Valar Guild

February 29, 2004 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST, 22:00 GMT

Eonwe-(Valar) presiding (Varda having technical difficulties)

Meeting Begins
    LotR wall maps
    Melian and Thingol
    Tangented to hidden Valar activity, other unusual pairings, Feanor and ArPharazon, heroic confrontations

    Computer abbreviations and other chat

(Eonwe's transcript save):
You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
VardaValar1: I accidentally have 2 chat rooms up
GwaihirValar: hey
Eonwe Valar: heya all>
VardaValar1 has left the room.
MaglorV: aiya eonwe
bnetValar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: heya to all thee bnetters who might be tehre
Eonwe Valar: *there VardaValar1 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: wb :}
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
VardaValar1: thanks!
musics4me2: :D
VardaValar1: Trying to invite again
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya, sorry I'm late :-)
VardaValar1: np
musics4me2: you're not latte yet
VardaValar1: Not late by my watch anyway
ArPharazonV: Seeing how I'm usually 15 minutes earlier, I call myself late
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: but anyway, I noticed something with the link you got from me
ArPharazonV: about the warcraft plot
ArPharazonV: you can't open it directly from the guild site, protected from that...
ArPharazonV: so you either have to copy the URL, and paste it on top of your browser, or
ArPharazonV: make a link to the warcraft3 faq page, which you can open directly from another site, and you can find the plot link there in the list
ArPharazonV: /game/27337.html
ArPharazonV: this being said, I can relax now and calmly participate in the meeting :-)
musics4me2: heh\ Eonwe Valar: Today's the 29tth, right?
musics4me2: Aye
VardaValar1: I'm having a comp problem. Comp says a script is making comp run slowly
musics4me2: Leap day :-)
VardaValar1: Aye, Leap Day
ArPharazonV: yep, only once every four years
Eonwe Valar: darn watch skippped the leap-day :}
musics4me2: lol, your watcch off by a year
Eonwe Valar: there, watch fiixed :}
ArPharazonV: now you have a leapday next year :-)
ArPharazonV: so, next topic... comp problem Varda?
bnetValar: Sorontar-Valar: Heya
ArPharazonV: uhm... are you al in bnet or something?
ArPharazonV: Aiya
musics4me2: Heya :-)
ArPharazonV: *all
bnetValar: Sorontar-Valar: Afk sec, getting some food and tea
ArPharazonV: hm... getting something to drink as well
ArPharazonV: back
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
Xseanzee disco: aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: I can only figuure Varda is experiencing technical difficulties
Orodreth V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Guess she is...
Orodreth V: Playing w3 right boss in rpg
ArPharazonV: which one???
Eonwe Valar: Let's go ahead and begin the meeting.
ArPharazonV: I love rpg levels...
ArPharazonV: ok go ahead

Eonwe Valar: Elen sila lumennn' omentielvo.
Eonwe Valar: Member News:
Eonwe Valar: We're all here :}
Eonwe Valar: (Not as in all our members :})
Eonwe Valar: Has anybody seeen or heard from any of our lesser-seen members recently?
Xseanzee disco: not at all
ArPharazonV: like who?
Eonwe Valar: Anyone you don''t see here,.. there's too many to give a list :}
ArPharazonV: I have seen Oropher in warcraft 3.. does he count?
Eonwe Valar: He was here lasst week for the meeting, but that's good to know he's getting gaming time as well :}
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: he's pretty good, we won a few ladder games
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
Eonwe Valar: congrats :}
> VardaValar1: Thanks Farmer, for the second rescue :-)
musics4me2: :D
ArPharazonV: All hail Farmer Maggot!
musics4me2: lol :P<
Eonwe Valar: Any other Membeer News?
VardaValar1: Someone please save transcript :-)
musics4me2: I am if the brridge don't crash
Eonwe Valar: Saved so far VardaValar1: Thanks :-)
ArPharazonV: I'll save the transcript when everybody above me is out then, and I'm on top of the presence list
Eonwe Valar: MP :} Orodreth V: Oh, um, can't remeember his name..ringwraith.
Orodreth V: I've sen him on AIIM.
Eonwe Valar: If there's no oother member News, then on to Web news:
Eonwe Valar: Let me know wheen you remember :} Or have him e-mail if he hasn't been seen in a while :}
Eonwe Valar: Remember to keeep in contact at least once a month
Eonwe Valar: No problem for any of you here :}
VardaValar1: Akhoril?
bnetValar: Sorontar-Valar: Back.. sorry took a bit long
VardaValar1: Aiyata
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
DemonicHorde69 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
bnetValar: Sorontar-Valar: Hantalye
Eonwe Valar: Ok, on to Web nnews :}
Eonwe Valar: Message Board:<
Eonwe Valar: There's a new BBoard under the MEO Category
Eonwe Valar: It's called Rolle-Play/Tales of Lore
Eonwe Valar: It's for givingg your characters' histories should you enjoy RP, as well as telling tales of your adventures in MEO when it does come out
Eonwe Valar: If you think thhese should be two separate boards, let me know, and if there's enough feedback I'll separate them
ArPharazonV: Nice, will something like that be created for WoW as well?
Eonwe Valar: Yes there will<
Eonwe Valar: And since theree
Eonwe Valar: 's at least somme interest it'll get done after the meeting :}
ArPharazonV: :-)
Xseanzee disco: gonna see the passion of the christ in a half an hour - im pretty stoked
MJKeenan123 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Remember that MMEO is not to be confused with the ME mod for Diablo 2
Eonwe Valar: And with that, we go to ME mod news :}
GwaihirValar: nice transition lol
ArPharazonV: :-D
Eonwe Valar: We have a new ppage up waiting for input from all ME mod players: It is the ME uniques page
Eonwe Valar: Arathorn is doiing the webwork. So far the unique stats have come from my overstuffed collection :}
bnetValar: Sorontar-Valar: Too bad that I don't have time for Me and d2x together. Sounded like great mod, like d1-me..
Eonwe Valar: However, it's qquite possible my unique versions are outdated, so if you play and find a unique, check it against the stats before saying "oh, Eonwë's already got it." :}
Chugin Chub has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya :-)
Chugin Chub: hay
Chugin Chub: sorry i am late
VardaValar1 has left the room.
Chugin Chub: they hadd a lock in at bowling ally 12pm-7am
Eonwe Valar: We also have pllanned a page for Sets and feel free to send in Information for both pages.
MJKeenan123: I gotta go, promised my roomate id play call of duty with him, sorry
MJKeenan123 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Links: Eonwe Valar: We have Yatt: Yet Another Tengwar Tool.
Eonwe Valar: You can type inn and transcribe documents to Tengwar
Eonwe Valar: It's made by BLLiZZARD (not the company :}), Daniel Steven Smith, Måns Björkman, Harri Perala, and Josh Griffing
Eonwe Valar: Do we have any other Web news?
musics4me2: sigh I think tthe bridge went down
bnetValar has left the room.
bnetValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiyata Sorontir :-)
ArPharazonV: *¨Sorontar

Eonwe Valar: OK, On to Gaminng News:
GwaihirValar: quick game news here...
Eonwe Valar: D2X Guild Laddeer:
VardaValar1 has entered the room.

(Varda's transcript save):

[bnetValar has entered the room.
musics4me2 has entered the room.
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
MaglorV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
Orodreth V has entered the room.
DemonicHorde69 has entered the room.
Chugin Chub has entered the room.]
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
VardaValar1: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Regular Ladder: Thorondor's 91 Paladin is now in the lead, Taking it from Arathorn's lvl 90 Amazon, who long held the top spot
ArPharazonV: poor Arathorn...
bnetValar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Hardcore: Thorondor's 81 Paladin is still in the lead :} Go Paladins! :}
bnetValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: what is it with Thorondor and Paladins?? :)
Eonwe Valar: WC3: There's a new WC3 map for download from Blizzard: Hearthglen
Eonwe Valar: My guess is the same thing that's with me and Paladins: we both like playing them :}
ArPharazonV: ah
MJKeenan123 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Hearthglen Hills: nice map
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
GwaihirValar: Also, in wc3, Ecthelion and I recently joined forces in a rather astounding match of wc3 :)
VardaValar1: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Any other Gaming News? Also, send me your Tolkien Topics :}
MJKeenan123 has left the room.
Chugin Chub: wow lv 81 hardcore i dont think i would have made it to lv 10 with out dieing once
GwaihirValar: The game was rather amazing, we won, despite him even losing his Tree as NE :)
ArPharazonV: replay??
GwaihirValar: nope, forgot to save :(
Eonwe Valar: Congrats Gwaihir :} Will we see a Tale of Lore about it? :}
GwaihirValar: I always forget to save them lol
GwaihirValar: if I had remembered to save, there would be
GwaihirValar: lol
GwaihirValar: unfortunately, as usual, I forgot to save it hehe :)
Eonwe Valar: Any other Gaming News?
Chugin Chub: i was actuly on d2 for a little th other day
Eonwe Valar: congrats :}
Chugin Chub: havent been on much

Eonwe Valar: Ok, Tolkien Time! :}
ArPharazonV: small Tolkien thing:
Eonwe Valar: question, topic, piece of trivia?
ArPharazonV: I bought a huge map of Middle-Earth Friday, gonna hang it on my wall :)
Eonwe Valar: cool :}
VardaValar1: Great!
ArPharazonV: guess that's it... go on with your topics :)
Eonwe Valar: I saw one at my local Suncoast, but it's only of Gondor and Rohan :{
VardaValar1: If no one else has one, I do : )
Eonwe Valar: Ok, Varda has the floor with her Topic :}

VardaValar1: In the Silmarillion, Melian the Maia stops Thingol from returning to Valinor with his people
VardaValar1: She could have gone with him to Valinor, one would think
VardaValar1: Why did she stop him? This would be speculation
GwaihirValar: perhaps she had a bit of foresight herself... and knew that Doriath would be needed
ArPharazonV: Guess she loved Middle-Earth too much
ArPharazonV: she would also know that Luthien would be needed in Middle-Earth, besides Doriath itself
GwaihirValar: aye
GwaihirValar: she knew that they had to stay... because they'd produce a necessary element
VardaValar1: If all those elves had gone to Valinor, they would have been safe
GwaihirValar: yes, but Middle Earth wouldn't have been
ArPharazonV: the Noldor would still have gone to ME probably
VardaValar1: Suppose she was acting on her own or for a Vala, one of those who thought the removal of all the elves was a bad idea?
ArPharazonV: was she actually a spy for Melkor? :-D
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: I'd go with no, since love was involved
ArPharazonV: probably, yes
VardaValar1: Maybe she was tapped by a Vala after she fell for Thingol?
ArPharazonV: actually who were these valar again who were against the coming of the elves?
VardaValar1: Ulmo was a main one
Eonwe Valar: If she was acting purposefully to keep Elves in Middle-Earth, it would seem she was of a like mind with Ossë, who made similar attempts as I recall (or might be confusing BoLT as I've been rereading that)
VardaValar1: True, Osse wanted them to stay
ArPharazonV: Ulmo changed sides during the history of the Silm I think
GwaihirValar: Ulmo never really took sides...
VardaValar1: Osse changed sides to Melkor and back again
VardaValar1: Ulmo was definitely not on Melkor's side :)
ArPharazonV: not once from the Lost Tales to the 'final' version
VardaValar1: Lost me Phar
ArPharazonV: what?
ArPharazonV: you lost me?
Eonwe Valar: THink he means Ulmo was never on Melkor's side in any version of the Tales
ArPharazonV: yes
VardaValar1: ah, ok
ArPharazonV: was that unclear?
ArPharazonV: sorry
VardaValar1: np
bnetValar has left the room.
bnetValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: bridge down... and up again
musics4me2: sigh, memory leaks with odd chars :(
VardaValar1: wb
ArPharazonV: like one of those castle-bridges... up and down, up and down
musics4me2: heh
musics4me2: more unstable tonight :(
Eonwe Valar: I think Melian acted alone
Eonwe Valar: For the Most part the Valar seemed content to remain in Valinor,.. only Oromë and Yavanna really travelled abroad, and neither for long.
VardaValar1: Why wouldn't she want to go to Valinor with Thingol? Did she expect to lose him if they went there?
VardaValar1: Ulmo was pretty much anywhere the water was, or his Maiar were there
ArPharazonV: she had foresight, and she loved ME very much, especially her birdies
VardaValar1: Varda could hear anyone, Manwe could see it all
VardaValar1: Didn't actually have to walk in M-e to check on it
ArPharazonV: and no I don't mean she played golf...
musics4me2: **must patch up these memory leaks :(, it's going down again soon... :(**
VardaValar1: Never know :)
Eonwe Valar: Perhaps, even though the fëa of Elves and Ainur are similar, the Valar would not have approved of such a union
ArPharazonV: Would not the Valar know it was necessary?
VardaValar1: The Valar may have wanted Melian and Thingol to stay after considering it
VardaValar1: Mandos would know it was needed
ArPharazonV: ah! when they stayed in ME they were allowed to remain together, but in Valinor it was not needed, so they would not have been given permission
Eonwe Valar: Maybe union between the different peoples (Maiar, Elves, Men) was a topic they weren't ready to take up in Council yet :}
ArPharazonV: so to stay together, they had to remain in ME
VardaValar1: Suppose that could have been a factor in Bombadil's and Goldberry's relationship?
VardaValar1: No telling how many Maiar were in M-e
ArPharazonV: what exactly were they? I thought they were both Maiar...
VardaValar1: Good question
VardaValar1: Might have been both Maia
VardaValar1: Bombadil made an odd comment, that he knew Goldberry when her heart was beating
ArPharazonV: you do know all the details, don't you :)
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ArPharazonV: and down went the bridge...
VardaValar1: No, unfortunately
Eonwe Valar: So Goldberry perhaps was an Elf
VardaValar1: Perhaps a pair of Maiar could live better in M-e than Valinor, handling the work their Valar gave them
VardaValar1: Goldberry's nature seriously changed at some point
ArPharazonV: riverdaughter... sounds more Maia I'd say
ArPharazonV: like a 'daughter' of Ulmo
VardaValar1: A daughter of a river Maia, maybe?
Eonwe Valar: I'm also reminded of the Tale of Nimrodel, and it makes me wonder how long Tom knew Goldberry
ArPharazonV: actually an assistant, but hey, you'd have to tell the hobbits something...
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: If Goldie was a daughter of a Maia, who would be the father?
ArPharazonV: Ulmo?
VardaValar1: Getting into a can of worms there ;)
VardaValar1: How does it remind you of Nimrodel?
Eonwe Valar: *passes the can opener* :}
ArPharazonV: Ulmo was single, wasn't he? couldn't he have had some girlfriends in his troop?
ArPharazonV: so to speak
Eonwe Valar: Nimrodel was drowned, wasn't she?
ArPharazonV: nope, Amroth was
ArPharazonV: Nimrodel got lost in the woods
VardaValar1: Amroth was, aye
ArPharazonV: or the mountains...
ArPharazonV: somewhere
GwaihirValar: she got lost somewhere
GwaihirValar: she just plain got lost heh...
ArPharazonV: and only one of her maidens was found again
VardaValar1: Ered Nimrais, forested though, I think
ArPharazonV: by the lord of Dol Amroth
VardaValar1: That was the other elf/human union, and the least romantic
ArPharazonV: :)
ArPharazonV: there was another
ArPharazonV: I think
ArPharazonV: the story of... what was his name?
ArPharazonV: in Histories part 12
VardaValar1: Three I can think of
Eonwe Valar: one sec, I've got that book and can look it up :} just provide me a chapter :}
ArPharazonV: second last chapter, the one before the New Shadow
VardaValar1: Luthien/ Beren, Nimrodel's maid, Aragorn/Arwen
ArPharazonV: Tal-Elmar or something
Eonwe Valar: Dior/Nimroth, if that counts, is another one
ArPharazonV: Dior was half-elf... does that count? and btw, don't forget Tuor and Idril
VardaValar1: Dior is tricky, not one or the other
ErestorV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ErestorV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Tuor and Idril, sounds like a winner for the fourth :)
VardaValar1: Aiya Erestor :)
ArPharazonV: so thus far we have 4-6 unions
Chugin Chub: hay erestor
ErestorV: :)
VardaValar1: and still no dwarf cross :)
Eonwe Valar: good :}
VardaValar1: hehe
ErestorV: waht unions are you refering to?
VardaValar1: maybe a hobbit and dwarf... nahh
ArPharazonV: usually, Nimrodel's maiden counts as the fourth :)
VardaValar1: We were counting human/elf crosses
Chugin Chub: now now whats all this dwarf talk
VardaValar1: half-elves were questionable as going on this list
Chugin Chub: 8-)
VardaValar1: Nothing, nothing!!
ErestorV: lists?
VardaValar1: Nice day, Thror :)
VardaValar1: list of human/elf marriages
Chugin Chub: talking ill of dwarfs
VardaValar1: Nope, not here!
Chugin Chub: uh huh
Chugin Chub: :-P0
ArPharazonV: it's a compliment for the Dwarves :-P
VardaValar1: We started with Melian and Thingol, a Maia and elf, and why didshe stop him and his people from going to Valinor, when she could havegone too
VardaValar1: Whatever Bombadil and Goldberry were :)
VardaValar1: Then crosses between elf and human
ArPharazonV: no, in between Amroth and Nimrodel
ErestorV: ahhh
VardaValar1: Of course that leads to crosses with half-elves and elves or humans, messy geneology
VardaValar1: Dwarves seem to have steered clear of it or kept it out of the records
Chugin Chub: bombadil reminded me of a dwarf
Chugin Chub: in size
VardaValar1: No dwarf/human or dwarf/elf or dwarf/hobbit
VardaValar1: I wondered if
ArPharazonV: hobbit/anything else?
VardaValar1: Bombadil changed size to make the hobbits comfortable
VardaValar1: hobbits were from humans originally
VardaValar1: Some kind of mutation maybe?
Chugin Chub: he had a nice long beard
ErestorV: how 'bour golum and himself hehe\
ArPharazonV: I can hardly see Gollum in the Misty Mountains with a Goblin Girl for 500 years...
Chugin Chub: :-)
VardaValar1: Don't think he's that constant? : )
Chugin Chub: but mine is longer
ArPharazonV: or multiple Goblin Girls, whether or not at the same time... sorry, conv deteriating
VardaValar1: I'll have to hide soon :)
Eonwe Valar: As far as I can tell, Tal-Elmar is a Druadan,..
VardaValar1: pretend I can't hear
VardaValar1: a wose?
ArPharazonV: yes, but was not his father half Elf or something?
VardaValar1: Woses came from humans
ArPharazonV: or he?
Eonwe Valar: His father also appears to be a Druadan
Eonwe Valar: his mother as best I can tell is either Easterling or Dunadan
ErestorV: when Tuor grew old, and he and Idril sailed into tye west, Do you think they were admitted into Aman?
ArPharazonV: Or am I confused by the alternate style of the story, and was his father half of Hador or something...
Eonwe Valar: Woses are humans, so I certainly hope they came from humans :}
ArPharazonV: I thought they were evolved orcs :-D
VardaValar1: Tuor is said to be the only mortal man ito go to Eldamar
VardaValar1: Proves it doesn't have to be fatal to humans
ErestorV: or hobbits
ArPharazonV: well, if Hobbits were men
ArPharazonV: yes
VardaValar1: aye
ArPharazonV: then we have 1 man, 2 hobbits or three, and probably 1 dwarf
ArPharazonV: going to the Undying Lands
ArPharazonV: was Gimli descended from Thror btw?
VardaValar1: It also mentions that humans stopped there for a short time to meditate before going on to, apparently, Eru
Eonwe Valar: Tuor was a special case: was the only Human counted among the Eldar
ErestorV: well you have to count earendil as well
VardaValar1: Earendil had to go sail in the sky, not land in Valinor
ArPharazonV: again, like Dior earlier: Earendil was not fully man
ErestorV: he walked the land of Valanor looking for the valar and was heard in the councle of doom
Eonwe Valar: Interesting how in the debates of what to do with Earendil, his Vanyarin blood was not mentioned :}
VardaValar1: Guess they figured not enough of it?
ArPharazonV: :)
VardaValar1: Seems as if it should have counted in his favor
Eonwe Valar: indeed
VardaValar1: Needed a better rep :)
ErestorV: for sure
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: He was descended from three houses of the Edain, and the three Houses of the Elves...
ArPharazonV: truly a beautiful mix
VardaValar1: He was perfect to represent everyone, was the one they waited for
ErestorV: The looked for that comes at unawares!
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Lot of that
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ArPharazonV: just not descended from Olwe...
Chugin Chub: namarie
VardaValar1: Namarie
Chugin Chub has left the room.
GwaihirValar: afk , dinnertime
ArPharazonV: guess that's Arwen and her descendants only
ErestorV: i just loved that passage in the sil.
VardaValar1: The unawares? Good one
ArPharazonV: Arwen was Vanyar, Noldor, Sindar, Valinor-Teleri, Haleth, Hador and Beor
VardaValar1: Poor silvans keep being left out
ArPharazonV: :)
VardaValar1: Still don't know what Legolas's mom's race was
ArPharazonV: dwarves too! :-D
VardaValar1: hehe
ErestorV: "Hail earendil, of the mariners most renowned, the looked for that cometh at unawares, the longed for that cometh beyond hope? Hail Earendil, bearer of light before the Sun and Moon! Splendour of the Children of Earth,
VardaValar1: someone has to speak up for the dwarves with Thror gone now :)
ErestorV: star in the darkness, jewel in the sunset, rediant in the morning!"
VardaValar1: "We expected you earlier"
ErestorV: just thought i would share . hehe
ArPharazonV: I'm supposed to be a really anti-non-human guy.... out of character I'd guess
VardaValar1: Beautiful! Thanks, Erestor :)
MaglorV: Hehe, sounds like Tolkien's inspiration kinda, "Eala Earendel, eala beorhtast ofer middangeard monnum sneded."
VardaValar1: dying helped you grow up ;)
MaglorV: oops, "engla beorhtast"
ErestorV: well spoke Maglor
ErestorV: :)
ArPharazonV: I never died
MaglorV: and sended, argh, i need to learn how to type
VardaValar1: got a good dunking, Phar
ArPharazonV: I lie sleeping under the mountains
ArPharazonV: waiting to be freed, at the end of days
VardaValar1: Hey, that's right! You landed
VardaValar1: Caves of the Forgotten
ArPharazonV: yes, the Silm says I lie imprisoned
VardaValar1: Is Feanor there too?
ArPharazonV: thus, not dead
VardaValar1: sleeping anyway
ArPharazonV: Feanor dead
ArPharazonV: in Mandos
VardaValar1: Lousy way to get that immortality you were after
ArPharazonV: btw, nothing said about sleep...
ArPharazonV: just imprisonment
ArPharazonV: until the last battle and the day of doom
VardaValar1: Feanor died, aye
ArPharazonV: so I'm in Valinor, I'm immortal, and I'm awake...
ArPharazonV: too bad I can't get out
VardaValar1: Died of balrogging
MaglorV: lol, balrogging, awesome word
Eonwe Valar: Impressive that it took Plural Balrogs to wound him fatally.
ArPharazonV: not just Gothmog?
VardaValar1: stuck in the Caves
Eonwe Valar: he was surrounded by Balrogs :}
ArPharazonV: ok
GwaihirValar: back
VardaValar1: If the change of the world created the Caves of the Forgotten, I wonder where they were
VardaValar1: wb
ArPharazonV: Gothmog had some other victims then
ArPharazonV: on Valinor I'd say
VardaValar1: in it most likely
ArPharazonV: do not connect those 2 sentences
Eonwe Valar: Thy're among the Twilight Isles are they not?
GwaihirValar: Feanor fought a number of Balrogs off, it was only when Gothmog joined the fight that he went down
VardaValar1: Feanor managed to survive a while, his sons rescued him
VardaValar1: Even balrogs didn't kill him on the spot
GwaihirValar: guess Gothmog didn't want the Balrogs' reputation sullied by losing with anumber of them vs one Elf :)
Eonwe Valar: Only two others managed to
VardaValar1: aye :)
ArPharazonV: But Ar-Pharazon the King and the mortal warriors that had set foot upon the land of Aman...
Eonwe Valar: ack, hit caps :}
ArPharazonV: ....
Eonwe Valar: been reading this tal of Tal-Elmar :}
Eonwe Valar: tale even :}
ErestorV: then he died; but he had neither burial nor tomb, sor so fiery was his spirit that as is sped his body fell to ash, and was borne away like smoke:
ArPharazonV: .... lie imprisoned in the Caves of the Forgotten
GwaihirValar: aye
ArPharazonV: so the Caves lie upon the land of Aman
MaglorV: well, I'm off to play some D2X, namarie
ArPharazonV: Namarie
VardaValar1: After they landed on Aman, the change of the world came
VardaValar1: Namarie
MaglorV has left the room.
ErestorV: Namarie
Eonwe Valar: Only two others held battles that could be even romotely compared to Fëanor's : Fingolfin (who battled Morgoth and succeeded in wounding him seven times) and FIngon (who was fighting well until another Balrog came up from behind).
GwaihirValar: or rather, the land which Aman occupied before the change
VardaValar1: Might not have been smack dab in Valinor
ArPharazonV: I love the Duel of Fingolfin...
ErestorV: what about sam and shelob?
ArPharazonV: one of my favorite pieces
VardaValar1: Another case of miscommunication
GwaihirValar: then there're the two Elven warriors who sacrificed themselves to beat the Balrogs
VardaValar1: Shelob's own weight against herself, wonderful :)
GwaihirValar: Boromir's death was also rather amazing
VardaValar1: Glorfindel for one
GwaihirValar: Aye, my former persona :)
ErestorV: the taking of Hurin
ArPharazonV: Turin's death was nice
VardaValar1: You madea good Glorfindel :)
GwaihirValar: that was a nice one as well
GwaihirValar: Glad you thought so :)
VardaValar1: An excellent Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: I prefer soaring, however :)
GwaihirValar: walking gets tiresome :)
VardaValar1: I quite agree :)
VardaValar1: ack, the yellow face
ErestorV: hide
ErestorV: !!!
ArPharazonV: invasion of the smileys!
VardaValar1: Looks as if we've been stamping it all over the chat
GwaihirValar: I'm just glad I never had to be burdened by Dwarf-flesh... I always got to carry the Maia
VardaValar1: Hobbits were pretty light too
GwaihirValar: Stinky Dwarves... my kin told me that it took forever to get the smell out of the feathers ;)
ErestorV: ]hehe
VardaValar1: Forged smell
ArPharazonV: don't let Thror hear it...
VardaValar1: oops, transcript
GwaihirValar: what'll he do, wave his axe at me as I fly overhead? :)
ErestorV: hehe
VardaValar1: Should we adjourn to Bnet?
ArPharazonV: no!
ArPharazonV: continue!
VardaValar1: yell loud dwarf words
ArPharazonV: it's fun!
ErestorV: just do not make you Erie in any dwarm infested mountains
GwaihirValar: hehe
ArPharazonV: other heroic battles?
VardaValar1: Wayyy out on the ledge maybe
VardaValar1: Heroic battles, solid Tolkien
VardaValar1: Hurin
ErestorV: Luthien and Sauron
ArPharazonV: and his bro, Huor
GwaihirValar: hmm... I don't know about battle... but actions: Frodo's 'last stand'
VardaValar1: Helm's Deep
VardaValar1: Finrod and Sauron
ArathornValar has entered the room.
ErestorV: Luthien and Morgoth
ArPharazonV: Luthien and Sauron: not really a battle I'd say
GwaihirValar: at Rivendell
VardaValar1: Finrod and the werewolf
VardaValar1: Aiya :)
ArPharazonV: I mean Morgoth
VardaValar1: Sure it was, just not with swords
ArPharazonV: Huan and Sauron was nice
VardaValar1: Hi! We're on heroic battles now
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Interesting: it seems Tal Elmar served Sauron,.. or at least his people did in a general sense.
ArPharazonV: his people did, they were Swarthy Men
GwaihirValar: I repeat Frodo's last stand before near-succumbing to the morgul-blade wound
GwaihirValar: not exactly a battle
GwaihirValar: but a very heroic action
GwaihirValar: that was sadly cut out of the movie
ErestorV: He chanted a sont of wizardry,
VardaValar1: At first, humans served Morgoth. Lot of humans worshipped Sauron too
ErestorV: of piercing, opening, of treachery,
VardaValar1: Very heroic, aye
VardaValar1: Go Erestor!
ErestorV: Revaling, uncovering, betraying.
ErestorV: Then sudden Felagund there swaying
ArathornValar: sorry... was out bday celbrating. (me and Aragorn!)... back for a sec
ErestorV: Sang in answer a song of staying
ErestorV: Risisting, battling against power
Eonwe Valar: Yeah, but we never hear their side of the story,.. until now :} too bad I'm still back on vol 1 of HoME and I have another book to read before I contrinue with vol 2 :}
ErestorV: Of secrets kept strengthnlike a tower,
ArPharazonV: Ah yes, Aragorn's birthday on 1st of March or something?
ErestorV: er...
ArathornValar: take care all. off to fun...
VardaValar1: bye Arathorn
ArPharazonV: Namarie, have fun
ErestorV: and trust unbroken, freedom, escap;
ArathornValar has left the room.
ErestorV: of changing and of shifting shape,
ArPharazonV: you actually reciting the entire song?
ErestorV: of snares eluded, broken traps,
VardaValar1: I love re-hearing it
ErestorV: The prison opening, the chain that snaps.
ErestorV: Backwards and forwards wswayed their song.
ErestorV: Reeling and foundering, as ever more strong
ErestorV: the chanting swelled, Felagund fought,
ErestorV: And all the Magic and might he brought
ErestorV: Of Elvenesse into hie sords,
VardaValar1: (note "fought")
ErestorV: softly in the gloom they heard the birds
ArPharazonV: Tolkien does have a way with words, doesn't he? :-D
ArPharazonV: *¨did
ArPharazonV: *did
ErestorV: Singing afar in Nargothrond
ErestorV: the singing of the sea beyond,
ErestorV: beyond the western world on sand
ErestorV: on sand of pearls in elvenland.
ArPharazonV: where exactly is Elvenesse, is that on Valinor?
ErestorV: then ghe gloom gathered; darkness growing
ErestorV: In Valinor, the red blood flowing
ArPharazonV: or Tol Eressea?
ErestorV: Beside the Sea where the Noldor slew
ErestorV: The foamriders, and stealing dres
ErestorV: their white ships with their white sails
ErestorV: from lamplit havens. The wind wails,
ArPharazonV: ah, the poor Teleri... I still love the name Solosimpi actually :)
ErestorV: the wolf howls. the ravens flee
ErestorV: the ice mutters in the mopuths of the sea.
ErestorV: The captives said in angband mourns.
ErestorV: Thunder rumbles, the fires burn-
VardaValar1: Complete Guide says Elvenesse means land of the elves. Might be Nargothrond or Eldamar, probably collective realms of all elves.
ErestorV: and finrod fell before the throne.
ArPharazonV: thnx
ErestorV: !!!
ErestorV: i realy love that
VardaValar1: Pearls were around Tol Eressea in the shallows
ErestorV: i would loved to have talked to tolkien an asked him which poets inspired him.
VardaValar1: A great favorite of mine as well. Thank you!
ArPharazonV: who created BeoWulf?
ErestorV: *bows)
ErestorV: who?
VardaValar1: Beowulf
ArPharazonV: sorry, one word...
VardaValar1: Don't believe that is known
Eonwe Valar: An old Briton :}
Eonwe Valar: or an Anglo, Saxon, or Jute :}
ArPharazonV: :)
ArPharazonV: ah, I just realized I'm the one who uses the most smilies... apologies to all the room!
VardaValar1: The Kinslaying was the crime of Finrod's people that did him in for the song fight
VardaValar1: I usually use them by the bucket, Phar, but they look too obvious in here
GwaihirValar: I use them most I think
ArPharazonV: =) also useful
ArPharazonV: cant find the }
VardaValar1: and the space : )
VardaValar1: =)
ArPharazonV: : )
Eonwe Valar: It's a reserved key just for me Phar :}
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: I usually use =) for grin
GwaihirValar: I usually use *grins* for grin
GwaihirValar: lol
ArPharazonV: hehe, it's on here somewhere, but I've got the wrong keyboard for this software... on my other keyboard it's on the right place, I'll check
ArPharazonV: {}
ArPharazonV: found it
ArPharazonV: :}
VardaValar1: ErestorV doesn't show up on my online buddy list
ErestorV: back
GwaihirValar: wb
VardaValar1: Aiyata
ErestorV: thanks
ErestorV: i am not on your buddy list?
ArPharazonV: indeed, he's offline on my list as well
Eonwe Valar: hmm he's listed as being offline to me
VardaValar1: You are on my list, but not showing up as online
GwaihirValar: he might be on invisible
ArPharazonV: you sure you're using AIM?
VardaValar1: O good. Not must my computer going bonkers
GwaihirValar: like HeraldTantras, my other sn, is
VardaValar1: Hidalgo movie is coming on March 5
VardaValar1: Oscars tonight aren't they?
GwaihirValar: I think so
Eonwe Valar: Btw, RP/Tales of Lore aded to WoW section as well
ArPharazonV: yeah!
VardaValar1: Nice :)
VardaValar1: Our very own RotK group is up for awards
ArPharazonV: btw, those RP things, are they like journals or something?
Eonwe Valar: RP things?
VardaValar1: If they make it, will be the first fantasy film ever to be awarded an Oscar for anything
Eonwe Valar: You mean the Tales of Lore?
ArPharazonV: yes
ArPharazonV: Tales of Lore, character histories, both
Eonwe Valar: They're fdor if, say, you have a memorable event you'd like to tell about in an RP fashion (Tolkien encouraged :})
ArPharazonV: and the Character Histories? that's what I meant most
VardaValar1: Called Epic Tales elsewhere on Forum
Eonwe Valar: Examples of Tales of Lore can be found in both the SC/BS section and the WC3/TFT sections
Eonwe Valar: Oh, is it?
Eonwe Valar: pardon, thought I was being consistent :}
VardaValar1: Too many of us cooks stirring the pot :)
VardaValar1: Any consistency seen on the forum is to be admired :)
Eonwe Valar: Character Histories ,that simply means the background info for your character going into the game
ErestorV: ahh can you contact me now?
ArPharazonV: Man, when I get a little webskills and a little break from my college, I'm definetely going to try for Maia or even Vala someday
Eonwe Valar: For example, my Elf for MEO is a Noldo decended from the Remnants of the group that travelled with Fëanor
VardaValar1: Web skill not required for Maia or Vala
ArPharazonV: yes, you're online Erestor!
VardaValar1: Aye, there he is!
ErestorV: thanks
ArPharazonV: But I mean, if I wanted to participate in forum organizations and stuff...
VardaValar1: MeO forced us to come up with alternate histories
ArPharazonV: Or web pages
ErestorV: i, for the life of me am soooooooo confused by all this comp. stuff.....
ErestorV: hehe
VardaValar1: No one can know it all :)
VardaValar1: Learn what you want to use and don't sweat the rest
ArPharazonV: I would like to own at least a little bit of skills
ErestorV: well i need to be afk for about 20 min..
ArPharazonV: Namarie, probably gone by then
VardaValar1: Later, Erestor : )
VardaValar1: Phar, grab Netscape, get Composer, read our Web
VardaValar1: Team page for tips
VardaValar1: That can get you started
VardaValar1: free yet
ArPharazonV: that's what I mean by obtaining the skills :)
VardaValar1: Do you have Netscape?
ArPharazonV: nope
VardaValar1: Easy to download, free
VardaValar1: When you do, get Composer with it
VardaValar1: Then play around with it, making pages
ArPharazonV: I'll see... but the most important is getting a little free time on my hands :)
VardaValar1: Now? : )
VardaValar1: dl in background?
Orodreth V: Aiya all!
Orodreth V: I live!
VardaValar1: Aiya Orodreth!
Orodreth V: *muttering* Manwe, really now. I don't need ALL that lightning.
Orodreth V: ;-)
ArPharazonV: of course, for the meetings and stuff I always make time.... but to actually make pages and stuff... using 'stuff' a lot here....
VardaValar1: Depends on what you want to do
VardaValar1: Composer is fast, reason I use it
VardaValar1: Too many web pages on my hands
Eonwe Valar: MS Word can be used for web pages, but tends to include alot of filler
ArPharazonV: I found myself actually complaining to Manwe about the storms here the last few weeks :)
VardaValar1: lol
VardaValar1: He and Ulmo get to playing and it gets a bit wild out there
Orodreth V: I've complained to Mandos a few times.
VardaValar1: Arguing about your fate?
Orodreth V: Yup.
Orodreth V: Didn't get me far though.
Eonwe Valar: So you throw bolts of light to break them up? ;}
ArPharazonV: Ah, could do that too...
ArPharazonV: talking to Mandos I mean
ArPharazonV: not throwing lightning bolts... not a Vala yet :D
VardaValar1: Might need to gripe to Vairie, Mandos's wife who weaves the tapestries
Orodreth V: "Honey, really, havn't you hd enough fun for one day?" ;-)
VardaValar1: lol
VardaValar1: Vaire
VardaValar1: Must learn to spell her name. Can't have that lady ticked off
ArPharazonV: actually, I think you'd have to talk to Illuvatar...
ArPharazonV: doesn't Vaire just make those tapestries about the past?
Orodreth V: time to go again.
VardaValar1: Really basic Song change? You're out of luck
VardaValar1: namarie
Orodreth V: Back in an hour.
ArPharazonV: namarie
Eonwe Valar: hf :}
ArPharazonV: definetely gone in an hour
ArPharazonV: still sure I don't spell that word right...
ArPharazonV: is it definitely?
Eonwe Valar: definitely it's definitely :}
ArPharazonV: ok
VardaValar1: In the Valaquenta, it says Vaire
VardaValar1: weaves all things that have ever been in Time
Eonwe Valar: Vairë if we want to be technical ;}
ArPharazonV: In the Index it says Vairë
ArPharazonV: yes
ArPharazonV: that have ever been
VardaValar1: I can't type umlauts
ArPharazonV: not that will ever be
Eonwe Valar: but not everyone knows the Alt-137 so it's an understood ë :}
VardaValar1: Guess it's how you look at Time
VardaValar1: doesn't work for me
ArPharazonV: OMG, not that discussion again?
GwaihirValar: I actually have to change my settings to GET spec characters
Eonwe Valar: It doesn't work for you?
Eonwe Valar: that's strange
VardaValar1: Ulmo's not here for a proper Time discussion :)
ArPharazonV: Ulmo?
VardaValar1: Ulmo-(Valar)
ArPharazonV: is he here?
VardaValar1: No
Eonwe Valar: He
Eonwe Valar: 's one of the guys who, if you see, you definitely want to mention in the Member News section :}
VardaValar1: I see him, but only in EverQuest
VardaValar1: Even his email seems to be fritzing out
VardaValar1: He says he's sending me an email, then nothing happens
VardaValar1: He doesn't have his bnet cd's now, I don't think
ArPharazonV: ah.... one of the original members, isn't he? I've read his 'diary'
VardaValar1: He and I were co-chairs after Eru and Manwe dropped
Eonwe Valar: Does he know how to get and use AiM? :}
VardaValar1: I have tried to get him to : )
VardaValar1: I'll try again
Eonwe Valar: another option is to see if he can get a hotmail account :}
ArPharazonV: I want to meet the one who's domain I passed to gain access to Valinor :)
VardaValar1: Wouldn't that be Yahoo, to be accepted in places that take paid only?
VardaValar1: Hop in EverQuest and type /who Ulmo all
Eonwe Valar: well, yes, but hotmail would give him e-mailing abilities at least, so either one
ArPharazonV: don't have the game
Eonwe Valar: The original domain name was from Eru
VardaValar1: Very few of us left in Zebuxoruk
VardaValar1: Aye
Eonwe Valar: Alatar has, the one we currently use
ArPharazonV: don't we have a .com somewhere?
VardaValar1: actually don't need the www for doman
VardaValar1: domain
VardaValar1: but it works anyway if you put it in
VardaValar1: We are org only
VardaValar1: com is commercial
ArPharazonV: ah
ArPharazonV: what does org mean?
VardaValar1: organization
GwaihirValar: organization
VardaValar1: or ack ;)
ArPharazonV: didn't know that
VardaValar1: Now you do! AIM is educational
ArPharazonV: sure is
ArPharazonV: I've learned a lot: Aiyata, org, ...
VardaValar1: hehe
GwaihirValar: gov = government, net = network(I believe), com = commercial, ca = canada/california, mb = manitoba, edu = educational
GwaihirValar: etc.
Eonwe Valar: ooh, can write AIM off on taxes as an educational expense now,.. I wonder how much of $0.00 I'll get back for that one :}
GwaihirValar: html hyper-text transfer protocal
ArPharazonV: nl is the Netherlands ;-)
VardaValar1: half that, Eonwe
VardaValar1: dk for Denmark
ArPharazonV: http is hyper text transfer protocol
ArPharazonV: not html
GwaihirValar: pardon
GwaihirValar: blah
GwaihirValar: I've slept practically not-at-all in the past week and a half... so me is sleepy :)
ArPharazonV: what does html mean?
Eonwe Valar: hyper-text markup language
VardaValar1: Well maybe you should go roost awhile!
ArPharazonV: I do know WWW... World Wide Web
GwaihirValar: hehe
VardaValar1: milk and cookies first, of course
GwaihirValar: nah, sleeping is no fun
ArPharazonV: what was URL again?
VardaValar1: then there's www2, usually for science now
Eonwe Valar: uniform remote(?) locator(?)
ArPharazonV: could be
GwaihirValar: resource
GwaihirValar: not remote...
Eonwe Valar: resource
Eonwe Valar: ok, thought I was close
ArPharazonV: ah that sounds more familiar...
VardaValar1: Fangorn is by me, says url is black stuff you get out of the ground
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: thought it was the guy those Dixie CHicks sang about
VardaValar1: He's gaming, being very patient waiting for me to play
ArPharazonV: That's Fangorn stuff for ya... all about nature and pollution
ArPharazonV: again stuff...
VardaValar1: You bet :)
VardaValar1: Stuff also good with turkey
Eonwe Valar: (not that I listen to country,.. hehe, just pick up things while channel surfing :})
ArPharazonV: :D
GwaihirValar: heh, I listen to country
GwaihirValar: country is good :)
VardaValar1: I listen to some country, not Dixie Chicks
GwaihirValar: why not? they have some good songs
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: never heard of Dixie Chicks
VardaValar1: Politics, partly
VardaValar1: Which I will not go into here :)
GwaihirValar: oh
GwaihirValar: I've never understand the forced nationalism of the US... so I won't try to get into it either lol....
ArPharazonV: btw, does anybody know where to find the in-game portrait of admiral Proudmoore?
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: wb
ArPharazonV: I want it as my Avatar
Eonwe Valar: Pretty sure I got the meeting up until we went off-topic :}
Eonwe Valar: thanks :}
VardaValar1: It's like team sports, Gwaihir
Eonwe Valar: afk for a sec
VardaValar1: Slam the country at home, not in front of outsiders
GwaihirValar: I don't understand team sports either
GwaihirValar: lol
GwaihirValar: I don't approve of them either
GwaihirValar: hehe
ArPharazonV: should I ask my question in the forum or something?
VardaValar1: Sort of like family, slam each other at home, not in front of strangers
Eonwe Valar: back
VardaValar1: Sure, we can't help you
VardaValar1: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: what question is it?
ArPharazonV: where to find the ingame portrait of Proudmoore
ArPharazonV: I want it as my Avatar
Eonwe Valar: ah
VardaValar1: What game?
Eonwe Valar: that might be fairly simple
ArPharazonV: Frozen Throne
VardaValar1: ah, don't have TFT
Eonwe Valar: you need to go into the world editor
ArPharazonV: yes, tried that...
ArPharazonV: don't know what to look for
Eonwe Valar: go to object editor, look for Admrial Proudmore in the human units
ArPharazonV: done that as well
VardaValar1: I'm going to raid the fridge, maybe find a waypoint or two after
VardaValar1: Namarie