Valar Guild

May 16, 2004 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST, 22:00 GMT

News page

Meeting Opens , Eonwe presiding
Membership News
    Fladrif - new member
Web
Gaming
Tolkien
    What is said about dwarf women in Tolkien? topic from Arathorn

Before-meeting:
(4:56:46 PM) ThorondorV has entered the room.
ThorondorV (4:56:54 PM): Heyhey
(5:00:54 PM) ArathornValar has entered the room.
ArathornValar (5:00:58 PM): Heya
(5:01:17 PM) Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar (5:01:38 PM): heya
ArathornValar (5:01:54 PM): Aiya
Eonwe Valar (5:01:54 PM): it's 4, isn't it?
Eonwe Valar (5:02:08 PM): oR WHATEVER THE HOUR IS FOR YOU
GUYS?
Eonwe Valar (5:02:12 PM): ack caps
ArathornValar (5:02:19 PM): 5 here yeah... Varda won't be here (in
case you didn't read the news)
ThorondorV (5:02:39 PM): Heya Eonwe
(5:02:41 PM) GwaihirValar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar (5:02:43 PM): haven't had a chance to, doing that now
GwaihirValar (5:02:43 PM): hullo
ThorondorV (5:02:48 PM): Hey Gwai
ThorondorV (5:03:05 PM): 0:03 am here
(5:03:25 PM) MJKeenan123 has entered the room.
ArathornValar (5:03:26 PM): Aiya... inviting people...
(5:03:37 PM) Orodreth V has entered the room.
Orodreth V (5:03:41 PM): Aiya
Orodreth V (5:03:52 PM): working on a little short story of mine
ThorondorV (5:04:23 PM): Heya Orodeth and Oropher
ArathornValar (5:05:06 PM): Well ,invited everyone I could... we'll
just wait for Eonwe to check his notes
Orodreth V (5:05:42 PM): I'm almost done.
(5:05:47 PM) ArPharazonV has entered the room.
Orodreth V (5:05:49 PM): Arathorn, you get a chance to read it so far.
Orodreth V (5:05:50 PM): ?
ArathornValar (5:05:55 PM): Varda won't be here today, btw. Out
seeing Troy <heh>
ArathornValar (5:06:11 PM): No not yet, Orodreth
ThorondorV (5:06:13 PM): Must be at least visually impressive movie
ArPharazonV (5:06:20 PM): Aiya, sorry I'm late, my pc crashed over half an
hour ago, and I've been trying to get my keyboard running since then
ArPharazonV (5:06:57 PM): meeting started yet?
ThorondorV (5:06:58 PM): Hey Ar.. good that I'm not the only yellow here

Eonwe Valar (5:06:59 PM): ok back
Eonwe Valar (5:07:27 PM): 8 people.  Shall we begin? :}
ThorondorV (5:07:34 PM): Sounds like a plan..
ArathornValar (5:07:53 PM): 6 in waiting room, but no reply <g>
ArPharazonV (5:07:54 PM): great, just in time, did I miss some pre-meeting
stuff?
GwaihirValar (5:08:00 PM): hehe not really
ArathornValar (5:08:01 PM): Nope

Eonwe Valar (5:08:02 PM): Elen Sila lumenn Omentielvo
Eonwe Valar (5:08:30 PM): Membership:
Eonwe Valar (5:09:02 PM): Varda is off with her family (many of them Guild
members :}) watching Troy
ArPharazonV (5:09:20 PM): comment inbetween: Fladrif will be online soon
Eonwe Valar (5:09:36 PM): Good :}
(5:09:39 PM) DemonicHorde69 has entered the room.
DemonicHorde69 (5:09:44 PM): aiya
ArathornValar (5:10:12 PM): Aiya, Mablung.
ThorondorV (5:10:24 PM): Hey Mablung
DemonicHorde69 (5:10:35 PM): brb in one minute
Eonwe Valar (5:10:40 PM): Farmner Maggot won't be around much, as he's
been grounded
DemonicHorde69 (5:10:48 PM): and just for the record although troy wasnt
a good adaption of the book it was a great action film
ArPharazonV (5:11:32 PM): troy wasn't a good adaptation? do we even
have a good troy movie in this world?
Eonwe Valar (5:11:36 PM): Any other Member news?
Eonwe Valar (5:11:44 PM): Meeting guys :}
ArPharazonV (5:11:50 PM): o, btw, aiya mablung...
Eonwe Valar (5:11:56 PM): please discuss in private whispers
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Eonwe Valar (5:12:35 PM): Web News:
Eonwe Valar (5:12:58 PM): Updates made to Varda's Folklore and
Mythology
page on the Trojan War
Eonwe Valar (5:13:50 PM): She invites everyone to take a look if you're
interested
Eonwe Valar (5:15:33 PM): Orodreth would like to mention something.  I'll
let him do it here
Eonwe Valar (5:16:43 PM): You there Orodreth?
(5:16:45 PM) FladrifV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (5:16:49 PM): welcome Fladrif!
ArPharazonV (5:16:51 PM): Aiya
FladrifV (5:16:52 PM): Aiya
ArathornValar (5:16:56 PM): Updated D2x Tolkien Mod pages ...
found/added a lot of Uniques and Set pieces .. found a lot I
already had too <chuckle> Got my Dark Elf up to level 70...
still going to need help to beat the Ancients though :/
Eonwe Valar (5:17:22 PM): Thanks Arathorn, but it was still Orodreth's floor
ArathornValar (5:17:24 PM): (..while waiting for Orod to answer)
GwaihirValar (5:17:36 PM): Orodreth's not idleanymore, at least
GwaihirValar (5:17:36 PM): lol
Orodreth V (5:18:02 PM): Oh.
Orodreth V (5:18:04 PM): sorry.
Orodreth V (5:18:29 PM): I'm working on a little short story set during
just after the Watchful Peace ends.
Orodreth V (5:19:22 PM): Complete with plenty of Quenya, and more
then a  few words who's creation probally made Tolkien roll over
in his grave. ;-0
Orodreth V (5:19:24 PM):
Orodreth V (5:20:06 PM): It's nearly done, so anyone who'd be willing
to proofread it and critque it woud be more then welcome to.
Orodreth V (5:20:13 PM): /me goes back to work
Eonwe Valar (5:20:22 PM): Thanks Orodreth :}
Eonwe Valar (5:20:45 PM): Any other Web News?
ThorondorV (5:20:52 PM): About the Folklore and Mythology page..
ThorondorV (5:21:00 PM): There's nothing about the Finnish Kalevala yet I
think..
Eonwe Valar (5:21:01 PM): yes?
ThorondorV (5:21:38 PM): I could add something about the subject later. I
need to read it pretty much before doing anything
Eonwe Valar (5:21:43 PM): I'm sure if you could provide some information
on it, Varda would be much appreciative :}
ThorondorV (5:22:14 PM): Yeah, she once told me she's interested
Eonwe Valar (5:22:59 PM): Anything else?
ArPharazonV (5:23:08 PM): ooooh, nice page, that mythology site
ArPharazonV (5:23:23 PM): has she made use of Mythica yet?
Eonwe Valar (5:23:32 PM): You'd have to ask her :}
ArPharazonV (5:23:45 PM): yes, according to the links, she has... good
ArPharazonV (5:23:58 PM): The Encyclopedia Mythica - Excellent. Very
wide spread of subjects, mostly with small discussions but others in
depth. Image links. By M.F. Lindemans
Eonwe Valar (5:24:02 PM): This page isn't a Valar Guild page, but one she
does personally
ArPharazonV (5:24:07 PM): see, I knew it was a good site for that!
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Eonwe Valar (5:24:49 PM): OK, on to Gaming :}
ArPharazonV (5:25:10 PM): http://www.memod.co.uk/
ArPharazonV (5:25:42 PM): middleearth mod for morrowind, huge, it's own
masterfile.. so comparable to the official expansions
Eonwe Valar (5:25:50 PM): Several members have fought the Diablo clone,
and we have a list of several if not all of them, made by Galdor
ArPharazonV (5:26:00 PM): like making a war3 mod as big as TFT....
Eonwe Valar (5:26:59 PM): If you have news, please whisper to the chair to
be recognized.  It keeps the meeting organized, and is especially helpful
when we have alot of members at the meetings.
ArPharazonV (5:27:04 PM): ok
ArPharazonV (5:27:15 PM): seemed like no one said something, so...
Eonwe Valar (5:27:25 PM): I was typing :}
ArPharazonV (5:27:31 PM): sorry
ArPharazonV (5:27:32 PM):
GwaihirValar (5:27:35 PM): I've fought DClone several times
GwaihirValar (5:27:39 PM): well, not several
GwaihirValar (5:27:41 PM): but 3 at least
GwaihirValar (5:27:54 PM): he's a wimp to my pally hehe
Eonwe Valar (5:28:04 PM): Arathorn, Erestor, Galdor, Gwaihir, and
Thorondor are among those who have fought him
Eonwe Valar (5:28:44 PM): Erestor also tells us his Paladin is lvl 81 :}
Eonwe Valar (5:29:33 PM): Arathorn has also made a page displaying
screenshots of his, Gwaihir's, and Erestor's battle with "Uber-D"
Eonwe Valar (5:30:42 PM): Sam has done some work on the ladder
accounts, making new chars to further hold items
Eonwe Valar (5:31:01 PM): Any other Gaming News?
ArPharazonV (5:31:13 PM): see above....
ArathornValar (5:31:18 PM): Got my Nec up to 86
ArathornValar (5:31:37 PM): Been adding a lot of set and Uniques to
the ladder bank too
ThorondorV (5:32:11 PM): Found a piece about a Kalevala character from
that exellent site Pharazon mentioned
Eonwe Valar (5:33:03 PM): Anythign else?
ThorondorV (5:33:21 PM): Mind if I copy/paste it here, pretty short info only
Eonwe Valar (5:33:37 PM): go ahead, if it's short :}
ThorondorV (5:34:05 PM): hmm 2 pieces..:
ThorondorV (5:34:16 PM): Ilmarinen:
ThorondorV (5:34:35 PM): A Finnish sky-god, lord of wind and good
weather (ilma), "giving calm and bad weather, and furthering travelers
(sailors)", according to Agricola.
ThorondorV (5:35:01 PM): It is also the name of one of the heroes of the
Kalevala, the eternal smith. He forged the sky, Sun and Moon.
ThorondorV (5:35:10 PM): He also created the sampo on which the heavens
rest, and even a golden wife for himself. Ilmarinen gave mankind fire and
he taught them how to work with ores and make iron objects.
ThorondorV (5:35:20 PM): He is the patron of travelers. He was a good
friend of Väinämöinen and they often went on adventures together.
ThorondorV (5:35:42 PM): Sorry took more than 2 messages
Eonwe Valar (5:35:54 PM): :}
Eonwe Valar (5:35:57 PM): Thanks for that info :}
ArPharazonV (5:36:09 PM): tsk tsk tsk... making yourself a wife
ThorondorV (5:36:26 PM): But as you know, Tolkien adopted some bits
from Kalevala..
ArPharazonV (5:36:29 PM): I guess that happens when you're desperate and
picky
ThorondorV (5:36:36 PM): Ilmarien, Ilmarinen..
Eonwe Valar (5:36:54 PM): Ok, let's take a step back to Membership news
for a second and Welcome our Newest member, Fladrif :}
FladrifV (5:37:43 PM): Aiya to every one
FladrifV (5:38:01 PM): curently fixing also a notebook from arpharazon
ArPharazonV (5:38:42 PM): my parents bought one from a fleamarket this
afternoon... not in fully functional state
Eonwe Valar (5:38:53 PM): ah :}
Eonwe Valar (5:40:18 PM): Ok, on to Tolkien :} Any Topics?
ArPharazonV (5:40:26 PM): wait:
FladrifV (5:40:28 PM): hardisk of 500 mb with 300 mb bad clusters..
ArPharazonV (5:40:36 PM): did we discuss the new war3 patch yet?
Eonwe Valar (5:40:46 PM): Pardon, thanks
ArPharazonV (5:41:11 PM): patch 1.15, finally out on all servers
Eonwe Valar (5:41:12 PM): WC3/TFT has a new patch, patch 1.15, that
some of us got a chance to beta-test for a week or two
ArPharazonV (5:41:19 PM): hehe
ArPharazonV (5:41:45 PM): I think the beta server is unavailable from now
on, though I haven't tried...
Eonwe Valar (5:41:59 PM): Clan ladders are in now, so if you play WC3 and
want to help our rating, get in there and win some games! :}
Eonwe Valar (5:42:12 PM): It's invalid now,.. I inadvertantly tried :}
ArPharazonV (5:42:26 PM): it still shows up in the list?
FladrifV (5:42:43 PM): on my war3 no beta server anymore
Eonwe Valar (5:43:00 PM): hmm, I think so, haven't looked since switching
to Azeroth again,.. just that I was still pointed to westfall before I
switched to Azeroth
ArPharazonV (5:43:31 PM): hm... anyone currently on bnet to able to check?
ArPharazonV (5:43:39 PM): *to be
ArPharazonV (5:43:52 PM): *actually... the to was redundant
ArPharazonV (5:43:55 PM): sorry
Eonwe Valar (5:44:56 PM): Seems not
Eonwe Valar (5:45:09 PM): No Tolkien Topics?
ArPharazonV (5:46:02 PM): hm... I had a topic in mind this afternoon,
something I discussed with somebody else...
ArPharazonV (5:46:09 PM): oh right
ArPharazonV (5:46:36 PM): not really a good discussion topic though, just a
discussion about whether all halflings were hobbits
ThorondorV (5:46:43 PM): Just a general question.. what's in book of lost
tales generally? Haven't read that yet
Eonwe Valar (5:46:52 PM): sure they are :}  Halfings are what they're called
by men :}
ArPharazonV (5:47:15 PM): they said all hobbits were halflings, but not
necessarily the other way around
ArPharazonV (5:47:32 PM): that, for instance, Smeagol's family was halfling,
but not hobbit
GwaihirValar (5:47:50 PM): they were the descendants of hobbits
Eonwe Valar (5:47:55 PM): Generally? The first couple of chapters of the Sil
inb earliest form, along with some important tales that come later in the Sil
(in earliest form)
Eonwe Valar (5:48:09 PM): Smeagol's family was a hobbit family :}
Eonwe Valar (5:48:18 PM): Tolkie nsays so, and I won't argue with him :}
ArPharazonV (5:48:25 PM): house of the Stoors, right?
Eonwe Valar (5:48:39 PM): I believe so
ArPharazonV (5:48:48 PM): good, then I was right
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Eonwe Valar (5:48:56 PM): Arathorn has a Tolkien topic for us :}
ArathornValar (5:49:12 PM): Dwarf women. They were known to
look a lot like dwarf men... what else do we know of them?

ArathornValar (5:49:15 PM): ...Gimli mentioned that many people
thought Dwarves sprung from the ground because they
couldn't make out the women from the men <chuckle>
ThorondorV (5:49:24 PM): Allright.. thanks.. I would have prolly read it if it
was in Finnish.. sometimes the old English is a bit difficult
GwaihirValar (5:50:06 PM): so they're bearded, it's certain
ArathornValar (5:50:13 PM): er.. other than that, I haven't read
much
GwaihirValar (5:50:23 PM): I've never seen anythig about them
ArathornValar (5:50:37 PM): Were they warriors too? Or more
homebodies...
ArPharazonV (5:51:00 PM): they are much rarer then the males
ArathornValar (5:51:03 PM): Is anything mentioned in otehr Tolkien
works?
Eonwe Valar (5:51:05 PM): Pardon, just to make sure I'm clear to
THorondor: The tales are in "modern English" not "old English" ,.. earliest
form simply means they are as they were the first one or two or three
times Tolkien wrote them :}
ArPharazonV (5:51:07 PM): 2:1 or something?
ArPharazonV (5:51:12 PM): 3:1?
ThorondorV (5:51:25 PM): ah ok
ThorondorV (5:52:06 PM): There is many old words in lotr as well though?
Eonwe Valar (5:52:33 PM): Book 12 has things about Dwarves and their
socializing with men
ArPharazonV (5:52:46 PM): well, if you mean stuff like thou, thy, and stuff
like that....
ThorondorV (5:53:23 PM): yeah something like that
Eonwe Valar (5:53:37 PM): Dwarves Men:Women is roughyl 3:1, made
worse by the fact not all Dwarf women would marry
ArathornValar (5:54:01 PM): There a reason for that (not
marrying)?
ArPharazonV (5:54:19 PM): luckily, they get like thrice as old as humans, or
they would die out
Eonwe Valar (5:54:27 PM): Probably thought there were better things to do
than gaurantee the continuance of the Dwarvish race?
Eonwe Valar (5:54:50 PM): I'm not sure if TOlkien gives an actual reason
ArathornValar (5:55:03 PM): Like making their own jewelry?
<chuckle>
ArPharazonV (5:55:16 PM): ok, with risk of being banned from the meeting,
I just have to say this: perhaps they liked other women better?
ArathornValar (5:55:20 PM): Diamonds are a Dwarf girl's best
friend <heh>
Eonwe Valar (5:55:51 PM): Don't think that's it Pharazon
ArPharazonV (5:56:41 PM): why not? they looked like men anyway
Eonwe Valar (5:57:09 PM): let's not go down that road :}
GwaihirValar (5:57:15 PM): lol
FladrifV (5:57:29 PM): Walk it up into the mountains
ArPharazonV (5:57:50 PM): ok, trying to keep the intellectual level a bit
higher again.... for now
ArathornValar (5:57:59 PM): Hmm.. guess I'm wondering why he had
Gimli mention them at all... and then never elaborate. Odd.
Eonwe Valar (5:58:12 PM): a show of trust?
Eonwe Valar (5:58:21 PM): Dwarves are generally a secretive people
ArathornValar (5:58:38 PM): True.
FladrifV (5:58:39 PM): just a little small talk
ArPharazonV (5:58:53 PM): it slipped from his mouth
ArathornValar (5:59:09 PM): Are there any Dwarf women's names
mentioned anywhere?
Eonwe Valar (5:59:13 PM): yes
Eonwe Valar (5:59:18 PM): Dis, Thorin's sister
ThorondorV (5:59:19 PM): Was just about to ask the same
ArathornValar (5:59:21 PM): Have an example?
Eonwe Valar (5:59:24 PM): Mother of Fili and Kili
FladrifV (5:59:34 PM): /me going to sleep
ArathornValar (5:59:35 PM): ah.. checking encyclopedia..
FladrifV (5:59:40 PM): Namarie
Eonwe Valar (5:59:41 PM): have a good night Fladrif
ArPharazonV (5:59:45 PM): poor Fi and Ki... dying in battle
ThorondorV (5:59:49 PM): Sleep well
ArPharazonV (5:59:51 PM): Namarie, Fladrif
GwaihirValar (5:59:51 PM): gnight
(6:00:00 PM) FladrifV has left the room.
ArathornValar (6:00:35 PM): hmm... says in tha ARda encylc. that
"she is the only dwarf-woman named by Tolkien. "
Eonwe Valar (6:00:49 PM): She may be
ArathornValar (6:00:55 PM): Interesting.
GwaihirValar (6:01:05 PM): perhaps she was the only dwarf woman there
was
ArPharazonV (6:01:15 PM): then there were only 3 dwarves
GwaihirValar (6:01:18 PM): lol
ArPharazonV (6:01:26 PM): *3 male dwarves
GwaihirValar (6:01:32 PM): nah, Tolkien was just a little off on his math the
day he wrote that 3:1
ThorondorV (6:01:46 PM): In the name of equality the meetig should be kept
twice a year at least when it's 6 pm in here  Always so tired
GwaihirValar (6:01:47 PM): everyone has bad days...
Eonwe Valar (6:01:57 PM): if she's the only dwarf woman, it's a good thing
she decided to get married :}
ThorondorV (6:02:06 PM): Well, going to bed now too
ArPharazonV (6:02:10 PM): and how did she get born then?
GwaihirValar (6:02:11 PM): gnight Thorondor
Eonwe Valar (6:02:12 PM): sleep well Eagle :}
ArPharazonV (6:02:14 PM): Namarie
ArathornValar (6:02:16 PM): heh.. high school prom must have been
odd.
ThorondorV (6:02:21 PM): Good night all
GwaihirValar (6:02:21 PM): She was one of the 7 original dwarves...
(6:02:28 PM) ThorondorV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar (6:02:32 PM): well, that makes it rough since she's THorin's
sister :}
ArPharazonV (6:02:49 PM): his sister, his mother, his grandmother....
GwaihirValar (6:02:56 PM): or no... Aule made 8 Dwarves originally... the
seven Fathers of the Dwarves and then the 1 Mother
GwaihirValar (6:02:56 PM): lol
ArathornValar (6:03:00 PM): Well, afk for a bit... supper's on.
Eonwe Valar (6:03:12 PM): enjoy Arathorn
ArPharazonV (6:03:17 PM): Namarie for a bit, Arathorn
ArPharazonV (6:03:21 PM): enjoy your meal
GwaihirValar (6:03:31 PM): and the Mother was called 'Sister' by them all
GwaihirValar (6:03:32 PM): hehe
Eonwe Valar (6:03:40 PM): wouldn't have worked well at all that way
Gwaihir
Orodreth V (6:03:47 PM): This is sounding like that "Melkor = Bob
Barker" thing that Ossë came up with awhile ago.
GwaihirValar (6:03:54 PM): nah, of course not... but she'd be one lucky
Dwarf woman
GwaihirValar (6:03:55 PM): lol
Eonwe Valar (6:03:58 PM): hmm I missed that one
Orodreth V (6:04:06 PM): It was, quite, uh, interesting.
Orodreth V (6:04:28 PM): We decided that the first contestant was
Sauron.
Orodreth V (6:04:48 PM): Yea, anyways, back to writer's block.
ArPharazonV (6:04:54 PM): wait, I remember that
ArPharazonV (6:04:59 PM): was I there?
Orodreth V (6:05:13 PM): You might have been..
Eonwe Valar (6:05:16 PM): Well, I think
Eonwe Valar (6:05:27 PM): I'll declare the meeting adjourned :} 
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