Valar Guild

October 17, 2004 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm ESDT, 22:00 GMT
Back to News 

Transcript team:
    Ar-Pharazon, FarmerMaggot, Varda 
Attending (19):
    Ar-Pharazon, Arwen, Caranthir/MoriFinwe, Celebrimbor, Elwing, Eonwe (presiding), Finarfin, Fladrif, Gil-galad/Xseanzee disco, Gilraen, Grimbold, Gwaihir, Huan/LiberalHound, Mablung/DemonicHorde69, Farmer Maggot, Orodreth, Oropher/MJKeenan123, Turgon, Varda

Meeting Begins - Eonwe presiding
    Face to face meeting
    Tolkien Encyc: Poetry
    Valar Guild Programming Group - Farmer's comments: started it, URLs for tutorials. Time to meet, AIM room to meet, programmers so far.
    D2X: Middle-earth mod uniques page 
    RotK Extended DVD
    Evarayn - MUD, Orodreth plays as Alasseo
    Dungeon Siege Ar-Pharazon having trouble with TFT, will be mostly on DS.
    Hobbit Walking Song "The Road Goes Ever On". Topic from Orodreth
    Tolkien Songs and Music, in general

You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
Eonwe Valar: Hi Doctor Nick! :}
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: heya Elbereth :}
ArPharazonV: well, didn't the same thing happen to me?
Orodreth V: She's Varda, silly things like laws of physics mean nothing to her.
Eonwe Valar: I didn't see you leave the room, Phar
ArPharazonV: I came in the channel twice, but the first time I didn't see a list of people, and couldn't type
ArPharazonV: so I thought.. perhaps same thing happening to Varda
VardaValar1: Maybe the new firewall update got you too
VardaValar1: Had to unblock
VardaValar1: Nice big early crowd :-)
Eonwe Valar: So is that what windows is prompting me to update? :}
VardaValar1: Aye, security stuff
Eonwe Valar: Figured it must be important with the big yellow shield :}
ArPharazonV: service pack 2...
ArPharazonV: update of the.. month, at least?
VardaValar1: I haven't hit the big yellow shield yet
ArPharazonV: anyway, I just want to say.. I received my first 3-day ban today..
ArPharazonV: on the war3 forums
VardaValar1: For why?
ArPharazonV: I made a single post of a single line in a spamthread... writing my complaints about it
VardaValar1: Could say whyfore : )
ArPharazonV: and boom, moderator shows up, bans everyone in the thread
VardaValar1: Ahh, group ban got you
VardaValar1: Zillion emails here, guild type
VardaValar1: Leave a day or two, it piles up
ArPharazonV: which takes away 3 days from my participation in the elimination game :-)
VardaValar1: too late to ask the moderator to see what your comment was?
ArPharazonV: luckily (yes I'm being selfish here) all my competition posted in the same spamthread ;-)
VardaValar1: Has Elatan been by?
Eonwe Valar: Just realized I haven't set a text color for my new comp on AIM :}
Eonwe Valar: Elatan hasn't been by yet, no.
ArPharazonV: I saw him once, he invited me in a ringwars-game... but I had to go to bed, so I had no time to join him
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe
ArPharazonV: btw, the rp has come to a halt again
ArPharazonV: and this time, I can't be blamed for it :-)
VardaValar1: I wasn't home, Phar
VardaValar1: Arathorn has no internet
FladrifV: /me is going to sleep
VardaValar1: but I'll be posting
ArPharazonV: mara lome, flad
VardaValar1: Fladrif, did you have anything to have us do in the meeting?
VardaValar1: topic, gaming comment you want passed on?
FladrifV: had news but dunno it anymore so go on :-)
FladrifV: I'll say it when I remember it again
VardaValar1: Not meeting time yet : )
ArPharazonV: M:TG battles with Turgon? ;-)
FladrifV: i know but already sleeping time :P
FladrifV: lol I had indeed some battles with turgon
ArPharazonV: brb
ArPharazonV: back
ArPharazonV: was getting some orange juice....
ArPharazonV: and for some reason, I'm feeling colder than I have all day...
ArPharazonV: guess all that time the juice spent in the fridge wasn't that helpful ;-)
HearNoEvil80 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
HearNoEvil80: Aiya
HearNoEvil80: lettme change names..brb
HearNoEvil80 has left the room.
Orodreth V: I walked around 5 miles in near-freezing drizzle. On a highway half the time.
VardaValar1: Accident to your car?
Orodreth V: No.
Grimbold V has entered the room.
Orodreth V: Got left at church.
VardaValar1: Aiya Grimbold : )
Grimbold V: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: btw, small tidbit of news: TFT froze again today, three times in a row... so I put it in a far away corner, and will concentrate on Dungeon Siege for a while... so don't expect to see me often on bnet
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Seems like someone could've given you a ride or a phone call at least
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Grimbold V: saw you on D2 the other day, but you were afk
Grimbold V: you play dungeon siege ArPhar I play it too. Do you play multi or single?
ArPharazonV: Single, for the time... trying to finish the campaign 4 times
Orodreth V: By the time I figured I was abandoned, everyone I knew had left.
Grimbold V: hehe
VardaValar1: Sauron and Bilbo play Dungeon Siege too, still going through single, then hope to multi-play
ArPharazonV: I'm going solo with my main each time, with every type...
Grimbold V: I'm on the legends of arana right now...kinda confusing atm
Grimbold V: brb grabbing food
VardaValar1: ouch Oro. No phone even?
ArPharazonV: lol, I got legends of Aranna too... but it's still awaiting my nature mage to finish the original DS campaign :-)
TurgonjustTurgon has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArPharazonV: anyway, if anybody wants to play multi with me, just say so... I'm always in for a game, provided I've got the time
ArPharazonV: Aiya
TurgonjustTurgon: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Heya :}
ArPharazonV: Grimbold, do you have Windows XP?
TurgonjustTurgon: so, how are things this day?
Eonwe Valar: so far so good :}
TurgonjustTurgon: good, that's better than my place
TurgonjustTurgon: my new comp crashed within 10 days of purchase LOL
LiberalHound has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya?
Eonwe Valar: LiberalHound = Huan
ArPharazonV: oh, ok
Eonwe Valar: Having probalems using other names apparently
Eonwe Valar: problems even
ArPharazonV: did you ever spell 'even' wrong, Eonwe? ;-)
Eonwe Valar: don't think so :}
Eonwe Valar: ok taking roll :}
VardaValar1: Back
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
Eonwe Valar: wb :}
VardaValar1: Aiya Huan
LiberalHound: Aiya
Orodreth V: In the middle of a timed quest in the game I'm playing, so..
VardaValar1: scroll is good
Eonwe Valar: roll taken :}

Meeting Begins:
Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo :}
VardaValar1: Eonwe will be presiding : )
Eonwe Valar: Membership: Stands about where it did last week :}
Eonwe Valar: Also, Varda, Elwing and I had a chance to meet face-to-face :}
ArPharazonV: was it all you expected?
VardaValar1: It was great : )
FladrifV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: She was the same person as she is here, aye :}
Eonwe Valar: It's always good to meet the person behind the keyboard when you have a chance :}
VardaValar1: Aye!
GwaihirValar: you're tellin' me ;-)
VardaValar1: hehe, engagements not required, Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: *chuckles* I know
GilraenV: *laughs*
Eonwe Valar: Remember to be safe as well, though. Don't meet strangers in dark allies and that kind of thing :}
GwaihirValar: but I also met Eomer and Luthien... that was fun, except for the fact that I wasn't all that great company
Eonwe Valar: *alleys :}
VardaValar1: We both brought company
Farmer Maggot V: In case you didn't know LotR: RotK Extended Edition Preview Available
ArPharazonV: the only one I've met personally is Fladrif:-D
Eonwe Valar: That's for Tolkien or Web news, Fladrif :}
VardaValar1: Farmer. Hey, both start with F ;-)
Farmer Maggot V: woops, forgot meeting had started ;-)
Eonwe Valar: er, Farmer, aye :} sorry :}
Eonwe Valar: Any other member news?
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: Tulkas has a new email
VardaValar1: rob_aitchison(AT)
VardaValar1: Expected it to say com, but he said ca
Eonwe Valar: I've seen some like that,.. usually spam, but guess this one won't be :}
VardaValar1: Arathorn is emailing from a library, otherwise will be next month for internet
VardaValar1: ca would be Canada
VardaValar1: Elwing is driving home, plans to come to the meeting if a bit late
VardaValar1: We also met Eonwe's brother and mom
VardaValar1: Dracxil?
Eonwe Valar: I belive that's how he spells it :}
VardaValar1: Brother has been a guild-friend for a while
VardaValar1: Remembered the name midnight last night, : )
VardaValar1: That's all the member news I have
TurgonjustTurgon: played both D2 and wc3 with him
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Varda :} Glad to see you could make it to today's meeting after the drive :}
VardaValar1: Got in about an hour before the meeting : )
Eonwe Valar: :}

Eonwe Valar: Web news: Arathorn updated the ME mod uniques page with a couple of new elite items he found
MoriFinwe has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya
MoriFinwe: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Games page still waiting for me to get some time between classes and homework.
VardaValar1: and us taking your time this weekend ;-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: hmm... homework... could be a useful alternative to War3...
Eonwe Valar: Alatar has increased our space on the server. Watch us fill it up again :}
VardaValar1: : )
LiberalHound has left the room.
MoriFinwe has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Any other Web news?
VardaValar1: aye
VardaValar1: Alatar says he hopes to add even more space with
VardaValar1: I forget how he said it
VardaValar1: virtual server?
VardaValar1: New poem:
VardaValar1: "The Shadows Within"
VardaValar1: by He that Walks Unseen-TV
VardaValar1: Frodo's thoughts in Mordor
VardaValar1: Still re-working Encyc articles to have their own pages. Will probably take a month
VardaValar1: That's all I have
Eonwe Valar: If you want to give Varda more work 9she won't mind, really :}) send in some articles on characters we don't have in the encyclopedia, or more detailed ones we do have :}
VardaValar1: Please do!!
VardaValar1: Also making author pages
VardaValar1: Eonwe's is a mile long and barely started
Eonwe Valar: Believe it or not, we don't have articles on some of the Fellowship!
ArPharazonV: really? which ones?
VardaValar1: Why not take a look? : )
Eonwe Valar: pico one and it probably doesn't have one :}
VardaValar1: Also if you see listings with no links, that's a hint they need articles
Eonwe Valar: *pico=pick :}
VardaValar1: Some only have pictures
VardaValar1: I pulled my Legolas article off so he has zero
VardaValar1: Mine has to be re-done with better footnotes, among other things
VardaValar1: Look at Gimli's
ArPharazonV: wow, I looked at Legolas' first... and was astonished
VardaValar1: Be sure to check your own characters to see if they have decent articles
ArPharazonV: over a dozen pictures, and no text whatsoever
VardaValar1: We have a lot of articles that are just one or two lines, needing meatier essays
Eonwe Valar: Aye, you chose the name you have in the Guild, so you should know why you chose that person :} If you used this person as your answer to Ulmo's #1, half your work is done, and the other half is references :}
VardaValar1: More can always be added later from other books if you like
LiberalHound has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiyata
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
VardaValar1: Take a look at how much Elatan alone wrote for his Annals of Arda
VardaValar1: Surely a whole guild can do a bit better than we are
VardaValar1: *climbs off soapbox*
Eonwe Valar: All members are welcome to contrubte to the Encyclopedia, so don't be shy :}
Eonwe Valar: Any other Web news?
Farmer Maggot V: Aye
Eonwe Valar: Go ahead Farmer
Farmer Maggot V: LotR: RotK Extended Edition Preview Available
Farmer Maggot V: gah, even posting links in here says the message is too long......
ArPharazonV: paste it in 2, we'll figure out a way to combine them :-)
Eonwe Valar: give the web page and what links to click on,.. might be a bit easier
VardaValar1: Just post the main site and we can hunt
Farmer Maggot V: anyways, they're available from
Eonwe Valar: a nice little statue is coming with it :}
ArPharazonV: woot! Aragorn with the palantir!
Eonwe Valar: Hmm thought it was of Minas Tirith?
ArPharazonV: nope, you see him with the palantir
Eonwe Valar: hmm
ArPharazonV: and how cute... Faramir with Eowyn

Eonwe Valar: On to Gaming News :
VardaValar1: wait
Eonwe Valar: Somehow, the Blue Wizard Alatar managed to conjure his way into two betas :}
VardaValar1: Farmer has a programming group
Eonwe Valar: oops, sorry go ahead Varda
VardaValar1: Pardon
GwaihirValar: it's that cult following of his... those Easterlings can rig any contest ;-)
VardaValar1: (Minas Tirith is the miniature, the pics on the site are what Phar said)
ArPharazonV: (I was talking about the trailer)
TurgonjustTurgon: prolly due to Alatar's position on his radio-show :-)
Eonwe Valar: ah ok
TurgonjustTurgon: he's been going to the E3 for several years as well ...
Eonwe Valar: Farmer, did you have news about your programming group?
Farmer Maggot V: Erm some :-)
Eonwe Valar: go ahead :}
TurgonjustTurgon: anyways, I gotta go, my mom wants her comp back :-)
ArPharazonV: Namarie
TurgonjustTurgon: Namarie
TurgonjustTurgon has left the room.
Farmer Maggot V: gah, message too long again, 1 sec
Eonwe Valar: hehe
ArPharazonV: and I'll be leaving shortly as well... school starts early tomorrow, and I need my sleep :-)
Farmer Maggot V: Meetings are whenever we can get enough people in here, due to these 'time zone' things
Farmer Maggot V: and our first project will be a clock to deal with these 'time zones'
VardaValar1: all guild guys?
Farmer Maggot V: aye
VardaValar1: Forum helps get around time zones
Farmer Maggot V: We're learning Python, download (windows) here: n-2.3.exe
Celebrimbor V has entered the room.
Farmer Maggot V: And a good tutorial is located here, which I recommend you do if interested :-)
Farmer Maggot V: ut/
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: will you be programming this clock to convert to Valar Standard Time?
Celebrimbor V: AIYA
Farmer Maggot V: heh
VardaValar1: VST is same as EST, now ESDT
Farmer Maggot V: Fladrif suggested having a list of users and their time zone online, and then pulling it up for each user
VardaValar1: Like the clock where it shows your time and VST?
VardaValar1: Battlenet tells your time and California time, pardon. VST for us
Farmer Maggot V: heh
Farmer Maggot V: similiar, we haven't started yet heh
ArPharazonV: clocks? bnet? haven't noticed them..
Farmer Maggot V: /time
Orodreth V: We could do UST and VST.
VardaValar1: Type /time in Bnet
ArPharazonV: ok, thnx
Eonwe Valar: Using "VST" instead of "EST" makes it sound more interesting, also helps reflect it's the time we base most of our contacting (i.e. meetings and tournies) by
Farmer Maggot V: anyways, back to you Eonwe ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Farmer, and good luck to you guys :} Let us know how it's coming along too :}
Farmer Maggot V: thanks
Eonwe Valar: Any more web news? :}
Eonwe Valar: Ok, Gaming News :}
Eonwe Valar: As I said, Alatar is in two betas :} EQ2 and WoW (Everquest 2 and World of Warcraft)
Eonwe Valar: lucky lucky guy :}
Celebrimbor V: lol yeah
GwaihirValar: mind you, being in the WoW beta won't mean much soon
GwaihirValar: lol
Eonwe Valar: aye :} not once open beta begins :}
Eonwe Valar: (mentioned at last meeting: WoW open beta is projected to begin sometime soon)
GwaihirValar: Eo, I have a question about that... WoW was largely designed for the pvp aspect...(the whole horde vs alliance) however, will our main locale be on a pvp or pvm server?
Eonwe Valar: There's a new WC3 map
ArPharazonV: you mean pve?
GwaihirValar: same diff
Eonwe Valar: We will not be on a PvP server
Orodreth V: PvE?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, PvE
ArPharazonV: Player vs Environment
GwaihirValar: I've been perusing the d2x forums, so I'm accustomed to thinking pvm/pvp lately lol
Eonwe Valar: We will also not be on a role-playing server in order to give us more freedom to be the Valar Guild.
ArPharazonV: but we can still roleplay if we want, right? ;-)
VardaValar1: Right, Phar
Eonwe Valar: Well, yeah :} Just remember if you are Phar in the Guild, don't get mad if someone calls you Phar :}
ArPharazonV: let's see... my first character on our server will be Calion, and the second Arphy... I don't think it's that much trouble :-)
GwaihirValar: I may well play at least partially on the pvp servers... I must admit that the story aspect suits the pvp servers a little better... having followed the warcraft storyline since warcraft one ;-)
ArPharazonV: lol, me too.. don't worry, I've got an extra pair of characters for Europe pvp ;-)
VardaValar1: pvp as in player vs player or any dueling needs to be done with your outsider characters.
VardaValar1: It's not the guild way because it is not fellowship
Eonwe Valar: As long as it's not a guild character :} We only ask what we do of your Guild characters. Any outside characters is your business :}
Eonwe Valar: Any other questions about WoW?
GwaihirValar: The main thing is... this game is based in teams... there are two teams... so pvp is 100% fellowship... your 'fellowship' within that is the Alliance or the Horde specific... I understand the ideal that pvp is frowned upon generally
GwaihirValar: however... it's a part of the game itself... like those members playing counterstrike... it's an aspect of the game's story
VardaValar1: pvp is generally person vs person, and for those who don't understand, we mean murder, not when the game requires it
Farmer Maggot V: Anyways, off to dinner
GwaihirValar: Well, the 'pvp' servers on World of Warcraft, from those I've talked to
ArPharazonV: enjoy your meal
GwaihirValar: are Alliance vs Horde
VardaValar1: You understand. Since that is not murder, it's not the same thing
GwaihirValar: you can't backstab or anything like that...
ArPharazonV: hey, perhaps in the future the Forsaken will seperate
ArPharazonV: one of my pvp characters I'll have devoted to the Forsaken ;-)
GwaihirValar: Alright, I'm just making sure of that aspect... because I like the idea of team-based play
VardaValar1: Aye
GwaihirValar: I don't like pvp as it is in d2x, but the way it will be in wow, or the way it is in wc3... I enjoy a great deal
Eonwe Valar: In the PvE servers, there will be limited pvp as I recall, and you'll know when you're going into those spots, but it'll be usually quest-related if I recall.
ArPharazonV: indeed, and mostly they will be npc's :-)
GwaihirValar: aye, it's quest-based... whereas in the pvp servers, it's like a giant war...
Eonwe Valar: Rather, you'll be in danger of pvp
GwaihirValar: you still get to do the pve quests, I believe, but the focus of it is the war between the horde and the alliance(and probably at some point later, the scourge)
ArPharazonV: the Scourge... they will probably be in an expansion
ArPharazonV: Arthas, that is... Kel'Thuzad's forces are still in Quel'Thalas
GwaihirValar: mhm, same with the Legion, and perhaps another group consisting of Naga, Blood Elves, etc.
GwaihirValar: that one I'd love to see
ArPharazonV: Draenei :-)
Eonwe Valar: Since we're going to be on a PvE server, you only need to worry about Guild characters on PvE :}
ArPharazonV: both alliance for me...
GwaihirValar: I'll prolly still use my general name theme :-)
GwaihirValar: I intend to have "Seluhir Curdu" the Night Elf Hunter as my first character if I start...
Eonwe Valar: Echo Isles is the new WC3 map, btw :}
ArPharazonV: lol, I'm getting a NE warrio
ArPharazonV: *r
ArPharazonV: no, wait.. that's the beta-elf
Eonwe Valar: Let's go ahead and continue the meeting :} we can talk about characters afterwards or in PM :}
GwaihirValar: yes, indeed
ArPharazonV: my first char will be a NE rogue, Calion.. including the throwing daggers :-D
ArPharazonV: ok, shutting up
Eonwe Valar: Orodreth, you had some gaming news?
GwaihirValar: I was just really curious about the pvp/pve thing... sorry to interrupt so pronouncedly :-)
Eonwe Valar: np, it's important everyone knows where the Guild stands before they go off and do something :}
Orodreth V: Yes..
GilraenV: I have to go now. Namarie all.
ArPharazonV: Namarie
VardaValar1: Good night
GilraenV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: well... I'm the only European left now?
Eonwe Valar: Go ahead Orodreth :}
Orodreth V: As this computer can't run anything besides starcraft, possibly, if I ever got a vanilla cd, I turned to my old friend, MUDs.
ArPharazonV: I'm sorry, but I guess I have to go...
ArPharazonV: I'll save and send a transcript
VardaValar1: Namarie, Phar
VardaValar1: Thanks
Orodreth V: I was playing off and on before everything happened a MUD called Evarayn, and that's now where I waste my time. I'm a really, really weak character on the continent of Loriana. It's nto a guild character, but I go by Alasseo.
ArPharazonV: and make the Tolkien and aftermeeting good, I wanna have something to read the following week ;-)
VardaValar1: hehe
Orodreth V: for anyone interested (perhaps I'd restart with incentive) the telnet address is port 23.
Orodreth V: I suggest you get a good mud client before you play (if anyone wants to) becasue reading black on white text really hurts the eyes.
Orodreth V: I personally use MUSHClient.
Orodreth V: And I'll shut up now.
VardaValar1: Where do you get MUSHClient?
VardaValar1: guess we can Google it : )
Orodreth V: Er.
Orodreth V: I'm actually not sure.
Orodreth V:
Orodreth V: It's shareware.
VardaValar1: shows several places on Google
Orodreth V: Ah.
Arwen V1 has left the room.
Orodreth V: Yes,, just checked the about box.
VardaValar1: 10 pages of results
VardaValar1: thanks
ArPharazonV: well, if the email has gotten through, I'll be leaving
ArPharazonV: Namarie
ArPharazonV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Got it, Phar
VardaValar1: Namarie
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Orodreth :} Hope you find some members to game with :}
Orodreth V: That's it from my side of the room..I'd of course be willing to help anyone learn the commands.
Eonwe Valar: Also a note about the WC3 branch: we've almost got a full page of people who are under the necessary 28 days. Thanks go out to those who logged in! If you haven't yet, please do as soon as you can :}
Eonwe Valar: Any more Gaming new?
Eonwe Valar: *news
Orodreth V: I would if I could. I'lls ee about getting to a friend's house who has WC3..
Eonwe Valar: Another warning: if you haven't logged in in more than 100 days, chances are good you'll have to make a new account and I'll have to retag you
Eonwe Valar: Myself, Gwaihir, Ossë, or Draugluin that is
VardaValar1: Catch him while he's here if you can ;-)
Farmer Maggot V: aftermeeting?
Eonwe Valar: If there's no more gaming news, Varda has further news on the programming group
VardaValar1: Farmer is here, if he'd like to give it instead?
VardaValar1: Or I will
Farmer Maggot V: heh, OK
VardaValar1: We generally don't do After meeting until after Tolkien, being a Tolkien guild
Farmer Maggot V: ah, I didn't know if that had been done yet, it's an hour in :P
VardaValar1: Ok
VardaValar1: The programming group can meet at the same time as the regular meeting
VardaValar1: Keep this chat open
VardaValar1: and put up the room:
VardaValar1: Valar Programmers
VardaValar1: Member list so far:
Elwing V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Fladrif, Orodreth, Gwaihir, Gilraen, ArPharazon, Farmer, and Grimbold
VardaValar1: Aiya Elwing : )
VardaValar1: That was it.
Elwing V: Aiya all!
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Varda :}
Eonwe Valar: Any other News of any kind?

Eonwe Valar: Ok, Orodreth then has a Tolkien Topic :}
Eonwe Valar: If Orodreth is there? :}
Orodreth V: Er.
Orodreth V: Yes, I am.
VardaValar1: (Programmer's room also now open)
VardaValar1: (bar at left)
Orodreth V: I don't know if you did this, becasue I was gone, but a few weeks ago I suggested that we discuss the Hobbit walking songs.
VardaValar1: Not yet. Wanted to have you present
Orodreth V: I got the idea after reading Tom Shippy's book on Tolkien.
Orodreth V: He mentions some of the similarities between the songs and I wanted to go more into that.
Orodreth V: I don't have the book with me, as it was lent to me, so I'll start with what I remember.
Orodreth V: Biblo's song the Road goes ever on is repeated in three places with different variations, both by Frodo if I recall correctly.
VardaValar1: Where it changes as the story line changes?
Orodreth V: Yes.
Orodreth V: I don't have anything with me, so someone else will have to take up the torch..
Orodreth V: Sorry. :-P
VardaValar1: Bilbo-V and Fangorn-Valar say hi
Celebrimbor V has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: they might be different stanzas?
Orodreth V: No, they're varations on a theme..
VardaValar1: (Quick break-in: Farmer's URL to Kamikaze Novel Writing:
VardaValar1: 42201&tid=192
VardaValar1: End interruption)
Eonwe Valar: I'm afraid I didn't study the poems too much, though I did try to memorize a couple a few years ago
VardaValar1: The idea of the Road changes as the LotR goes on
VardaValar1: Starting with starting on an adventure
GwaihirValar: I tried to memorize 'Namarie' at one point.. .but never paid much attention to the rest of the poetry...
VardaValar1: going on until the thought of going home is what dominates the road
VardaValar1: Some of us like poetry : )
GwaihirValar: I like poetry too... I just don't like looking too indepth into it heh
VardaValar1: So what is your Tolkien subject, Gwaihir?
GwaihirValar: Sorry, I don't understand the question entirely...
VardaValar1: What Tolkien subject would you like to discuss, eagle buddy?
GwaihirValar: hmm... I had something I wanted to discuss... came accross it on my reading... but now I can't remember.... something about Goldberry... one of the things that was said in that part...
GwaihirValar: hmm....
VardaValar1: Lot of what is said about her is in poem form : )
GwaihirValar: hehe ya, but it was one of the descriptive parts between all the nonsense and poetry ;-)
GwaihirValar: but I'm a little distracted at the moment...
VardaValar1: If you check the nonsense carefully, it's not
GwaihirValar: there're definite messages in the nonsense.. but some of it is definitely nonsense hehe
VardaValar1: I finally read the poem about Tom Bombadil in the Tolkien Reader
VardaValar1: Those two didn't hit it off so well at first
VardaValar1: Anyone still here, please type Aye
VardaValar1: Aye
Eonwe Valar: I would suspect the scariest thing to see this side of the Sea of Belegaer would be Tom when he's not singing "Hey doll! Merry dol!" :}
Eonwe Valar: and Aye :}
Eonwe Valar: or perhaps sem-Aye :}
Elwing V: Aye
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: I guess Tolkien chat is over?
VardaValar1: Must be sure to keep Tom in a good mood!
VardaValar1: I suspect we need a subject : )
VardaValar1: Shall we declare After-meeting?
Eonwe Valar: had one, but apparently only a very few have looked at the poetry closely enough to comment :}
Elwing V: Most legends (char and/or events) passed down in poem or song form it seems...easier to memorize, keep facts straight perhaps?
VardaValar1: Aye, Elwing. That's how the folks did it before writing was a big thing
Eonwe Valar: even today music can have influence. That's proven daily :}
VardaValar1: In Tolkien, songs had great power, fought with them in several places
GwaihirValar: half-aye
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe
GwaihirValar: :-)
VardaValar1: The eagle with one Aye closed
Eonwe Valar: open your Ayes :}
GwaihirValar: hehe
Elwing V: Since song of Valar was creation of...everything(?) seems any song would continue to have a sort of self-power
Eonwe Valar: Ok, After-meeting is now :}
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: Adds to the Song, or partakes of it, perhaps
Elwing V: Did ever specify if "music" was just notes or words too (just curious)
DemonicHorde69 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Started with song, rather than instruments
VardaValar1: Might have started with humming?
VardaValar1: then added words?
VardaValar1: Singles and pairs at first, before the whole group sang together
Eonwe Valar: A person is their instrument. How he/she plays out his/her life is how they contribute to the music.
Elwing V: Have heard some "wordless" song where various tones of "ahh" sound are done...quite moving
VardaValar1: That's true too, Eonwe
VardaValar1: Anything that is sung within a particular Vala's specialty might be seen as part of that one's theme and partake of his power?
Eonwe Valar: every movement creates sound, every sound can be measured. Music is sound after all :}
VardaValar1: Music is rhythm
Eonwe Valar: good music is rhythm :}
Eonwe Valar: bad music sounds like braying :}
Elwing V: You can feel the "beat" in your bones sometimes (not always comforting ;-)
Eonwe Valar: repetitive, unoriginal, uncoordinated,.. sound like a particular part of the Music? :}
VardaValar1: hehe - poor Morgoth
Elwing V: each listeners idea of good music can be different...(suppose they had Hobbit Rap or Orc Jazz?) hee
VardaValar1: eww rap
GwaihirValar: I certainly hope there was no Hobbit Rap...
VardaValar1: Orc Jazz? hmm
GwaihirValar: that's barely music...
Farmer Maggot V: hobbit rap... there's a concept
Eonwe Valar: somehow I don't think Hobbits would be "down" with that :}
Elwing V: Frodo and the Ring, Yo! :-)
FINARFIN010 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Fin :-)
FINARFIN010: Aiya All !! 8-)
VardaValar1: We were just talking about Song in Tolkien
VardaValar1: not very far into it
FINARFIN010: which one?
VardaValar1: Concept of Song
FINARFIN010: misic?
VardaValar1: Bombadil's, the Valar song of creation or sub-creation rather
FINARFIN010: ahhh the thought of Eru.
VardaValar1: Aye
Eonwe Valar: From what I see and hear of the rap on tv, most of it would be done by orcs :} not that in it's youth it couldn't have had its moment of purity as a sort of music.
VardaValar1: Every song afterwards might have aligned or misaligned with the original song
FINARFIN010: got to love a God who thinks in mulical terms.
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe : )
VardaValar1: musical aye. Mulical sounds more human ; )
Eonwe Valar: In the orchestra of the Ainur, what instruments would you ascribe to the Valar?
VardaValar1: scrolling back, not sure to say who said the song topic. Eonwe maybe?
Eonwe Valar: including Melkor
VardaValar1: Ah, the instruments are mentioned in the books
VardaValar1: but now I'm stuck with finding : )
VardaValar1: *flip flip*
FINARFIN010: hmmmm... Melkor I would give to guide the Jaze band.
VardaValar1: getting my books, still in sack in my room, brb
Eonwe Valar: I think I steered the topic into music from how lengends and history were passed down before writing
MJKeenan123 has left the room.
Orodreth V: I liiive.
VardaValar1: Yay!
VardaValar1: Welcome back
FINARFIN010: :-)
Orodreth V: *thunder in background, flashes of lightning*
FINARFIN010: *puts up unbrella.*
VardaValar1: Ulmo and Manwe at it again, are they?
Orodreth V: Over here they are.
Orodreth V: Not thundering, but there is rain.
FINARFIN010: varda, what othere "song" did you talk about in tolkien?
VardaValar1: Melkor had a "clamorous unison as of many trumpets braying upon a few notes"
VardaValar1: Only those two
VardaValar1: and Road
VardaValar1: Road Goes Ever On and On
VardaValar1: Orodreth was pointing out how it changed as the story changed
Orodreth V: I have LotR on my laptop but it's not turned on and it's in the other room..
FINARFIN010: would the sing of Luthien be appropreate
Eonwe Valar: Aren't trumpets typically associated with angelic beings?
FINARFIN010: singin
Elwing V: hobbits and elves seemed to often make up songs on moments notice
VardaValar1: Indeed, aye
FINARFIN010: and what of beren
FINARFIN010: he sang
VardaValar1: There's a spot where it lists diff instruments for diff Valar, still digging
FINARFIN010: and sam sang on the tower
Eonwe Valar: Beren was inspired :}
VardaValar1: and Finrod vs Sauron
FINARFIN010: and was answered by frodo
FINARFIN010: thus was the quest saved again
VardaValar1: Good one!
FINARFIN010: and who was chained upon the mountain by his wrist???...
Elwing V: some can project voice better in a song-note than just a yell
VardaValar1: Totally slipped my mind
FINARFIN010: wasn
VardaValar1: Maedhros
FINARFIN010: wasn't there song in that tale as well
VardaValar1: saved by Fingon
VardaValar1: *back to looking up instruments while you look up Maedhros*
FINARFIN010: :-)
Eonwe Valar: One thing I am not absolutely clear on there: Did Maedhros lose his hand or not?
FINARFIN010: yes
FINARFIN010: he lost his han
Orodreth V: Yes.
FINARFIN010: hand
VardaValar1: He lost it
GwaihirValar: I've always wanted to know what the songs of the Elves of Lorien said...
Eonwe Valar: On one hand (no pun, honestly) it sounded as if he did, and the other I later got the impression he remained whole
VardaValar1: He learned to sword fight with the other hand
GwaihirValar: the ones mourning Mithrandir
VardaValar1: It definitely said he lost his hand
GwaihirValar: which Legolas refused to translate... evil Legolas... ;-)
FINARFIN010: found it.
Elwing V: Perhaps by "lost" they meant "lost use of"
VardaValar1: "Ulmo's voice was deep"
VardaValar1: Legolas gave a general translation that it was a lament for Mithrandir
Orodreth V: almsot done with my quest..
VardaValar1: Valaroma, the great horn of Orome
FINARFIN010: "Thus Fingon found what he sought. For suddenly abobe him far and faint his song was taken up, and a voice answering called to him."
Eonwe Valar: ok got it. He did lose his hand
GwaihirValar: they knew they were laments to Mithrandir, Legolas refused to translate because it was too close to his heart still
FINARFIN010: then Ulmo must be a Basoon
VardaValar1: and horns of Orome's host
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: One of the things I thought cool about Medhros was that he became more deadly with his left hand than he ever was with his right
VardaValar1: Incentive
Elwing V: Ulmos horn could have been one of those huge conch (?) shells (like some show for Poseidon)
Elwing V: didn't want to lose ANOTHER hand!!
Eonwe Valar: That must've been a scary sight to see a one-handed Noldo who you knew had just got done easily slicing through a group of orcs and was now coming after you :}
VardaValar1: aye :-)
VardaValar1: Any Noldo with a sword is a scary sight : )
Eonwe Valar: aye :}
VardaValar1: Fin, Eonwe, Elwing and I got together this weekend
VardaValar1: We'll have to get you in on it some year : )
VardaValar1: still looking up instruments...
VardaValar1: and doing a side chat about Legolas's ancestry ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Hope that latter one helps with your Legolas Paper :}
VardaValar1: No help so far, but thanks for the good wishes : )
VardaValar1: I had to put the paper on a side burner, so many projects
VardaValar1: Might try puttiing up pieces of it, like the naming
VardaValar1: It's not just green leaf
VardaValar1: the green is the fresh green of new growth
VardaValar1: and it is a group of leaves
VardaValar1: so he would be one leaf of that sort
VardaValar1: goes nicely with Estel, hope
Elwing V: new is the best kind of green...has a silvery sheen I think
VardaValar1: :-)
VardaValar1: Unrelated neat quote:
VardaValar1: talking about Manwe
VardaValar1: "Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas,
VardaValar1: and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Eonwe Valar: interesting
VardaValar1: It was the impenetrable shadows around Morgoth they could not see through
VardaValar1: where he sat in his dark thought
Farmer Maggot V: Namarie
VardaValar1: Namarie
FINARFIN010: namarie
Farmer Maggot V has left the room.
GwaihirValar: ooh... my ancestors could see through mountains... cool :-)
VardaValar1: nice, huh? : )
VardaValar1: Ulmo's music:
VardaValar1: "In the deep places he gives thought to music great and terrible;
VardaValar1: and the echo of that music runs through all the veins of the world in sorrow and in joy
VardaValar1: ;
VardaValar1: for if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun,
VardaValar1: its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth
VardaValar1: The Teleri learned much of the Ulmo, and for this reason their music has both sadness and enchantment."
FINARFIN010: but one cannot speak of the fullness of Ulmo's music with out talking about the infulance of Malko on Ulmo's making of music.
VardaValar1: and of course, Salmar made the horns of Ulmo
VardaValar1: aye, ok then : )
VardaValar1: "And thus it was by the power of Ulmo that even under the darkness of Melkor life coursed still through
VardaValar1: many secret lodes, and the Earth did not die;
VardaValar1: and to all who were lost in that darkness or wandered far from the light of the Valar
VardaValar1: the ear of Ulmo was ever open;
VardaValar1: nor has he ever forsaken Middle-earth,.."
VardaValar1: End quote
FINARFIN010: and Ullmo answered: "turly, Water is become now fairer than my heart imagined, neither had my secret thought conceived the snowflake, nor in all my music was contained the falling of the rain. "
VardaValar1: aye : )
FINARFIN010: i would love to have heard the music of "falling rain"
Elwing V: Beautiful words...I really need to reread my Sil...
VardaValar1: Listen
VardaValar1: We can hear it yet, if we but listen.
Eonwe Valar: Makes one wonder how Ulmo intended to use water to help plantlife, or if Yavanna had to consider that on her own
FINARFIN010: and how does one concive the song of "snowflake"
Elwing V: I have a dinner bell that's some nice music to hear :-)
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: bon apetit Elwing :}
Elwing V: Been a fun and interesting chat (even arriving late and missing some )
Elwing V: Namarie all!
FINARFIN010: i too missed the chat but will read it on line later.
FINARFIN010: namaire
VardaValar1: "... and in the twilight of the world Orome would sound the Valaroma his great horn upon the plains of Arda;
Elwing V has left the room.
VardaValar1: whereat the mountains echoed, and the shadows of evil fled away, and Melkor himself quailed in Utumno, foreboding the wrath to come."
FINARFIN010: did he not wind his mighty horn for Tuor as well.:
FINARFIN010: to hold back the wrath of osse.
VardaValar1: The Music of the Ainur is as fate to all except to Man.
FINARFIN010: and save the last mariner to guide him to the hidden kingdom
FINARFIN010: darn... dinner is calling...
FINARFIN010: i have to excuse myself for a time.
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
VardaValar1: "Yet of old the Valar declared to the Elves in Valinor that Men shall join in the Second Music of the Ainur;
VardaValar1: whereas Iluvatar has not revealed what he purposes for the Elves after the World's end, and Melkor has not discovered it."
VardaValar1: Dinner is good : )
VardaValar1: That last was the last line of The Beginning of Days
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
Orodreth V: Dinner swen.
Orodreth V: *sewn.
Orodreth V: Hungery.
Orodreth V: v. Hungery.
VardaValar1: Please go eat : )
Eonwe Valar: "Revenge?! You?! Ha! I am Smaug!"
Eonwe Valar: "I kill what I wish! I am strong... Strong... STRONG!"
Eonwe Valar: have that piece as a sound clip on my computer,.. listening to it :}
VardaValar1: o cool!
VardaValar1: Where's that little stick of wood to clobber that strong dragon with?
VardaValar1: There, in his quiver
Eonwe Valar: now we need to find someone to fire the arrow :}
VardaValar1: hmm, Fingon is a bow-user too. Just got to that part where you were a while ago
VardaValar1: Guess we could get a Man to use the arrow. They're handy in that area
Eonwe Valar: Yeah.. Hard for Eagles to grasp to bow and pull the string,..
VardaValar1: Unfortunately, the bit about instruments might be in a book that is not the Sil 

VardaValar1: Maybe I should turn you loose
VardaValar1: Sauron says hi, just came home
Eonwe Valar: heya to Sauron :}
VardaValar1: Eagles like snake meat, some anyway : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Hmm apparently I have a sound file of the FotR trailer, or a teaser trailer for LotR, whichever it happens to be.
VardaValar1: I know there is a place where a batch of Valar are using instruments. Maybe their voices sounded like those instruments, but I think they used them
VardaValar1: neato : )
VardaValar1: Oh, Elwing said she was not getting spam from my sbcglobal account
VardaValar1: so I don't see why you would get it but she does not
Eonwe Valar: that's good
VardaValar1: Weird ways of viruses
Eonwe Valar: I haven't got any recently
VardaValar1: That's good news
Eonwe Valar: aye
VardaValar1: Going back through mass of email
VardaValar1: more poems : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Embla, a Tolkien only member, sent an email
VardaValar1: She is now in New Zealand!!!
Eonwe Valar: cool!
VardaValar1: She's booked the Extended DVD of the LotR for when she comes home at last
VardaValar1: She's keeping in touch by internet cafes
Orodreth V: Oh, forgot to mention.
VardaValar1: She says they are stressful though
VardaValar1: Aye, Orodreth?
Orodreth V: Got TTT extended fromt he library.
Orodreth V: Watched it yesterday.
VardaValar1: Congrats : )
VardaValar1: How did you like the new scenes?
VardaValar1: I like how seamlessly the music and video parts of the extra scenes in all the extendeds work in
VardaValar1: The stress of the internet cafes seems to be the time limits
VardaValar1: My turn to afk, but intend to scroll. Hungry as Orodreth ;-)
Eonwe Valar: :} bon apatit :}
VardaValar1: thanks : )
Orodreth V: The Long and Short of it was good.
VardaValar1: Think there is some fast soup to grab
Eonwe Valar: hmm
Eonwe Valar: Apparently on the board we have an old (?) Celebrimbor going under a different name. No problems except his AIM name says he's Celebrimbor V so I have to wonder
GwaihirValar: hmm?
Eonwe Valar: Check out the forum
VardaValar1: back
Eonwe Valar: By all info on our current Celebrimbor, it's not him. I wonder which he was and if he was wanting to rejoin,..
VardaValar1: Guys making nice dinner so I have to keep out of the soup
Eonwe Valar: What nice guys they are :}
VardaValar1: So true!
VardaValar1: Give an email for him?
Orodreth V: I can't make anything more complicated then scrambled eggs. :-P
VardaValar1: Try a recipe book, the way a new wife has to :-)
Eonwe Valar: celebrimborv(AT)
VardaValar1: sounds familiar
VardaValar1: checking it out
Eonwe Valar: hmm the Activity page is only 3 years old? got used to it pretty quick apparently :}
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: thought it at least went back 4 years :}
VardaValar1: very handy
Eonwe Valar: aye, very handy
Eonwe Valar: didn't find this e-mail in any of the Activity pages though, so he's from before 2002
VardaValar1: found two other of our guys on, maybe why it sounded familiar
VardaValar1: Checked Recruits
Eonwe Valar: if he was a member
Eonwe Valar: checking
VardaValar1: Ancalagon used to be a Celebrimbor before name change : )
GwaihirValar: it's not the celebrimbor that used to be my friend, I don't think... his old e-mail was like goldsnakeowl or somethin'l ike that
VardaValar1: 1999 had a Celebrimbor
VardaValar1: I liked goldsnakeowl, nice emails
GwaihirValar: I haven't talked to him in prolly 2 years, but I can see him write nice e-mails definitely.
VardaValar1: ack no
VardaValar1: Celebrimbor was Ancalagon, not other way around
VardaValar1: That is goldsnakeowl
VardaValar1: He joined 2001, changed name in 2002
VardaValar1: dropped for inactivity 2003
VardaValar1: You're right. Last new full member was in July
VardaValar1: New ones lately have been Tolkien-onlies
VardaValar1: That isn't good
VardaValar1: I was considering coming in at a regular time at least once a week, being more available that way on Bnet
GwaihirValar: ya
VardaValar1: More often if I can swing it, same time
VardaValar1: Which ya? : )
GwaihirValar: to the earlier about Celebrimbor being Anca first
VardaValar1: Aye
GwaihirValar: his acct got raided by someone stealing his pw, so he changed acct and pw
VardaValar1: Right
VardaValar1: Did that one stay safe?
VardaValar1: Cirdan used to write a lot for the Encyc until he changed his name to Daeron and practically disappeared
FINARFIN010: IIIII'mmmmmmm baaaaaaaaaaack :-)
VardaValar1: Anyone know what happened to him?
Orodreth V: *drumroll*
VardaValar1: Welcome back : )
FINARFIN010: thanks
FINARFIN010: 8-)
VardaValar1: Nice shades
FINARFIN010: took them from a dragon!
Eonwe Valar: this is the same guy with sister Earwen, right?
VardaValar1: We do seem to be running out of dragons
VardaValar1: Earwen - dropped for inactivity
FINARFIN010: well they did like to snack on hobbits and elves a bit.
VardaValar1: Dior's sister
VardaValar1: Munchies unacceptable!
FINARFIN010: not to mention Dearves
FINARFIN010: dwarves
VardaValar1: Earwen was Amarie before that, dropped for inactivity then too, heh
Eonwe Valar: ah yes, Dior, not Daeron
FINARFIN010: Hey... I am going to game for a bit and then watch "Farscape"
FINARFIN010: so i am off ...
VardaValar1: sounds good
FINARFIN010: Namaire
VardaValar1: Game at what?
FINARFIN010: diable 2
VardaValar1: ladder?
FINARFIN010: is there anything else?
FINARFIN010: yup
VardaValar1: hehe
FINARFIN010: or not
VardaValar1: I'm headed that way too
FINARFIN010: what lvl..
VardaValar1: might get a whisper in
VardaValar1: 30 something
FINARFIN010: cool
FINARFIN010: is that you age?
FINARFIN010: hehe
VardaValar1: You can use my game for transfers
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: hmm
VardaValar1: That would be 50 ;-)
FINARFIN010: thanks
FINARFIN010: i know.
VardaValar1: I need to reach my age in level
FINARFIN010: i beat you by one year
VardaValar1: mental age a bit low
FINARFIN010: hehe
FINARFIN010: beat
VardaValar1: Wait til November!
FINARFIN010: hey!!!! next monthy
VardaValar1: Fangorn is 51 too, can I bring him in as a ringer?
FINARFIN010: month
VardaValar1: aye
FINARFIN010: i shall be 52 in Jan.
VardaValar1: He and I are 6 months apart
VardaValar1: Ohh, I will catch you for a little while!
VardaValar1: Merry has his birthday in January too : )
FINARFIN010: yes you will and the world shall have to take care of it self then.
FINARFIN010: what day
VardaValar1: Jan 9 is Merry's
FINARFIN010: mine is the 15th
VardaValar1: Capricorn?
FINARFIN010: hehe you bet.
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: Let's go play D2X while we can!
FINARFIN010: :-)8-)
VardaValar1: You can transfer
VardaValar1: in my game if you like
VardaValar1: See you there
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you in Bnet?
Eonwe Valar: not at the moment. Do I need to be?
FINARFIN010: i am in Valar channel
VardaValar1: Nope
VardaValar1: We are there though
Eonwe Valar: Ah ok
Eonwe Valar: lol Celebrimbor is the other Celebrimbor :}
GwaihirValar: Celebrimbor's evil twin?
VardaValar1: The guys just called supper
VardaValar1: smells very good
VardaValar1: Going afk for now
Eonwe Valar: enjoy :}
Eonwe Valar: That's taken care of :} no more QelDroma :} Celebrimbor is the Celebrimbor now :}
VardaValar1: back
VardaValar1: So he is the current Celebrimbor?
Eonwe Valar: yep
Eonwe Valar: he thought either he didn't register or he forgot his password
Eonwe Valar: so he made the QelDroma account
Eonwe Valar: got him set up again with his Celebrimbor account (via e-mail for maximum assurance)
Eonwe Valar: Found out he was our current Celebrimbor when I said "What is your standard e-mail address for the Guild" and he gave the e-mails for bot haccounts :}
FINARFIN010 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Well, I'm going to go ahead and head out.
Eonwe Valar: Take care, good night, sleep well, and have fun everyone :}
GwaihirValar: gnight
Orodreth V: night
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
Orodreth V has left the room.
Grimbold V has left the room.