October 24, 2004 Meeting
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Back to News
5pm EST, 22:00 GMT
Transcript team: ArPharazon, Varda
Attending: Aerandir, Ar-Pharazon, Caranthir/GoodTimes695, Celebrimbor, Eonwe,
Gilraen, Gwaihir, Lungorthin/sauronjag,
Farmer Maggot-(V)'s birthday
Mislaid Age of Empires 2 install disk
Pharazon is healthy again
Eonwe's computer is
Lungorthin not currently
playing WC3, is playing BW and CS. Plans on MeO
Embla-TV is in New Zealand
touring movie sites
D2X Middle-earth mod
War of the Ring
How far-reaching were the results of
the cry of the gull heard by the Fellowship as they approached the
Corsairs of Umbar?
You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
VardaValar1: Aiya, Pharazon
Musics4Me2 has entered the room.
I'm not gonna be able to make the meeting due to a visit to the
Musics4Me2: birthday dinner :-) (even though my birthday's tommorow)
VardaValar1: Joyous reason :-)
VardaValar1: Care to tell how old you will be tomorrow?
VardaValar1: Nice age : )
VardaValar1: Enjoy your steak for us!
Musics4Me2: I'm sure I will
ArPharazonV: ahh... 15... to be that young
ArPharazonV: for me it's only been 4 and a half years ago, but still :P
VardaValar1: : )
Musics4Me2: it really doesn't change anything for me.... but I get 80
VardaValar1: All ages have their points and drawbacks
VardaValar1: Now that's a point!
ArPharazonV: 80 bucks is good
Musics4Me2: yeah, I'll probably buy a motherboard and a processor for a
comp I wanna build
VardaValar1: Sounds fun!
Musics4Me2: yep, if it works ;-)
VardaValar1: That's added fun : )
ArPharazonV: I decided to add a little sidequest to the rp... details
are at this point only known to me, and a little to Turgon
VardaValar1: Saw that
VardaValar1: Left me to face Thranduil : )
VardaValar1: Should be a fun knee-knocker
Musics4Me2: hm... I wish I could find my Age of Empires 2 install disc
ArPharazonV: if only I could lend you mine...
Celebrimbor V has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Shaggyjoe has entered the room.
Shaggyjoe: good afternoon : )
Eonwe Valar: heya :}
Celebrimbor V: aiya
Shaggyjoe: how is everyone?
Eonwe Valar: Alive :}
Eonwe Valar: every now and then I do some kicking :}
Musics4Me2: here, for the moment
ArPharazonV: my sickyness has past
Eonwe Valar: congrats :}
VardaValar1: Eonwe, some more pics of Valar and Lamps
VardaValar1: In process of putting up
Eonwe Valar: any good?
Eonwe Valar: ok
VardaValar1: Some are
VardaValar1: lamps are not like what you were looking for, but has both
Aerandir V has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Btw, I'm having com p troubles
with my comp, so that means more web delays,..
Aerandir V: aiya
VardaValar1: Know that feeling, we all do
VardaValar1: What is it doing?
Eonwe Valar: Memory failure
VardaValar1: Alzheimer's of the comp
VardaValar1: Losing your updates?
VardaValar1: Lamps under "Objects" now
Eonwe Valar: Talked to the tch support guys yesterday,.. they're
sending new memory and a guy to replace it. If this doesn't work I may
be getting a new motherboard for free :}
VardaValar1: That sounds both good and bad : )
Eonwe Valar: I can't even use my comp :} I'm on a nother comp which has
nothing of my web stuff on it
VardaValar1: Glad you found a way to come : )
Eonwe Valar: luckily it wasn't hard to manage :}
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: Some of the Valar pics are good. Some filling in spots
where we had none
VardaValar1: Looked at the Blizzard fan art. They look more
professional than like regular fan art. Nice browsing
Eonwe Valar: aye, some really good ones in there
Eonwe Valar: some that reminded me of Ralph Bakshi's drawing style as
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: Was that an underhanded comment? : )
Eonwe Valar: I don't think so,.. thought my sentiments were
Eonwe Valar: *straight even :}
VardaValar1: Been going over too many sentences as editor on some of my
sauronjag has entered the room.
VardaValar1: aiya : )
sauronjag: Heyas :-)
Eonwe Valar: After seeing some of Bakshi's other work, I wouldn't want
LotR associated in a positive way with him,.. :}
VardaValar1: some really good ones and some of Bakshi's as well. Just
struck me as funny
Eonwe Valar: heya guy with the bright yellow name ;}
Still playing any DAoC?
Aerandir V: where are these pictures you are talking about?
sauronjag: nope, I haven't gotten on in months... I spent too much time
playing so I wanted to stop myself before it became my life to compete
w/ everyone :-)
VardaValar1: Tolkien Encyc
Aerandir V: ok
VardaValar1: Could just ration yourself : )
Eonwe Valar: Could come to WC3? :}
sauronjag: I've been playing a lot of cs and broodwars though
VardaValar1: Sounds fun
VardaValar1: Using guild name?
sauronjag: hhe, I'd rather wait until MEO
VardaValar1: MeO isn't til 2005 now
VardaValar1: ah cool
sauronjag: really? bummer :-(
sauronjag: I can't wait for it
VardaValar1: You could join our MeO rp in the forum
VardaValar1: Our party is in Mirkwood now, could pick up some guys there
Eonwe Valar: War of the Ring, an RTS, is has been
out for a few months :} Might hold you over? :}
VardaValar1: and you could game with Eonwe : )
sauronjag: haha, I might! WotR I played for awhile, but found it was
identical to wc3 :-)
Eonwe Valar: Unfortunately, the world editor for WotR is reminiscent of
WC2, not even of Broodwar or WC3
sauronjag: I've lost my skill in wc3 games, whatever little I had in
the first place... :-)
sauronjag: still holding my own pretty well on brood wars
Eonwe Valar: I find the Fate powers interesting and seems like they
could turn the tide of a battle
Aerandir V: the "battle for middle earth" is coming
sauronjag: the fate powers were pretty fun
Eonwe Valar: I'm wary of any EA title
since it seems every X-box copy of RotK is bugged
Aerandir V: rts with some new features
Eonwe Valar: yeah
Musics4Me2: buggy? or does it phone home?
Aerandir V: the trolls can pull up trees and the units can be organized
Eonwe Valar: Can't save the second player very well, the commentaries
VardaValar1: Battle for Middle-earth looked interesting
Eonwe Valar: and a couple of other things I don't recall right now
Aerandir V: its not out yet but there are videos that sow you the
sauronjag: what kind of game is battle for middle earth?
Aerandir V: real-time strategy
Eonwe Valar: but when I say it can't save the second player very well,
I mean the second player ends up back at level one :}
sauronjag: is it a microsoft game?
Musics4Me2: well, time for me to leave, cya guys
Eonwe Valar: take care :}
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
Aerandir V: its EA
Eonwe Valar: Just saw the picture of the Lamps Varda,.. they are nice,
but would be hard to split them up for the page
Eonwe Valar: EA has the movie license, so anythign related to the LotR
movies is going to be made by EA
sauronjag: I played Doom3 recently, that was probably
the scariest game/thing I have ever seen :-)
Aerandir V: there are videos here if you want to see
Musics4Me2 has left the room.
Celebrimbor V: which game?
ArPharazonV: that supposed to be a link?
Aerandir V: there is a free version of membership to this site that
lets you see vides
Aerandir V: but you cant download them without paying
Eonwe Valar: Anyoen here following the MEO RP?
Aerandir V: that was supposed to be a link
Eonwe Valar: don't want to mention spoilers out loud if you haven't
read the newest parts
Aerandir V: retry
ArPharazonV: ah, gamespot
ArPharazonV: yup, I've got the free membership
VardaValar1: I'm following it : )
Aerandir V: gamespot=really good site
Celebrimbor V: u can also go to EA's website for any videos on any new
Eonwe Valar: Really? You Varda? Why would you be following the MEO RP?
VardaValar1: Put up a picture for Celebrimbor, but no article
VardaValar1: To see what trouble you're getting us into next!
Aerandir V: i dont think EA would tell the bad parts of a game though
Celebrimbor V: oh...different game lol
Eonwe Valar: good answer :}
Aerandir V: they have an agenda
Celebrimbor V: yeah
Aerandir V: (money)
Celebrimbor V: yeah
Celebrimbor V: phar, u looked at Third Age any?
ArPharazonV: uhm... wah?
Celebrimbor V: LOTR: The Third Age
Eonwe Valar: Link in frames page of Encyclopedia still leads to
Amillo's glittering caves.
ArPharazonV: that a game?
Celebrimbor V: yeah
Celebrimbor V: turned based RPG
Celebrimbor V: party of 4 travels in the wake of the fellowship....and
occasionally encounters them
VardaValar1: The art link you mean, Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: The characters in that group disturb me for some reason,..
Eonwe Valar: aye
Celebrimbor V: disturb?
VardaValar1: I haven't gotten the new art page straight yet
Eonwe Valar: They just seem wrong
Eonwe Valar: ah ok
VardaValar1: Keeps moving too. Destroys links I rig
sauronjag: I'm watching some videos of battle for middle earth, it
looks really cool
VardaValar1: Was on Alatar's server, now on Farmer's
Eonwe Valar: The characters in EA's Third Age game seem wrong,.. just
VardaValar1: Farmer got grounded and I started wondering if I should
put the art elsewhere
Aerandir V: i dont like the fighting style-run up, hit, run back to
start point-or just wave the sword and aim "magic stuff" at emeny.
dosent seem natural
GilraenV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: A Ranger abandoning his post isn't much better either
Aerandir V: i would hae like the fighting to be more like that in star
wars knights of the old republic
Eonwe Valar: heya GIlraen
TurgonjustTurgon has entered the room.
VardaValar1: and Aiya : )
ArPharazonV: to both, btw
TurgonjustTurgon: sorry I'm late
Aerandir V: theyre ranger "abandoned "his post or is there another
Aerandir V: ?
TurgonjustTurgon: was helping out my sis with math
Eonwe Valar: One sec, I'll look at my magazine if I can find it
VardaValar1: Good reason
VardaValar1: The chat is too good to interrupt with a meeting just yet
TurgonjustTurgon: and found an error in the book too lol
Eonwe Valar: but it says his choice was to abandon his post and go help
somewhere else or stay where he was, somethign like that.
VardaValar1: Happens too often, Turgon : )
TurgonjustTurgon: ah, pre-meeting tolkien chat is it? :-)
VardaValar1: Tolkien and gaming at the same time
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: an error in the book?
TurgonjustTurgon: any signs of Elatan the last couple weeks?
TurgonjustTurgon: in her math book
VardaValar1: Not today
VardaValar1: Emails, yes
ArPharazonV: oh, btw: I've bought, and fully read, the Sellamillion
VardaValar1: Forum yes
VardaValar1: Congrats, Phar : )
TurgonjustTurgon: was just wondering if he'd turn up today :-)
VardaValar1: You would need to be early for him to work with you : )
Aerandir V: the rules of sci-fi/fantasy-if they could they would, but
they cant so they dont. and fans can come up with a story to explain
ArPharazonV: it was a fun book... starts off as a parody of the
Silmarillion, but takes off in its own direction...
VardaValar1: You recommend it?
GilraenV: Oh, before I forget, 'cause I prolly won't be able to stay
long, Orodreth said to tell if he wasn't here tonight that he's
VardaValar1: Good for him
ArPharazonV: yes, I do, if you can tolerate some of the humor :-)
VardaValar1: We will expect him to type something in Latin for us : )
TurgonjustTurgon: sis says hi
VardaValar1: Hi back : )
GilraenV: And Farmer's gone out for a birthday dinner... I'm not quite
sure for who. so he doesn't know if he'll be back for the meet at all
ArPharazonV: his own!
VardaValar1: Let's go into the meeting
TurgonjustTurgon: and mom will soon too, so I think I'll say it already
GilraenV: Hi to Turgon's sis ^^
VardaValar1: Since we are doing it anyway
GilraenV: well he said "me / dad"
GilraenV: so I got the impression joint, but wasn't sure
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn'
VardaValar1: Member news:
VardaValar1: What Gilraen just said : )
VardaValar1: Farmer is
celebrating his 15th birthday at a steakhouse
VardaValar1: The birthday is tomorrow but they can get together today
VardaValar1: Eonwe's computer
is having memory problems, so he's getting more memory and is on
VardaValar1: Orodreth is
working on his Latin homework, so bug him to type something in Latin
is in New Zealand
VardaValar1: going through the movie areas
VardaValar1: Her report is on the News
VardaValar1: She's still there and I can send her questions if you have
VardaValar1: Any other member news?
Aerandir V: what is "Embla-TV"?
VardaValar1: TV members are our Tolkien-only
VardaValar1: People who do Tolkien but don't game
Aerandir V: ok
VardaValar1: Some of our gamers switch to that
VardaValar1: Some never game and start as that
VardaValar1: They don't have to have Tolkien names
VardaValar1: Hers is Norse mythology
VardaValar1: Any other member news?
MJKeenan123 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Oropher : )
TurgonjustTurgon: got my comp out of the shop yesterday
VardaValar1: Yay! How is it working now?
VardaValar1: Can you play WC3?
Celebrimbor V has left the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: haven't tried yet
TurgonjustTurgon: still at my moms :-)
VardaValar1: Maglor-V updated the WoW page
VardaValar1: He requests feedback
VardaValar1: Tolkien Encyclopedia:
VardaValar1: I don't usually mention this but I feel like it
VardaValar1: New pictures added
VardaValar1: 2 new ones by another Tolkien-only member
VardaValar1: He that Walks Unseen-TV
VardaValar1: "The Muse and the Boy of the Blue Fountain"
VardaValar1: That is a tribute to JRRT
Eonwe Valar: A very active guy he is,..
VardaValar1: "Laden Trees in the Circle of Fire"
VardaValar1: Indeed :-)
VardaValar1: He is trying to bring in another poet as a Tolkien-only
also, so he's scouting too
VardaValar1: The Links page serves the Encyc and gamers and helps with
VardaValar1: Shire Post is a new link
VardaValar1: has Maps and is also in the Maps section
VardaValar1: It also has a lot of rp's going, text
VardaValar1: Under Images, I added Blizzard Fan Art
VardaValar1: The "fan art" looks pretty professional. Enjoy
VardaValar1: We did a lot of gaming news in the before-meeting
VardaValar1: Any Gaming News?
VardaValar1: Oops. sorry
VardaValar1: Any more Web news?
VardaValar1: Most of my fellow web weavers have been having comp
VardaValar1: Any Gaming News?
ArPharazonV: hang on...
VardaValar1: Strong fingernails, no problem
ArPharazonV: well, ok... nothing much, but I just wanted to remind you
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
ArPharazonV: about the Ringwars world preview event
ArPharazonV: 29-31, this month
ArPharazonV: so, Friday to Sunday in the coming week
VardaValar1: For those who don't know what Ringwars is, could you tell
ArPharazonV: I mean Guildwars
ArPharazonV: I meant the Guildwars world preview event
VardaValar1: Eonwe has some WoW news
ArPharazonV: of which the details were mentioned a few meetings ago
ArPharazonV: ok, :-X
Eonwe Valar: It seems right now we're going to have some problems
forming the Guild in WOW
Eonwe Valar: Blizzard's implementing localized Servers, so North
America will only be able to get on North American servers, Europe only
European servers, etc
TurgonjustTurgon: Blizzard hasn't ruled out exceptions though
Eonwe Valar: I'm sure everyone can see the problem already
ArPharazonV: Turgon and I are gonna feel lonely...
TurgonjustTurgon: no I'm not
VardaValar1: We have a lot of guys in Europe
TurgonjustTurgon: I have my solution at the ready :-)
GwaihirValar: For those who haven't seen yet...
Eonwe Valar: How have they not ruled out exceptions?
GwaihirValar: in regards to that
GwaihirValar: I made a post in their suggestions forum
VardaValar1: A petition for us to add to, was it not?
GwaihirValar: it's a petition asking Blizzard to allow people to, if
they are willing to risk the lag, play on non-local servers
TurgonjustTurgon: well, as far as I understood, they said it could be
in some cases that people from Europe are allowed in the NA servers
Eonwe Valar: Seems by saying you need a billing address in the zone you
intend tyo play, that's pretty well rules out Europe in the US East
ArPharazonV: what's the name of the topic?
GwaihirValar: there's a link to it
GwaihirValar: from our forums
Eonwe Valar: Gwaihir shows more hope in this matter than I do :}
TurgonjustTurgon: as for the solution if this doesn't work, have
someone from North America sign up a new account for you, then you
mail, or money transfer to them and voila, you have a North American
GwaihirValar: I doubt it'll work, BUT it's worth a try
GwaihirValar: especially if it gets support
Eonwe Valar: Everyone who'd like to try and convince Blizzard to allow
mixing of servers, go to Gwaihir's post and add your 2 copper :}
Eonwe Valar: 2 gold would be better, but copper will do :}
VardaValar1: 2 minerals for the BW guys
Eonwe Valar: no vespene, please :}
MaglorV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Maglor
TurgonjustTurgon: a little gas could work tho :-P
GwaihirValar: would attract attention, that's for sure
VardaValar1: WoW talk
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, that's it for me :}
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe
VardaValar1: Sauron just walked in and says hi
VardaValar1: Any other gaming news?
Eonwe Valar: Arathorn added some new uniques to the ME mod page,
did he not?
VardaValar1: Aye, thanks : )
VardaValar1: Any other news?
GwaihirValar: by the way, for the news page... I'll post the link here
VardaValar1: I have a Tolkien topic, but am open to suggestions as well
VardaValar1: Thanks, Gwaihir : )
GwaihirValar: my pleasure
VardaValar1: Business meeting now over. Going to Tolkien
GaldorV has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: Maglor and I are getting together for an update of
the WoW page
GaldorV: Aiya all
VardaValar1: Aiya Galdor
VardaValar1: Good to hear. Maglor also requested feedback on the page
VardaValar1: WoW guys especially need to make comments
VardaValar1: Tolkien topic:
sauronjag: Okay folks, I need to get going, tried to stay as long as I
could :-) have another meeting in 10 minutes. Namarie
VardaValar1: How far-reaching were
the results of the cry of the gull heard by the Fellowship as they
VardaValar1: Namarie, Lungorthin : )
sauronjag has left the room.
VardaValar1: What was left of the Fellowship at that time were Aragorn,
Gimli, and Legolas
Aerandir V: the ship legolas built brought a drarf into valinor
Aerandir V: *dwarf
VardaValar1: with the Grey Company and the sons of Elrond along
VardaValar1: and a lot of dead folk
VardaValar1: True, Aerandir. No other dwarf came that way
ArPharazonV: at last that 'lot of dead folk' was able to cross the sea
as well, at that point :-)
VardaValar1: I wonder if Gimli went to Aule's Halls afterwards and
perhaps visited Valinor from there?
VardaValar1: They were human shades
ArPharazonV: but even Men must pass to Mandos for a time
VardaValar1: Aye, for reflection
ArPharazonV: before leaving Ea for the last time
ArPharazonV: I thought Aule's Halls were only for dead Dwarves?
VardaValar1: Right. Gimli would have died in Valinor
ArPharazonV: well, short trip, in that case...
VardaValar1: Aye : )
Aerandir V: but what about befor he died?
Aerandir V: he was alive on the boat
VardaValar1: I wonder if those in the various Halls could speak with
those in Valinor?
ArPharazonV: hmm... some discussion of aging in the Histories
VardaValar1: Yes, Gimli went living to Valinor and lived out his time
Eonwe Valar: iF someone from Valinor visited, perhaps.
ArPharazonV: something about mortals living their entire lives without
hardly seeing any chance in his surroundings
ArPharazonV: for the animals and such all had very long lives in Valinor
VardaValar1: If they were born there
ArPharazonV: but the humans and Dwarves, should they travel to Valinor,
would have had a normal span of life, in years of the Sun
VardaValar1: It is said in the Letters that Shadowfax went with Gandalf
VardaValar1: Didn't Valinor cause mortals to age faster?
Aerandir V: how many halls of dead(ish) people are there in valinore
mandos has halls for elves and men, aule has halls for dwarves, there
are the bad numenoreans somewhere under there too
ArPharazonV: no, but time seemed to pass slower in Valinor... so from
Valinorian view, mortals did age faster
VardaValar1: You seem to have catalogued them, Aerandir, pretty well
VardaValar1: We had this discussion in the forum, about the fast aging
ArPharazonV: and the bad numenoreans are locked in the Caves of the
Forgotten, not really fitting between those other halls...
VardaValar1: Aye, can't have them enjoying paradise if they are being
Eonwe Valar: I suspect it was an affect similar to what happened to the
Elves in Valinor. They would've become stronger and mightier, but the
fire of their spirits also would've become stronger and begun to
consume their physical form,..
VardaValar1: I also suggest that the cry of the gull was the ultimate
end of elves living in organized fashion in Middle-earth and therefore
their ultimate loss.
Eonwe Valar: So too many Elves heard the gull's cry, and they went over
the Sea, so too few were left to fill their kingdoms?
VardaValar1: The gull we are talking about was at the time of the
attack on Umbar
Eonwe Valar: ok, a specific gull then :}
VardaValar1: aye : )
VardaValar1: Am I being too vague? :-)
ArPharazonV: ok, now I must think back in my memory...
VardaValar1: I described who was present
ArPharazonV: I've recently started rereading, but haven't gotten
further than Bilbo in Beorn's house ;-)
VardaValar1: Ok, Legolas heard the cry of the gull and was hit with
VardaValar1: Was this a problem?
ArPharazonV: lemme see... attack on Umbar... was it really Umbar? I
thought it was Pelergir (or whatever the name was)?
VardaValar1: Remember the Corsairs of Umbar?
Eonwe Valar: Umbar
ArPharazonV: yes, but I thought they intercepted the fleet or something
VardaValar1: The gull was left out of the movie
TurgonjustTurgon: Pelargir :-)
ArPharazonV: indeed, Turgon...
VardaValar1: Before the group got to the ships, they heard the gull
ArPharazonV: but anyway, the battle actually took place at Umbar
itself? I did not know that...
VardaValar1: JRRT sort of skipped over the dead taking out the Corsairs
TurgonjustTurgon: well, he did say that the undead swarmed over the
corsairs, flinging some into the water and others jumping overboard in
VardaValar1: Oh well. How did this affect the elven kingdoms?
Eonwe Valar: Well, Mirkwood had no heir, but that only matters if
ArPharazonV: was Legolas the only child?
VardaValar1: or if he leaves
VardaValar1: Legolas is the only child mentioned
VardaValar1: Even in the battle against Dol Guldur when Thranduil and
Celeborn link up, no other son is mentioned
VardaValar1: no wife
VardaValar1: They should have been mentioned at least
VardaValar1: This suggests that Thranduil would have had no family left
in Middle-earth after Legolas left
MaglorV: hehe, an elven child out of wedlock? that happens?
Eonwe Valar: Elves rarely had more than one or two children,
Fëanor being an exception.
VardaValar1: He would have repaired Lasgalen and gone to his family
Eonwe Valar: No it doesn't maglor, not with Elves
GwaihirValar: Elrond being another exception...
VardaValar1: Can't have an elf child out of wedlock, since the act is
marriage with or without ceremony
VardaValar1: Elrond was part human, too
GwaihirValar: that's true, but his wife, who was actually HAVING the
Eonwe Valar: I should probably coprrect that to "a few" children
Eonwe Valar: hence including anyone with 3 children :}
GwaihirValar: Aye, there are more than a few cases of 3...
VardaValar1: Twins could count as one : )
GwaihirValar: lol :-)
VardaValar1: One egg splits in two
ArPharazonV: hmm... I was thinking of expecting a second sibling in the
RP... a little sister on the way... that would give me a brother and a
GwaihirValar: not always...
Eonwe Valar: I don't know if anyone having twins would agree 2 counts
as one :}
VardaValar1: But true if identical and these were
GwaihirValar: that's Identical... fraternal are two eggs get fertalized
VardaValar1: Right, Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: were they? I don't remember it ever describing either of
VardaValar1: JRRT keeps us re-reading : )
Eonwe Valar: Smart guy :} if he could sell a book for every time we had
to go back and look up something, he would be richer than Bill Gates :}
Eonwe Valar: would've been, anyway :}
VardaValar1: Lorien lost Galadriel, the ring no longer protected it,
the people mostly left, some to Ithilien and others to the West
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe!
VardaValar1: estate would be
VardaValar1: So Lorien was gone
GwaihirValar: not sure the estate being that rich is a good thing...
VardaValar1: Rivendell's Elrond left to the West
GwaihirValar: just think, if Tolkien hadn't had financial troubles, we
would've never gotten the LotR movies :-)
VardaValar1: without his sons or daughter
GwaihirValar: His sons may have followed at a later date though
VardaValar1: JRRT spent the money for film rights
GwaihirValar: oh, I know, but if he hadn't had those troubles, the
rights would've never gotten out there
VardaValar1: If the children did not go with Elrond, they had to choose
GwaihirValar: that wasn't what it said...
GwaihirValar: Elrond left with Frodo, yet Sam left on a later ship...
which means there WAS a later ship
GwaihirValar: they could have easily left on that ship
VardaValar1: They were supposed to go at the same time as Elrond or
lose immortality, more boats or no
Eonwe Valar: assuming it could hold more than a Hobbit
GwaihirValar: Really? I don't remember reading that anywhere... that in
GwaihirValar: I think Celeborn went on that boat as well...
Eonwe Valar: That's in the Appendices
VardaValar1: There were other boats. Legolas even made one
VardaValar1: Appendices are loaded : )
ArPharazonV: would they regain their immortality if they travelled to
Valinor in a later boat?
VardaValar1: They had to make their choice
GwaihirValar: but I don'tr remember it saying that their choice had to
be made by the time Elrond left
GaldorV: I remember reading about Legolas making a boat too...
MaglorV: to go with Gimli
GwaihirValar: aye, Legolas made a white boat and sailed off with Gimli
VardaValar1: Legolas made a gray ship aye
Eonwe Valar: Would Arwen have? no. Same applies to the brothers
ArPharazonV: hey, what are the odds of Sam traveling with Legolas and
MaglorV: I think it would have metioned that
GwaihirValar: it says the two of them travelled alone
VardaValar1: He would have been dead of old age
GaldorV: Sam left years later
VardaValar1: but he went on an earlier boat
GwaihirValar: but Sam DID go
VardaValar1: Yes, but Sam did not go with Legolas and Gimli
GilraenV: I should go
GwaihirValar: the last of the Ringbearers to depart middle earth
ArPharazonV: yes, I know he went... I just wasn't sure if it was
actually stated that he did not go with those 2
GilraenV: namarie all
GilraenV has left the room.
GwaihirValar: however, where in the appendices does it say that the
choice had to be made by the time Elrond left?
MaglorV: sam went 1482 and legolas and gimli went in 1541
VardaValar1: Legolas and Gimli were the last of the Fellowship to leave
GwaihirValar: I remember reading through them, but I never saw that...
ArPharazonV: ah, ok, those dates were what I was looking for
Eonwe Valar: "Then suddenly the foresight of of his kindred came to
him, and he said:
GwaihirValar: Hmm... no, Aragorn was still in Middle Earth at that time
GwaihirValar: he hadn't died yet...
VardaValar1: Legolas would not leave until Aragorn died, then he went
the same year
GwaihirValar: did he?
Aerandir V has left the room.
GwaihirValar: Oh, hmm... I thought he lived later than 1541...
MaglorV: same year
ArPharazonV: no, he started building the ship the same year Aragorn died
MaglorV: March 1st 1541
MaglorV: he died
Eonwe Valar: 'But lo! Master Elrond, the years of your abiding run
short at last, and the choice must soon be laid on your children, to
part either with you or with Middle-Earth.'"
ArPharazonV: it is not stated that he went to the West that year as
well, could have taken some years for the ship to be built
MaglorV: then Legolas built a grey ship and Gimli went with him
MaglorV: Last writing in Appendix B
MaglorV: it says they left in 1541
ArPharazonV: all that is said is that he built the ship when/after
MaglorV: but its under the year 1541
ArPharazonV: it is not stated he finished the boat that same year, or
made the trip that year
MaglorV: so 1541 or soon after they left
ArPharazonV: well, ok..
Eonwe Valar: "'What is that doom?' said Aragorn
ArPharazonV: it's stated under 1541.. but perhaps only because that is
the last sure date
VardaValar1: See the very last entry in App B
VardaValar1: Does not say anything iffy about it
ArPharazonV: I'm just stating a possibility
GwaihirValar: he died on his birthday
Eonwe Valar: 'That so long as I abide here, she shall live with the
youth of the Eldar,' answered Elrond, ' and when I depart, she shall go
with me, if she so chooses.'"
GwaihirValar: how coincidental...
ArPharazonV: there is nothing coincidental in Tolkien ;-)
VardaValar1: 1541 In this year on March 1st came at last the Passing of
King Elessar. Then Legolas built a grey ship in Ithilien, and sailed
down Anduin and so over Sea;
VardaValar1: and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf.
VardaValar1: And when that ship passed an end was come in Middle-earth
of the Fellowship of the Ring."
Eonwe Valar: My quotes are from Appendix A, the Tale of Aragorn and
Arwen. Though I put them in backwards :}
GwaihirValar: I thought he lived longer than 210 years...
GwaihirValar: hmm, guess not
ArPharazonV: yes, I know... I just read that... but I'm still not sure
if that all took place in that one year
VardaValar1: It says it is in that year
VardaValar1: It does not add another year
ArPharazonV: you don't even see my point, do you?
VardaValar1: I see that you are saying that you think they could have
MaglorV: i see your point
VardaValar1: But I see no way for it to be proven
VardaValar1: I am stuck with it saying that year he sailed
TurgonjustTurgon: I seem to remember that it is said somewhere that
Legolas and Gimli wandered the lands of Middle-Earth for a while before
building a boat and sailing to Valinor
GwaihirValar: I would've sworn I saw somewhere it saying that Aragorn
lived more than 210... but... I'm probably imagining things again
ArPharazonV: and I see no sure way of it to be disproven... the post
leaves just that tiny bit of opening
VardaValar1: Very very skinny opening
ArPharazonV: I'm just thinking... how can 1 person build an entire ship
in a year?
VardaValar1: Legolas and Gimli did visit places together
TurgonjustTurgon: in LotR he was 90 I believe, so it´s a matter
of math :-)
GwaihirValar: it was just a small boat
VardaValar1: A guy down the block from us builds boats in his garage
GwaihirValar: Well, Turgon, I went from his date of birth to date of
VardaValar1: It's not a giant ship, just two guys
GwaihirValar: he lived EXACTLY 210 years according to the tale of years
MaglorV: maybe it just says Legolas built it, as opposed to Legolas had
it built (ie more than just him)
GwaihirValar: it was like a small fishing boat
ArPharazonV: it says, in the quote, that it was a grey ship... I'd
hardly call a small fishing boat a ship
VardaValar1: Be careful talking around sailors then : )
TurgonjustTurgon: well, he is of the line of the Numenoreans, thus a
long life was in his blood
VardaValar1: They might punch you for that
VardaValar1: It was a grey ship, could carry at least two a pretty good
ArPharazonV: a boat is a boat.. and a ship is a big boat
TurgonjustTurgon: a small boat can be called a ship for a few people
TurgonjustTurgon: that same ship is a boat to a lot
VardaValar1: They needed to be able to handle storms at sea, so it was
more than a rowboat : )
TurgonjustTurgon: the difference between ship and boat in theory only
lies within the definition that was given to them
MaglorV: haha, semantics
TurgonjustTurgon: there are no personal feelings taken into that
TurgonjustTurgon: indeed Maglor
VardaValar1: Elves love to play with semantics : )
ArPharazonV: row row row your boat, gently down the sea...
TurgonjustTurgon: would you row a BOAT on the sea?
VardaValar1: afk will scroll
GaldorV has left the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: anyways, I think there is another thing that could be
taken into account for the ship being a boat
ArPharazonV: 'row your ship' sounds so... silly
Good Times695 has entered the room.
Good Times695: Aiya
MaglorV: the greeks rowed their ships
MaglorV: very little sail usage then
ArPharazonV: yeah, but they weren't with 2 people a ship
MaglorV: haha, true
Good Times695: whoops wrong name
ArPharazonV: they had 3000 slaves in each vessel
Good Times695 has left the room.
MaglorV: i dont know about 3000, but they did have a lot of rowers
MoriFinwe has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: Legolas and Gimli already having obtained a free
passage to Valinor could have been bestowed with the blessings of Ulmo,
and this the favourable winds of Uinen and a calm sea by Osse
TurgonjustTurgon: thus a large ship would not be needed
ArPharazonV: and how did they know they had already obtained a free
passage to Valinor?
MoriFinwe has left the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: besides, they were the last to leave Middle-Earth,
I´d hate to see 2 people man a `ship`:-)
ArPharazonV: ever played the Monkey Island series?
ArPharazonV: always a crew of 4 people on the ship ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon: ever seen Pirates of the Caribbean?
TurgonjustTurgon: 2 men to a clipper
TurgonjustTurgon: it IS possible, just a LOT of work
ArPharazonV: ever seen the Andromeda-series? huge starship, one of the
biggest in the universe, operated by 5 people
TurgonjustTurgon: besides, they have to sleep now and then, and a lone
person manning a vessel
TurgonjustTurgon: seen it
TurgonjustTurgon: and that ship is more or less run by its computer and
ArPharazonV: hey, did you see yesterday's episode? Exciting ending,
don't you think?
ArPharazonV: yeah, ok... that's true
TurgonjustTurgon: only saw that Andromeda got some virus or sumthin and
didn´t recognize the captain as the captain anymore
TurgonjustTurgon: and then switched to Trumps heir :-)
ArPharazonV: ah, ok...
ArPharazonV: so you missed the part where the ship was overrun by a
mass of Magog
ArPharazonV: the entire crew was heavily injured and captured....
TurgonjustTurgon: fireball throwing imps?
ArPharazonV: quantity over quality!
TurgonjustTurgon: oops, that´s Heroes of Might and Magic 3 lol
Eonwe Valar: I guess this means Tolkien chat is dead? :}
ArPharazonV: yeah, sorry I changed the topic
ArPharazonV: you wanna return to Tolkien?
TurgonjustTurgon: nope, deviating to other things in rl relating to it
TurgonjustTurgon: as usual
ArPharazonV: anyway, the Magog have built a huge construction
Eonwe Valar: What's left to talk about? Seems we were arguing about
whether Legolas and GImli took a "boat" or a "ship" :}
ArPharazonV: the 'worldship', constructed out of 20 planets and a sun
Eonwe Valar: I say they took an aircraft carrier loaded with F-15
ArPharazonV: I can't wait for the next episode.. too bad I have to wait
for another 6 days
TurgonjustTurgon: nah, they took a battlecruiser and had
Aragorn´s soul with it as its supercomputer running it :-)
Eonwe Valar: hmm somehow that's disturbing :}
TurgonjustTurgon: well, he does go to Mandos
GwaihirValar: it's dinnertime... so I'll be afk for a little while
TurgonjustTurgon: and that´s one way to go lol
ArPharazonV: through space?
ArPharazonV: no, wait
ArPharazonV: a battlecruiser's a ship, right?
ArPharazonV: as in: big boat?
ArPharazonV: on the water?
TurgonjustTurgon: as in like BattleShip Row
MaglorV: well, dinner time for me, namarie
ArPharazonV: you sunk my battleship!
Eonwe Valar: Out on the water
Eonwe Valar: the Island of the Dead that Live
MaglorV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: There they dwelt until they left the world and
Eonwe Valar: still their deeds live forth in songs.
Eonwe Valar: wb :}
Eonwe Valar: I suspect Tolkien chat is a bit on the dead side :}
TurgonjustTurgon: welcome back
ArPharazonV: island of the dead that live...
VardaValar1: JRRT called it a ship so it's a ship :-)
ArPharazonV: Beren and Luthien, right?
VardaValar1: Legolas hardly needed sleep
ArPharazonV: what were their names in the Sellamillion...
VardaValar1: and do we want to know? : )
TurgonjustTurgon: not really
Eonwe Valar: aye, not really
VardaValar1: Rivendell was pretty well gone
Eonwe Valar: Don't think I'll be reading that parody :}
VardaValar1: Elrond left, sons were mortal, Celeborn went to the West
VardaValar1: Ithilien colony was there to heal the woods from the
damage by Mordor
ArPharazonV: ah, yes, Belend and Luthwoman
VardaValar1: Their leader left, and they may have done like the others
and left after that
ArPharazonV: Lüthwoman, to be exact
VardaValar1: Well, I guess you are right, Eonwe. It's dead and no rez
scroll in sight
TurgonjustTurgon: ewww.... that does it, never ever going to read it
ArPharazonV: as far as I can tell, Turgon, you're king Gondor
ArPharazonV: who dies valiantly in battle
TurgonjustTurgon: double ewwwww
Eonwe Valar: Seems there's no willing audience for more from the
parody, Phar :}
TurgonjustTurgon: aye, I think I´m gonna go as well
ArPharazonV: willing? who's talking about a willing audience? :-)
TurgonjustTurgon has left the room.
ArPharazonV: I don't want to scare you all away
ArPharazonV: guess that's too lat
Eonwe Valar: too late :}
Eonwe Valar: j/k :}
Eonwe Valar: Really, I need to go as well. I have alot due this week.
ArPharazonV: well, guess I'm going as well
Eonwe Valar: take care everyone :}
ArPharazonV: I'll send a transcript to Varda
Eonwe Valar: don't forget to save a transcipt :}
Eonwe Valar: have fun and sleep well :}
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: well, guess that's it
ArPharazonV: I made an abrupt ending...
ArPharazonV: Namarie... and I shall never mention the Sellamillion again