrontation either
VardaValar1: Only Gandalf could have pulled that off
Eonwe Valar: I find it particularly interesting even Aragorn was not up to par with Sauron
VardaValar1: Gandalf was more powerful than Saruman
VardaValar1: Aragorn was mortal
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: he had a ring, and he was a Maia... Gandalf was the number one archenemy of Sauron
Eonwe Valar: maybe if he claimed the ring, he could fight Sauron long-distance via the Palantir to gain an edge :}
VardaValar1: :-)
VardaValar1: Since Gandalf's powers were limited to be an Istar, he would have needed the edge, aye.
Eonwe Valar: I meant Aragorn :}
VardaValar1: Doubt if it would have been enough, but it would certainly have helped!
VardaValar1: Now how are we going to keep this chat room up for the Fourth?
ArPharazonV: no edge would have been enough for Aragorn to defeat Sauron in a will-to-will-contest, I think
VardaValar1: I agree
top

After-meeting: continuing until Oct 5  ; )
ArPharazonV: I don't think anyone of us would be willing to keep his pc running the entire night?
VardaValar1: Night is different for us
ArPharazonV: but still, knowing me, I won't get back online for about 12 hours from here
VardaValar1: I'll try to keep mine up for a few more hours
ArPharazonV: which is a part of the night for you
VardaValar1: I might be able to do it. Would rather have help : )
VardaValar1: But I'm going afk!
Eonwe Valar: I could probably pick up before I go to class tomorrow,.. would be afk of course :}
Eonwe Valar: that's about 7-8 am central
ArPharazonV: and what's the difference with my timezone? 9-10 hours?
Eonwe Valar: hmm, gmt -600 I think
ArPharazonV: in that case, I would be earlier than you
VardaValar1: No quest for three since 2003? That can't be right
ArPharazonV: or about the same time
VardaValar1: I thought I reported one for 2004 at least
VardaValar1: Will have to do it again this week, for sure!
Eonwe Valar: hmm might've either missed the e-mail or forgot to upload the updated TOurney page
VardaValar1: It is 6:30 pm here CST
VardaValar1: Might try that upload, easiest fix
ArPharazonV: right, that would be.. 7 hours earlier than me
VardaValar1: Go to bed, Phar : )
Eonwe Valar: assuming it's there,.. but haven't transferred everything to my new comp yet,..
ArPharazonV: I would be around an hour earlier tomorrow than Eonwe
ArPharazonV: bed? so early? ;-)
VardaValar1: Ah the problems
Eonwe Valar: Now that I've managed to get through the Free People missions of WotZR, I should probably put a review up as well
Eonwe Valar: *WotR
ArPharazonV: missions? I thought it was fully multiplayer?
Eonwe Valar: Nice graphics, terrible World Editor,..
Eonwe Valar: WotR has single-PLayer campaigns as well
Eonwe Valar: one for Free Peoples, one for servants of Sauron
ArPharazonV: sounds cool, perhaps I should consider buying it after all...
Chugin Chub has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: be sure you meet all the minimum requirements
ArPharazonV: link?
ArPharazonV: to the requirements?
Eonwe Valar: one sec
Eonwe Valar: 800 mhz processor,, 256 RAM, 2 gig hd space,..
Eonwe Valar: I take that back, you better have a much better graphics card than minimum :}
Eonwe Valar: or better processor/RAM :}
Eonwe Valar: It says 32 meg Graphics, supporting T&L
Eonwe Valar: I can tell you meeting those min requirements aren't enough
ArPharazonV: speed: 1.66 ghz
ArPharazonV: ram: 512
ArPharazonV: hd space: about 10 gig, could always remove stuff
ArPharazonV: graphics card... hmm...
ArPharazonV: is that like Geforce?
Eonwe Valar: My dad's comp had min ram and processor with doublke the Graphic card, and it ran painfully slow
Eonwe Valar: Geforce or Radeon
ArPharazonV: Geforce4 MX 420
Eonwe Valar: needs a DirectX 9 or compatible driver
ArPharazonV: that I have
Eonwe Valar: I have't tried any regular maps on it yet, but the missions were fun
ArPharazonV: just a sidenote: the War of Wrath lasted 50 years?
Eonwe Valar: fate powers can make a difference, and the very last free people mission is alot of fun :}
Eonwe Valar: not sure
Eonwe Valar: don
ArPharazonV: I don't suppose an Elven civilization can develop much in 50 years...
Eonwe Valar: 't recall seing a number of years assigned
VardaValar1: A lot can happen in 50 years. Take a look at Gondolin's being built
VardaValar1: Forum rp not being updated much. Hate for it to get down to just Eonwe and me, although we'd be terrific ; )
ArPharazonV: Hey, I'll still post... from time to time
ArPharazonV: I made a huge post to cover everything, and am quite pleased with how it came out
VardaValar1: We could use a post now, racing from pursuers and zipping past ambush while jumping a river.
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: shouldn't we wait for Haran and/or Estarion?
Eonwe Valar: Well, I intended to be the last across
Eonwe Valar: Estarion is on my horse, and Haran on Fainan's :}
Eonwe Valar: so that covers everyone :}
ArPharazonV: yeah, ok...
VardaValar1: Looks as if my post is still last
ArPharazonV: but I mean, shouldn't Turg and Arathorn get to write a few posts?
VardaValar1: I wish they would : )
Eonwe Valar: ahn
ArPharazonV: at the moment, I'm writing a plotline for the Prologue of my fan-epic... it's the one part I covered the least in previous outlines, and is taking me a while, most of it I'm just making up on the spot :-)