Valar Guild

June 13, 2004 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST, (-5 GMT)

News page
Meeting Opens 
New: Khamul-V
How setting affected the characters' actions in LotR.
Gandalf's behavior changed between the Shire and Rivendell.
Council of Elrond in Bree instead?
Fangorn Forest
Plus quote of Treebeard wondering about nature of hobbits
Paths of the Dead - lots on Gimli, dwarves
Slight tangents including when dwarves start growing beards, female dwarves, love causing bravery

Members (17): Arathorn-V, Ar-Pharazon-V, Celebrimbor-V, Celegorm-V/MaritimeMan5,
Elwing-V, Eonwe-Valar, Fladrif-V, Gil-galad-V/Xseanzee disco, Gwaihir-Valar,
Mablung-V/DemonicHorde69, FarmerMaggot-V/musics4me2, Olwe-V/FallenGlory,
Orodreth-V, Oropher-V/MJKeenan123, Thorin-V/Thorin7623, Thorondor-Valar/ThorondorV,
Varda-Valar/VardaValar1 (presiding)
Visitor: Lady Fallun (guild-friend)
Before-meeting getting together:
(2:41:19 PM) You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
(4:23:21 PM) ArPharazonV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (4:23:44 PM): well, although it's a long shot... Aiya, Mikenowo!
(4:44:23 PM) Orodreth V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (4:44:34 PM): aiya, see you soon
(4:47:44 PM) Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
(4:47:47 PM) VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (4:47:56 PM): Aiya : )
Eonwe Valar (4:48:00 PM): hey :}
(4:48:01 PM) DemonicHorde69 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (4:48:03 PM): I was already here, Eonwe ;-)
ArPharazonV (4:48:07 PM): Aiya all 3
VardaValar1 (4:48:16 PM): Aiya Mablung
Eonwe Valar (4:48:25 PM): I just entered the channle to get myself in, leaving
everyone on the list just in case :}
DemonicHorde69 (4:48:31 PM): aiya all
ArPharazonV (4:48:40 PM): I can only stay until 6 pm est
DemonicHorde69 (4:48:47 PM): i have work in 20 mins
DemonicHorde69 (4:48:51 PM): but ill read the log when i get home
Eonwe Valar (4:49:09 PM): drive safely Mablung :}
VardaValar1 (4:49:17 PM): Good thinking
ArPharazonV (4:49:23 PM): indeed
DemonicHorde69 (4:49:31 PM): i just got y liscence awhile ago
VardaValar1 (4:49:34 PM): Raining cats and dogs and turtles here, so you'll know
what happened if I disappear
DemonicHorde69 (4:49:36 PM): but considering im driving a 4 door tahoe i should
be okay
ArPharazonV (4:49:38 PM): but unfortunately, I have to get up very very early
VardaValar1 (4:49:55 PM): Maybe we should try to make it a quick meeting :-)
Eonwe Valar (4:50:03 PM): Wish it would rain turtles here :}
(4:50:07 PM) GwaihirValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (4:50:10 PM): and frogs....
VardaValar1 (4:50:15 PM): Aiya Gwaihir
GwaihirValar (4:50:16 PM): frogs? where frogs? :-)
ArPharazonV (4:50:19 PM): aiya
GwaihirValar (4:50:24 PM): hey everyone :-)
ArPharazonV (4:50:33 PM): the 8th plague of Egypt?
ArPharazonV (4:50:47 PM): cats, dogs, turtles and frogs all at once?
VardaValar1 (4:50:55 PM): and buckets!
DemonicHorde69 (4:50:56 PM): alrightg time to go
DemonicHorde69 (4:51:01 PM): everyone wish me luck!
DemonicHorde69 (4:51:01 PM): woo
VardaValar1 (4:51:03 PM): Namarie for now
GwaihirValar (4:51:04 PM): if it weren't for the cats... that wouldn't be a
plague :-)
ArPharazonV (4:51:05 PM): namarie
GwaihirValar (4:51:06 PM): cya!
Eonwe Valar (4:51:13 PM): I don't see too much reptile or amphibian life where I
live,.. mostly possums, sometimes an armadillo, snakes, and the occasional
VardaValar1 (4:51:14 PM): Cats keep the rest of them down
Eonwe Valar (4:51:57 PM): It a shame since I used to live where I couldn't take
a step without a toad jumping out of the way :}
(4:52:11 PM) FladrifV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (4:52:15 PM): aiya Flad
Eonwe Valar (4:52:20 PM): heya Fladrif :}
GwaihirValar (4:52:22 PM): Celebrimbor, I think it was, won't be making it here
due to a family emergiency...
FladrifV (4:52:24 PM): Aiya
VardaValar1 (4:52:24 PM): Aiya :-)
(4:52:34 PM) Thorin 7623 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (4:52:37 PM): aiya
VardaValar1 (4:52:37 PM): Thanks for letting us know
VardaValar1 (4:52:40 PM): Aiya Thorin
Thorin 7623 (4:52:51 PM): aiya everyone
(4:53:46 PM) MaritimeMan5 has entered the room.
(4:53:47 PM) FallenGlory has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (4:53:51 PM): Aiya!
FallenGlory (4:53:52 PM): Hey
MaritimeMan5 (4:53:58 PM): oh... hey
(4:53:59 PM) Lady Fallun has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (4:53:59 PM): That's all the folk I can see online
ArPharazonV (4:53:59 PM): aiya
ArPharazonV (4:54:01 PM): aiya
VardaValar1 (4:54:03 PM): Aiya
MaritimeMan5 (4:54:07 PM): want me to get my guild sn?
Lady Fallun (4:54:14 PM): Aiya. Thanks Varda :-)
GwaihirValar (4:54:15 PM): heyla everyone :-)
VardaValar1 (4:54:16 PM): That would be nice
MaritimeMan5 (4:54:26 PM): oops :-\
(4:54:27 PM) MaritimeMan5 has left the room.
ArPharazonV (4:54:39 PM): who exactly is he?
VardaValar1 (4:54:40 PM): You folks can feel free to invite yourselves to the
GwaihirValar (4:54:55 PM): that's who he is :-)
ArPharazonV (4:55:08 PM): hm?
GwaihirValar (4:55:14 PM): he just got back online... :-)
(4:55:39 PM) CelegormV has entered the room.
(4:55:41 PM) Elwing V has entered the room.
CelegormV (4:55:44 PM): aiya all
ArPharazonV (4:55:46 PM): Aiya both
FallenGlory (4:55:47 PM): sorry, kinda busy at the moment, jogging between TV
and computer
VardaValar1 (4:55:47 PM): Aiya!
FallenGlory (4:55:49 PM): election stuff :-D
GwaihirValar (4:55:51 PM): Heyla! :-)
ArPharazonV (4:55:53 PM): btw, Orodreth is afk
VardaValar1 (4:55:54 PM): Eowyn says hi!
GwaihirValar (4:56:01 PM): election? eww.... hehe
ArPharazonV (4:56:04 PM): he's in a game on bnet
GwaihirValar (4:56:06 PM): heyla Eowyn!
ArPharazonV (4:56:12 PM): will be here as soon as possible
FladrifV (4:56:15 PM): I won't respond very often tonight I'm also learning for
an test I have tomorrow.
ArPharazonV (4:56:19 PM): well, I guess afk isn't the right word...
GwaihirValar (4:56:25 PM): Orodreth is on bnet?
ArPharazonV (4:56:29 PM): yes
GwaihirValar (4:56:34 PM): you sure?
VardaValar1 (4:56:34 PM): What's the test over?
Elwing V (4:56:37 PM): Aiya! My first chat entry from home (whew)
ArPharazonV (4:56:46 PM): Orodreth V (22:44:18): Ar, I'm on ina game,
could you tell Varda I'll be in the meeting asap?Orodreth V (22:44:28): When it
starts, I mean.
FladrifV (4:56:48 PM): mechanical stress :-)
VardaValar1 (4:56:50 PM): Congrats! It's a delight to see you here
CelegormV (4:56:51 PM): sorry i have'nt been to the mmetings in a long tim guys,
my comp is killing me
(4:56:52 PM) ThorondorV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (4:56:54 PM): aiya
ThorondorV (4:56:58 PM): Hello
VardaValar1 (4:57:04 PM): Aiya Thorondor
VardaValar1 (4:57:08 PM): About time to start
(4:57:09 PM) ArathornValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (4:57:16 PM): anyway, he said he'd join the channel, and continue
playing afterwards
VardaValar1 (4:57:17 PM): about 2 minutes, by my timer
GwaihirValar (4:57:18 PM): odd... he's not online according to the clan
ArPharazonV (4:57:24 PM): how strange
ArPharazonV (4:57:33 PM): well, it might not be tft
GwaihirValar (4:58:05 PM): true....
GwaihirValar (4:58:22 PM): Orodreth play any other realms you know of?
ArPharazonV (4:58:29 PM): no idea
ArPharazonV (4:58:43 PM): btw, the clan listing isn't always uptodate
VardaValar1 (4:58:47 PM): Maybe his flag expired
ArPharazonV (4:59:12 PM): you should check using 'whois'
VardaValar1 (4:59:19 PM): aye
Thorin 7623 (4:59:29 PM): aiya arathorn didnt see you come in
ArathornValar (4:59:45 PM): Aiya... bouncing around..
ThorondorV (4:59:45 PM): Well like I said before about the early mornings.. I'm
, or was just visiting this time.. time to sleep really. :/
ArPharazonV (4:59:55 PM): mara lome
(4:59:59 PM) Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1 (5:00:04 PM): May Irmo send sweet dreams
VardaValar1 (5:00:07 PM): Must type faster : )
ThorondorV (5:00:22 PM): Thanks, good night to you all too :-)
GwaihirValar (5:00:27 PM): farewell :-)
(5:00:33 PM) ThorondorV has left the room.
VardaValar1 (5:01:09 PM): Time by my clock

VardaValar1 (5:01:23 PM): Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

VardaValar1 (5:01:28 PM): Membership news:
VardaValar1 (5:01:40 PM): We have a new member, Khamul-V
VardaValar1 (5:01:59 PM): Celebrimbor has a family emergency and cannot be with
us tonight
VardaValar1 (5:02:16 PM): We do prefer that you take care of rl family and
friends first :-)
VardaValar1 (5:02:24 PM): Any other member news?

VardaValar1 (5:02:40 PM): Web News:
VardaValar1 (5:02:52 PM): I need help this meeting saving the transcript
VardaValar1 (5:02:57 PM): Weather may bump me off
Elwing V (5:03:17 PM): Stormy there?
VardaValar1 (5:03:22 PM): Very!
ArPharazonV (5:03:29 PM): well, arathorn, your mikenowo account is stable?
VardaValar1 (5:03:31 PM): The floor bounces from thunder
Elwing V (5:03:50 PM): Sunny here (we aren't that far from each other :-)
VardaValar1 (5:03:51 PM): You're not terribly far from us Elwing. No storm
VardaValar1 (5:03:56 PM): heh
ArathornValar (5:03:58 PM): depends... I had two pc crashes this week :/
CelegormV (5:04:09 PM): it's sunny here
ArPharazonV (5:04:16 PM): cause it's likely I'll miss a significant part, having
to leave early
VardaValar1 (5:04:19 PM): Booting better now, Arathorn?
ArPharazonV (5:04:28 PM): part 1 of my summer vacation is over
ArathornValar (5:04:33 PM): yeah... lost my Linux again tho <sigh>
(5:04:40 PM) Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (5:04:46 PM): ouch
ArPharazonV (5:04:47 PM): aiyata, eonwe
VardaValar1 (5:04:50 PM): Aiyata
VardaValar1 (5:04:59 PM): Links page:
Eonwe Valar (5:05:18 PM): Hantal
VardaValar1 (5:05:21 PM): The Links page What's New is now being done only on
the regular News page
VardaValar1 (5:05:34 PM): It took too much room at the top, hurt functionality
VardaValar1 (5:06:01 PM): The Tolkien Languages page now has a link to the Links
Languages section
VardaValar1 (5:06:16 PM): That should answer about 5 emails I've had this week :
VardaValar1 (5:06:28 PM): Elwing sent in a batch of good language links
VardaValar1 (5:06:49 PM): The E.L.F. website, for which we only had the forum
VardaValar1 (5:06:58 PM): Elvish Linguistic Fellowship
VardaValar1 (5:07:05 PM): Also, Langmaker
VardaValar1 (5:07:09 PM): Learn Elvish
Elwing V (5:07:13 PM): I really am good - I don't rememer that
VardaValar1 (5:07:18 PM): and the ever-important
VardaValar1 (5:07:26 PM): Klingon Language Institute
ArPharazonV (5:07:41 PM): Klingon? that still popular?
VardaValar1 (5:07:42 PM): Week old news, Elwing ;-)
VardaValar1 (5:07:48 PM): You bet it is : )
VardaValar1 (5:08:02 PM): Under Languages,
Elwing V (5:08:07 PM): Oh now I do (I was thinking "sent by email")
VardaValar1 (5:08:15 PM): Thranduil's name has been corrected to Elrond-V
VardaValar1 (5:08:26 PM): The reference was so old that it was before his name
VardaValar1 (5:08:40 PM): A researcher made a request to the guild for
Elwing V (5:08:49 PM): Varda and I are close enough for Personally Delivered
Mail :-) now and then
VardaValar1 (5:08:52 PM): a good article on the Palantiri
VardaValar1 (5:08:56 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (5:09:14 PM): Surprise, it actually was entered on the Links : )
VardaValar1 (5:09:29 PM): Any other Web News, o fellow web weavers?
VardaValar1 (5:09:55 PM): Eonwe?

VardaValar1 (5:10:32 PM): Gaming News:
VardaValar1 (5:10:46 PM): We need people to send in updates for the D2X Ladder
ArPharazonV (5:10:46 PM): web news
ArPharazonV (5:10:51 PM): mb
VardaValar1 (5:10:51 PM): Phar, go ahead
Thorin 7623 (5:10:59 PM): i timed all the ladder accounts on d2x up last week if
there are ne new accounts added please let me know
ArPharazonV (5:11:04 PM): Turgon was planning to make a new section, I believe
ArathornValar (5:11:23 PM): ahh,,, good reminder... I have several new ladder
updates.. forgot <heh>
ArPharazonV (5:11:26 PM): we spent yesterday night (for us) scouring the message
board for links
VardaValar1 (5:11:32 PM): Thanks Thorin! It would be on the info on the Bank
VardaValar1 (5:11:51 PM): Has Turgon actually made the section?
ArPharazonV (5:12:19 PM): I don't know how far he is at the building of the new
section, I still have to send him the links I found in the sections appointed to
ArPharazonV (5:12:23 PM): but he's been away all day
VardaValar1 (5:12:35 PM): Send away : )
ArathornValar (5:12:38 PM): what's the new section for?
VardaValar1 (5:12:41 PM): Links
ArPharazonV (5:12:45 PM): links, yes
ArathornValar (5:12:51 PM): er.. links to...?
ArPharazonV (5:13:12 PM): every single link posted in the message board not
leading to another thread in the same message board
VardaValar1 (5:13:31 PM): Then I can update our web page with Links from that
ArPharazonV (5:13:33 PM): so, basically, almost everything
ArathornValar (5:14:06 PM): ahh.. ok.. thought we were still talkign D2x ladder
ArPharazonV (5:14:11 PM): and speaking of the message board, I finally made my
100th post!
VardaValar1 (5:14:24 PM): The web page for Links has an awful lot already, so I
have to be careful not to do the same ones twice
ArPharazonV (5:14:28 PM): who would have thought the day would come where
Pharazon became eressean
Elwing V (5:14:36 PM): Woohoo *confetti flies*
VardaValar1 (5:14:37 PM): Congrats, Phar! And it was on the rp too : )
ArPharazonV (5:14:40 PM): indeed
ArathornValar (5:14:53 PM): <hands a cigar over..>
ArPharazonV (5:14:58 PM): thnx
VardaValar1 (5:14:59 PM): Pipeweed
VardaValar1 (5:15:06 PM): Any other Gaming News?
ArPharazonV (5:15:08 PM): ah... beautiful smokerings...
ArathornValar (5:15:21 PM): <chocolate cigar... don't light ! ..>
ArPharazonV (5:15:33 PM): well, I've made a start at my campaign
VardaValar1 (5:15:44 PM): We play all online games. I'm sure you folks have been
gaming at something!
ArPharazonV (5:15:47 PM): the war3 campaign about Tolkien's Lore
VardaValar1 (5:15:58 PM): Are you looking for helpers?
Thorin 7623 (5:16:21 PM): i play d2 x but have had very little time this week
for gaming
ArPharazonV (5:16:22 PM): well, I don't really need helpers at this point, the
day I'll be opening the editor for it is still far away
VardaValar1 (5:16:36 PM): Good luck to you!
ArPharazonV (5:16:45 PM): still drawing maps and writing down scenarios, and
also designing heroes
ArPharazonV (5:16:57 PM): I've got something I want your opinion to
VardaValar1 (5:16:59 PM): Anyone interested in handling that Palantiri article?
VardaValar1 (5:17:02 PM): Fire, Phar
ArPharazonV (5:17:13 PM): well, the abilities for little old Bilbo in the hobbit
ArPharazonV (5:17:46 PM): the ultimate I have now is actually very funny, in
it's own way
ArPharazonV (5:18:10 PM): being the silly hobbit, he would do something stupid
ArPharazonV (5:18:25 PM): which would annoy his friends into going berzerk
against the enemies
ArPharazonV (5:18:39 PM): and make the enemies roll over from laughing
ArPharazonV (5:18:55 PM): therefore, result, great increases and decreases in
attack speed
(5:19:03 PM) CelegormV has left the room.
ArPharazonV (5:19:03 PM): or damage
Thorin 7623 (5:19:22 PM): are you talking about bilbo?
ArPharazonV (5:19:26 PM): just a first draft, thought of it in a few minutes
ArPharazonV (5:19:33 PM): yes, bilbo, in the hobbit
ArPharazonV (5:19:51 PM): the normal abilities are:
Thorin 7623 (5:19:56 PM): i always thought he was more grounded than that
ArPharazonV (5:19:59 PM): -evasion, much like the original ability
Thorin 7623 (5:20:30 PM): size adds to that
VardaValar1 (5:20:32 PM): He didn't seem stupid to me, but I guess you could
work it that way for your game
ArPharazonV (5:20:36 PM): -ringwalk, allowing invisibility for a certain time
ArPharazonV (5:20:50 PM): of course, after he gains the ring from gollum
Thorin 7623 (5:20:54 PM): ok i can see that
ArPharazonV (5:21:01 PM): and here's the greatest beauty:
ArPharazonV (5:21:04 PM): burglary
ArPharazonV (5:21:14 PM): he starts with this ability, at level 1
VardaValar1 (5:21:31 PM): Gandalf did bill him as a burglar, something Bilbo
tried to live down, so that works too
Elwing V (5:21:39 PM): But he would call it "borrowing" :-)
Thorin 7623 (5:21:45 PM): yes that is true
VardaValar1 (5:21:47 PM): aye : )
ArPharazonV (5:21:51 PM): allowing him to open doors, an ability which would be
important to the first level
ArPharazonV (5:22:05 PM): in which he has to open doors many times for the
dwarven visitors
ArPharazonV (5:22:26 PM): the second level, what was that... hold on, I'll get
my notes
VardaValar1 (5:22:53 PM): While he's doing that, we need Tolkien topics. We have
one so far.
ArPharazonV (5:23:12 PM): oh, right... here we go
ArPharazonV (5:23:17 PM): level 2:
ArPharazonV (5:23:43 PM): instead of an instant ability, it would become a
certain 'mode', with minimal cooldown
Thorin 7623 (5:23:57 PM): now i will have to reread the hobbit in order to see
if i am wrong about the the way i evaluated his personality
VardaValar1 (5:24:06 PM): You are still working on all this. What did you nedd
an opinion from us on?
ArPharazonV (5:24:19 PM): for a certain period of time, in which he would gain a
speed upgrade, and would open any doors he touched
ArPharazonV (5:25:21 PM): level 3: same as level 2, but with less mana, greater
period of time, and after that period the mode would drain mana until
deactivated, unless he's using ringwalk at the same time
ArPharazonV (5:25:57 PM): well, actually, I wanted your opinions on these
abilities, seeing if they were appropriate, or if any of you have better ideas
VardaValar1 (5:26:08 PM): WC3 folk, any thoughts?
Thorin 7623 (5:26:14 PM): are you using d and d 3 rd edition rules for this
Thorin 7623 (5:26:26 PM): o never mind
ArPharazonV (5:26:35 PM): yes, it's for wc3 :-)
Thorin 7623 (5:26:57 PM): sounds fun
(5:27:03 PM) MJKeenan123 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (5:27:03 PM): the map making needs more accuracy, still going after
'journeys of frodo'...
VardaValar1 (5:27:09 PM): Aiya Oropher : )
ArPharazonV (5:27:16 PM): but eventually, it would become a series of campaign
MJKeenan123 (5:27:17 PM): hello
ArPharazonV (5:27:20 PM): *-s
ArPharazonV (5:27:23 PM): aiya
ArPharazonV (5:28:03 PM): using many many stories about Arda, including the full
Hobbit, Lotr, Silmarillion, and appendix A stories
ArPharazonV (5:28:24 PM): also, it would contain the stories of Unfinished
Tales, and some things from the Histories
Thorin 7623 (5:28:32 PM): as much as i hate to leave good company im afraid i
have to run
VardaValar1 (5:28:39 PM): Namarie Thorin!
Thorin 7623 (5:28:44 PM): namarie all and good fortune
ArPharazonV (5:28:46 PM): like the wanderings of Hurin... namarie Thorin...
(5:28:57 PM) Thorin 7623 has left the room.
ArPharazonV (5:28:57 PM): and the creation myths of the Elves and Men
VardaValar1 (5:29:01 PM): Be sure to let us know when you have the first
campaign up
ArPharazonV (5:29:07 PM): I sure will
VardaValar1 (5:29:19 PM): Sounds very ambitious. Good luck with it
ArPharazonV (5:29:20 PM): for that, I will certainly request your help
ArPharazonV (5:29:35 PM): as I'm planning on making custom units etc
VardaValar1 (5:29:41 PM): Any other news, suggestions?
ArPharazonV (5:29:45 PM): and perhaps, even... voices

VardaValar1 (5:30:25 PM): On to Tolkien!
ArPharazonV (5:30:32 PM): ok, go tolkien
VardaValar1 (5:31:02 PM): Setting is very special in JRRT's writings, including
time, place, who is present
VardaValar1 (5:31:19 PM): Some people say it is like another character, or even
an ensemble
VardaValar1 (5:32:09 PM): Does this seem true to you? Can you think of a way
setting changed how the characters acted in LotR?
VardaValar1 (5:32:21 PM): (Anyone may jump in here)
ArPharazonV (5:33:13 PM): well, Gandalf sure acted differently between the Shire
and Rivendell
ArPharazonV (5:33:22 PM): got more polite, I think, and serious
VardaValar1 (5:33:27 PM): So if the Fellowship had left from Bree, it might have
been different
VardaValar1 (5:33:30 PM): Aye, true
ArPharazonV (5:33:40 PM): that sort of thing you're looking for?
Elwing V (5:33:44 PM): Well, of course, Council of Elrond brought various
factions that would probably otherwise not been together
VardaValar1 (5:34:03 PM): Yes, that's one, Phar. True, Elwing
VardaValar1 (5:34:43 PM): Suppose the Fellowship had all met at Bree. That would
have been a very different setting
VardaValar1 (5:35:15 PM): Different settings can radically change the story
ArPharazonV (5:35:20 PM): it would have been a far more secret gathering, I
VardaValar1 (5:35:32 PM): Aye, Elves cloaked and hooded
VardaValar1 (5:36:28 PM): Events would have changed. Frodo would not have
reached Weathertop
GwaihirValar (5:36:31 PM): honestly... every scene was largely effected by the
VardaValar1 (5:36:42 PM): Right!
ArPharazonV (5:37:11 PM): without Frodo wounded and all, they would have gotten
to Moria way sooner
VardaValar1 (5:37:27 PM): A very strong sense of place and time
Eonwe Valar (5:37:29 PM): not necessarily
VardaValar1 (5:37:41 PM): The Nazgul could have had a lot more targets
Eonwe Valar (5:37:45 PM): well, maybe, nm :}
ArPharazonV (5:37:57 PM): well, if they skipped Weathertop and Rivendell, and
headed straight for moria...
GwaihirValar (5:38:06 PM): because, like any well-written story, the characters
act AROUND the scenery... they converse with theo ther characters... they react
to the fauna and flora... they treat circumstances differently based on time and
VardaValar1 (5:38:14 PM): Why would they go straight to Moria?
ArPharazonV (5:38:21 PM): why not?
GwaihirValar (5:38:28 PM): they would've gone straight to Caradhras
ArPharazonV (5:38:40 PM): well, Caradhras, yes
ArPharazonV (5:38:43 PM): and after that, Moria
GwaihirValar (5:38:49 PM): assuming Caradhras reacted against them
GwaihirValar (5:38:58 PM): it wouldn't have been as cold of a time...
GwaihirValar (5:39:01 PM): so it may not have happened
ArPharazonV (5:39:13 PM): well, in that case they would have skipped moria
ArPharazonV (5:39:21 PM): gandalf would have stayed alive
GwaihirValar (5:39:26 PM): it was January... ie. Winter or very close... when
they had the problems happen on Caradhras
ArPharazonV (5:39:42 PM): and perhaps his presence and the earlier time would
have saved Boromir
ArPharazonV (5:39:45 PM): and the hobbits
GwaihirValar (5:40:11 PM): but the quest would've gone Awry because Frodo
wouldn't have gotten away on his own and everyone else wouldn't have been split
up like they were
ArPharazonV (5:40:26 PM): therefore, the fellowship would not even have split
up... well, except for Frodo and Sam, who might have gone away anyway
ArPharazonV (5:40:36 PM): with, in this case, Gandalf's permission
ArPharazonV (5:40:59 PM): but, the other 7 would probably have headed on towards
ArPharazonV (5:41:11 PM): therefore, the end of Rohan
GwaihirValar (5:41:28 PM): but would Gandalf have let Frodo and Sam go off
ArPharazonV (5:41:28 PM): or not... it was certainly earlier in time
ArPharazonV (5:41:46 PM): I think he was wise enough to know it was best
VardaValar1 (5:41:55 PM): Gandalf might have seen the need for Frodo and Sam to
go alone
GwaihirValar (5:42:03 PM): might... but perhaps not...
(5:42:05 PM) Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (5:42:08 PM): and, I think we were here before
GwaihirValar (5:42:10 PM): perhaps he would've tried to split it a different way
VardaValar1 (5:42:10 PM): Aiya Gil-galad
ArPharazonV (5:42:12 PM): a few meetings ago
Xseanzee disco (5:42:13 PM): hello!
ArPharazonV (5:42:16 PM): aiya
VardaValar1 (5:42:23 PM): We have different people this time though
ArPharazonV (5:42:28 PM): ic
GwaihirValar (5:42:41 PM): why dya think the Bombadil debate has come up so many
VardaValar1 (5:42:46 PM): The topic is how the characters' behavior was changed
by setting
GwaihirValar (5:42:49 PM): it's a different debate each time because of the
people in attendance ;-)
VardaValar1 (5:42:56 PM): Right, Gwaihir : )
VardaValar1 (5:43:09 PM): and Balrog wings, hehe
GwaihirValar (5:43:12 PM): hehe
ArPharazonV (5:43:39 PM): I don't think I've even witnesses a Balrog wing
discussion here
ArPharazonV (5:43:43 PM): *witnessed
VardaValar1 (5:43:46 PM): Youngster : )
GwaihirValar (5:43:50 PM): I've seen one or two...
GwaihirValar (5:43:52 PM): not many though
ArPharazonV (5:43:58 PM): I've certainly seen a few Bombadils
GwaihirValar (5:44:01 PM): it's one most people don't like bringing up :-)
Elwing V (5:44:05 PM): Balrogs!?
VardaValar1 (5:44:08 PM): Beaten to death
ArPharazonV (5:44:24 PM): ok, next meeting, let's start one...
GwaihirValar (5:44:37 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (5:44:43 PM): When the chair calls for topics, you can bring it up :
ArPharazonV (5:44:57 PM): I would say he has, but, like the Pinguin and Ostrich,
he could not use them
VardaValar1 (5:45:05 PM): So if the orcs carried Merry and Pippin through
ArPharazonV (5:45:23 PM): ok, back to the first topic...
GwaihirValar (5:45:27 PM): the problem with the Balrog's wings debate is that
it's all 100% interpretation... the passages pertaining to it are all very very
into the grey areas :-)
VardaValar1 (5:45:34 PM): Aye, Gwaihir
ArPharazonV (5:45:40 PM): I don't think they would have taken them from the
fellowship anyway
ArPharazonV (5:45:46 PM): with Gandalf there and all
ArPharazonV (5:46:06 PM): he's a Maia, for god's sake
VardaValar1 (5:46:15 PM): If the Council was held at Rivendell as before, and
only the chase changes
VardaValar1 (5:46:28 PM): Setting is a very big deal in each part
VardaValar1 (5:46:45 PM): The trees would probably have taken out the Orcs
GwaihirValar (5:46:59 PM): assuming the Orcs were ready
VardaValar1 (5:47:05 PM): Would they have considered the hobbits little orcs,
and would they have been killed or not?
ArPharazonV (5:47:14 PM): what, like in the movie?
ArPharazonV (5:47:25 PM): when Treebeard thought they were orcs?
VardaValar1 (5:47:39 PM): In the book, Treebeard thought they were little orcs
ArPharazonV (5:47:43 PM): really?
VardaValar1 (5:47:53 PM): Go read it : )
GwaihirValar (5:47:56 PM): more than that he was just cofnused as to what they
VardaValar1 (5:48:03 PM): Aye, Eagle
ArPharazonV (5:48:11 PM): ah well, I'll get to that eventually, I suppose....
rereading for the campaigns, after all
VardaValar1 (5:48:14 PM): Where to fit them in the lists, hoom hom
GwaihirValar (5:48:15 PM): little Orcs was his first guess, but he looked again
and then was just really thrown off by their appearance
Elwing V (5:48:23 PM): He seemed not too worried about them, but the "wild
trees" didnt' seem to make any distinction - they were just ready to get rid of
GwaihirValar (5:48:24 PM): and just had no idea...
VardaValar1 (5:48:38 PM): He had to make up a new verse, with hobbit help, to
identify them
VardaValar1 (5:49:07 PM): Gandalf even told Legolas to keep out of the huorns by
Helm's Deep, probably right on that
VardaValar1 (5:49:22 PM): If they would take out an elf, they'd take out anyone
Xseanzee disco (5:49:54 PM): since we are talking about settings affecting
characters... i think it is prudent to add the Paths of the Dead as a major
"affecting" setting.
VardaValar1 (5:50:10 PM): Amazing, just thinking how to bring that up : )
GwaihirValar (5:50:12 PM): correction... it wasn't the appearance that threw him
GwaihirValar (5:50:18 PM): it was their VOICES that threw him off
VardaValar1 (5:50:26 PM): didn't sound like orcs : )
ArPharazonV (5:50:29 PM): oh wait... just thought of a new beaten-to-death
VardaValar1 (5:50:41 PM): And we should wait for that? ;-)
ArPharazonV (5:50:42 PM): exactly from what do Orcs originate?
ArPharazonV (5:50:56 PM): ah well, let's save it for another meeting
VardaValar1 (5:51:01 PM): Thanks
VardaValar1 (5:51:16 PM): Jot it down, Phar : )
ArPharazonV (5:51:23 PM): :-)
VardaValar1 (5:51:37 PM): Paths of the Dead was up next
VardaValar1 (5:51:48 PM): A very strong setting
GwaihirValar (5:51:48 PM): "But if I had seen you, before I heard your voices- I
liked them: nice little voices; they remionded me of something I cannot remember
- if I had seen you before I heard you,
GwaihirValar (5:52:24 PM): I should have just trodden on you, taking you for
littleOrcs, and found out my mistake afterwards. Very odd you are indeed. Root
and twig, very odd!"
Xseanzee disco (5:52:40 PM): Not only did Gimli get scared like a little girl,
but i saw Aragorn kind of get a lot more serious about his kingship down there.
VardaValar1 (5:52:41 PM): Very good quote Gwaihir! Thanks!
VardaValar1 (5:53:10 PM): The only one not scared was the full-blooded elf, so
Gimli had company
ArPharazonV (5:53:11 PM): hm... that's what you get for reading lotr a week for
every book
ArPharazonV (5:53:17 PM): you miss such details
VardaValar1 (5:53:41 PM): Why would it affect Gimli so much?
VardaValar1 (5:53:56 PM): They were human shades, not dwarven
Elwing V (5:54:11 PM): The sense of the dead and why they were I would think
Xseanzee disco (5:54:17 PM): cause dwarves aren't a very 'strong minded' people
in my opinion.
GwaihirValar (5:54:29 PM): perhaps it was the thought that being underground
scared him that made it SO bad
VardaValar1 (5:54:45 PM): Even the half-elves, the twins, were affected, being
part human
GwaihirValar (5:55:08 PM): I mean, any creature other than an Elf or Aragorn or
a Maia would've been terrified under there... but for Gimli I think it was more
that he was afraid while underground that made it so hard...
VardaValar1 (5:55:09 PM): Human shades very much did not belong in dwarf
ArPharazonV (5:55:09 PM): so, the fact that he was scared, made him even more
Xseanzee disco (5:55:13 PM): they can stand the elements just fine, but when it
comes to mind games, and things they can't understand, they flip.
Elwing V (5:55:43 PM): Not afraid in Moria - how much more underground can you
VardaValar1 (5:55:50 PM): So you mean a dwarf is physically strong, but has
trouble adapting to new things in his mind?
Xseanzee disco (5:55:52 PM): different circumstances.
GwaihirValar (5:55:54 PM): exactly...
Xseanzee disco (5:55:59 PM): Aye Varda.
GwaihirValar (5:56:02 PM): well, we all know how stubborn Dwarves are
ArPharazonV (5:56:08 PM): well, that sounds appropriate for Dwarves, yes
GwaihirValar (5:56:10 PM): adapting is hard for them in general
Elwing V (5:56:23 PM): Gimli was rather exceptional in his thinking tho
VardaValar1 (5:56:36 PM): Gimli was one of the most adaptable dwarves, fairly
young, and still hard for him
GwaihirValar (5:56:58 PM): aye
VardaValar1 (5:56:59 PM): Perhaps his youth was one reason he was sent
ArPharazonV (5:57:12 PM): how young exactly was he?
GwaihirValar (5:57:15 PM): he wasn't yet set in his anti-Elf sentiment?
GwaihirValar (5:57:26 PM): like the older Dwarves were :-)
VardaValar1 (5:57:28 PM): And anti-any-non-dwarf
Xseanzee disco (5:57:33 PM): Well, he was an exceptional dwarven warrior, and
undoubtedly the strongest, and best trained dwarf at the time in Rivendell.
Elwing V (5:57:36 PM): Galadriel changed a lot of that ")
VardaValar1 (5:57:43 PM): Exactly can't be told, as Tolkien did not give a birth
ArPharazonV (5:57:50 PM): was he born after Bilbo's adventure?
GwaihirValar (5:58:02 PM): I'd say yes...
VardaValar1 (5:58:15 PM): Son of Gloin. When did Gloin have children. Likely
after his adventure with Thorin
VardaValar1 (5:58:47 PM): I wonder when they start growing beards : )
Eonwe Valar (5:59:02 PM): at the age of 13 :}
Elwing V (5:59:06 PM): Probably born with peach-fuzz :-)
Xseanzee disco (5:59:06 PM): i have never, EVER heard of any female dwarves. Do
they reproduce a sexually (wierd question i know)
VardaValar1 (5:59:14 PM): Early adolescence, probably
VardaValar1 (5:59:22 PM): Dis is a female dwarf.
Xseanzee disco (5:59:30 PM): hmm.
VardaValar1 (5:59:38 PM): Dwarf women are rare
GwaihirValar (5:59:38 PM): we were discussing this jokingly once...
Xseanzee disco (5:59:50 PM): i am genuinely curious.
VardaValar1 (5:59:58 PM): Each of the seven fathers of the dwarves had a mate,
except Durin, from the beginning
GwaihirValar (6:00:20 PM): perhaps Dis is THE female dwarf... who has been
around forever and Aule actually created eight... the seven fathers and one
mother... j/k ;-)
VardaValar1 (6:00:20 PM): He must have had to marry a younger dwarf lady : )
VardaValar1 (6:00:47 PM): I'm passing on what I've read. Do with it what you
like : )
GwaihirValar (6:00:54 PM): I'm kidding *grins*
VardaValar1 (6:01:00 PM): : )
Elwing V (6:01:13 PM): Since they weren't given immortality, there must have
been sexes, but maybe it was supposed to be few and far between (breeding) since
they weren't originally a "planned in the Scheme of Things" species
VardaValar1 (6:01:39 PM): They had fairly long lives, so they didn't need a lot
of children.
Xseanzee disco (6:01:46 PM): well throughout nature, animals can reproduce A
sexually, which means there arent any males or females, but only ONE sex.
VardaValar1 (6:01:57 PM): They also had a restricted area if they preferred
underground dwellings
Xseanzee disco (6:01:58 PM): a lot of species are.
VardaValar1 (6:02:18 PM): True, but JRRT addressed that problem specifically
Xseanzee disco (6:02:25 PM): In what?
Elwing V (6:02:25 PM): Not generally the socalled "higher" ones tho
VardaValar1 (6:02:53 PM): We have a female lizard group in West Texas, from
unfertilized eggs
VardaValar1 (6:03:06 PM): Sometimes a male gets in there, luckily
VardaValar1 (6:03:26 PM): Anyway, JRRT specifically mentioned the dwarf ladies
Xseanzee disco (6:03:29 PM): There are MANY species of fish who dont need a
mate, they lay their eggs already fertilized.
VardaValar1 (6:04:03 PM): Guppies can drop many broods after one fertilization,
but I don't think that applies here
(6:04:09 PM) ArPharazonV has left the room.
Xseanzee disco (6:04:24 PM): lol
VardaValar1 (6:04:47 PM): Another problem for the dwarves was that dwarven women
were not always interested in marriage
Xseanzee disco (6:04:57 PM): lol.
VardaValar1 (6:05:00 PM): So they had few women, and not all of those wanted
Xseanzee disco (6:05:01 PM): lesbians.
Elwing V (6:05:19 PM): Not necessarily :p
VardaValar1 (6:05:20 PM): Some women are not interested
VardaValar1 (6:05:24 PM): Believe me : )
Xseanzee disco (6:05:33 PM): i know :-) only kidding.
VardaValar1 (6:05:45 PM): Does not mean they went lesbian at all.
VardaValar1 (6:05:56 PM): It is a reasonable comment
GwaihirValar (6:06:15 PM): perhaps those that didn't want marriage actually just
wanted to 'sample' the male population...
Orodreth V (6:06:26 PM): /me walks into the discussion unsuspecting..
Xseanzee disco (6:06:31 PM): i hate to bring up a quote from the movie, but did
dwarven women relaly have beards?
VardaValar1 (6:06:32 PM): Given JRRT's way of writing, I think the females just
were not interested
Orodreth V (6:06:32 PM): /me draws back
VardaValar1 (6:06:36 PM): Yes, they did
VardaValar1 (6:06:41 PM): Poor Oro
Orodreth V (6:06:56 PM): Anyone mind giving lil' ole me a recap?
Elwing V (6:07:01 PM): Mating habits in tolkiens worlds - welcome to it Orodreth
Xseanzee disco (6:07:06 PM): Dwarven sexuallity.
VardaValar1 (6:07:06 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (6:07:20 PM): Was supposed to be how setting affected the
characters' actions : )
Xseanzee disco (6:07:23 PM): lol
Elwing V (6:07:23 PM): We are keeping it PG13 :-)
VardaValar1 (6:07:25 PM): Welcome to a tangent
VardaValar1 (6:07:37 PM): Some of our folk are under 13 so we have to be careful
: )
Xseanzee disco (6:07:37 PM): want to get off of it?
FladrifV (6:07:46 PM): pg13?
VardaValar1 (6:07:47 PM): We moved to beards : )
Elwing V (6:08:06 PM): Oops OK - just being safe (hee)
VardaValar1 (6:08:16 PM): The Paths of the Dead were a very strong setting we
were trying to discuss
VardaValar1 (6:08:26 PM): Lot of atmosphere
Orodreth V (6:08:57 PM): Heh.
Orodreth V (6:08:59 PM): Bah.
Orodreth V (6:09:06 PM): Being swindled into another game.
Orodreth V (6:09:15 PM): I'm so gullible sometimes.. >.>
VardaValar1 (6:09:16 PM): PG 13 is a movie rating, meaning you have to be 13
years old or over to be there
Elwing V (6:09:18 PM): I think Varda sent her storm this way - I hear thunder
Orodreth V (6:09:24 PM): Well, you
VardaValar1 (6:09:27 PM): Slowing here, so probably true
Orodreth V (6:09:32 PM): you're supposed to be.
Xseanzee disco (6:09:34 PM): so exactly how old IS everyone here?
Orodreth V (6:09:39 PM): Not that anyone follows it anymore. Sigh.
GwaihirValar (6:09:51 PM): 19
VardaValar1 (6:09:52 PM): Depends on where you are as to how strict they are
Orodreth V (6:09:53 PM): 14
VardaValar1 (6:10:02 PM): Anyone under 13?
VardaValar1 (6:10:10 PM): We also put the transcipt on the site : )
Orodreth V (6:10:12 PM): See, I just watched the Matrix last night.
Elwing V (6:10:17 PM): Anyone who can get thru LOR can probably handle our
little forays into "adult" topics :-)
Xseanzee disco (6:10:19 PM): LOL. It's 81 degreees here in cali. I'm actually
going to the beach soon.
VardaValar1 (6:10:33 PM): That is one cold ocean you have over there!
Orodreth V (6:10:35 PM): 5 times.
Elwing V (6:10:36 PM): Such as they are :-)
Xseanzee disco (6:10:52 PM): True. But it's an ocean all the same.
VardaValar1 (6:11:01 PM): I like the cold : )
VardaValar1 (6:11:10 PM): Ours sometimes is like bath water : )
VardaValar1 (6:11:15 PM): Gulf of Mexico
Orodreth V (6:11:18 PM): I didn't even realize the Matrix was rated R until
after I watched it for the 4th time.
Xseanzee disco (6:11:19 PM): Santa Cruz = Pretty Damn Cold.
VardaValar1 (6:11:25 PM): hehe, Orodreth
Elwing V (6:11:28 PM): Well it is fishes bath water ...
VardaValar1 (6:11:37 PM): We have very clean fish
VardaValar1 (6:11:45 PM): Speaking of oceans,
GwaihirValar (6:11:50 PM): where IS Santa Cruz? southern US?
Xseanzee disco (6:11:51 PM): Varda, you live in Texas?
VardaValar1 (6:11:54 PM): that strongly affected certain characters
VardaValar1 (6:11:56 PM): Yes, Gil
Xseanzee disco (6:12:00 PM): Santa Cruz is in Cali.
VardaValar1 (6:12:01 PM): Houston
GwaihirValar (6:12:04 PM): and you call it cold?
Elwing V (6:12:06 PM): Eek ack no oceans for elves !
VardaValar1 (6:12:18 PM): I call the California ocean cold, not the Texas
GwaihirValar (6:12:21 PM): *coughs* if THAT is cold... Winnipeg is, quite
literally, ice.
Xseanzee disco (6:12:23 PM): I thought u lived on the east coast/
FladrifV (6:12:24 PM): what 13+ is for america is 6+ for holland....
VardaValar1 (6:12:48 PM): hehe
Orodreth V (6:12:48 PM): Europe is rather more liberal then America, from what I
VardaValar1 (6:12:52 PM): True
FladrifV (6:12:58 PM): yes
GwaihirValar (6:12:59 PM): for the most part, from what I've heard as well
Elwing V (6:13:09 PM): brb
VardaValar1 (6:13:14 PM): US tends to wink at the PG 13 anyway, or the kids
would have no movies
VardaValar1 (6:13:22 PM): Scroll is good
Orodreth V (6:13:28 PM): ..which is mearly one reason why I'm leaving this
garbage heap country when I'm 18.
Orodreth V (6:13:30 PM): Anyways.
VardaValar1 (6:13:46 PM): I like the US myself. Tried a bit of overseas
FladrifV (6:13:57 PM): and?
VardaValar1 (6:13:57 PM): Anyway...
VardaValar1 (6:14:09 PM): the ocean is a setting in LotR
VardaValar1 (6:14:22 PM): How did it affect the story?
GwaihirValar (6:14:36 PM): it effected Legolas' choices somewhat...
Orodreth V (6:14:46 PM): ELF sees OCEAN, exit stage left.
VardaValar1 (6:14:51 PM): hehe, Oro
FladrifV (6:15:10 PM): lol
VardaValar1 (6:15:13 PM): well said!
(6:15:14 PM) Xseanzee disco has left the room.
(6:15:16 PM) Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
Orodreth V (6:15:42 PM): Seemed about right to me. :-P
Xseanzee disco (6:15:50 PM): Sorry, damn computer crashes every half hour.
Orodreth V (6:16:00 PM): Look, I gotta go.
GwaihirValar (6:16:01 PM): ooh... scheduled computer crashes now!
Xseanzee disco (6:16:06 PM): seriously.
VardaValar1 (6:16:08 PM): Namarie
Orodreth V (6:16:21 PM): Like I said, I was swindled into another game, and the
masses are getting restless. >.>
VardaValar1 (6:16:32 PM): bye then : )
Orodreth V (6:16:33 PM): I'll chack back every time I die while I wait for rez.
GwaihirValar (6:16:41 PM): game where?
Orodreth V (6:16:46 PM): Namarie for now.
Orodreth V (6:16:52 PM): On West, under Alasseo.
FladrifV (6:16:55 PM): namarie
GwaihirValar (6:16:59 PM): ah, West.. I see
Orodreth V (6:17:00 PM): Er.
Orodreth V (6:17:01 PM): eAst.
Orodreth V (6:17:03 PM): Sorry.
(6:17:07 PM) VardaValar1 has left the room.
Orodreth V (6:17:09 PM): Never remember which server is which.
GwaihirValar (6:17:17 PM): heh
Orodreth V (6:17:19 PM): I'm on East under Alasseo.
(6:17:35 PM) musics4me2 has entered the room.
musics4me2 (6:17:40 PM): Aiya
Elwing V (6:17:40 PM): back
Eonwe Valar (6:18:15 PM): wb
(6:18:46 PM) VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (6:19:05 PM): Hope someone saved that : )
VardaValar1 (6:19:08 PM): I got part
Eonwe Valar (6:19:46 PM): Got a save on everything since I got booted
VardaValar1 (6:20:40 PM): Thanks Arathorn. He says he's got it
VardaValar1 (6:22:03 PM): For Farmer here: we are on how settings affected
characters in LotR
VardaValar1 (6:22:11 PM): We had just hit the ocean when I crashed
Xseanzee disco (6:22:25 PM): i crashed too :-(
Elwing V (6:23:05 PM): Crashed into the ocean? I almost did that once - helps to
have birdform :-)
VardaValar1 (6:23:08 PM): We drag ourselves back onto shore. Anyone say anything
while we were out to sea?
VardaValar1 (6:23:14 PM): hehe, Elwing
Eonwe Valar (6:23:27 PM): only gaming stuff
GwaihirValar (6:23:55 PM): being a bird is indeed great :-)
VardaValar1 (6:24:06 PM): Aragorn was heading for the ocean with quite a group
Elwing V (6:24:29 PM): Wonder why ocean longing was so bad...seems elves were
wanting to go West eventually anyway without extra "incentive"
VardaValar1 (6:24:31 PM): Rangers, some of the Fellowship, dead people
VardaValar1 (6:24:49 PM): Depended on the group
VardaValar1 (6:25:03 PM): Wood elves had not seen the ocean, so they weren't so
VardaValar1 (6:25:25 PM): The call of Ulmo's horns, the sound of Eru's theme was
strongest in the ocean
Eonwe Valar (6:25:30 PM): It was the playing of Ulmo on the Ulumuri that first
put the sea-longing into the Elves, as I recall
VardaValar1 (6:25:40 PM): Thus it was a reminder of the call to Valinor
VardaValar1 (6:26:03 PM): The Sindar were of the Teleri group, the sea-elves
VardaValar1 (6:27:22 PM): Elladan and Elrohir probably felt it too
VardaValar1 (6:27:36 PM): being half-human may have helped
GwaihirValar (6:27:44 PM): many humans felt it too though
VardaValar1 (6:27:55 PM): Not the same, but you have a point
VardaValar1 (6:28:02 PM): They weren't called to Valinor
GwaihirValar (6:28:13 PM): and look at where their human side comes from...
Elros, who 'founded' Numenor... not exactly unfamiliar with the Sea on that side
GwaihirValar (6:28:25 PM): err Earendil*
VardaValar1 (6:28:27 PM): He had chosen Man
GwaihirValar (6:28:32 PM): Not exactly unfamiliar there
GwaihirValar (6:28:33 PM): lol
VardaValar1 (6:28:50 PM): The Numenoreans were a sea-faring people
GwaihirValar (6:29:34 PM): their human side could be traced back to Earendil...
who happened to be the most renouned sailor ever... I mean... Elrohir and
Elladan may have even felt it more than some full-blood Elves...
(6:29:54 PM) Celebrimbor V has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (6:30:02 PM): It would be a different type of sea interest
VardaValar1 (6:30:13 PM): Aiya Celebrimbor! Glad you could make it!
Elwing V (6:30:16 PM): Maybe they wanted to actually stay "a-sea" and not really
be in any lands, even Valinor if they had a choice
Celebrimbor V (6:30:19 PM): thanx
Celebrimbor V (6:30:22 PM): I can't stay too long
GwaihirValar (6:30:28 PM): That is possibly true Elwing...
Celebrimbor V (6:30:30 PM): but what are we discussing?
GwaihirValar (6:30:43 PM): sea-lust
Celebrimbor V (6:30:48 PM): ok
Celebrimbor V (6:30:52 PM): how so?
Elwing V (6:30:54 PM): Ocean-logged Elves :-)
VardaValar1 (6:30:58 PM): Originally ithe topic was how setting affected the
Celebrimbor V (6:31:03 PM): I see
VardaValar1 (6:31:04 PM): We had just reached the ocean
GwaihirValar (6:31:07 PM): the call of the Ocean that effected the Elves...
Celebrimbor V (6:31:13 PM): I see
VardaValar1 (6:31:16 PM): Elladan and Elrohir were there as well as Legolas
Celebrimbor V (6:31:24 PM): at where?
VardaValar1 (6:31:36 PM): We know the sea-longing was bad for Legolas, full-elf.
Celebrimbor V (6:31:42 PM): aye
Celebrimbor V (6:31:50 PM): though he did eventually did go
VardaValar1 (6:31:51 PM): When they went with Aragorn to attack the Corsairs of
Celebrimbor V (6:31:57 PM): oh, aye
VardaValar1 (6:32:00 PM): but how about Elladan and Elrohir?
Celebrimbor V (6:32:08 PM): never is mentioned
GwaihirValar (6:32:13 PM): afk for a short while...
VardaValar1 (6:32:18 PM): Speculating : )
VardaValar1 (6:32:34 PM): Their father is the half-elf Elrond
Eonwe Valar (6:32:43 PM): Their mother is a full-Elf
VardaValar1 (6:32:49 PM): Their grandfather is the mariner Earendil
VardaValar1 (6:33:10 PM): So the speculation is that even the human side were
mariners, from Earendil
Celebrimbor V (6:33:16 PM): aye
VardaValar1 (6:33:39 PM): Their sea-longing may have been for traveling the sea,
rather than just to cross it to reach Valinor
Elwing V (6:33:50 PM): Darn gulls - I had a severe talking to with them. Not
like I don't want to see the grandkids, but it's not like we won't have plenty
of visit time later :-)
Eonwe Valar (6:33:53 PM): One should also note that Earendil was the son of Tuor
VardaValar1 (6:33:57 PM): hehe, Elwing
VardaValar1 (6:34:05 PM): aye
(6:34:22 PM) Xseanzee disco has left the room.
VardaValar1 (6:34:32 PM): Poor Gil-galad. Off to sea again
VardaValar1 (6:34:54 PM): We've had a few crashes
Celebrimbor V (6:35:17 PM): sigh, why did I have to be killed?
Celebrimbor V (6:35:24 PM): the sea was so much nicer
Celebrimbor V (6:35:25 PM): :_)
Celebrimbor V (6:35:27 PM): :-)
(6:35:44 PM) Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (6:35:48 PM): Some folk are just hard to get along with,Cel : )
VardaValar1 (6:35:52 PM): Sauron being one
Celebrimbor V (6:35:53 PM): I know
Xseanzee disco (6:35:55 PM): switched computers :-)
VardaValar1 (6:36:00 PM): Hope it helps!
Celebrimbor V (6:36:01 PM): wb Gil
Xseanzee disco (6:36:11 PM): ty :-)
Celebrimbor V (6:36:16 PM): yw :-)
Xseanzee disco (6:36:19 PM): god i hate these smileys.
Celebrimbor V (6:36:23 PM): lol
Elwing V (6:36:49 PM): Getting rather nasty outside here - possibly might get
zapped any moment
Xseanzee disco (6:36:55 PM): nice
Celebrimbor V (6:36:56 PM): storms?
Xseanzee disco (6:37:02 PM): still 81 here.
Celebrimbor V (6:37:12 PM): storms a-coming here
Elwing V (6:37:17 PM): Typical late afternoon weather this time of year here
VardaValar1 (6:37:23 PM): Tuor had sea-longing early on, since he met Ulmo in
VardaValar1 (6:37:29 PM): aye, Elwing : )
Elwing V (6:37:37 PM): 200% humidity :-)
VardaValar1 (6:37:44 PM): We can be at 81 and have rain too : )
Celebrimbor V (6:38:04 PM): aye
Celebrimbor V (6:38:07 PM): rain...sigh
Eonwe Valar (6:38:08 PM): Here's a good one quote for anythign Elladan and
Elrohir might've felt, being human descended from Tuor
Celebrimbor V (6:38:09 PM): water
Eonwe Valar (6:38:58 PM): "And Tuor came into Nevrast, and looking upon Belegaer
the Great Sea he was enamoured of it, and the sound of it and the longing for it
were ever in his heart and ear,..
VardaValar1 (6:39:02 PM): I should say, "led to Nevrast"
(6:39:08 PM) FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
Celebrimbor V (6:39:11 PM): well, sorry to hit and run, but I must
leave.....just was home for a few.....gotta head out again
musics4me2 (6:39:16 PM): Moving to other screenname
(6:39:18 PM) musics4me2 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar (6:39:18 PM): and an unquiet was on him that took him at last into
the depths of the realms of Ulmo.
Eonwe Valar (6:39:21 PM): "
VardaValar1 (6:39:21 PM): Glad you could drop by
Celebrimbor V (6:39:23 PM): me too
Celebrimbor V (6:39:27 PM): namarie
(6:39:31 PM) Celebrimbor V has left the room.
VardaValar1 (6:40:19 PM): His sea-longing came by his experience, meeting Ulmo.
Would that have passed to his descendents, or would it have been his attitude
towards the sea coloring their lives?
VardaValar1 (6:40:52 PM): Tuor was human, at first anyway
VardaValar1 (6:41:13 PM): The only mortal man accepted as an Elda
Eonwe Valar (6:41:16 PM): actually, it happens before Ulmo comes up out of the
Xseanzee disco (6:41:46 PM): what about elros.
VardaValar1 (6:41:51 PM): Maybe Ulmo's presence was very strong in the water,
since he was near?
Xseanzee disco (6:41:57 PM): He was a pretty... uhh.. Elda kind of guy.
Eonwe Valar (6:42:04 PM): I'll agree with that, Varda :}
VardaValar1 (6:42:31 PM): He chose to be numbered among Men
Xseanzee disco (6:42:40 PM): Pretty Elda if you ask me :-)
VardaValar1 (6:43:20 PM): Verrry long-lived, aye
Eonwe Valar (6:44:00 PM): 500 years? a mere child :}
VardaValar1 (6:44:07 PM): hehe - true
VardaValar1 (6:44:16 PM): but for a human, long-lived : )
Xseanzee disco (6:44:25 PM): omg. i jumped in a pool on friday night, with my
cell phone in my pocket. thats the third friggan cell phone i've broken doing
VardaValar1 (6:44:46 PM): Time to learn, then :-) Cell phones should not have
Xseanzee disco (6:44:51 PM): without my cell phone, i am stuck in my house.
Xseanzee disco (6:44:56 PM): lol
Xseanzee disco (6:45:11 PM): i await the day water proof cell phones will grace
my life.
VardaValar1 (6:45:22 PM): Then we will never escape them
Eonwe Valar (6:45:22 PM): get a belt clip for it,.. more obvious when you have
it on
VardaValar1 (6:45:37 PM): Good idea
Xseanzee disco (6:45:45 PM): thats my second time in a year.
Eonwe Valar (6:46:03 PM): Indeed, man is a curious creature,.. the inventions
meant to make our life simpler only makes it more complex :}
FarmerMaggotV (6:46:23 PM): Aye, and they drive more demand for more complex
Xseanzee disco (6:46:25 PM): No arguements here.
VardaValar1 (6:46:28 PM): Tighter and tighter leashes, but also good
VardaValar1 (6:46:46 PM): Aye, such as waterproof cell phones : )
Elwing V (6:47:25 PM): Arrr, is there NO PLACE to go without those things around
anymore? :p
VardaValar1 (6:47:30 PM): Those rangers traveling with Aragorn had to be very
brave folk to stick with him on the Paths of the Dead, then travel with the
Xseanzee disco (6:47:40 PM): no where where i live...
Eonwe Valar (6:47:41 PM): I think first we need spam-proof home phones :}
VardaValar1 (6:48:01 PM): The skeleton of Baldor probably had a cell-phone,
couldn't reach the tower
Xseanzee disco (6:48:17 PM): if you ran accross someone without a cell phone,
that'd be like stumbling accros a gold brick in the middle of the sidewalk.
VardaValar1 (6:48:32 PM): I have so far refused to carry a cell-phone
Xseanzee disco (6:48:36 PM): simply wont happen.
Xseanzee disco (6:48:41 PM): ooh.
Eonwe Valar (6:48:43 PM): They were held there by Aragorn's will (and for love
of him, for those who come to know him come to love him in their fashion) almost
direct quote from LotR,.. had read that passage recently :}
Xseanzee disco (6:48:44 PM): best invention ever.
Xseanzee disco (6:48:54 PM): where i live, our lives revolve around our cells.
VardaValar1 (6:48:59 PM): Love can make you brave : )
Elwing V (6:49:01 PM): I too, but don't go searching me for gold bricks - I may
hit you with it :-)
VardaValar1 (6:49:06 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (6:49:50 PM): Sam is a case of love making him brave. Love of his
master, like a bat-man
Eonwe Valar (6:50:04 PM): bat-man?
FarmerMaggotV (6:50:17 PM): *hums*
VardaValar1 (6:50:22 PM): officer's aide, completely devoted to one man
Eonwe Valar (6:50:31 PM): ah, ok :}
VardaValar1 (6:50:31 PM): through all kinds of battle
ArathornValar (6:50:38 PM): Well, off to supper... once the talk turns to cell
phones I exit stage left <chortle>... Namarie for a while
GwaihirValar (6:50:41 PM): I hate cell phones....
VardaValar1 (6:50:48 PM): Watch the water, Arathorn!
GwaihirValar (6:50:53 PM): cya Arathorn :-)
VardaValar1 (6:51:22 PM): I have to go lower the oven temp! Strong smell, pretty
good, brb
GwaihirValar (6:51:23 PM): I think they're an invention that should never have
been made mainstream... they should be entirely for business purposes....
GwaihirValar (6:51:26 PM): hehe
GwaihirValar (6:51:26 PM): k
Eonwe Valar (6:51:40 PM): figured you weren't referring to the Caped Crusader,
but was unfamiliar with the term in this context :}
Elwing V (6:52:04 PM): I was wondering too : )
GwaihirValar (6:52:17 PM): me too... but I figured better not to ask :-)

We go off-topic:
Eonwe Valar (6:53:03 PM): Cell phones have uses in emergenies, but there are too
many ways they lose transmission ability,.. buildings, out of range,..
FladrifV (6:53:20 PM): I'm going to sleep namarie.
(6:53:24 PM) FladrifV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar (6:53:24 PM): sleep well :}
VardaValar1 (6:53:56 PM): back
Elwing V (6:54:03 PM): Yay
Eonwe Valar (6:54:04 PM): wb :}
VardaValar1 (6:54:17 PM): Thought I'd have to explain : )
VardaValar1 (6:54:44 PM): Munching in front of comp
VardaValar1 (6:54:56 PM): Bilbo's asleep, others not home, all mine! hehe
Eonwe Valar (6:55:03 PM): :}
FarmerMaggotV (6:55:11 PM): I should go get food...
Elwing V (6:55:15 PM): Comp and/or food
VardaValar1 (6:55:19 PM): both!
Elwing V (6:55:27 PM): Wonder of wonders!
VardaValar1 (6:55:38 PM): I left them some pork chops : )
Elwing V (6:55:47 PM): That was nice :-)
VardaValar1 (6:55:56 PM): Couldn't eat them all ;-)
Elwing V (6:56:21 PM): I should be signing off soon - invited to evening
feast...super-nacho-night (mmmmm)
Eonwe Valar (6:56:23 PM): :}
Eonwe Valar (6:56:41 PM): will there be any guac? :}
VardaValar1 (6:56:43 PM): Hi to your folks! Sounds yummy : )
Elwing V (6:57:12 PM): Sure will...also (mundanity interupts again) - have to do
some washing/drying
Eonwe Valar (6:57:23 PM): enjoy :} hf :}
VardaValar1 (6:57:26 PM): Glad you could come, always a delight :-)
Elwing V (6:58:10 PM): Glad to see this worked (I'm not terribly good with
computer stuff even tho I use one here and at work a lot - go figure)
VardaValar1 (6:58:35 PM): Many many things to know
VardaValar1 (6:58:58 PM): I read the Green Knight as you suggested : )
FarmerMaggotV (6:59:03 PM): I need my own industrial size printer...
VardaValar1 (6:59:08 PM): Had to be an SCA writer, aye!
Elwing V (6:59:21 PM): Always things to learn (and some of you thought getting
out of school was the end of that -- *wicked laugh*)
VardaValar1 (6:59:27 PM): lol!
Elwing V (6:59:41 PM): Glad you enjoyed!
VardaValar1 (6:59:54 PM): You bet! Will chat later : )
VardaValar1 (7:01:24 PM): Shall we declare this to be the After-meeting?
FarmerMaggotV (7:01:34 PM): sure :-)
After-meeting went for a few more hours, including setting up Orodreth's story for our Tolkien-inspired Story page.