Valar Guild

June 6, 2004 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST, 22:00 GMT

News page

Meeting Opens
Membership News
    Arwen and Thorin "say their few words" of intro

You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
VardaValar1 : Aiya Eonwe :-)
musics4me2 :I'm lagging really bad so this time it's not my fault if I'm slow ;-)
Eonwe Valar :Heya :}Got back in town from A-kon about an hour ago :}
VardaValar1 : Shaggyjoe and MeneldilValar can't be invited by me
VardaValar1 : I'm lagging too
Celebrimbor V : Aiya Eonwe
TurgonjustTurgon :a-kon?
Celebrimbor V : I'm lagging too
Eonwe Valar :an Anime convention
TurgonjustTurgon :I hope all this lag is not the cause of my dowloading
Eonwe Valar :one of the biggest I'm told :}
TurgonjustTurgon :if so, that is most unfortunate, as I have no intentions to stop downloading after 2.5 hours of it :-)
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TurgonjustTurgon :nearly 1.4 GB of the 2 GB done.... dang its slow
TurgonjustTurgon :then again, once its done, itll prolly be worth it
Eonwe Valar :what are you downloading?
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TurgonjustTurgon :14 days free trial of Star Wars Galaxies, boy am I excited
VardaValar1 : Back
VardaValar1 : Crashed
TurgonjustTurgon :welcome back
VardaValar1 : Will try to start the meeting
VardaValar1 : Who will save?
Celebrimbor V : lol
Celebrimbor V : ooooooooooooook
Celebrimbor V : what r u downloading?
Celebrimbor V : lol
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TurgonjustTurgon :I "might" have some good news concerning WoW

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
Celebrimbor V has entered the room.

VardaValar1: Member News:
Celebrimbor V : ok back
FladrifV has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon :started
Celebrimbor V : Aiya Fladrif
VardaValar1 : We have two new members this week:
VardaValar1 : Arwen and Thorin
VardaValar1 : Aiya Fladrif
FladrifV :Aiya
VardaValar1 : We are in Member news now
FladrifV :ok
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VardaValar1 : Arwen, would you like to say a few words of introduction?
Arwen V1 : Okay =)
Arwen V1 : I just recently read Lord of the Rings, though I had read the Hobbit awhile ago. I live in Houston and am a real friend of Eowyn's
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TurgonjustTurgon :single? :-D
Arwen V1 : I like playing D2x, BW and Everquest(though I dont play currently)
Celebrimbor V : lol Turgon
Arwen V1 : And I'm quite excited about joining the guild =) Thank you
VardaValar1 : She's single, aye ;-)
Celebrimbor V : I have someone who wants to join the guild.....he's actually right next to me
VardaValar1 : Hello to Celebrimbor's friend
VardaValar1 : Thorondor, are you live?
Celebrimbor V : he says aiya
Celebrimbor V : :-)
Eonwe Valar :So another Texan? :}
VardaValar1 : Arwen is Texan, aye, now on another comp
VardaValar1 : Elwing and Arwen switched comps
Celebrimbor V : Varda, when do u think he could get tested?
Thorin 7623 : i am talking to a friend of mine who says that as soon as his comp. is fixed he would like to try for membership
TurgonjustTurgon :Aiya!
VardaValar1 : If Thorondor is able, I would ask him
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VardaValar1 : let us finish the business meeting first, then I or Eonwe can handle the test
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VardaValar1 : Thorin, you are new. Would you like to say a few words of introduction?
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TurgonjustTurgon :oh my, we're about to boom in membership once again :-)
Thorin 7623 : yes
ThorondorV :Back finally
VardaValar1 : Go ahead, Thorin : )
Thorin 7623 : i would like to say that im very excited about my membership and also would like to thank all the members who have shown unending patience with my constant questions
Elwing V has entered the room.
Elwing V : What a nice room - who's your decorator? :-)
Thorin 7623 : haha
Thorin 7623 : insanity r us
FladrifV :good reable collor thorondorV
FladrifV :+d
VardaValar1 : Thorin's floor until he's done : )
ThorondorV :Someone has said that earlier.. no way to change it, sorry :/
Thorin 7623 : i am finished sorry
VardaValar1 : Thanks, Thorin
VardaValar1 : Turgon, you had some Membership news?
VardaValar1 : Turgon?
VardaValar1 : Any other Member news?

VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1 : Links page:
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VardaValar1 : New fanfic link to Stories of Arda
VardaValar1 : Aiya
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TurgonjustTurgon :oops, sorry, was making a sandwich :-)
Celebrimbor V has left the room.
TurgonjustTurgon :just wanted to say the Pharazon said hes on a vacation and will be back next week, sends his regards
Elwing V : Varda's messages are in a black hole...
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Eonwe Valar :uh oh
Celebrimbor V : sorry
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Celebrimbor V : I lagged so bad
Celebrimbor V : uh oh?
ThorondorV :Seems really laggy
Eonwe Valar :Varda dropped :}
Celebrimbor V : extremely
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Celebrimbor V : wb Varda
VardaValar1 : Aiya, sorry about the crash
VardaValar1 : Thanks
ThorondorV :Varda shouldn't be the one in the Void
Eonwe Valar :impecable timing :}
VardaValar1 : Thanks to Thorin for the invite :-)
ThorondorV :wb
VardaValar1 : At least I can get back out of it :-)
Celebrimbor V : yeah
Thorin 7623 : glad to be of help
VardaValar1 : Poetry Page:
VardaValar1 : New navigation
VardaValar1 : Each poem and author has a separate page
VardaValar1 : New poem by Turgon:
Thorin 7623 : it was very good imho
VardaValar1 : "Avari Song of Heartening Before Battle"
VardaValar1 : Turgon, you had some web news?
TurgonjustTurgon :aye
TurgonjustTurgon :Today, I have started on editing the MEO RPG into a full story, novel-form
Celebrimbor V : awesome
TurgonjustTurgon :I'm doing as little actual editing as possible, but sometimes have to to smooth things over a bit
VardaValar1 : Any other web news?
Celebrimbor V : I have a poem to add
VardaValar1 : And on the MeO rpg, we have a link to it from our story page to an HTML type. Is it much different?
VardaValar1 : Cel, do you mean you are about to email a poem?
TurgonjustTurgon :The Valar Guild introduces:
TurgonjustTurgon :damn
VardaValar1 : Language please
TurgonjustTurgon :that wasn't supposed to happen
TurgonjustTurgon :oops sorry
Celebrimbor V : yes
TurgonjustTurgon :flies right by the zipper at times :-\
VardaValar1 : Say it but you don't have to type it : )
VardaValar1 : Ok, Cel, I will watch for it
Celebrimbor V : thank ya
Celebrimbor V : email it to you directly?
VardaValar1 : Any other Web news?
VardaValar1 : Yes
Celebrimbor V : ok will do
VardaValar1 : All Encyc stuff is emailed to me
Celebrimbor V : aye
VardaValar1 : makes it simple
Celebrimbor V : alright
VardaValar1 : Any other Web news?

VardaValar1: Gaming News:
VardaValar1 : D2X:
VardaValar1 : Our banks seem to be in decent shape, both regular and ladder
VardaValar1 : Any other Gaming news?
Celebrimbor V : does anyone use the GameSpy server?
ThorondorV :Ok good people, I have already been staying up for too long already.. time for me to depart
VardaValar1 : If not, moving to Tolkien
ThorondorV :Good night all
VardaValar1 : Namarie, Thorondor!
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VardaValar1 : Thorin has more gaming discussion
Celebrimbor V : sigh
VardaValar1 : Yes, we can use help with banks
VardaValar1 : Please feel free to add time on them, play them up, use or deposit items on them

VardaValar1: Back to Tolkien
VardaValar1 : Elwing has a topic, please go ahead
Elwing V : The matter of elven "death by fading" - is that something of a conscious action or not under their control
Elwing V : I have been influenced by some of the fanfic I've been reading (a lot ) lately
Eonwe Valar :I got the impression it was somethign not in their control. I am torn, however, if it's something that affects all Elves, just the Noldor, or if the Noldor sped it up for themselves or for all Elves by forging the Rings of Power,..
Elwing V : Generally have the impression they do it purposely, but as they are so into nature and it's ways, it seems like they would try not to.
Celebrimbor V : makes you wonder what happens when they reach a certain in the sailing to Valinor, like a transformation
VardaValar1 : All elves
Elwing V : Again that impression is from fanfic - didn't really get enought from Tolkien direct to decide (I haven't read all the books of his works yet tho)
VardaValar1 : They feel so grieved that they can't stay in the world anymore
VardaValar1 : Like Celebrian
Celebrimbor V : aye
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VardaValar1 : Aiya
Celebrimbor V : Aiya
HearNoEvil80 :Greetings!
:Grimbold here
Elwing V
: Greetings!
Celebrimbor V : Aiya Grimbold
Thorin 7623 : aiya grimbold
FladrifV :So the answer is yes and no, they choose they don't want to be in this world anymore and fade as a result of that willing.
Thorin 7623 : good news grim i passed my test and am now a member
HearNoEvil80 :Just wanted to drop in to say G'bye to everyone til I move and get internet set up again
:Knew you could do it
Thorin 7623
: thanx
VardaValar1 : The elves answer both yes and no
Eonwe Valar :good luck and take care :}
TurgonjustTurgon :its also non-willing like Finwe's wife.
HearNoEvil80 :Thanks. I'll be here but afk
: Pardon, working on a test and peeking back at the chat at the same time
Elwing V : Plz elaborate Turgon (I can't remember details well sometimes ) :-)
TurgonjustTurgon :well
Elwing V : Recently re-skimmed (if that's possible) LOR books, should do same with Silmarillion soon
TurgonjustTurgon :it was something like Finwe's wife (cant remember her name unfortunately) said to Finwe the following:
VardaValar1 : Miriel
TurgonjustTurgon :after she gave birth to Feanor (thanks) her spirit had gone into him and she had nothing left for this world
TurgonjustTurgon :so she went to Lorien, while Finwe thought she would recover, she laid herself down and her spirit departed her body
VardaValar1 : Her spirit was depleted
TurgonjustTurgon :as of today, her body remained, tended by the maidens of Lorien, until one day, possibly, her spirit might return
Elwing V : Ah, childbirth, I think that would be a special situation - and could be considered as her spirit continuing in the child (more literally than usual)
VardaValar1 : Are Turgon and Elwing the only ones live right now?
Orodreth V :Oops.
Elwing V : There's another live one :-)
Orodreth V :Sometimes books are too good.
Orodreth V :5th time I forgot I was going something in the past week thanks to Kim Stanley Robinson.
Orodreth V :*doing
Orodreth V :I say it's unwilling, but that they accept it, and can will it on faster if they so wish to. As for Miriel, I don't know. I think she accepted it.
TurgonjustTurgon :well, Miriel was the only one who it ever happened to
VardaValar1 : Celebrian
Orodreth V :It's part of the general feeling of Elves toward death - it's natural.
TurgonjustTurgon :in Miriels case, I think its rather acknowledging than accepting
VardaValar1 : Sounds right and probably true of most cases
Thorin 7623 : i must apologize but i have to take my leave. I shall see all of you again next sunday
Orodreth V :If you'll excuse me, I need to hide Blue Mars until this meeting is done or I won't come up for an hour.
VardaValar1 : Namarie
Thorin 7623 : i bid all of you namarie
Elwing V : Namarie
Orodreth V :Namarie
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VardaValar1 : Business meeting is over
VardaValar1 : The chat seems to have died
MoriFinwe : Aiya
VardaValar1 : Aiya
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Orodreth V :Aiya
MoriFinwe : forgot about meeting just got diablo back on
Orodreth V :Bother.
VardaValar1 : Glad you could pop in
Orodreth V : show everyone my pic.
Orodreth V :I'll have to wait until next week to
Orodreth V :Bah.
Orodreth V :that didn't work.
VardaValar1 : Elwing, would you like to re-tell the topic?
Elwing V : Sure...
Orodreth V :And in other news, I graduated from 8th grade with a full ceremony Friday.
Orodreth V :I'm on the right in that.
Orodreth V :/me shuts up
VardaValar1 : Congrats, Oro :-)
Elwing V : The discussion of elven "death by fading" and whether it's on purpose (self-done) or natural.
Orodreth V :Thanks, varda.
musics4me2 :well, I gotta go. Namarie
Orodreth V :Namarie.
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VardaValar1 : Bye Farmer
TurgonjustTurgon :sorry for being not all that active, but having a discussion with Eonwe concerning something of the MB :-)
TurgonjustTurgon :as for that, we could use a third brain to mull it over :-)
TurgonjustTurgon :so, Varda, youre invited :-)
Orodreth V :Hmm. Would agknowlegment of death by fading be the same thing as accptance in this case?
TurgonjustTurgon :yes
VardaValar1 : Eonwe and I are also testing, but I will come
TurgonjustTurgon :I think it is a whole world apart, but could be seen as the same from a certain point of view
Orodreth V :Once again relating to the Elve's general theroy upon death.
Orodreth V :And, you know, that whole If-you-die-you'll-be-reborn, thing. ;-)
Orodreth V :Mmm.
Elwing V : They consider death a natural thing altho elves are not supposed to die; however, sometimes it seems as though they send their spirit "out" before it would naturally leave them (in cases where they do die)...
Orodreth V :I just thought: If an elf were to want to die, to have no will for life anymore, would that not be the definition of the 'natural' fading?
VardaValar1 : That is the definition of fading
Orodreth V :So in the case of Celebrian, she had no will to live, hence fading.
Orodreth V :Indirectly choosen?
TurgonjustTurgon :or directly chosen in the case of Arwen :-)
Elwing V : Choosing a mortal life, which includes dying, is not quite the same as just choosing to die
Elwing V : She made her choice for love, a pretty good reason for living :-)
VardaValar1 : Choosing a mortal life is not fading
VardaValar1 : She could have lots of children too : )
Orodreth V :I'm sure there's a really cool philosophical idea I'm working at here, and i've got some weird Jamis Vu..which is really odd.
MoriFinwe : gtg Namarie
VardaValar1 : Namarie
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Orodreth V :Namarie
Orodreth V :Bah. Stupid KSR.
Orodreth V :Him and his phycological/philisopihical concepts.
Orodreth V :got my brain all muddled.
Orodreth V :Anyways, yes. Arwen indiredtly chose to die - only at the end did she decide to die, and even then it was unlike fading in that it was really instentanious.
Orodreth V :She could have fought it for quite awhile, which is unlike fading in that you want it to happen.l
Orodreth V :I suppose you could call what she did - and the Numoreans - as insentanoius fading.
Orodreth V :Feel free to stop my monologe, by the way.
Orodreth V :..that, and laugh at my mutliated use of the english language.
Elwing V : I think instantaneous fading would be like "poof" - you're gone :-)
Elwing V : Fading by definition is a bit slower process
Orodreth V :Hmm.
Orodreth V :The spirit was gone, at the least.
Orodreth V :Yes, hence instentanous fading.
Orodreth V :We do know it can be stopped - Celebrian didn't fade once she went to Valinor.
Orodreth V :She was healed and regained the will to live.
Orodreth V :So if you don't want to live, you fade, regardless of why. If, however, something should cause your will to live to return, you won't fade.
Elwing V : There might be some blurring of terminology...just saying the elves were fading could have meant as a group they were leaving (but still alive) across the sea; but an individual that was fading was probably losing spirit and dying
Orodreth V :By definition, you couldn't NOT accept that - you'd be wanting it to happen, barring any funny paradoxical things.
Orodreth V :The Elves were fading from the world as a whole, via ships, while an individual would fade from the world via Mandos.
Orodreth V :Is that what you're saying?
Elwing V : That seems to sum it up pretty well...I'm still trying to decide if I agree totally with it or not :-)
Orodreth V :Yes..
Orodreth V :I could imagine that more then a few of the Elves would indivudualy fade as the left as a whole.
Elwing V : Again, I must say I'm getting some of these ideas from what I read in the fanfics; seems as tho many of them have an elf (elves) having "out of body" incidents more than would be reasonable...
Elwing V : ...even if elves are REALLY good at healing themselves.
VardaValar1 : Going on ships is not fading
Orodreth V :I don't think I'm ppicking this up from fanfics.
Orodreth V :More likly making my own.
Orodreth V :Metaphoricly, it is.
Elwing V : I'm just getting started on the stories (good grief, I can't believe how many there are out there!!!) so maybe it's just me (so far) :-)
Orodreth V :There are far, far more bad then good. First hint: don't use Find a better site. I'm trying to, but I get distraced by writing and other things.
Elwing V : So far I've been going into the links thru this guild, so they've been pretty good stories
Orodreth V :Yup.
Orodreth V :Which makes me want to work on mine more, but I've hit writers block, and am considering scrapping most of this chapter...
Elwing V : Take Gimli's axe to that block!
Orodreth V :Ha.
Orodreth V :I might.
Orodreth V :Hrm.
Elwing V : I think I will have to fly soon (hee) so I will be saying my namaries now. Now that I know how to do this (get in chat) maybe I will be more of a regular at meets again.
Orodreth V :I need to find a certian map..hrm.
Orodreth V :Namarie
Elwing V : Been fun!
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TurgonjustTurgon :hmmmm
TurgonjustTurgon :something wrong in other chat
TurgonjustTurgon :nm, seems to have resovled
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Arwen V1 has entered the room.
Arwen V1 : Hi!
Orodreth V :Aiya
Orodreth V :Hoom.
Arwen V1 : Hoom =)
FladrifV :hoom...?
Eonwe Valar :Hoom hom,.. no burarum
Orodreth V :Can't find a good map of how far north the Helcaraxe touched Beleiand.
Arwen V1 : Fangorn Hooms, my favorite character.
Orodreth V :*Beleriand
VardaValar1 : Welcome to the Valar Guild, Khamul-V!
VardaValar1 : There is such a map
VardaValar1 : Tried our Maps page from the Encyc?
Arwen V1 : Lands1.htm ?
VardaValar1 : ps.htm
VardaValar1 : Celebrimbor's friend passed with a 5/5 : )
VardaValar1 : He gets bragging rights
Arwen V1 : Yay =D
Arwen V1 : Congratulations Khamul-V =)
VardaValar1 : I declare the meeting over and to now be in After-meeting : )
Eonwe Valar :Go After-meeting :}
Eonwe Valar :To answer your Forum Question Arwen, I have an X-box, but I don't play it online :}
FladrifV :I would like to know what kind of music the people here listen to :-)
Arwen V1 : Neither do I, but awesome =D
Arwen V1 : Do you play Halo, Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar :Sometimes with my friends, but I don't own it myself,.. hard for me to get into FPS most of the time
Arwen V1 : ahh, the X-box is actually my brother's and that is what he likes, so we mainly play that. We are both pretty excited about Halo 2 being released in November.
Arwen V1 : what kind of games do you play on it?
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Eonwe Valar :Recently? Ninja Gaiden. I also have DDR Ultramix, RotK by EA games, and another that I don't remember what it is :}
Eonwe Valar :oh yes, also LotR:FotR by Black Label/Vivendi
Arwen V1 : =D is Ninja gaiden good?
FladrifV :Namarie xbox players :-)
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Eonwe Valar :Oh, it's loads of fun :}
Eonwe Valar :take care Fladrif :}
Arwen V1 : what genre is it?
Eonwe Valar :it takes timing and a level of "ninjanuity" to figure out how to get some places :}
Eonwe Valar :Action
Arwen V1 : aha, I like that "ninjanuity"
Arwen V1 : Have you played the DOA games?
Eonwe Valar :Wish I could claim it as mine :}
Eonwe Valar :I've played DoA 3, but don't own it :}
Arwen V1 : the only one I've played was the horrid beach vollyball one. =/
Eonwe Valar :I've seen it, again, don't own it :} Never really into sports games, and this one seems to have little to do with actual sports anyway :}
Arwen V1 : true, too true.
Arwen V1 : besides its just a button pusher when you remove all the fancy wrappings. push button to hit ball, push button to serve. boring =)
Celebrimbor V : we have a new member!
Eonwe Valar :Push button to move screen around to view pretty ladies :}
Celebrimbor V : Khamul!
Celebrimbor V : namarie all......I must go
Eonwe Valar :take care :}
Arwen V1 : byebye!
Celebrimbor V has left the room.
Arwen V1 : Eonwe, true, but not my interest, so it was pretty boring.
Arwen V1 : What else do you play?
Eonwe Valar :was simply adding to the list of button-pushing, not making any claims :}
Arwen V1 : Oh.. okay =P
Eonwe Valar :Well, mostly I focus on Action and Fighting games on my consoles,.. RTS and some RPG on computer
Arwen V1 : Neat =)
Arwen V1 : Which RPG?
Eonwe Valar :D2 :}
Arwen V1 : =)
Eonwe Valar :Although I can't really claim that since I hardly get a chance to play it
Arwen V1 : aww =/
Arwen V1 : such a fun game
VardaValar1 : He's into the Tolkien mod of D2X too : )
Eonwe Valar :Normally I'd used this chance to plug the ME mod, lol,.. think I'll resist :}
Eonwe Valar :hehe, Varda did it for me :}
Arwen V1 : What is it like?
Eonwe Valar :In some ways it's easier then LoD, and in others it's harder,.. and overall it's more fun :}
Arwen V1 : How is it more fun though? =)
Eonwe Valar :TOlkien-themed item names, character class names, place names,.. somewhat strange story line (by admission of the creators) but fun nonetheless :}
Eonwe Valar :For one, there's fewer one-hit kills unless you're actually in over your head
Eonwe Valar :defense means something
Eonwe Valar :so does AR
Arwen V1 : neat =D
Arwen V1 : is there a page on this mod somewhere?
Eonwe Valar :If you take your enemies carefully and in reasonable amounts, you should die rarely, though you may at times goes through several potions.
Eonwe Valar :The VK mods page,..
Eonwe Valar : I believe
Arwen V1 : aha, thank you =D
Eonwe Valar :MP :}
VardaValar1 : When you have time, Eonwe, can you send the meeting notes?
VardaValar1 : Mine have this big hole... : )
Eonwe Valar :On their way :}
VardaValar1 : Thanks!
Eonwe Valar :Wow, V&K have changed the look of their site
VardaValar1 : Using Games page, it's
VardaValar1 :