February 22, 2004
Transcripts from Arathorn, Varda
(pre-meeting chat from time Varda entered room)
ArathornValar has entered the room.
has entered the room. mordacil
has entered the room. mikenowo
has entered the room. ArPharazonV
VardaValar1: Mordacil, who were you on Bnet when you were in the guild?
VardaValar1: You were a member at one time, had a Tolkien name
VardaValar1: I think
mordacil: and I wasnt in the guild
VardaValar1: I remember the name mordacil anyway
VardaValar1: ah, pardon
has entered the room. bnetValar
VardaValar1: Aiya Farmer
mordacil: I just hung out with the guild a lot
ArPharazonV: Aiya all on bnet!
has entered the room. MaglorV
ArPharazonV: mordacil sounds Tolkienish... like a sword or something
has entered the room. Musics4Me2
Musics4Me2: Aiya all!
mordacil: Everyone knows me as mordacil and I diddnt want to change it. even though i like Valarguild
mordacil: Mordacil is Quenya
VardaValar1: Don't have to change, just add
mordacil: Mor=Dark Dacil=victor (thats the kind of name you use in Starcraft
ArPharazonV: indeed, sounds like a sword
mordacil: The silmarillion has a glossary of prefixes and suffixes that i used
VardaValar1: Would make a good black sword name, like Anglachel
bnetValar: ArathornL-V: testing bridge...
Musics4Me2: Heya bnet peeps! I don't think I've changed much since last time... But I don't remember :P
mordacil: I tried to go to clanvala on Bnet but it needed a password
mordacil: where did the old Bnet valarguild channel go?
ArPharazonV: I spent my first non-meeting time on the Azeroth gateway (excluding a few small games with Turgon) last 2 nights
VardaValar1: We use channel Valar
VardaValar1: Don't need a pass to Clan Vala, need to be in WC3 or have a guild flag
VardaValar1: We don't use channel ValarGuild
has left the room. ArathornValar
has entered the room. ArathornValar
mordacil: sry I meant "valar" its just been a long time
VardaValar1: And it's Clan Vala, separate words
VardaValar1: Hope that helps
mordacil: I only have starcraft and broodwar
VardaValar1: Good enough, many play those
Musics4Me2: The bridge links this AIM channel to public chat valar in battle.net
VardaValar1: Hop in channel Valar with those, as most of us do
has entered the room. HuanofValar
VardaValar1: I've invited everyone I see
VardaValar1: Aiya Huan
VardaValar1: Arathorn, you probably have the most complete list
VardaValar1: If you see more to invite, please do!
bnetValar: Sorontar-Valar: Heya all
ArPharazonV: who have you invited who declined?
has entered the room. GwaihirValar
VardaValar1: No declines
GwaihirValar: why thank you
Musics4Me2: Aiya Sorontar!
VardaValar1: You guys don't have to wait for an invitation
VardaValar1: You can invite yourself to the Valar Guild Meetingplace (and say no) or make a shortcut, depending on your program
mordacil: it seems like nobody is in this chat during the week
ArPharazonV: I see many guys who aren't here, Thror, Gilgalad
has entered the room. DemonicHorde69
VardaValar1: We mostly use the chat for meetings
has entered the room. MJKeenan123
Musics4Me2: Sigh, school tommorow
VardaValar1: but not today
Musics4Me2: heh :D
MJKeenan123: if im not paying attention very well its because im killing some orcs
VardaValar1: That would do it
VardaValar1: Adding two names to my list
VardaValar1: Demonic and MJ
has entered the room. Eonwe Valar
DemonicHorde69: isnt my name horrible
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe
DemonicHorde69: i really need to change it
VardaValar1: Used to it
bnetValar: Sorontar-Valar: Heya Eonwe..
ArPharazonV: ah, already had demonic
VardaValar1: Feel free to add a guild screen name, easier to identify
Eonwe Valar: Heya Everyone :}
ArPharazonV: in green? nice
GwaihirValar: hey there Eo
Eonwe Valar: Thorondor on through bnet? :}
Musics4Me2: I will warn you though: The max AIM buddylist is somewhere around 200 :D
mordacil: when I tried "clan vala" on Bnet it was restricted
bnetValar: Sorontar-Valar: Yeps, was trying to level the paladin up
ArPharazonV: at 44 now
mordacil: I have it minimized
VardaValar1: If Clan Vala is empty, you have to have WC3 to get in
DemonicHorde69: yes i have 200 with 100 b uddies on at any given time
VardaValar1: Please feel free to use Valar instead
DemonicHorde69: and no room for any of you
ArPharazonV: ah... too bad
VardaValar1: You can make a special buddy list for each group, does that help?
ArPharazonV: arent we your best friends?
DemonicHorde69: well you can only have 200 buddies no matter what
VardaValar1: Don't push it and find out ; )
DemonicHorde69: and i have 200 from my friends around school
VardaValar1: Good to know the limit
GwaihirValar: I wouldn't wanna know that many people...
ArPharazonV: still far far away, the day the guild counts 200
DemonicHorde69: i wish i didnt sometimes too it can be slightly annoying
Musics4Me2: yeah an active 200 too
VardaValar1: Active is the hard part
Eonwe Valar: Maybe not so far as you think Pharazon :}
Musics4Me2: **looks on calendar :P**
VardaValar1: We drop 40 at a time
has entered the room. Xseanzee disco
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, active is a different story :}
VardaValar1: Aiya Gil-galad
GwaihirValar: very active 100 would be a good g oal for us to set
DemonicHorde69: well we have 14 right here!!
Xseanzee disco: heyyy
VardaValar1: We have a lot of Tolkien-only members, guild-friends
VardaValar1: Old members who pop by or email now and then
VardaValar1: Passes 200 pretty fast
ArathornValar: seems I do, and I owe all 200 money.. all from the gov't!
VardaValar1: Feel free to let me know your Tolkien topics any time
VardaValar1: Starting the meeting now
mordacil: are any of you on Bnet right now in channel valar
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1: I am
mordacil: I see 2
mordacil: u see me?
ArPharazonV: I just invited orodreth and thror, that allright?
VardaValar1: More than alright, thanks
MJKeenan123: ok I am able to pay attention now
VardaValar1: Member News:
VardaValar1: Turgon will be offline for a while, but expects to return
VardaValar1: Elatan is back from his two week vacation in Norway, so we may be able to start the MeO roleplay thread soon
VardaValar1: Any other Member news?
has entered the room. Orodreth V
has entered the room. ThrorofDwarves
VardaValar1: Web News:
Orodreth V: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya both
has left the room. ThrorofDwarves
HuanofValar: That's me, it's shy
VardaValar1: hehe - your doppelganger
VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: Two from Arathorn with elvish language help
VardaValar1: Hisweloke's Sindarin Dictionary
VardaValar1: Has a nifty search
VardaValar1: Hobbits Live
VardaValar1: A phrase list
VardaValar1: plus a lot of other goodies, listed in detail on News
ArPharazonV: ah yes, the search option... tried it, didnt work
ArPharazonV: already over 800 searches
VardaValar1: It shuts off for a while due to bandwidth problem
ArPharazonV: wow, is that 9 hours ago already?
VardaValar1: It worked for me at odd time
ArathornValar: yeah that's a problem with that page.. they put a daily limit so they don't crash
VardaValar1: Tolkien Encyclopedia:
VardaValar1: The Cry of the Orc
VardaValar1: by Laurelin Caline, a Tolkien-only member
VardaValar1: Legolas Reborn
VardaValar1: by Varda, whoever that is
VardaValar1: Any other Web news?
has left the room. mordacil
has entered the room. mordacil
VardaValar1: Maglor, go ahead
MaglorV: Ok, I have done a minor update on the WoW Branch site
MaglorV: I have added a list of the members planning on playing WoW on release
VardaValar1: Sounds helpful!
MaglorV: Not many yet, but hopefully more in the future
VardaValar1: for sure when the game comes out
ArPharazonV: anyone gotten a beta message yet?
MJKeenan123: I think I will just stay with EQ until I have no friends left that play then go somewhere else
MaglorV: the beta messages haven't been sent yet
VardaValar1: MJ, what is your guild name?
Eonwe Valar: They're going through the applications right now
ArPharazonV: Notification is slated to go out in the weeks ahead."
MJKeenan123: I dont trust Sony enough to buy another sony MMO and Blizzard is known for not policeing its products
MJKeenan123: im unguilded right now
Musics4Me2: sony MMO?
MJKeenan123: im planing on joining Legion Of The Dead, a VT capable guild on Zeb server
MJKeenan123: Massively multiplayer
ArPharazonV: in full MMORPG
ArPharazonV: in full in full.
MJKeenan123: if you want to know what guild is in, Beneficium Decem
ArPharazonV: Massevely Multiplayer Online RolePlaying Game
MJKeenan123: errr Lat is in
VardaValar1: MJ, you're Oropher aren't you?
VardaValar1: Yes he is
VardaValar1: I'd like to play with you sometime, pretty low though
MJKeenan123: I have alts
MJKeenan123: a few below 20
MJKeenan123: or I can plvl you
MJKeenan123: I have about 28k so I can twink you if you really want
VardaValar1: Any other web news?
ArathornValar: AIm bot, varda?
VardaValar1: Arathorn, go ahead
ArathornValar: Don't know if anyone knows about it or needs it but...
ArathornValar: There is a way to send Ims to offline AIM names...
ArathornValar: You add the name "DoorManBot2" to your list...
ArathornValar: Then send a message with the syntax: ex: "mikenowo:Call me when you get online"
Musics4Me2: it doesn't really send IM's to offline people, it just waits until they get on and then sends it, eh?
ArathornValar: to the doormanbit2 id, it is a server that holds messages and sends them to teh person when they logon
ArathornValar: if they are already online it sends right away (of course you wouldn't send it to that name if your buddy is already online) <
ArathornValar: They have been upgrading lately so there might be some delays, but it's a nice feature all the same
ArathornValar: that's it.
VardaValar1: Thanks Arathorn
VardaValar1: Any other web news?
VardaValar1: Gaming News:
VardaValar1: D2X Ladder has two new banks
VardaValar1: They will need playing
VardaValar1: A second unique weapons and a charms account
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you had some news?
Eonwe Valar: Yes :}
VardaValar1: Please go ahead : )
Eonwe Valar: First,
the discussion for World of Warcraft has begun on our Message Board. If
you are going into this game make yourself and your thoughts known :}
Eonwe Valar: So far, I have Myself, Maglor, Oromë, Turgon, and Pharazon.
GwaihirValar: I might be...
VardaValar1: and the ones on Maglor's page?
Eonwe Valar: Those are they :}
MaglorV: those same ones
Orodreth V: I have no intention of getting a job to play a game.
VardaValar1: Then don't : )
VardaValar1: That was easy
Eonwe Valar: Things decided so far are:
MJKeenan123: anyone else here play EQ on zeb?
ArPharazonV: I have to get a job someday anyway, this just extra motivation
Eonwe Valar: 1.)
We will not be on a Role-Playing server as this was found too
restrictive in other games. We want to be free to be the Valar Guild.
Eonwe Valar: 2.) We will be starting out as Alliance as at the moment Alliance and Horde characters can't be in the same Guild.
Eonwe Valar: For reference, Alliance Characters are:
Eonwe Valar: Humans, Night Elves, Dwarves, and Gnomes
Eonwe Valar: Horde Characters are Orcs, Tauren, Trolls, and Undead
has left the room. mordacil
Eonwe Valar: 3.)
Tolkien will be involved in our gaming experience, from Entry tests to
rank names, but we need other suggestions on how we can involve
Tolkien, like using phrases we already use, i.e. namarië, Aiya, etc
has entered the room. mordacil
VardaValar1: Welcome back
ArPharazonV: buggies mordacil?
has left the room. bnetValar
has entered the room. ThorondorV
has entered the room. bnetValar
Eonwe Valar: Other
items are on the board that can be discussed, and feedback would be
helpful, but by no means is it an exhaustive list, as it contains only
about 3 items :}
ThorondorV: heya heya
ArPharazonV: incredible... all in my buddy list in the channel
ArPharazonV: except thror
VardaValar1: ThrorofDwarves is Huan's old name
ArPharazonV: really? that's everyone then
Eonwe Valar: If you can think of anything else that needs discussed, bring it up on the Board discussion.
Eonwe Valar: If you have any questions, you can e-mail me, ask them on the board, or since I'm here you can IM me :}
ArathornValar: I have a Q re: the game?
Eonwe Valar: Yes Arathorn?
ArathornValar: I'll Im.. ga
Eonwe Valar: World of Warcraft is an MMO RPG like Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot
ArathornValar: I'm IMing so continue Eonwe
ArathornValar: oh ,ok... I'll continue here then.
ArathornValar: er.. but the gameplay os what?
Eonwe Valar: It's roots are in the Warcraft Universe. The original Warcraft game was Orcs vs Humans
ArathornValar: and now?
Eonwe Valar: Well, it's about the same, only more races :}
ArPharazonV: many many races
GwaihirValar: although it seems a bit odd...
VardaValar1: Alliance vs Horde, isn't it?
Eonwe Valar: yes
ArathornValar: I see
GwaihirValar: does anyone else find it odd that Orcs are teaming up with Undead?
ArPharazonV: I do
Orodreth V: Me.
GwaihirValar: after WC3:TFT....
Orodreth V: Havn't played TFT
Orodreth V: But just from RoC it's odd.
ArPharazonV: but anyway, Arathorn, you wanna know the history of the wc universe?
GwaihirValar: The Orcs fought so hard to get FREE of the Scourge and the Demonic taint... and here they are back?
MaglorV: they've devised a way of explaining that though, as weak an explanation as it is
VardaValar1: Maybe the enemy of my enemy is my ally?
GwaihirValar: Humans and Orcs aren't enemies anymore either
Orodreth V: Grom returns from the dead, stupider then ever?
GwaihirValar: at least not according tohe the Orc Campaign...
Eonwe Valar: The Humans still in Azeroth and Lordaeron are still fighting the orcs
Orodreth V: No orc there though.
ArPharazonV: one nation even invaded kalimdor
Orodreth V: The entire Horde left.
ArPharazonV: not blackrock
Eonwe Valar: the Forsaken are the group of Undead allied with the Horde, lead by Sylvannus who is not serving the Lich King,..
Orodreth V: Ahh.
Eonwe Valar: too much more than that would be a spoiler for WC3 and TFt I think :}
Orodreth V: FT story spoilers
Orodreth V: must not look
Orodreth V: ahh
Eonwe Valar: Any other questions about our formation for WoW?
VardaValar1: Might have orcs and undead on both sides?
Musics4Me2: I think they should stop while they're ahead.
ArPharazonV: lich king a whole 3d party I guess
Musics4Me2: In Warcraft 1 the plot was nice and simple, and it was fun!
Eonwe Valar: Well,
the Horde is really the Entire orc army, so it's hard to have any orcs
in the Alliance as those not in the Horde are still with the Legion :}
Musics4Me2: In warcraft 2 the plot was STILL simple and fun :D
ArPharazonV: well, simple... try intertwining the 2 campaign plots in war1
GwaihirValar: they could have very easily actually had orcs on both sides...
GwaihirValar: had different class-styles of orcs
Musics4Me2: In warcraft 3 it became 3d and my comp began slowing down running it :P
Eonwe Valar: Ok, so that's it for WoW questions it seems :} I do have one other piece of news :}
GwaihirValar: had one style that was all evil magic and stuff... and then had Thrall's shamanic orcs
ArPharazonV: I hosted a game of 12 today, after the first few minutes no lag at all
ArPharazonV: which leads us to another gaming topic, one which I will introduce shortly
ArPharazonV: go ahead Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: I would like to put up pages for ME mod uniques and sets, listing stats for each, as well as boni for the sets
Eonwe Valar: Since
I do not have the time to do this myself, I am looking for someone who
plays the ME mod willing to do this for me. I will put it up with my
own pages, so they don't have to worry about finding space, but I need
someone else t
Eonwe Valar: to do the webwork :}
ArathornValar: heh... web work?? did someone call me..?
Eonwe Valar: There will be some issues, as many of the sets and Uniques were upgraded in the last patch :}
ArathornValar: I'd like to know if anyone is playing the ME right now... I've only played once since the upgrade ...
Eonwe Valar: making a few of the ones I have somewhat obsolete as far as stats, though still quite useful :}
VardaValar1: Time problem, would like to
ArathornValar: with Ulfang.. haven't met anyone else lately
ArathornValar: What web pages do you need altered (or made?)
VardaValar1: What time do you guys play, about?
VardaValar1: EST : )
Eonwe Valar: Many
of my chars tend to be 50 and over,.. hard to find people around that
level, on top of the time constaints I have right now :}
ArathornValar: well, I've been playing HC mostly, but sort of done with that... I'm up for any time
has left the room. mordacil
ArPharazonV: mordacil definetely gone now?
VardaValar1: Let's not assume ; )
ArathornValar: you can email or I"m me for any given time (unfort, Eonwe, I lost my lvl 30 char in my PC crash a while back... have to rebuild)
ArPharazonV: mordacil just signed off
ArPharazonV: guess he's gone for the rest of the meeting
VardaValar1: Lot of talk about non-SC/BW and non-Tolkien
VardaValar1: Any further Gaming news?
ArPharazonV: yeah, minor one
Eonwe Valar: That does it for me :} Thanks :}
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Phar
ArPharazonV: one I introduced a bit earlier, being the map I hosted:
ArPharazonV: the last version of Lotr Ring Wars is now available
ArPharazonV: the final, completed, bug-free version
GwaihirValar: afk for a while... dinner
ArPharazonV: getting the link now...
ArPharazonV: well yes, at least according to the creator
Musics4Me2: Bug free is quite the claim :P
VardaValar1: Low bug is good though : )
Orodreth V: That FTF only?
Orodreth V: er
Orodreth V: TFT
ArPharazonV: think so, sorry...
Orodreth V: Bother.
ArPharazonV: nice map, takes a while to get used to (my team lost)
Orodreth V: I am so getting TFT for my birthday.
ArPharazonV: and then we can have another us vs 6 pc's game
ArPharazonV: eh Oro?
VardaValar1: Any further scary Gaming news?
VardaValar1: or other gaming news?
ArPharazonV: nope, not me
VardaValar1: Tolkien chat time!
Orodreth V: I have member news
VardaValar1: Ah, go ahead
Orodreth V: I got a new laptop Tuesday.
Orodreth V: 2.8gHz, 512mb ram, 40gig hd, raedon 7500 vid card
ArPharazonV: very nice...
ArPharazonV: probably beats my pc at some points
Orodreth V: Top 'o the line.
ArPharazonV: or at most points
Musics4Me2: I have more ram :D
Musics4Me2: But that's all lol
ArPharazonV: I've got a slightly bigger hd
Orodreth V: As shown by me always loading before everyone in WC3 games.
Orodreth V: That's it for me.
VardaValar1: So you'll be playing on it?
Orodreth V: Yes.
Orodreth V: I can now play WC3.
VardaValar1: Very cool - game from anywhere
Orodreth V: and have been.
VardaValar1: Very good!
Eonwe Valar: Another tad of member news: Orodreth in process of getting tagged for WC3 :}
Orodreth V: If I had a wireless router, yes.
Orodreth V: Pity is, I don't.
Orodreth V: But I'm on my bed right now.
VardaValar1: Good ol' birthday list
ArPharazonV: when is your birthday?
has entered the room. HearNoEvil80
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
HearNoEvil80: need to change again?
Orodreth V: april 22
VardaValar1: Grimbold, aye, yellow hard to see on white
GwaihirValar: yellow on white?
ArPharazonV: here yellow on blue
VardaValar1: We see diff screens : )
HearNoEvil80: This better?
HearNoEvil80: My apologies for being late I was at work
VardaValar1: Any further news?
VardaValar1: Good reason : )
VardaValar1: You weren't the only one
HearNoEvil80: that makes me feel better *chuckles*
VardaValar1: Lucky these meetings go on for a while, so you get in on the good part
ArPharazonV: The Tolkien part!!
HearNoEvil80: can I get a woop woop?!
ArPharazonV: a wah?
Musics4Me2: er woop woop? :P
HearNoEvil80: ever see "Not another teen movie"?
VardaValar1: Was is das?
ArPharazonV: not yet no
HearNoEvil80: ok my apologies again hehe
Musics4Me2: I don't see many movies (was lucky to see LOTR :D)
VardaValar1: Funny title, has hope : )
VardaValar1: Np on LotR, just don't eat for a while : )
VardaValar1: Go to matinee
VardaValar1: Any further news?
VardaValar1: Orodreth is now tagged properly : )
VardaValar1: Tolkien topics?
ArPharazonV: been waiting for oro
ArPharazonV: and his tag
VardaValar1: We had a poem sent in, The Cry of the Orc
VardaValar1: Interesting to think what an orc's thoughts are, attitudes towards life
VardaValar1: The first ones were elves
ArPharazonV: according to some theories...
VardaValar1: Then more were bred as orcs from the beginning
VardaValar1: So the two types would be mixed
VardaValar1: in fighting and social life, so to speak
VardaValar1: Might act differently
VardaValar1: Phar, go ahead
ArPharazonV: still wondering what happens with orcs when they die
ArPharazonV: oh I meant in some theories they are said to be men
VardaValar1: Suppose that would be affected by whether they were born orcs or elves or men?
Eonwe Valar: They go to Morgoth in the Void it seems to me
VardaValar1: If they were born orcs, I would expect them to go straight to the Void, aye
VardaValar1: The others, suppose they might make a quick stop?
ArPharazonV: and their aging?
ArPharazonV: how old would they get?
VardaValar1: Depends on which type of orc they are, possibly
VardaValar1: The elf/orc might be very long-lasting, to the end of Arda, if his life wasn't so brutal
VardaValar1: Man/orc theory, no longer than man for sure
VardaValar1: But if born an orc, what then?
ArPharazonV: still finding it strange... they would have to be changed genetically
ArPharazonV: before orcs were 'born'
has entered the room. sidviscious01858
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
Musics4Me2: /me has to go eat
Eonwe Valar: Man/Orc might even have a shorter life than a standard human lifespan, based on the torture they went through
Musics4Me2: Erm too much IRC :P, ttyl
VardaValar1: True Eonwe
VardaValar1: I would think at least at first, Melkor did genetic change
Xseanzee disco: i gotta go
VardaValar1: Otherwise they could not have been born orcs
Xseanzee disco: im seeing eurotrip with my broi
VardaValar1: Thanks for coming Gil
Xseanzee disco: namarie all
has left the room. Xseanzee disco
VardaValar1: Hi to your brother
ArPharazonV: namarie Gil bit too late
VardaValar1: He can read it on the transcript later : )
ArPharazonV: that's true
Eonwe Valar: perhaps orcs were mixed with men for more than just to make them stronger and more resistant to sunlight
ArPharazonV: so.. orcs are first form of genetic manipulation?
VardaValar1: Since we can now add bits of code to genes, Melkor might have done it
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe
VardaValar1: More elf/human crosses the tough way?
Eonwe Valar: Perhaps they were mixed to affect their "nature" or "fate" as well?
Orodreth V: Why is my Bene Geserit genetic scheme alarm souding?
ArPharazonV: that would go against Illuvatar's plan I think
VardaValar1: Might have to make it automatic to send orcs to the Void to avoid confusion of spirits
Orodreth V: Gesserit
Eonwe Valar: Humans were not bound by the Music, as we all know, but Elves were, and by extension orcs,..
VardaValar1: Fellow Dune reader
ArPharazonV: since all as orc born orcs were originally meant to be born als elves or men
Orodreth V: I always knew the BG were evil.
Eonwe Valar: Man is "unpredicatable," a quality that makes him dangerous to Sauron. Why not utilize that unpredictability for his purposes?
VardaValar1: Anyone with the orc code in their genes is so corrupt psychicly, we can just pitch them into the Void?
ArPharazonV: therefore Illuvatar's plan for his children would have been somewhat counter-worked.. that a word?
Orodreth V: Is now.
VardaValar1: Melkor is supposed to have an army from the Void to fight with
Orodreth V: Orcs work.
VardaValar1: This gives a reason for training to fight and team
VardaValar1: More work?
ArPharazonV: why do I always get a 'is now' for every word I ask?
VardaValar1: I don't see the "is now"
ArPharazonV: second last post from orodreth
Eonwe Valar: counter-worked
VardaValar1: oh, hehe
VardaValar1: Welcome back, Windlord
Orodreth V: Umm.
Orodreth V: Becasue it is now?
Orodreth V: Ayiyata.
Orodreth V: *aiyata
VardaValar1: Sorry, linguistic joke
VardaValar1: So we have orcs from these different origins
VardaValar1: We know the orcs just from different areas argued, sometimes lethally
VardaValar1: Those different-thinking orcs might also have had lethal arguments
MJKeenan123: usualy lethally
VardaValar1: Might have to keep them in different divisions
ArPharazonV: And a silly hobbit could take advantage of it...
MJKeenan123: its the way of mordor
VardaValar1: We might also use the idea in role-playing, to explain different types of orc
VardaValar1: Hobbits find every hole
GwaihirValar: thanks for the wb
Eonwe Valar: As long as Morgoth or Sauron was motivating them, they could avoid killing eachother
ArPharazonV: or if they had a common foe to fight
HearNoEvil80: because they make homes out of the holes they find *smirk*
VardaValar1: Overseers would need to watch for such things too
VardaValar1: A good overseer would have to recognize what he was working with
ArPharazonV: orcs are just like humans... without a common foe, they'll kill each other
VardaValar1: Or a common goal, such as space travel
ArPharazonV: boredom is the worst enemy of peace
VardaValar1: Aye, keep them busy ; )
GwaihirValar: no... with a common goal, we compete and kill each other over that
ArPharazonV: with a common foe, we'll compete over who gets to fight it
VardaValar1: We of the guild prove humans can work together, so I have hope for the future : )
HearNoEvil80: a competition of sorts is what I view it becoming
HearNoEvil80: in order to have superiority over the others
ArPharazonV: but of course, a common interest in Tolkien will always keep boredom away...
VardaValar1: Competition is good, if kept healthy
think the idea of different breeds come from different masters and from
different elves, for fighting dwarves a different type of orc would be
more effective, and hence a balrog would breed an orc better for that
VardaValar1: Our ladder competition is a weird one, for instance, since wekeep helping each other instead of beating each other over the head
VardaValar1: Good thought
VardaValar1: Pick your orc squad according to the enemy
ArPharazonV: and if you do not know what your enemy will be?
MJKeenan123: then an all purpose orc will do
VardaValar1: Several squads, and what else are flying nazgul good for? ; )
MJKeenan123: but think about it, sauron and morgoth are master breeders, likely balrogs would do also
Eonwe Valar: For underground you get mountain orcs, for above ground you get Uruk-Hai :}
VardaValar1: Balrogs didn't seem to be of that temperament
VardaValar1: That's an idea too, pick for environment
MJKeenan123: I dont know, maybe gothmog was, who knows
I sense Darwins "Adaptation" theory w/ the different breeds of orcs
that would be bred?? According to MJKeenan's comment about Balrog
breeding an orc for specific task in the Dwarven holds.
VardaValar1: At least, we aren't told of balrogs being into science and breeding
HearNoEvil80: Perhaps Tolkien developed a way to incorporate it into his world to make us wonder about it
MJKeenan123: its not darwinism
MJKeenan123: its more the leaders are smart enough and powerful enough to decide how their creations come out
HearNoEvil80: Good point....
MJKeenan123: its like with dogs, you breed in the traits you want and out what you dont
ArPharazonV: or with plants
VardaValar1: Humans bred wolves into a zillion types of dogs
ArPharazonV: for agriculture
VardaValar1: You beat me to it
Eonwe Valar: It's
common sense, underground you get the orcs who would know their way
around best. Above ground, you get your biggest, fastest, and strongest
MJKeenan123: orcs dont really live above ground
ArPharazonV: in towers?
Eonwe Valar: there were barracks in Isengard
MJKeenan123: I still doubt they would ever be there by choice
by choice, they had a master demanding they live there, they hate the
sun and would never be in an open area with out a powerful force
VardaValar1: The barracks might have been underground? Or no windows : )
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VardaValar1: Competing for underground rooms : )
ArPharazonV: do we have any non-Moria examples of orcs without such a master?
VardaValar1: We are not sure who was the master of the Orcs in Moria, anyway
MJKeenan123: they only come out when compelled, thats the way orcs work
ArPharazonV: perhaps the Balrog
MJKeenan123: cheiften and balrog id think
VardaValar1: The balrog didn't seem to be the actual master
HearNoEvil80: can't think of any Orcs...but Trolls were w/o a master at least 3 of them in "The Hobbit"
Eonwe Valar: Azog used to be in command of the orcs of Moria :}
HearNoEvil80: so there had to be at least some orcs that had no "master"
VardaValar1: Chieftain, an heir to Azog?
MJKeenan123: yes but it was night, and they had to raid to feed themselves
ArPharazonV: Azog was an orc, so I don't think that counts
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MJKeenan123: still, he was a great cheiften
ArPharazonV: but not a master with goals very different from other orcs
ArPharazonV: while Sauron, Morgoth and Saruman had specific goals with their orc subjects
VardaValar1: If the chieftain is directly accountable to Sauron or one of Sauron's very terrible captains, that could work
VardaValar1: Morgoth over all
ArPharazonV: but was Azog under control of one of them?
VardaValar1: probably Sauron
MJKeenan123: he was more then likely under the Balrog who also had trolls under him
ArPharazonV: so we actually DON'T have an example of orcs without a master over them
MJKeenan123: so likely he did have a captian to go to
MJKeenan123: well, what about the battle of five armies
MJKeenan123: there might not have been a master there
VardaValar1: The Balrogs were Maiar, answered to Morgoth, worked with Sauron since he was Morgoth's lieutenant
ArPharazonV: were they not under command of Azog or something?
MJKeenan123: yes but their motives were of vengence
MJKeenan123: I doSauron would command it
ArPharazonV: and they DID go above ground....
VardaValar1: Sauron has nothing against vengeance
VardaValar1: He might allow some actions, especially if it kills off more elves, humans, and dwarves
I dont think the moria balrog worked for Sauron, look at the difference
between the Moria orcs Sarumans orcs, and Saurons orcs
MJKeenan123: yes but he didnt really command them to leave maybe
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MJKeenan123: when they had Merry and Pippen
MJKeenan123: the Moria orcs acted like they had no commander other then the Uruk
ArathornValar: Ture (5 armies) But what about in the Hobbit when they come across the orcs near Mirkwood.. no master there?
MJKeenan123: and got decapitated when they wanted to go home
MJKeenan123: Sauron was in Mirkwood
VardaValar1: The orcs did seem to be allowed some latitude
MJKeenan123: he was the Necromancer Gandalf went to
VardaValar1: The nazgul were arranging matters for the return of Sauron
VardaValar1: They may have been the commanders at that time
MJKeenan123: I still say that orcs had some motivation when you see them above ground
VardaValar1: Most likely
MJKeenan123: rarely would they go above ground with out a very good reason
ArathornValar: Hmmm, yes, btu there was never any mention of him as their leader that I could remember
MJKeenan123: they either need a commander or vengence
VardaValar1: The Uruks were bred to handle light, might have been showing off as one of their motivations
ArPharazonV: the misty mountain orcs in the hobbit did have a commander...
ArPharazonV: an orc
MJKeenan123: Gandalf killed him
MJKeenan123: and he was a great Cheiften
ArPharazonV: so, revenge
ArathornValar: and in walks "Commander Vengeance!"
VardaValar1: The orc probably answered somewhere down the line to a Nazgul
ArPharazonV: that orc was Azog's father wasn't he?
MJKeenan123: no, likely the Nazgul didnt care
ArPharazonV: or the other way around...
VardaValar1: The nazgul could give out general guidelines and let them do whatever fit in it, while they took care of bigger things
ArathornValar: I guess... but not one like Sauron or Morgoth
VardaValar1: Morgoth continued to affect things from the Void, just not physically
VardaValar1: Sauron was a shadow, rebuilding to physicality, probably easy for Ringwraiths to see
ArPharazonV: yet the Nazgul had even less free will than the orcs.. have to pity them
remember, there may have been more beings like the mouth of sauron out
there, he likely had a great effect on the orcs he commanded
ArathornValar: what I mean is they were in charge of themselves... orcs leading orcs
MJKeenan123: all of the orcs in lord of the rings had a greater leader
MJKeenan123: it was the times they were in
ArPharazonV: not all the orcs all the time!
ArPharazonV: after the defeat of Sauron....
VardaValar1: At some point, orcs would lead orcs in the hierarchy at any time
ArathornValar: nothing mentioned in the hobbit about that (having a greater leader)
GwaihirValar: the Orcs were routed, slaughtered, or just otherwise dealt with
ArPharazonV: btw, after Sauron's first defeat, by Isildur, he was ambushed by Orcs
VardaValar1: The hobbit left out a lot of details that did not affect Bilbo
ArPharazonV: under whose command were the orcs that killed Isildur?
HearNoEvil80: my guess would be Sauron
VardaValar1: They had been under Sauron's
MJKeenan123: they wern't in Lord of the Rings, and likely a Nazgul Sauron or a Balrog
ArPharazonV: even in Sauron's very very weak state?
VardaValar1: Standing orders would be available
MJKeenan123: yes in his weakened state
VardaValar1: Nazgul still existed
VardaValar1: The Nazgul could still hear Sauron's orders
MJKeenan123: and orcs still feared Nazgul
ArPharazonV: ah, and they brought it to the orcs... another question solved
GwaihirValar: speaking of whom... Are they mentioned at all in the description of the battle of the Last Alliance?
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has entered the room. Eonwe Valar
Eonwe Valar: Made it back,.. yay :}
GwaihirValar: I don't remember hearing of them... why wouldn't Sauron use them...
ArathornValar: hmm.. during Isildur's time, what form were the Nazgul in?
Eonwe Valar: Hantal :}
Eonwe Valar: Nazgul form :}
ArPharazonV: citation from Appendix B:
Eonwe Valar: they were around, but after the loss of the Ring they went into hiding
ArathornValar: heh, what exactly is Nazgul form
MJKeenan123: that still dosnt mean they were idel
ArPharazonV: 'Sauron passes away and the Ringwraiths pass into the shadows.'
MJKeenan123: they likely still had an effect on the world
ArPharazonV: 'The second age ends.'
VardaValar1: PSO_Viola in BroodWar is asking for Orodreth
ArPharazonV: wow, long meeting
ArPharazonV: Orcs and Nazgul being thoroughly analysed, very major discussion points all in one try
VardaValar1: People can leave whenever they need to, go afk, scroll, gives us a lot of time to work with : )
VardaValar1: I've seen people hang together five hours
GwaihirValar: and people can lurk, like I have been
MJKeenan123: well, this is a large topic but
MJKeenan123: the idea of it isnt a hard concept
VardaValar1: The nazgul worked very hard, bringing back Sauron
MJKeenan123: and why wouldnt they?
MJKeenan123: they were nothing with out him
ArPharazonV: they were completely under his will
VardaValar1: Hmm, so the Witch-king could be top dog?
ArPharazonV: if he died, they died
ArPharazonV: top lapdog
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VardaValar1: Hope we didn't offend the hound of the Valar : )
VardaValar1: The Witch-king seemed to have a mind of his own
was the only truely independent lapdog of Sauron, and even when he
rebelled he still did not hurt Saurons war effort much
MJKeenan123: I dont think so
GwaihirValar: I think he did...
GwaihirValar: he allowed Frodo to get away
VardaValar1: The Witch-king seemed capable of his own plans, in service of Sauron
MJKeenan123: the witch king didnt really
ArPharazonV: what would have happened had Saruman attacked Minas Tirith instead of Helms deep
GwaihirValar: thus initiating the essential separation of the Fellowship
VardaValar1: Frodo was hard to hold, lot of help
VardaValar1: Rohan was in the way
VardaValar1: He needed to keep Minas Tirith from having cavalry
Eonwe Valar: The Nazgul were human, sort of :} they had wills of their own, but it became subservient to Sauron's
VardaValar1: Take out the cavalry separate from the infantry
ArPharazonV: too bad it didn't work
ArPharazonV: had they won Helms Deep, all would have been over
ArPharazonV: Aragorn and Theoden dead...
VardaValar1: Disaster there
Eonwe Valar: it was Saruman's heedless burning of the forests that really got him
ArPharazonV: Rohirrim slaughterd
VardaValar1: Angering Fangorn was a bad plan
Eonwe Valar: Sauron might've got away with it, but Saruman didn't have the vast resources of Sauron
ArPharazonV: still, had both Isengard and Helm's Deep fallen, Sauron would have won
MJKeenan123: Eomer I think would have been the harder blow to the war effort
ArPharazonV: even if it were just for the death of the cavalerie and ARagorn
VardaValar1: Fangorn's forces were on the march too, so Helm's Deep was not dependent on the forces there only
VardaValar1: Eomer's death would have been disaster for the remnants of Rohan
VardaValar1: Too many eggs in one Deep
VardaValar1: I should ask your pardon for that one
GwaihirValar: Aragorn would've been the real loss... had it not been for him... the corsairs would've made mince meat of all the armies...
VardaValar1: Aragorn would've been disaster for all the free people
ArPharazonV: no Rohirrim and yes corsairs...
ArPharazonV: bye bye Minas Tirith
VardaValar1: Elves were too busy with the northern attacks to help, as were men of Dale, dwarves, Beornings
MJKeenan123: even then, with out Rohan it wouldnt have helped at all to have aragorn disable the fleet
VardaValar1: Minas Tirith had only Rohan to help
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VardaValar1: Those attacks were very purposefully timed to cut off help to Minas Tirith
MJKeenan123: and Dol Amaroth*spelling?*
VardaValar1: Dol Amroth
MJKeenan123: thank you
VardaValar1: Fluent garble spoken here, np
has left the room. MaglorV
how it would have been different had more of the western blood remained
strong in Gondor, how might the war have gone then
VardaValar1: Shall we break for supper and gaming?
VardaValar1: More of the western blood?
ArPharazonV: and for the night
VardaValar1: and the night for some
VardaValar1: You got it
ArPharazonV: 1 out of 2, not bad
VardaValar1: Numenoreans were worth many men, aye
MJKeenan123: im killing in AC on EQ, so its kinda hard to check spelling and Grammar
ArPharazonV: ah, Numenorian wrong
VardaValar1: missed the i, oops
VardaValar1: Some editor
ArPharazonV: 0 out of 2, no worries, you'll get it someday
VardaValar1: Acrylia Caverns?
ArPharazonV: ah wondered what AC was... thought it was short for DAoC
MJKeenan123: need more cash, my next buyable upgrades cost me between 20-200k items
VardaValar1: Lat is doing Hedge
VardaValar1: EQ is EverQuest
MJKeenan123: have that flag and TThule
ArPharazonV: EQ I know
VardaValar1: More Tolkien than Dark Age is
ArPharazonV: I read GU Comics
VardaValar1: to me anyway
ArPharazonV: even Warcraft is Tolkien...
VardaValar1: Oh, there are supposed to be comics on the new link Hobbits Live, haven't checked them out yet
MJKeenan123: you might be supprised, the mythology in DAoC is based more off of Nordic, which is where tolkien got most of the same ideas
VardaValar1: Depends on which one you run
ArPharazonV: including human-sized elves
VardaValar1: Our group is in the King Arthur style now
VardaValar1: Elatan is running a group of the Nordic
MJKeenan123: I would like to point out though that WC is not Tolkien at all
MJKeenan123: no Bullmen in LotR
VardaValar1: Has orcs
VardaValar1: EQ has towns of flets for wood elves : )
MJKeenan123: Ents in EQ
ArPharazonV: Ents are Tolkien, and Ents are in a way WArcraft
ArPharazonV: dwarves are Tolkien as well, at least in their current size
MJKeenan123: you get more ent like beings truer to tolkein in EQ
VardaValar1: Tolkien even took over the gaming world : )
Eonwe Valar: Warcraft has some elements that can be derived from Tolkien, but it is also unique in its own ways
ArPharazonV: even some story elements come from Tolkien
ArPharazonV: at least in W3
MJKeenan123: out of any blizzard game it is the most tolkien
VardaValar1: Middle-earth Online looks suspiciously Tolkien
MJKeenan123: compared to EQ no it is not
Eonwe Valar: Indeed, Tolkien affected modern fantasy in a way hard to deny :}
VardaValar1: EQ is very like Tolkien, reason I find it so interesting
ArPharazonV: I cannot write a story again without including Tolkien
Eonwe Valar: Middle-Earth Online reminds me more of Star Trek :}
VardaValar1: Good! Send us one, Phar! : )
MJKeenan123: and not just because of every woodelf ranger being named leegolassssss
ArPharazonV: eh... that's not what I mean
ArPharazonV: I mean, I used to write short (very short) stories on an old pc
ArPharazonV: not Tolkien at all
ArPharazonV: and after reading Tolkien...
VardaValar1: Fangorn is on the phone on the way home : )
can write with out it being Tolkien, I personally find more insperation
out of Plato and his ideas, they are more blunt, but general then
ArPharazonV: the only story I have ever written, or am writing now, is far far very far from finished
VardaValar1: Says hi to all
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ArPharazonV: since then
ArPharazonV: and it already includes much of Tolkien
has entered the room. ErestorV
ArPharazonV: inc. Orcs, and Elves are on the way in the next act
VardaValar1: Eonwe, how is MeO like Star Trek?
MJKeenan123: my college has a lord of the rings class thats both english and philosphy, I want to take it but there is a huge waiting list
VardaValar1: We were talking orcs, Erestor, was a good discussion
ErestorV: wow !!! 11 people still here . this is great
VardaValar1: Sorry you missed it
ErestorV: so am I
ErestorV: i will read the transcript later
VardaValar1: Good to hear there's a huge waiting list, means it won't be cancelled : )
ArPharazonV: a lord of the rings class?? talk about devotion...
ErestorV: yeah... years ago UCLA
MJKeenan123: my western religions teacher talked to someone who talks to tolkiens daughter, I found that kinda cool
VardaValar1: You will send us your essays if you ever get in, right?
ErestorV: used to have a tolkien Language corse
VardaValar1: That is cool, even several hand
VardaValar1: We had one at Rice Institute in Houston, Tolkien studies
MJKeenan123: sure will
ArPharazonV: you have connections MJ
ErestorV: that must have been fun Varda
VardaValar1: I didn't get to take it
ArPharazonV: too bad
VardaValar1: Pardon, phone got me again
ErestorV: So what did you people decide about Orcs tonight?
Eonwe Valar: They're evil :}
VardaValar1: Whoo, lot of stuff
ArPharazonV: that they don't go into daylight without a reason
MJKeenan123: Orcish motivation
VardaValar1: Morgoth probably messed with them genetically
ErestorV: no doubt there
ArPharazonV: and they were sent to him in the Void when they diede
MJKeenan123: *IE* orc breeding
Eonwe Valar: with that decided, we can agree when they attack us, it's a bad idea to stand there and sing at them,.. unless you're Luthien :}
VardaValar1: Could have different types of orcs sent to diff environments or types of enemies
ArPharazonV: Did Luthien ever see any orcs?
MJKeenan123: she went right up to Morgoth
MJKeenan123: likely, yes
VardaValar1: Might have orcs from men, from elves, born orcs, and elf/orc/human cross
Eonwe Valar: once she hit Angband, hcances are good she saw orcs :}
ArPharazonV: no dwarf orcs?
ArPharazonV: ent orcs?
MJKeenan123: likely dorf orcs would be goblins
VardaValar1: So that could cause problems in "friendliness"
ArPharazonV: hobbit orcs?
the orcs were a courption of Morgoths... do you think that when they
died they were juged differently than sat other elves...
Eonwe Valar: we discussed that too ;}
ErestorV: i mean they had no hand in their corruption
VardaValar1: The whole lot probably went to the Void
ArPharazonV: then the Nazgul would have no fault in their actions either?
VardaValar1: But they acted corrupt and would be Morgoth's army at the Last Battle
Eonwe Valar: I would say only a generation or two would be devoid of the guilt of their own corruption
MJKeenan123: I think that there were goblins and orcs goblins being orcs made of smaller races
Eonwe Valar: but even that is iffy,.. amybe after a while they decided they liked the evil anyway
ErestorV: save that they willingly took the rings from s
ArPharazonV: then the Moria orcs were actually goblins
MJKeenan123: Tolkien does distinct between Goblins and Orcs a few places
VardaValar1: The first elves made into orcs might have a shot at redemption of the spirit, might have had a lot of nightmares
ArPharazonV: were the Nazgul aware of the evil of their rings when they took them?
ErestorV: one would hope that the nightmares did not last too long.
Eonwe Valar: No,.. Not all were originally evil
ArPharazonV: see the poem
ErestorV: which one?
ArPharazonV: the new one
VardaValar1: My brother came online!
VardaValar1: See News for new stuff
Eonwe Valar: Hmm here's a thought,..
VardaValar1: He is almost never online
VardaValar1: What thought?
MJKeenan123: your telling me you think?
ArPharazonV: typing typing typing
Eonwe Valar: If Melkor is Manwë's brother and Varda is Manwë's wife, then Melkor is Varda's brother-in-law! :}
ArPharazonV: what would that make Gothmog, if he were son of Melkor?
MJKeenan123: I wonder if Varda ever comments on her crazy inlaws
ArPharazonV: nephew in law of Varda?
Eonwe Valar: Nephew :}
Eonwe Valar: Btw, heya to Merry :}
VardaValar1: Melkor is Varda's brother in law, I agree
ErestorV: what is the name of your poem ArPharazon
ArPharazonV: not my poem
VardaValar1: Cry of the Orc
ErestorV: what name
VardaValar1: You read it already
ErestorV: i thought
ErestorV: Varda has a brother in law?!?
ArPharazonV: and a sister in law, Nienna
has entered the room. Chugin Chub
VardaValar1: Aiya Thror : )
ErestorV: oooooo Varda
Chugin Chub: hello friends
Chugin Chub: erestor
Chugin Chub: long time no see
Eonwe Valar: pardon to break the chat with something too off-topic, but does anyoen here know xml?
ErestorV: i do not recall your name
ErestorV: Chugin club
VardaValar1: chuginchub is Thror, needs new screen name : )
Chugin Chub: its thror
ErestorV: Hail Thror the Mighty
ArPharazonV: no, not Thror of Dwarves... must remember that
ErestorV: looooong it has been indeed
ErestorV: is that tolkien script you are using
ArPharazonV: sorry I have to go
VardaValar1: throrofdwarves is Huan, his old name
VardaValar1: Me too, actually
ArPharazonV: Dog needs walking, after that I need sleeping
VardaValar1: Like to join me in D2X? : )
ErestorV: i am sooooo sory i cannot get here sooner
VardaValar1: Sounds good, Phar
ErestorV: it is a real bummer
ErestorV: for me
VardaValar1: Erestor, like to come to D2X with me and Merry?
VardaValar1: We can talk you to death : )
ErestorV: you can try!
has left the room. ArPharazonV
Eonwe Valar: Namarië\
Eonwe Valar: :}
has left the room. ErestorV
Eonwe Valar: Guess no one here knows xml,.. that's ok :}
VardaValar1: Namarie, dear friends!
Chugin Chub: ,issed him darn
Eonwe Valar: Hf Tintallë :}
VardaValar1: some kind of html, I think : )
Chugin Chub: mised. .
Eonwe Valar: Well, I have to go gather some unique item properties for