Valar Guild

June 27, 2004 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST, 22:00 GMT

News page

Meeting Begins
Membership
    Lady Fallun joins as Gilraen-V, testing during meeting
Web
    Forum
Gaming
    New guild branch: America's Army
    D2X Ladder about to end, what we are doing about it
Tolkien
    Elendil's older son Herendil, who was later dropped from the story line
After-meeting (Tolkien continues, Gilraen announced)

Before-Meeting:
(3:00:13 PM) You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
(4:24:09 PM) ArPharazonV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (4:24:17 PM): well, quite a crowd once again
ArPharazonV (4:24:26 PM): sure varies with the week
(4:37:19 PM) TurgonjustTurgon has entered the room.
(4:42:02 PM) Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (4:42:18 PM): If I could be here twice ;-)
Eonwe Valar (4:42:18 PM): heya :}
ArPharazonV (4:42:20 PM): aiya
Eonwe Valar (4:42:54 PM): Just sending out invites on my way in :}
(4:44:04 PM) VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (4:44:12 PM): Aiya
ArPharazonV (4:44:19 PM): Aiya
Eonwe Valar (4:45:52 PM): heya
(4:47:19 PM) MJKeenan123 has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (4:47:26 PM): Aiya!
(4:47:53 PM) Lady Fallun has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (4:48:01 PM): That worked : )
Lady Fallun (4:48:11 PM): Yep, thanks :-)
ArPharazonV (4:48:26 PM): Aiya, Aiya
ArPharazonV (4:48:32 PM): not paying attention... sorry
VardaValar1 (4:48:33 PM): Gwaihir out flying?
VardaValar1 (4:48:40 PM): np, meeting hasn't started
Lady Fallun (4:48:44 PM): My computer is evil... well, my isp is... so I'm
afraid you can expect a lot of to-ing and fro-ing from me today
Lady Fallun (4:48:52 PM): He's at work
VardaValar1 (4:48:59 PM): Thought I'd start inviting a bit earlier than usual
VardaValar1 (4:49:07 PM): Thanks
Lady Fallun (4:49:50 PM): ^_^
Lady Fallun (4:49:50 PM): How is everyone today?
ArPharazonV (4:50:04 PM): nan mara!
VardaValar1 (4:50:26 PM): Eowyn and Arwen say hi
ArPharazonV (4:50:36 PM): finished main quest morrowind today, and
discovered a cool forum game.. but enough from me, how are you?
VardaValar1 (4:50:37 PM): Fangorn would say hi but he's asleep
Eonwe Valar (4:50:37 PM): Heya to the princesses :}
Eonwe Valar (4:50:53 PM): Heya to the treeish Ent :}
Eonwe Valar (4:51:22 PM): I'm doing fine,.. Administrating the Forum right
now :}
(4:51:46 PM) Lady Fallun has left the room.
VardaValar1 (4:51:48 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (4:54:46 PM): pm's, pm's : )
ArPharazonV (4:55:17 PM): still browsing through the game... I'll check the
meeting when I hear the 'message' sound :-)
VardaValar1 (4:55:36 PM): What message?
ArPharazonV (4:55:43 PM): like that, yes
ArPharazonV (4:55:58 PM): a message in the chatroom, I mean :-)
(4:59:33 PM) Lady Fallun has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon (5:00:29 PM): hmmmz... I dont get that sound when in a
chat session...
ArPharazonV (5:00:45 PM): you can switch it on :9
ArPharazonV (5:00:49 PM): :-)
TurgonjustTurgon (5:01:10 PM): tried, still doesnt work
TurgonjustTurgon (5:01:14 PM): talk me through it :-)
ArPharazonV (5:01:57 PM): file, chat preferences
ArPharazonV (5:02:12 PM): 'sounds' under Chat Room Window
VardaValar1 (5:02:29 PM): But we're always typing : )
ArPharazonV (5:02:31 PM): check 'play a sound when messages are
received'
ArPharazonV (5:02:44 PM): that should do the trick
(5:02:44 PM) ArathornValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (5:02:47 PM): aiya
ArathornValar (5:02:55 PM): hm.. odd ... couldn't join room :/
VardaValar1 (5:04:30 PM): Glad you could make it somehow
VardaValar1 (5:05:23 PM): Maybe that is why our numbers are low
VardaValar1 (5:05:42 PM): Let's start
top

VardaValar1 (5:05:51 PM): Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1 (5:06:03 PM): Membership News:
VardaValar1 (5:06:23 PM): Thorondor is away for Midsummer Fest in
Finland
VardaValar1 (5:06:29 PM): The sun shines all night then : )
VardaValar1 (5:06:35 PM): Might as well party
VardaValar1 (5:06:44 PM): His letter is on the News
VardaValar1 (5:07:02 PM): Farmer Maggot is on vacation, probably back
around Aug 1
ArPharazonV (5:07:10 PM): for exactly 1 night in the year, the sun shines all
night?
ArPharazonV (5:07:14 PM): that's cool
VardaValar1 (5:07:22 PM): Gwaihir is at work right now, thank you Lady
Fallun for letting us know
Lady Fallun (5:08:00 PM): no problem at all
VardaValar1 (5:09:15 PM): Pardon, seems Thorondor is currently asleep.
Wore his wings out
VardaValar1 (5:09:29 PM): Thanks Arathorn for that update from Bnet
VardaValar1 (5:09:49 PM): Any other Member News?
top

VardaValar1 (5:10:01 PM): Web News:
VardaValar1 (5:10:08 PM): Forum:
VardaValar1 (5:10:20 PM): Turgon has been working very hard on the Links
section.
VardaValar1 (5:10:28 PM): Turgon, would you like to tell about it?
TurgonjustTurgon (5:10:33 PM): aye
TurgonjustTurgon (5:10:55 PM): today, I have finally finished the work of
gathering every link on the board in one place
TurgonjustTurgon (5:11:42 PM): the threads in the new links subsection
under the community section has it's threads from top to bottom in the
same arrangement as it is viewed on the board
TurgonjustTurgon (5:12:19 PM): every link gathered there also references to
who posted the link and where on the board it was posted, so anyone
checking a link can easily see what the link is about
TurgonjustTurgon (5:13:12 PM): everyone can reply in those threads if they
have posted a link on the board somewhere, I will yet update the how to
post such links
TurgonjustTurgon (5:14:10 PM): every once in a while I will update the
threads and integrate any links posted there into the first post, so they can
easily be found where they were originally posted, without the thread
getting jammed with new link posts
TurgonjustTurgon (5:14:19 PM): and thats basically it for now
VardaValar1 (5:14:28 PM): Thank you, very hard-working Turgon!
TurgonjustTurgon (5:14:32 PM): any further info will be available on the MB
:-)
TurgonjustTurgon (5:14:38 PM): soon that is :-)
VardaValar1 (5:15:22 PM): Middle-earth Maps
VardaValar1 (5:15:43 PM): A lawyer from the Tolkien Estates has been
shutting down a lot of M-e maps
VardaValar1 (5:16:08 PM): He wants them to be licensed with the TE even if
non-profit and made on our own
VardaValar1 (5:16:48 PM): This could slop over into other areas
VardaValar1 (5:16:55 PM): You may note that many maps are now down
ArPharazonV (5:17:04 PM): lost my avatar for a while because of it :-(
VardaValar1 (5:17:07 PM): You might want to grab some left and download
to your hard drive
VardaValar1 (5:17:16 PM): Phar, I did not know about that
VardaValar1 (5:17:20 PM): How did they contact you?
ArPharazonV (5:17:28 PM): well, they didn't, but
ArathornValar (5:17:38 PM): hmm.. I'll have to delete from mt dir
too then... some MEO references there I think
ArPharazonV (5:17:52 PM): I had it linked to the map on the encyclopedia,
annals of arda, so it had no source for a while
VardaValar1 (5:17:56 PM): Wait until they ask you to drop
VardaValar1 (5:18:02 PM): Dont' panic drop
VardaValar1 (5:18:19 PM): ah, got it
ArPharazonV (5:18:22 PM): but I had used it also on another site, which
automatically uploaded it to their forum
ArathornValar (5:18:27 PM): ok.. will do (seems AWFULLY greedy
of them <sigh>)
ArPharazonV (5:18:37 PM): so, now I linked back, and it's back in the mb,
my avatar :-)
VardaValar1 (5:19:12 PM): Note that this is happening after the movies. I
suspect the New Line people wanted a stricter policing, or some of the
game folk. I don't actually know, but the timing is interesting
ArPharazonV (5:19:38 PM): I just can't remember if I used the avatar on
other forums... ah well, I'll change it when I see it
VardaValar1 (5:19:43 PM): Anyone else have a problem?
TurgonjustTurgon (5:20:01 PM): nope, the maps hosted on my site are still
up and no email ..... yet
TurgonjustTurgon (5:20:23 PM): only 2 of them but 2's better than none :-)
ArathornValar (5:20:27 PM): Greed, pure and simple :-\
VardaValar1 (5:21:02 PM): Aye, Arathorn. The source of that is probably
not originating with Tolkien Estates, is my thought, due to the timing
VardaValar1 (5:21:13 PM): My hope anyway : )
VardaValar1 (5:21:32 PM): Do not drop anything until required. Do not
panic
ArPharazonV (5:21:49 PM): it's a conspiracy I say! we're being tricked!!!
ArPharazonV (5:21:51 PM): ahum....
VardaValar1 (5:21:53 PM): Elatan is working on getting his license, so his
maps will probably go back up
VardaValar1 (5:21:55 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (5:22:24 PM): Elatan said it's not a trick, or hoax. He checked.
It went through snail mail, and he checked with the office
VardaValar1 (5:22:53 PM): I've emailed the Tolkien Estate, one of the
lawyers, and hope to hear back about the truth of this
ArathornValar (5:23:01 PM): License?
VardaValar1 (5:23:03 PM): Please let me know if anyone else has a problem
VardaValar1 (5:23:25 PM): I wanted to know if that was a real lawyer from
the Tolkien Estate harassing the map makers
VardaValar1 (5:23:40 PM): Yes, Elatan applied for a "limited license"
ArathornValar (5:23:52 PM): er.. now we need a Tolkien license? ..
hope it's not like the DMV :/
VardaValar1 (5:23:53 PM): He makes no money, does all as before, but has
to be licensed
VardaValar1 (5:24:10 PM): Like I said, wait until we are talked to about it
VardaValar1 (5:24:26 PM): The Estate web page is not helpful on what we
may and may not do
VardaValar1 (5:24:41 PM): Any other Web news?
ArathornValar (5:24:42 PM): Weher did he obtain the license, from
them?..
VardaValar1 (5:25:03 PM): The Tolkien Estate lawyer is who he worked
through
VardaValar1 (5:25:14 PM): The Tolkien Estate's page is listed on our site
VardaValar1 (5:25:21 PM): You can go straight to them from there if you like
(5:25:23 PM) MoriFinwe has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (5:25:24 PM): Be nice : )
ArathornValar (5:25:25 PM): I see, ok.
VardaValar1 (5:25:27 PM): Aiya!
ArPharazonV (5:25:30 PM): aiya!
MoriFinwe (5:25:31 PM): Aiya
ArathornValar (5:25:48 PM): Nice? Always! ;-)
VardaValar1 (5:26:15 PM): O good : )
VardaValar1 (5:26:22 PM): Gaming section next
VardaValar1 (5:26:39 PM): Caranthir, you wanted to start a branch in
America's Army?
VardaValar1 (5:26:46 PM): Would you like to tell us your thoughts?
TurgonjustTurgon (5:26:46 PM): some webnews yet
VardaValar1 (5:27:06 PM): Pardon, Caranthir, One sec
VardaValar1 (5:27:09 PM): Go ahead Turgon
TurgonjustTurgon (5:27:20 PM): just a funfact of the MB
TurgonjustTurgon (5:27:41 PM): just prior to this meeting, we had an online
count of 8 guests and 4 members
VardaValar1 (5:27:47 PM): MB = Message Board = Forum
ArPharazonV (5:27:47 PM): 9!
TurgonjustTurgon (5:27:49 PM): quite excellent if you ask me :-)
ArPharazonV (5:27:56 PM): 9 guests
TurgonjustTurgon (5:27:58 PM): missed the 9, just stating what I saw :-)
VardaValar1 (5:28:07 PM): Any idea what they are looking at?
ArPharazonV (5:28:14 PM): ahh.... well, I saw 4 guests and 9 members ;-)
ArPharazonV (5:28:19 PM): *other way around
ArPharazonV (5:28:53 PM): Users Online9 Guests, 4 MembersEonwe,
ArPharazon, Turgon, Varda
VardaValar1 (5:29:34 PM): Glad we can still make connection : )
TurgonjustTurgon (5:29:41 PM): aye :-)
VardaValar1 (5:29:57 PM): Do we have a way to tell what is interesting all
these guests? I see quite a few at odd times
TurgonjustTurgon (5:30:50 PM): I dont think so
TurgonjustTurgon (5:31:15 PM): I have seen it done in private PHP hosted
boards, but since this is a public one, I dont think we have that much
power
VardaValar1 (5:32:06 PM): Ok, no real importance. Just curious
top

VardaValar1 (5:32:18 PM): Back to Gaming:
VardaValar1 (5:32:35 PM): Caranthir, could you tell us what you had in mind
for a potential branch in America's Army?
VardaValar1 (5:34:50 PM): hey, Morifinwe?
VardaValar1 (5:34:55 PM): You're up
VardaValar1 (5:35:12 PM): Guess he's already afk
VardaValar1 (5:35:20 PM): Arathorn, could you report on it for him?
VardaValar1 (5:36:12 PM): Somebody nudge Arathorn?
mikenowo (5:36:15 PM): hmmm my other aim is locked up... jas
ArathornValar (5:36:35 PM): testing...
ArathornValar (5:36:40 PM): there... ok, ...
VardaValar1 (5:36:48 PM): there you are. Lot of us having trouble
ArathornValar (5:37:03 PM): er.. I don't know what he has in mind,
I didn't hear back from him via email so..
VardaValar1 (5:37:16 PM): I heard
ArPharazonV (5:37:26 PM): well, I haven't posted in a while (though that
seems to be going around a lot now), but I haven't had a single problem
VardaValar1 (5:37:28 PM): Caranthir, you back yet?
VardaValar1 (5:37:39 PM): heh
ArathornValar (5:37:51 PM): I downloaded the game and Turgon and
I did some of the tests..
VardaValar1 (5:37:56 PM): Caranthir suggested we start a guild branch in
America's Army
VardaValar1 (5:38:06 PM): It's a free download game, as I understand
TurgonjustTurgon (5:38:13 PM): 728 MB's
VardaValar1 (5:38:17 PM): We can set up a Forum section for it
VardaValar1 (5:38:21 PM): Thanks, Turgon : )
ArathornValar (5:38:29 PM): You have to complete some written and
REAL time tests to be able to play some of the maps
TurgonjustTurgon (5:38:33 PM): could do that tomorrow
VardaValar1 (5:38:59 PM): I'm writing down whoever I know of in the AA
on the Activity page, but it's best if they tell Eonwe for the Games page,
much easier to read
TurgonjustTurgon (5:39:00 PM): aye, the servers have an indication on
which test must be completed to play on it
ArathornValar (5:39:08 PM): The Special Ops was tough ... I finally
passed it witht a 93% ... but can't figure out what I'm
getting wrong <chuckle>
Eonwe Valar (5:39:42 PM): You blabbed about your score,.. just lost
another point,.. it was supposed to be Top Secret :}
VardaValar1 (5:39:44 PM): Caranthir seems to be offering to do the work of
handling the branch
VardaValar1 (5:39:49 PM): hehe Eonwe : )
ArathornValar (5:40:08 PM): I have snapshots of the test and the
objscts you'd need to study to pass it... could alway put it
up if anyone needs it (as a web section)
VardaValar1 (5:40:25 PM): Would that be a kosher thing to do? : )
ArathornValar (5:40:27 PM): why would my score have to be secret?
VardaValar1 (5:40:36 PM): He was kidding you, good buddy
TurgonjustTurgon (5:40:40 PM): because its special forces, and therefore
secret
Eonwe Valar (5:40:44 PM): It was a joke Arathorn :} Special Ops? :}
ArathornValar (5:41:08 PM): well... it would be a hint section... you
still have only 15 seconds to loko at a pic then anser the
questions.
TurgonjustTurgon (5:41:26 PM): heh
TurgonjustTurgon (5:41:30 PM): like thats so hard
ArathornValar (5:41:35 PM): I see.. thought you knew something
agout the game I didn't :-P
TurgonjustTurgon (5:41:41 PM): the hard part is to memorize all the darn
info
VardaValar1 (5:41:52 PM): Arathorn, you volunteering to do a front page
web page for America's Army, for the guild branch?
ArathornValar (5:42:13 PM): that's why I'm saying this would be a
hint section ... snapshots of the info
VardaValar1 (5:42:14 PM): It could have a link to the Main guild page and
the Forum. Doesn't have to have a lot
ArathornValar (5:42:55 PM): Depends if it's required. If nobody
needs it then no real point in creating one.
TurgonjustTurgon (5:42:57 PM): just the regular stuff, reverting images,
mouse-overs, that sort of things :-P
VardaValar1 (5:43:18 PM): It would be a spot to point at for your info if you
make any sort
VardaValar1 (5:43:40 PM): It's a nice thing for any formal branch, but I don't
know if there are any guild requirements for AA
VardaValar1 (5:43:45 PM): Do any of you know/
VardaValar1 (5:43:45 PM): ?
ArathornValar (5:43:57 PM): Could have where to download from,
some simple startup instructions that they have in the
WUick Start though.. that would help the newcomer
TurgonjustTurgon (5:44:00 PM): question comes to mind, where shall I put
the AA section on the board
VardaValar1 (5:44:14 PM): Aye, Arathorn. That sort of thing
Eonwe Valar (5:44:30 PM): Put it With Half-Life/CounterStrike for better
grouping
VardaValar1 (5:44:37 PM): Good thought
MoriFinwe (5:44:46 PM): Aiya sry for not being here
ArathornValar (5:44:48 PM): BTW, for Christmas I want new
fingers... these keep typing incorrectly <sigh>
TurgonjustTurgon (5:44:49 PM): as a different section or as a subsection=
Eonwe Valar (5:45:08 PM): different section, just above or below the HL
section
ArPharazonV (5:45:10 PM): Christmas? You want to wait so long?
MoriFinwe (5:45:14 PM): Was just checking mail and had to respond to it
TurgonjustTurgon (5:45:16 PM): dangit, aims blasted my kb again :-\
VardaValar1 (5:45:27 PM): Suppose we should lump MMORPG's by each
other?
ArathornValar (5:45:28 PM): can't think of another present holiday
:-P
VardaValar1 (5:45:40 PM): Unbirthday is handy : )
Lady Fallun (5:45:41 PM): halloween? :-P
Eonwe Valar (5:45:43 PM): Well, I like the ide aof sticking the Tolkien games
at the top :}
VardaValar1 (5:45:52 PM): Good point, Eonwe
TurgonjustTurgon (5:45:54 PM): on it
VardaValar1 (5:46:02 PM): You'd think we were a Tolkien fan club...
ArathornValar (5:46:12 PM): Unbirthday...? Alice in wonderland?
Eonwe Valar (5:46:16 PM): Who would think that? :}
VardaValar1 (5:46:28 PM): aye, Alice in Wonderland had some good ideas :
)
ArathornValar (5:46:49 PM): Hmm.. fingers on Halloween.. I kinda
LIKE that!
VardaValar1 (5:46:56 PM): While Turgon the Hard-Working puts in still
another Forum section,
VardaValar1 (5:47:06 PM): Diablo 2:LoD news:
Eonwe Valar (5:47:19 PM): V4 is gonna be real fun,.. can't wait to see how
we get to try and organize the stuffthen :}
VardaValar1 (5:47:21 PM): The Ladder is supposed to be closing down
"soon" according to Battlenet
VardaValar1 (5:47:35 PM): V4?
Eonwe Valar (5:47:51 PM): pardon, Proboards versoin 4 :} the one they're
still working on but will hopefully be out soon :}
VardaValar1 (5:48:16 PM): Need to back up again
VardaValar1 (5:48:26 PM): Back to America's Army
VardaValar1 (5:48:47 PM): Caranthir is back with us : ) Take it away,
Morifinwe!
MoriFinwe (5:49:05 PM): Well America's Army is a first person shooter
MoriFinwe (5:49:22 PM): I've been playing it for 2 years now
ArathornValar (5:49:31 PM): eep.. a ringer! <chuckle>
MoriFinwe (5:49:54 PM): I thought it would be a good idea to get the guild
involved
TurgonjustTurgon (5:50:05 PM): done, reordered, Tolkien games up top,
MMO´s bunched together and AA added at the end
TurgonjustTurgon (5:50:18 PM): (after halflife)
ArathornValar (5:50:21 PM): er.. did you get any of my emails
Caranthir?
VardaValar1 (5:50:31 PM): Impressive, Turgon! M-e Online still up with
Tolkien games?
MoriFinwe (5:50:31 PM): I know a few of my friends that play aa but dont
ahve any bnet games and that would like to join the clan
TurgonjustTurgon (5:50:58 PM): aye, just moved WotR to the absolute top
so MMO ordering wouldnt get smashed
ArPharazonV (5:51:18 PM): 'you know, the regular stuff' :-D
MoriFinwe (5:51:23 PM): As Arathorn emailed me he and Turgon are getting
into aa.
VardaValar1 (5:51:27 PM): Well, start by telling them we're a Guild, and
why we call it that : )
VardaValar1 (5:51:46 PM): Galadriel has been in AA quite a while too, using
guild name
VardaValar1 (5:51:53 PM): Is Europe separate?
MoriFinwe (5:52:09 PM): Aye it was her that got me thinking about it
MoriFinwe (5:52:13 PM): no
VardaValar1 (5:52:24 PM): Ah, great! Did you talk?
MoriFinwe (5:52:25 PM): they have european servers but anyone can play in
them
MoriFinwe (5:52:34 PM): No i havent had a chance
VardaValar1 (5:52:48 PM): So how did Galadriel start you off?
MoriFinwe (5:52:58 PM): I was looking at all the members and saw that she
played aa
MoriFinwe (5:53:15 PM): I tought there could be others that play it
Eonwe Valar (5:53:18 PM): he, btw :}
MoriFinwe (5:53:32 PM): O sry
ArathornValar (5:53:49 PM): Galadriel's a he?
Eonwe Valar (5:54:05 PM): He goes way back :}
VardaValar1 (5:54:08 PM): Galadriel is a member from the earliest days
VardaValar1 (5:54:15 PM): He grandfathered into the name
MoriFinwe (5:54:19 PM): Ive already done all the training except special
forces
ArathornValar (5:54:29 PM): er.. I thought we had to be the same as
our real gender?
VardaValar1 (5:54:30 PM): The gender naming thing came up later, from Eru
ArathornValar (5:54:37 PM): ahh.. I see.
VardaValar1 (5:54:47 PM): Yes, Arathorn, but that rule did not start until
way after
MoriFinwe (5:54:56 PM): When the new version 2.1 came out it was a total
nightmare
VardaValar1 (5:54:57 PM): These ancient guilds have a history : )
VardaValar1 (5:55:06 PM): Total nightmare/
VardaValar1 (5:55:06 PM): ?
MoriFinwe (5:55:13 PM): system errors lag and server crashes
ArathornValar (5:55:25 PM): That could be embarrasing <chuckle>
MoriFinwe (5:55:36 PM): They have finally got it under control.
VardaValar1 (5:55:46 PM): *whew*
ArathornValar (5:55:47 PM): Last time I had played was v 1.7 ...
ArathornValar (5:55:51 PM): back in Jan.
MoriFinwe (5:56:04 PM): It was due to the new "Rag Doll Tactics"
VardaValar1 (5:56:23 PM): Your AA buddies with no Bnet can test in AIM.
Another free download and would be very helpful getting together
TurgonjustTurgon (5:56:39 PM): hmmm... advanced weapons training is still
locked to me :-\
MoriFinwe (5:56:45 PM): I will talk to them i believe they do have it.
ArathornValar (5:57:08 PM): "Rag Doll Tactics"?
VardaValar1 (5:57:12 PM): Doesn't take long to get
MoriFinwe (5:57:13 PM): Rag Doll Tactics cause ppl when shot to roll down
the hill
VardaValar1 (5:57:33 PM): You know the drill. They need to be polite,
honorable, have read LotR
MoriFinwe (5:57:37 PM): when hit by a grenade to fly in to the air
MoriFinwe (5:57:42 PM): Aye
VardaValar1 (5:57:44 PM): If not, don't waste their time
VardaValar1 (5:57:56 PM): They can be guild friends until they manage to
join
ArathornValar (5:58:10 PM): Did that cause the game to crash?
MoriFinwe (5:58:17 PM): It was extremly good graphics but the servers that
they made werent up to the abuse
ArathornValar (5:58:24 PM): ahh.
MoriFinwe (5:58:25 PM): It did
ArPharazonV (5:58:32 PM): yes, I was in a game with a 10-year-old who
wanted to join clan vala btw, yesterday in tft
VardaValar1 (5:58:55 PM): I've been told Clan Vala is re-starting
MoriFinwe (5:58:57 PM): Still there are game and server crashes
ArPharazonV (5:58:59 PM): when I said we were a Tolkien guild, he said:
'Tolkien? What's that?'
ArathornValar (5:59:03 PM): oh, btw, you mentioned
"AAOTracker", I don't see anywhere to downlaod that
from?
VardaValar1 (5:59:11 PM): Did you tell them we are the Valar Guild,
different group?
ArathornValar (5:59:14 PM): Only see Qtracker on their site
VardaValar1 (5:59:17 PM): ouch, Phar : )
Eonwe Valar (5:59:19 PM): Clan Vala is just the WC3 branch of the valar
Guild,.. same rules for joining apply
VardaValar1 (5:59:31 PM): Clan Vala and Clan Valar
Eonwe Valar (5:59:32 PM): I assume that's what he meant since he was in
TFT
VardaValar1 (5:59:33 PM): ouch
MoriFinwe (5:59:35 PM): I e-mailed it to you Arathorn :-)
ArPharazonV (5:59:46 PM): After a bit of explaining, he said he had read
rotk, and seen the movies
MoriFinwe (5:59:49 PM): Its at www.aaotracker.com
Eonwe Valar (5:59:52 PM): Kind of why I call them the Valar Clan :}
ArPharazonV (6:00:06 PM): but he hated reading, and thought talking about
books was boring :-)
MoriFinwe (6:00:07 PM): You dont need to dl it all ur have to do is register
ArPharazonV (6:00:31 PM): so, that was it then.... now he's going to try and
setup his own clan
VardaValar1 (6:00:35 PM): I think they call themselves Clan Valar
ArathornValar (6:00:39 PM): ahh..ok.. didn;t have that email b4 :-)
VardaValar1 (6:00:50 PM): He can join another without our rules
MoriFinwe (6:00:54 PM): Ya i sent it while i was afk
VardaValar1 (6:01:00 PM): Like the Valar Clan :-)
VardaValar1 (6:01:05 PM): Speaking of
VardaValar1 (6:01:16 PM): We've seen some odd names in our main
channel
VardaValar1 (6:01:25 PM): Eonwe, would you care to tell about them?
Eonwe Valar (6:01:31 PM): sure
VardaValar1 (6:01:35 PM): Maybe you guys know who they are
Eonwe Valar (6:02:04 PM): First, on Friday, a guy named Valar-Manwe
popped in and out of Channel Valar, saying nothing and apparently on his
way to game
Eonwe Valar (6:02:42 PM): On Saturday, a person named MelkorV was
sitting in our channel. Again, no reply to my greeting, but unlike the other,
he was sitting in channel for some time
VardaValar1 (6:03:24 PM): They don't seem to be our guys of the same
name
ArPharazonV (6:05:14 PM): wow, finally done reading the forum game.... I
can now fully join the meeting :-)
ArPharazonV (6:05:33 PM): I started like 4 hours ago....
ArPharazonV (6:05:42 PM): over a 1000 messages at least
VardaValar1 (6:05:42 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (6:06:09 PM): So do any of you guys know those folk or their
group that seems to be using our channel?
ArPharazonV (6:06:22 PM): you know, I haven't been on Channel Valar in a
long time, I think
TurgonjustTurgon (6:06:23 PM): talking with Eonwe on if and how to
implement that game :-)
VardaValar1 (6:06:25 PM): Impressive, Phar : )
ArathornValar (6:06:28 PM): hmm.. I've noticed those 2 peple
before too... lukers <heh>
ArathornValar (6:06:38 PM): *lurkers
MoriFinwe (6:06:50 PM): No i haven't I've been hanging around in channel
clan coe
VardaValar1 (6:06:53 PM): See if you can talk to them pleasantly, see if they
are in another group
ArPharazonV (6:07:15 PM): would be cool, another guild like ours
VardaValar1 (6:07:28 PM): I've seen many try it, but they all keel over
ArPharazonV (6:07:37 PM): resistance is futile.... you will be assimilated....
VardaValar1 (6:07:45 PM): We tend to pick up the crashed pieces
VardaValar1 (6:07:52 PM): Not really trying to assimilate : )
VardaValar1 (6:08:13 PM): Would like to be friendly if possible though, and
keep our names from crossing up, such as MelkorV
ArPharazonV (6:08:34 PM): that would imply another Valar-oriented Tolkien
group, at least
VardaValar1 (6:08:42 PM): That naming could collide unpleasantly with ours,
and we could fix the problem before it becomes an argument
ArathornValar (6:08:43 PM): er.. I'm missing something... what game
you talking about Turgon... and who is keeling over <ack..
can't make sense of the chat... removes head... rattles brain
and puts back on...>
VardaValar1 (6:08:54 PM): Use scroll, Ara : )
ArathornValar (6:09:11 PM): I did... still lost
VardaValar1 (6:09:27 PM): ArPharazon, Clan Valar was around for a little
while
VardaValar1 (6:09:34 PM): They started using our channel, so we met
VardaValar1 (6:09:42 PM): They shifted to channel Valar)
VardaValar1 (6:10:08 PM): Then they mostly keeled over, and some of their
members joined us
VardaValar1 (6:10:30 PM): I've heard a rumor that it is re-starting or another
of the same name, but they may not know any Tolkien
VardaValar1 (6:10:38 PM): Just think it is a cool name
VardaValar1 (6:10:54 PM): Might be trying to ride our coat tails, I don't
know. Haven't met new group
TurgonjustTurgon (6:11:01 PM): heh, we´ll pick up any stragglers if they
meet our expectations as usual :-)
VardaValar1 (6:11:25 PM): I don't want to break up any other guilds
VardaValar1 (6:11:40 PM): We do allow double memberships if they want
that, but let's not push them around : )
VardaValar1 (6:11:54 PM): We want quality, not just stragglers : )
TurgonjustTurgon (6:11:56 PM): neither do I, but were always ready and
happy to pick up those whose clans have fallen apart :-)
VardaValar1 (6:12:16 PM): We do, aye Turgon. If they like our game style
Eonwe Valar (6:12:21 PM): As long as they meet our requirements :}
TurgonjustTurgon (6:12:22 PM): of course, didn´t say `if they meet our
expectations` for naught :-)
VardaValar1 (6:12:28 PM): It would help to know another group to send the
others to though
VardaValar1 (6:12:39 PM): Not just leave them in the cold
VardaValar1 (6:13:09 PM): Caranthir, question on AA
VardaValar1 (6:13:17 PM): What name are you using there?
VardaValar1 (6:13:41 PM): Caranthir? Morifinwe? Hey buddy
TurgonjustTurgon (6:13:51 PM): Alas, I have bad news, I need to get some
sleep, had a heavy weekend and day starts early tomorrow
ArathornValar (6:14:07 PM): er.. Turgon which name did you use on
AA?
TurgonjustTurgon (6:14:11 PM): Ondolinde
MoriFinwe (6:14:13 PM): Yes?
VardaValar1 (6:14:23 PM): Good night, Turgon :-)
MoriFinwe (6:14:24 PM): Caranthir
ArathornValar (6:14:28 PM): ok... I'll have to create an Arathorn
one
ArathornValar (6:14:35 PM): my other's an old one
VardaValar1 (6:14:36 PM): Caranthir, what name are you using for guild?
TurgonjustTurgon (6:14:37 PM): couldnt get Turgon, so I went for another
standard name I have used since DaoC :-)
TurgonjustTurgon (6:14:44 PM): Namarie
VardaValar1 (6:14:48 PM): Namarie
TurgonjustTurgon (6:14:52 PM): Elen sila lumenn omentielmo
MoriFinwe (6:14:57 PM): Caranthir-V will be the name I am changing it right
now
(6:15:02 PM) TurgonjustTurgon has left the room.
VardaValar1 (6:15:18 PM): We have many versions we can use when our
main name won't work
ArathornValar (6:15:25 PM): Umm.. ok, Caranthir? How does the
AAO tracker site work.. ?
VardaValar1 (6:15:37 PM): For instance, Turgon as Gondolin's king could
call himself Gondolin-V
ArathornValar (6:15:38 PM): WHat do I look for when I get there?
MoriFinwe (6:15:58 PM): You have to register first i think
ArathornValar (6:16:13 PM): ok... trying tha now..
MoriFinwe (6:16:25 PM): You register make up any name you want thats
appropriate
ArPharazonV (6:16:38 PM): I could be Numenor-V?
MoriFinwe (6:16:41 PM): then you type in the name you use when you play
ArathornValar (6:16:48 PM): hmm... member page is down... not sure
if I can reg now.
ArathornValar (6:17:15 PM): ok... and then how do I find who's
online?
MoriFinwe (6:17:49 PM): You then register for the CLan
ArathornValar (6:17:53 PM): I can put this info on an AA Guild
intro page after
MoriFinwe (6:18:18 PM): and when you get on clan page it will tell you who
is online in the clan and what server they are playing
ArPharazonV (6:19:00 PM): brb, soup
VardaValar1 (6:19:08 PM): Do you have the Clan or Guild name already
registered?
MoriFinwe (6:19:28 PM): Yes i just did it
MoriFinwe (6:19:35 PM): It is under Valar Guild
VardaValar1 (6:20:03 PM): Thanks!
MoriFinwe (6:20:08 PM): The clan ID is 14501
MoriFinwe (6:20:33 PM): and the password to get in is the usual Diablo
Game Password
VardaValar1 (6:21:20 PM): Did you need a web page or other item to get us
registered?
MoriFinwe (6:22:01 PM): No I just typed in the www.valarguild.org web
address
MoriFinwe (6:22:30 PM): So if someone sees our clan they can go to our
website
VardaValar1 (6:22:31 PM): actually, you don't need the www
VardaValar1 (6:22:36 PM): It's a domain name
MoriFinwe (6:22:56 PM): I can fix that
ArPharazonV (6:23:16 PM): ok, back and uptodate
VardaValar1 (6:23:17 PM): Arathorn is considering doing a Front Page for
AA members, to help them find the appropriate info for new AA guys
ArathornValar (6:23:26 PM): hmm.. I registered and logged in, but I
go to a blank page .. :/
ArathornValar (6:23:57 PM): I think they might be updating
somethin on their site... seems buggy right now :/
MoriFinwe (6:23:59 PM): What did it say after you registered?
ArathornValar (6:24:18 PM): er.. nothing much
VardaValar1 (6:24:19 PM): Did they need a leader registered and what name
did you give?
MoriFinwe (6:24:46 PM): No i have the Clan management password though
if you would like it
ArathornValar (6:25:14 PM): I created a new account on the site
called arathorn.. then put in my general info and clicked
register... then came back to the main page :/
VardaValar1 (6:25:27 PM): Might want to pm that if you want me to have it
VardaValar1 (6:25:47 PM): I don't expect to use it unless you are run over
by a truck
ArathornValar (6:26:34 PM): Hmm.. I'll have to try again later...
theyr'e doing some kind of housekeeping I think
MoriFinwe (6:26:58 PM): Ya since the new version aaotracker is having a
hard time with aa as well
VardaValar1 (6:28:44 PM): While you are sweating that out...
VardaValar1 (6:28:53 PM): Diablo Ladder will be going down "soon"
VardaValar1 (6:28:58 PM): So our banks go with it
VardaValar1 (6:29:09 PM): It seems the Ladder will remain separate from
Regular
VardaValar1 (6:29:15 PM): Ladder 2 will be separate
VardaValar1 (6:29:21 PM): Tolkien mod is separate
VardaValar1 (6:29:26 PM): We are getting scattered
ArathornValar (6:29:27 PM): getting a password or id incorrect
error... oh well.. I'll fiddle with that later
ArPharazonV (6:29:29 PM): all ladder chars are being made regular, right?
VardaValar1 (6:29:35 PM): No Phar
VardaValar1 (6:29:40 PM): We thought they were
VardaValar1 (6:29:52 PM): But latest Bnet news sounds as if not going to go
regular
ArathornValar (6:29:54 PM): hmm.. I hadn't read that... seems silly
:/
VardaValar1 (6:29:57 PM): We might wait to see
VardaValar1 (6:30:14 PM): I think it's to keep from flooding nice cubed
runes into regular
ArPharazonV (6:30:16 PM): I know I read it somewhere today....
VardaValar1 (6:30:17 PM): I don't know
VardaValar1 (6:30:32 PM): We can wait to see what they really do
ArPharazonV (6:30:37 PM): oh, right, our MB...
VardaValar1 (6:30:44 PM): We will make new banks for Ladder 2 in any
case
VardaValar1 (6:30:59 PM): Will need helpers to keep banks alive in all these
sections
ArathornValar (6:31:06 PM): hmm.. well that's the whole point of
laddering.. to get good stuff to regular chars <heh>
VardaValar1 (6:31:07 PM): Gets to be too much for one person
VardaValar1 (6:31:18 PM): Right, Arathorn. Irritating
VardaValar1 (6:31:36 PM): We also had fun with a little competition, many
of which Arathorn is winning ; )
ArathornValar (6:32:21 PM): well, if that IS the case, I won;t be
laddering anymore <chuckle>
VardaValar1 (6:32:45 PM): We don't know for sure yet
VardaValar1 (6:32:55 PM): I will probably put a character in each section
VardaValar1 (6:33:07 PM): But if it is true, will go back to regular for main
gaming
ArathornValar (6:34:15 PM): I was only thinking of having ONE
char in any new ladder anyway... course that's how it always
starts! :-P
VardaValar1 (6:34:30 PM): hehe - too true
ArathornValar (6:35:14 PM): "ok, only one char... okok.. ONE mule...
OKOKOK!! 17 mules 37 chars... and a donkey..!.."
VardaValar1 (6:35:38 PM): Any other news?
VardaValar1 (6:35:49 PM): (Many pm's going)
VardaValar1 (6:36:15 PM): If not...
top

VardaValar1 (6:36:20 PM): Tolkien!
VardaValar1 (6:36:37 PM): Eonwe has a topic to start us off. Go ahead,
Eonwe!
Eonwe Valar (6:37:06 PM): ok
MoriFinwe (6:37:43 PM): i gtg Sry have some more work to do Namarie
Eonwe Valar (6:37:50 PM): still working on wording a bit, but I got it from a
friend of a couple of Guild members (don't remember the name right
now)
ArathornValar (6:37:58 PM): Namarie
VardaValar1 (6:38:22 PM): Namarie and thank you, Caranthir!
(6:38:28 PM) MoriFinwe has left the room.
Eonwe Valar (6:39:10 PM): Apparently, in the Lost Road (Vol 5 of History
of Middle-Earth) Elendil had another son, his oldest son, who was named
Herendil
ArPharazonV (6:40:15 PM): you know what, i'll go fetch that book right
now... brb
Eonwe Valar (6:40:28 PM): He seemed to have chosen to follow the King,
Ar-Pharazon, rather than his father.
VardaValar1 (6:40:45 PM): Another father son fall out mistake
ArPharazonV (6:41:05 PM): another follower! great! :-D
Eonwe Valar (6:41:36 PM): Why do you think Tolkien removed/did not
mention further this character, and what would the bearing have been on
the tale had he left Herendil in?
VardaValar1 (6:42:41 PM): He seemed to be shortening the tales to fit into
Sil for one : )
VardaValar1 (6:43:06 PM): Did it say why he followed Phar?
ArPharazonV (6:43:13 PM): I think it's a bit cliche... 1 good son, 1 bad...
kinda Melkor-Manwe (sorry, can't think of a better comparison for the
moment)
VardaValar1 (6:43:24 PM): Good thought, Phar
VardaValar1 (6:43:42 PM): Might have been to keep Aragorn's ancestors
good guys. As in no Feanor either
ArPharazonV (6:44:18 PM): Feanor? what had he to do with it?
VardaValar1 (6:44:42 PM): I'm talking about ancestors for Aragorn
ArPharazonV (6:44:55 PM): I don't remember him ancestoring (is that a
word?) Aragorn at any one point in previous versions...
VardaValar1 (6:44:59 PM): Feanor is baddie and therefore cut off from
bloodline
VardaValar1 (6:45:22 PM): That is what I mean. No Feanor in Aragorn's
background
VardaValar1 (6:45:35 PM): Might be same reason not to have this potential
ancestor
Eonwe Valar (6:45:43 PM): No Fëanor-like character
ArPharazonV (6:45:45 PM): but that seems to have been decided from the
start, while Herendil apparently was removed later
Lady Fallun (6:46:19 PM): maybe it's just a simple reason... he never got
around to writing Herendil's story
ArPharazonV (6:46:33 PM): although, of course, Aragorn never was an issue
in previous versions....
VardaValar1 (6:46:38 PM): Since much of BoLT original stuff was dropped,
he may have gone with it
Eonwe Valar (6:47:21 PM): actually, he dide write stuff about him because
we wouldn't have the name if he didn't :}
VardaValar1 (6:47:37 PM): He was the hobbit Trotter though ;-)
Lady Fallun (6:47:45 PM): that's not quite what I mean... but I can't think
how to explain it
Eonwe Valar (6:47:46 PM): Aragorn, aye
ArPharazonV (6:47:59 PM): well, yes, but if Herendil was mentioned in part
5 of the Histories
ArPharazonV (6:48:05 PM): was Aragorn even a concept back then?
Eonwe Valar (6:48:18 PM): Certainly though, he was removed early on, or
he would've been mentioned in LotR or in the Sil even breifly
ArPharazonV (6:49:10 PM): so, perhaps, indeed, Aragorn's appearance and
Herendil's removal seemed to be at the same time approximately?
Eonwe Valar (6:49:43 PM): well, that would be best found by looking at the
commentaries
VardaValar1 (6:51:32 PM): *hears pages flipping. Wishes had the book*
ArPharazonV (6:52:10 PM): I've got the book here, but it's so big... don't
know where to start, according to the index Herendil is referenced
throughout the book
ArPharazonV (6:52:25 PM): and the page references don't exactly match up,
so that's no good either
Eonwe Valar (6:52:34 PM): aye, that does make it hard
Eonwe Valar (6:52:38 PM): afk for a sec
ArPharazonV (6:53:20 PM): wait... it rings a bell...
VardaValar1 (6:53:24 PM): That is a problem with these indices. A lot of
references are completely left out too
Eonwe Valar (6:53:35 PM): back
VardaValar1 (6:53:46 PM): Aiyata : )
ArPharazonV (6:53:50 PM): I remember a son following Pharazon, in the lost
road... from back when I started with the book
ArPharazonV (6:54:07 PM): slowly all coming back...
VardaValar1 (6:54:25 PM): Lots and lots of info there : )
Eonwe Valar (6:54:29 PM): Unfortunately, I must go now
ArPharazonV (6:54:40 PM): ahhh, namarie then
Eonwe Valar (6:54:51 PM): Take care all and have fun.
VardaValar1 (6:54:55 PM): Namarie!
(6:55:06 PM) Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1 (6:56:12 PM): May I suggest going into After-meeting now?
top


After-Meeting: but Tolkien continues....
ArPharazonV (6:56:18 PM): I'm just reading a reference to a temple on the
mountain... it seems this is a version from the time where Sauron had his
temple on the Menel-Tarma
VardaValar1 (6:56:26 PM): Thanks, Phar
ArPharazonV (6:57:02 PM): I hate that version, makes Pharazon look even
more evil for allowing it ;-)
VardaValar1 (6:57:42 PM): ouch, Sauron was a sneaky guy
VardaValar1 (6:58:02 PM): He had to be a good persuader to have that
done
ArPharazonV (6:58:39 PM): indeed, how could I have been so foolish
VardaValar1 (6:59:02 PM): Sauron was a sly Maia and played on your fears
and hopes
VardaValar1 (6:59:14 PM): and on those around you to reinforce it
ArPharazonV (6:59:40 PM): and immortality is of course the hope for any
man with a certain amount of power
ArPharazonV (6:59:46 PM): heck, even I dream of it
ArPharazonV (7:00:13 PM): and what power do I have? None? No, I
thought so
VardaValar1 (7:01:02 PM): You have the power to choose
ArPharazonV (7:01:04 PM): btw, un a totally unrelated note: I've got 256 mb
ram extra since yesterday!
VardaValar1 (7:01:09 PM): Woot!
VardaValar1 (7:01:12 PM): Congrats1
ArPharazonV (7:01:15 PM): thnx
ArPharazonV (7:02:06 PM): now I'm at 512, and together with Fladrif we've
cleaned the pc of spyware and viruses, as well as installing firefox as my
primary browser instead of internet explorer
VardaValar1 (7:02:26 PM): Fladrif? Congrats : )
ArPharazonV (7:02:28 PM): which should be a lot better against viruses and
pop-ups as well
VardaValar1 (7:02:46 PM): yay
ArPharazonV (7:02:48 PM): so, now, Warcraft 3 is running a lot more
smoothly ;-)
VardaValar1 (7:03:06 PM): Excellent
ArPharazonV (7:03:58 PM): it feels like my entire pc is renewed: firefox,
faster games, and the setting back to the less-energy-eating old windows
style
ArPharazonV (7:04:15 PM): so my screen when not gaming looks a lot
different as well
ArPharazonV (7:04:46 PM): even AIM launches a lot faster
VardaValar1 (7:04:59 PM): nice : )
ArPharazonV (7:08:22 PM): it just changes the font-type in a weird way, so if
I want to print something akin to something I've already printed (like
Morrowind Quest-pages), I'll still have to start Explorer, or it comes out
in a not-fitting way
VardaValar1 (7:13:07 PM): You still there, Oropher?
VardaValar1 (7:13:23 PM): Been hard for us to play EQ after that last
update
VardaValar1 (7:13:35 PM): I'm going to try again : )
ArPharazonV (7:13:44 PM): oh, so the meeting's over then?
VardaValar1 (7:14:08 PM): declared after meeting a while ago, aye
VardaValar1 (7:14:19 PM): But was interested in what you found out in the
book
ArPharazonV (7:14:31 PM): yes, but you're leaving as well? leaving all but
me at afk?
ArPharazonV (7:15:04 PM): in the book? Oh, I should reopen it again, I
suppose....

VardaValar1 (7:15:49 PM): Nahh, you can go play if you like : )
ArPharazonV (7:16:00 PM): heheh
ArPharazonV (7:16:40 PM): Herendil... 'Edwin', according to the Etymologies
ArPharazonV (7:17:53 PM): yes, Herendil only appears in the text 'The Lost Road', and in the Etymologies
VardaValar1 (7:17:55 PM): You keep doing Tolkien stuff and I'll keep saving transcript : )

ArPharazonV (7:18:36 PM): I wonder why the Lost Road was stopped? If Tolkien actually forgot about it, would that mean Herendil completely slipped his mind as well?
VardaValar1 (7:18:49 PM): I doubt it "slipped his mind"
VardaValar1 (7:18:59 PM): Just no longer fit into his new story line
VardaValar1 (7:19:10 PM): It started running the wrong way
VardaValar1 (7:19:21 PM): For instance, the Valar no longer had children
VardaValar1 (7:19:28 PM): lot of things were different
ArPharazonV (7:19:36 PM): but Herendil was connected to the lost road alone, so for whatever reason he stopped that (don't remember), might be the reason he kicked out herendil

ArPharazonV (7:19:56 PM): *I don't remember, not that Tolkien didn't remember
VardaValar1 (7:19:59 PM): Aye, part of an abandoned story line
ArPharazonV (7:20:39 PM): so, we should analyse: why did he stop the lost road? could be anywhere in this book...
ArPharazonV (7:21:39 PM): 'All this was set aside during the period of the writing of [Lotr], but not abandoned;
ArPharazonV (7:22:30 PM): for in 1945, before indeed [Lotr] was completed, he returned to these themes in the unfinished Notion Club Papers.
VardaValar1 (7:22:35 PM): The story line started running the wrong direction, I'll have to dig it up again
ArPharazonV (7:23:13 PM): Such as he sketched out for these parts of The Lost Road remain, as it seems to me, among the most interesting and instructive of his unfinished works.'
ArPharazonV (7:23:59 PM): So, he laid it aside for Lotr, and I don't recall Herendil in the Notion Club Papers, though
VardaValar1 (7:24:29 PM): Poor Herendil
ArPharazonV (7:25:09 PM): so, regardless if he wanted to keep this specific character in the history, the abandonment of the Lost Road for later the Notion Club Papers, may have been the demise of this interesting person
ArPharazonV (7:25:54 PM): therefore, as I suggested, he may have done nothing more than 'slip Tolkien's mind' perhaps..
VardaValar1 (7:26:12 PM): could be
VardaValar1 (7:26:40 PM): He tended to try to keep all that prodigious amount of material in his head, didn't have our comp advantage, and could lose track
ArPharazonV (7:26:52 PM): and if Tolkien had picked up the Lost Road, on a whim to continue it, Herendil could have survived into the Silm
(7:27:06 PM) Lady Fallun has left the room.
(7:27:11 PM) Lady Fallun has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (7:27:29 PM): aiyata
Lady Fallun (7:27:56 PM): *sigh* I hate aol
ArPharazonV (7:28:05 PM): :-)
ArPharazonV (7:29:00 PM): what are your thoughts on Herendil, Lady Fallun?
VardaValar1 (7:32:52 PM): Lady Fallun is now Gilraen-V! Welcome to the Valar Guild!
ArPharazonV (7:33:02 PM): congrats!
ArPharazonV (7:33:35 PM): Finally passed the test? ;-)
Lady Fallun (7:33:49 PM): thank you :-) and what do you mean, finally? :-P
VardaValar1 (7:33:56 PM): That is what we were doing during the meeting
ArPharazonV (7:34:26 PM): well, I don't know how long you've been a guildfriend, expressing at certain points in time her wishes to become a member?
ArPharazonV (7:34:41 PM): *her, your.. whatever the perspective
VardaValar1 (7:35:05 PM): You bought the books recently, I think?
ArPharazonV (7:35:29 PM): so, as a joke, I suggested that after a lot of failings, she finally passed the test today.... but hey, that's just my humor, it seems
Lady Fallun (7:36:01 PM): it's ok... it did make me laugh... I just don't know what to type, lol
VardaValar1 (7:36:06 PM): She did fine : )
VardaValar1 (7:36:19 PM): Even had better spelling than many

VardaValar1 (7:36:55 PM): Few seem to spell Wormtongue right, for instance : )
ArPharazonV (7:37:16 PM): I did! I did! I remember that specifically from my own test! :-D
VardaValar1 (7:37:17 PM): Why people don't usually say Grima I could not guess
ArathornValar (7:37:22 PM): I can spell.. it's my typing that seems to lack accuracy <sigh> :-P
VardaValar1 (7:37:25 PM): Way to go, Phar!
Lady Fallun (7:37:27 PM): lol!
VardaValar1 (7:37:47 PM): You and Manwe, Arathorn :-) His problem was typing too fast though.
ArathornValar (7:38:06 PM): so is mine... quickly but not accurately
ArathornValar (7:38:20 PM): I've worn out 7 backspace keys
VardaValar1 (7:38:25 PM): Would you want to make a Gilraen or GilraenV extra screen name?
VardaValar1 (7:38:33 PM): lol Arathorn
ArPharazonV (7:38:34 PM): oh, if I were to resort to truly fast typing, not correcting any typo's along the way, you probably would not recognize a single sentence :-)
ArathornValar (7:38:59 PM): ack.. 8!... <pops out yet another and replaces...>
VardaValar1 (7:39:00 PM): Mine get a bit wild too. Bless the Backspace key!
Lady Fallun (7:39:21 PM): May as well. the screen name linking on the new aim version is so much easier with multiple screen names :-)
ArathornValar (7:39:25 PM): heh.. want a box of backspace keys Arhpy?
VardaValar1 (7:40:00 PM): Toss a box here!
ArPharazonV (7:40:12 PM): I've got a longer backspace keys than most keyboards (at least in my country), so perhaps it will hold out long enough
ArPharazonV (7:40:17 PM): but sure, if you got extra
ArPharazonV (7:40:22 PM): *key
ArathornValar (7:40:23 PM): <mails off several BSK crates...>
VardaValar1 (7:40:35 PM): Need some S, T, N, O, K, L, A.... ok, new keyboard might be an idea
VardaValar1 (7:40:46 PM): But we don't have to look at the letters, so no biggie
Lady Fallun (7:41:04 PM): my laptop keyboard needs replacing
ArathornValar (7:41:14 PM): I'm considering getting an external backspace "PEDAL" ... can just step and type!
ArPharazonV (7:41:20 PM): and I can't help but stare at another of Arathorn's typo's...
VardaValar1 (7:41:21 PM): rofl
ArPharazonV (7:41:26 PM): 'Arhpy'?
ArathornValar (7:41:30 PM): <snortle
ArathornValar (7:41:55 PM): er.. Arphy... missed that one :-P
ArPharazonV (7:42:04 PM): np ;-)
ArPharazonV (7:42:43 PM): a backspace pedal? I would strain my feet!
ArathornValar (7:43:21 PM): perhaps a BS device attached to the eyelids... just blinks the BS's <hehe>
ArPharazonV (7:44:12 PM): I had a sore wrist and finger today, after continuous clicking in morrowind (trying to train my pathetically low hand-to-hand skill, neither my nor my enemy could make a hit that wasn't nullified within the second)
ArPharazonV (7:45:26 PM): in the end I took out my axe, and finished him off... my skill improved from 10 to 25 out of 100 on a single enemy, that's very rare in that game
ArPharazonV (7:45:38 PM): my hand-to-hand skill, that was
ArathornValar (7:45:42 PM): Ok, Lady Fallun, email myself or Varda when you decide on a new AIM name and I'll add you to our AIM page... afk to grab a bite to eat
VardaValar1 (7:48:03 PM): preferably email us both. I also put it on the Activity page and News
VardaValar1 (7:48:13 PM): Morrowind quite popular at my house too
VardaValar1 (7:48:37 PM): Is there a way to play it online with others?
ArPharazonV (7:48:45 PM): no, it's single player only
VardaValar1 (7:48:55 PM): Looked that way. O well
VardaValar1 (7:49:00 PM): Still fun
ArPharazonV (7:49:12 PM): and that's good, because otherwise the unique artefacts and storyline would have been very strange and unbalancing
VardaValar1 (7:49:51 PM): Will you be making a new AIM name for us to be adding, Gilraen?
ArPharazonV (7:50:08 PM): Gilraen... trying to remember the name... mother of Aragorn?
ArPharazonV (7:48:51 PM): ah, yes, the encyc proves me right!
VardaValar1 (7:48:56 PM): Right, Phar
VardaValar1 (7:49:37 PM): She helped raise him until he was a young adult
VardaValar1 (7:50:04 PM): Putting new member on web pages while chatting

ArPharazonV (7:51:55 PM): In the later years, Arda was totally transformed, I believe
ArPharazonV (7:52:16 PM): with the moon being a part of Arda, broken off by Melkor as a secondary refuge
VardaValar1 (7:52:36 PM): Did Tilion hear about this?
ArPharazonV (7:52:58 PM): and the sun being a fiery orb inhabited by one of the Maia, Arien or something
VardaValar1 (7:53:08 PM): Arien, right : )
ArPharazonV (7:53:33 PM): and other such things, which completely changed the concept of the Silmarillion
(7:53:37 PM) Lady Fallun has left the room.
(7:53:42 PM) Lady Fallun has entered the room.
Lady Fallun (7:53:54 PM): *sigh*
ArPharazonV (7:53:58 PM): among other things, the story of the Eldar, people of the stars, would have to be revised
ArPharazonV (7:54:43 PM): so, Tolkien designed the tale to have them born in a time when smokeclouds from Utumno covered Middle-Earth
ArPharazonV (7:55:16 PM): and the first thing they saw, between the clouds, was the stars, and as such they never saw the sun until the Valar dispersed the clouds
ArPharazonV (7:55:27 PM): and bringing the Eldar to Valinor
ArPharazonV (7:55:56 PM): if this revised cosmology had pulled through, the Silm would have been different in many concepts
ArPharazonV (7:56:17 PM): and thus, although being more realistic, probably would have drawn less fantasy-fans to it
ArPharazonV (7:57:08 PM): I believe that's all readable in Histories 10 or 11
ArPharazonV (7:57:48 PM): also, in those books, the final myths for the awakening of the Elves and Men were composed, but they never made it into the Silm
ArPharazonV (7:58:50 PM): it was pretty cool, though, the first awakening of the Elves, starting with 144, and each of the 3 leaders choosing their people from among the Elves they encountered along the shores of the Waters
ArPharazonV (7:59:29 PM): and the first Fall of Men was described in it too
ArPharazonV (7:59:49 PM): if I ever get around to it, the stories definitely get a place in my war3 campaigns
(8:00:02 PM) Lady Fallun has left the room.
(8:00:07 PM) Lady Fallun has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (8:00:14 PM): aiyata :-)
VardaValar1 (8:00:31 PM): Welcome back
Lady Fallun (8:00:34 PM): aiya. silly aol *mutters*
Lady Fallun (8:00:40 PM): I feel like a yo-yo
VardaValar1 (8:00:57 PM): May you soon have a repaired PC and be away from the AOL : )
Lady Fallun (8:01:13 PM): thank you. I hope so
ArPharazonV (8:01:21 PM): a yo-yo... that comment almost made my laugh out loud....
ArPharazonV (8:02:44 PM): anyway, the story of the elven awakening was nice
ArPharazonV (8:03:00 PM): it seemed a bit on a childish level for a story in the silm, but it was still fun to read
(8:03:11 PM) Lady Fallun has left the room.
(8:03:22 PM) Lady Fallun has entered the room.

VardaValar1 (8:04:25 PM): Notes can sometimes be put simply, was not intended for a publisher
ArPharazonV (8:04:54 PM): yes, but just the entire concept, you know
ArPharazonV (8:05:34 PM): 3 elven leaders awakening next to each other, coming among mathematically perfect groups of other Elves
ArPharazonV (8:05:59 PM): and each one choosing their own people from it
ArPharazonV (8:06:10 PM): Ingwe was the first, so he was the first to choose
VardaValar1 (8:06:35 PM): Childish? More like computer : )
ArPharazonV (8:06:53 PM): but the further groups became larger and larger, so he delayed his right to choose, saying the other 2 leaders could take those groups for themselves, waiting for the largest group
ArPharazonV (8:07:58 PM): until no more groups were found, and the Vanyar got stuck being the smallest group of the 3 (14 out of 144), the third and most unimportant leader gaining by far the largest amount of followers
ArPharazonV (8:09:25 PM): and that same... darn, what's 'verhouding' in English.... survived throughout the growth of the Elven population
(8:09:49 PM) Orodreth V has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (8:10:04 PM): Aiya Orodreth!
Orodreth V (8:10:08 PM): Wee bit late, I'm afraid... but I'm here!
VardaValar1 (8:10:14 PM): Good to see you!
VardaValar1 (8:10:30 PM): You get to be among the first to know Lady Fallun is now Gilaen-V : )
ArPharazonV (8:10:42 PM): ah, got it... let's say... proportional relationship
Orodreth V (8:10:43 PM): Congradulations!
Lady Fallun (8:10:54 PM): thank you :-)
VardaValar1 (8:11:18 PM): Fangorn says he's hungry, so I need to go make supper
ArPharazonV (8:11:21 PM): so, that story was either a bit childish in my eyes, or biblically moralistic
Orodreth V (8:11:35 PM): Gonna take me a month for me to stop thinking of you as Lady Fallun though.. doobid memory.
VardaValar1 (8:11:43 PM): She is both : )
Lady Fallun (8:11:54 PM): hehe
Orodreth V (8:12:12 PM): I'll be back. Need to wake up.
ArPharazonV (8:12:13 PM): ah, come on... who now remembers me as 'Minotaur of Chaos'?
Orodreth V (8:12:20 PM): Me.
VardaValar1 (8:12:27 PM): I do
ArPharazonV (8:12:36 PM): really? did not expect that
VardaValar1 (8:12:39 PM): Much trivia in my head
VardaValar1 (8:12:49 PM): You reminded me, came back immediately
VardaValar1 (8:13:01 PM): I remember Sam-Valar as Om : )
ArPharazonV (8:14:27 PM): there's only one guildmember I knew under another name before joining the guild, and I introduced him here :-)
VardaValar1 (8:15:13 PM): That's why you would have known it
VardaValar1 (8:15:23 PM): Testers get to see lots of previous names
VardaValar1 (8:15:37 PM): Valar see the reports from all testers
VardaValar1 (8:15:43 PM): at least Council
Orodreth V (8:15:47 PM): Oddly enough, I have no idea what the old Amras' name was 9the one I recruited).
VardaValar1 (8:15:57 PM): Check Recruit page : )
ArPharazonV (8:16:08 PM): we have one of those?
Orodreth V (8:16:17 PM): Heh.
Orodreth V (8:16:25 PM): could..but that would require effort.
Orodreth V (8:16:37 PM): And I got up a grand total of 10 minutes ago.
ArPharazonV (8:16:50 PM): 'recruiting handbook'... no...
ArPharazonV (8:17:29 PM): oh, well, seems that's it anyway ;-)
Orodreth V (8:17:32 PM): Bleh. I wake up, check my e-mail, and guess what..work to be done.
VardaValar1 (8:17:46 PM): most recent Amras? try reload or refresh
Orodreth V (8:17:58 PM): In other world news, I'm reading LotR to my grandmother.
ArPharazonV (8:18:10 PM): Amras-V joined. From AIM as mirkwood hunter. Plays D1, BW, WC2. Found us through the Gaming page. Maine, USA. EST. AIM: mirkwood hunter
VardaValar1 (8:18:13 PM): o cool!
Orodreth V (8:18:18 PM): She loves it just from the prolouge (that's how far we got last night).
VardaValar1 (8:18:21 PM): I did that for my grandfather
VardaValar1 (8:18:30 PM): as mirkwood hunter
VardaValar1 (8:18:34 PM): that's the name I got
ArPharazonV (8:18:36 PM): yes, the prologue was great :-)
Orodreth V (8:18:39 PM): She goes "When was this published?"
VardaValar1 (8:18:40 PM): aye : )
Orodreth V (8:18:48 PM): I say, "1950ish"
Orodreth V (8:19:05 PM): She goes, "Well, I'm an idiot"
VardaValar1 (8:19:06 PM): Says on back of title page
ArPharazonV (8:19:35 PM): as I read Lotr before the Hobbit, the prologue was actually the first thing I ever read by Tolkien ;-)
Orodreth V (8:20:38 PM): Same.
ArPharazonV (8:20:59 PM): in fact, when I brought Lotr home from the library, somebody asked if I was going to read the hobbit as well, and the first thing that came into mind at the words 'the Hobbit' was a bird, a raven-ish animal
Orodreth V (8:21:29 PM): Actually, I'm using a copy on my computer..perfectly legal becasue I own LotR and the Hobbit, though. :-)
ArPharazonV (8:22:09 PM): I just wanna see a movie or cartoon completely following the books, on my pc, some day...
ArPharazonV (8:22:28 PM): that's my main reason for creating the Tales of Arda
ArPharazonV (8:23:02 PM): and that's why the Tales of Arda will probably be more cinematic than gameplay ;-)
VardaValar1 (8:23:41 PM): Is your web page up?
ArPharazonV (8:24:05 PM): my web page? no, not really much to show on it
VardaValar1 (8:24:25 PM): Let me have the URL for the guild index when you are ready
ArPharazonV (8:24:33 PM): I could scan a few chaotic mappings I made, but other than that....
VardaValar1 (8:24:34 PM): Any member page can go there
ArPharazonV (8:24:44 PM): we'll see, we'll see
VardaValar1 (8:24:50 PM): How about your first cartoon? : )
ArPharazonV (8:24:58 PM): well, yes, that would be nice
ArPharazonV (8:25:04 PM): if I could draw in any way
VardaValar1 (8:25:21 PM): Didn't you see Arathorn's stick pix? hilarious
Orodreth V (8:25:44 PM): I can't draw circles..even on MS paint.

Orodreth V (8:25:57 PM): So Ar, you have to be better then me..
VardaValar1 (8:26:01 PM): Get a glass and draw around it : )
ArPharazonV (8:26:03 PM): well, yes, but creating a cartoon loosely based on stick-figures, isn't really worth it
ArPharazonV (8:26:21 PM): perhaps I could create a comic ;-)
Orodreth V (8:26:45 PM): There's a difference?
VardaValar1 (8:26:58 PM): It was your idea, heh
ArPharazonV (8:27:04 PM): well, comics require less precise and intricate drawing, for one thing
VardaValar1 (8:27:07 PM): making the cartoonsl, that is
ArPharazonV (8:28:07 PM): for another thing, while movies and cartoons can't really exceed a certain limit before becoming unrealistic in creation, comics (especially webcomics) can basically last forever
ArPharazonV (8:28:48 PM): for examples of ever-lasting comics (or at least those lasting years and years) think '8-bit theatre' and 'Bob and George'
VardaValar1 (8:28:57 PM): Looking forward to your first comic, Phar : )
ArPharazonV (8:29:01 PM): heheh
ArPharazonV (8:29:33 PM): meh, I'll stick to War3
ArPharazonV (8:29:46 PM): easier to build, less artistic skills required
Orodreth V (8:30:26 PM): You can do 3D modeling? ;-)
Orodreth V (8:30:39 PM): Well, I'm off to go read LotR to my grandmother..
Orodreth V (8:30:56 PM): Drop me an e-mail if you want me, taking zee laptop downstairs..
ArPharazonV (8:31:02 PM): if necessary, I'll just use the war3 models :-)
(8:31:21 PM) Orodreth V has left the room.
ArPharazonV (8:32:13 PM): most people envision the hobbits as the villagers, but I think they resemble the peasants more
ArPharazonV (8:32:58 PM): especially with Merry and Pippin wearing their uniforms, the militia would be perfect
ArPharazonV (8:34:05 PM): in Ringwars, I think they've done a great job with the unit-for-character selecting, as fas as 'great' is possible
ArPharazonV (8:34:38 PM): you ever seen ringwars?
Lady Fallun (8:35:34 PM): nope
ArPharazonV (8:36:16 PM): I've played it a few times, never gotten a tiny bit good at it though
ArPharazonV (8:36:27 PM): I've also got a Silm version of it
ArPharazonV (8:36:38 PM): which I played only once ;-)
ArPharazonV (8:37:03 PM): in any case, the geography is really well done
ArPharazonV (8:37:07 PM): in both maps

VardaValar1 (8:40:01 PM): Good night all
ArPharazonV (8:40:07 PM): Oct. 4, 2003 Ar-Pharazon joined in Bnet on TFT. Was Minotaurofchaos@Azeroth. Tested by Eonwe, then Varda. Netherlands. Oh yeah, right on the anniversary
ArPharazonV (8:40:12 PM): good night
VardaValar1 (8:40:17 PM): :-)
(8:40:30 PM) VardaValar1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV (8:40:37 PM): I'm leaving too, think I'll be playing a dota or something
ArPharazonV (8:40:50 PM): Namarie all, and have fun in the guild, Gilraen :-)
Lady Fallun (8:41:04 PM): Namarie... and thank you :-)
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