Valar Guild

February 15, 2004 Meeting
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcripts sent in by Arathorn, Farmer Maggot, Varda; offered by Turgon

Meeting Begins
    Quick AIM
    Humor page 
       Thumbnail Guide to RotK
       "You know you're in the Valar Guild when..."
    Council of Elrond fan site       
    D2X Ladder (Diablo 2 Expansion)
    WoS (Well of Souls)
    WoS Tolkien mod story planning (after main Tolkien discussion, includes more Tolkien)
    BW (Brood War)
    Cremation - Eonwe-Valar
    Arwen's death - Gil-galad-V
    transitioned to Aragorn's death, Legolas and Gimli's sailing to Valinor, and more

ArathornValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon has entered the room.
Musics4Me2 has entered the room.
bnetValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya :)
ArPharazonV: Aiya :)
ArPharazonV: just thought I'd invite you :)
Musics4Me2: Varda, I will be leaving soon
VardaValar1: Thanks :)
Musics4Me2: but I'll keep the bridge up
VardaValar1: Thank you, Farmer
VardaValar1: Arathorn, will you be running the bridge for us?
ArPharazonV: btw, I noticed another lotr movie parody summary on the valar site, and after a bit of research I also found 2 summaries from the creator of the TT summary, but this time about Fotr and Rotk
ArathornValar: can't... still bugs in it
ArathornValar: in windows
Musics4Me2: Arathorn will control it though
Musics4Me2: if you want someone ignored he can do it
VardaValar1: That would be a big help
ArPharazonV: does anybody want the links?
VardaValar1: If you would email links to me, I will put them on the guild Links page
ArPharazonV: actually, they fit in with the "Other Tolkien humor sites" links
ArPharazonV: since the TT summary is there as well :)
VardaValar1: Then I will put them there
ArPharazonV: I'll see what I can do :)
VardaValar1: Copy paste the urls into your email and I'll take care of it
VardaValar1: Thanks
Musics4Me2 has left the room.
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: I invited all I saw
VardaValar1: Aiya Eagle :)
GwaihirValar: hi :)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Anyone see any others?
PhoenixLord264 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya!
bnetValar: ArathornLi-V: testing... lalala
VardaValar1: It worked, Arathorn :)
PhoenixLord264: hey all, been a while for me since ive been here
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArathornValar: ok... sorry,.. wanna make sure I'm everywhere
ArathornValar: in valar reg, valar link and here now.. :-D
ArPharazonV: email sent
ArPharazonV: this lettercolor better :)
ArPharazonV: *textcolor
VardaValar1: Glad you could make it :)
VardaValar1: Thanks Pharazon
ArPharazonV: np
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
ArPharazonV: who exactly have you invited?
VardaValar1: I have no new Member news, anyone else?
VardaValar1: Gil-galad, Orodreth, Thror, Huan, Lungorthin
mikenowo has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
mikenowo: aiya.. Arathorn again... just in case I crash on other ID
ArPharazonV: yes guess that's it... I don't see anymore either
ArathornValar: yeah, that's about it
VardaValar1: Added your new name, Arathorn :)
VardaValar1: That could go under Member news, you have another name
ArathornValar: guess I should add it to the quickaim too
VardaValar1: Good plan
VardaValar1: Web News:
ArPharazonV: and again 1 member with 2 names in the list ;)
VardaValar1: Arathorn is about to update the Quick AIM page
VardaValar1: Tolkien Humor page has additions
VardaValar1: Thumbnail Guide to RotK
VardaValar1: "You know you're in Valar when..." has a new joke by Galdor
VardaValar1: New fan site added to Links page
VardaValar1: Council of Elrond, very large page
VardaValar1: I just blew a lot of time going through their fanfic
VardaValar1: Ours is better on fanfic, anyway : )
VardaValar1: Any other web news?
ArPharazonV: whose humor section is better? ;)
VardaValar1: Didn't go through theirs yet, barely made it through art and fanfic
VardaValar1: Their poems are straight out of the book
ArPharazonV: tsk tsk... no fantasy
VardaValar1: Hope the Tolkien estate doesn't catch them, but might help in searches
ArPharazonV: *imagination
VardaValar1: I read enough humor pages to say I never want to see another shampoo joke about Legolas again
GwaihirValar: lol
VardaValar1: ;)
GwaihirValar: so you read the diaries then?
VardaValar1: Afraid so
VardaValar1: But the same shampoo joke is everywhere
VardaValar1: I'd love to see some jokes from you guys
VardaValar1: I
VardaValar1: would bet you could do a great job!
GwaihirValar: I'm afraid I'm not enoguh of a comedian :)
VardaValar1: and some more fanfic or articles
bnetValar: farmermaggot-v: Do we get points for NOT including shampoo?
VardaValar1: You guys do really good work. I'm learning to really appreciate you
ArPharazonV: how about gimli shampoo jokes?
VardaValar1: hmm
VardaValar1: Maybe
VardaValar1: Aragorn could use some
GwaihirValar: lol... Gimli shampoo jokes? that'd be odd...
GwaihirValar: Gimli razor jokes would be interesting though...
VardaValar1: Fear of razors
PhoenixLord264 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Any Gaming news?
VardaValar1: Ran poor Akhoril off
ArPharazonV: you never know when I'll get inspiration for some Gimli-jokes :)
VardaValar1: Now is good, email them in!
ArPharazonV: i haven't got them yet...
VardaValar1: You will
VardaValar1: Any Gaming news?
VardaValar1: Diablo 2 ladder people have been working away out there
VardaValar1: The top standings haven't changed yet, very tough to beat
VardaValar1: We could use some organization in our BroodWar group
ArPharazonV: isn't there a maximum 'standing'?
VardaValar1: 99, no one has reached
ArPharazonV: level 99 or so?
ArPharazonV: ah right
VardaValar1: 90 is top
VardaValar1: Turgon, are you live?
VardaValar1: Guess not
VardaValar1: Pharazon, Turgon, Arathorn have been doing some fun stuff with WoS
VardaValar1: Pharazon, would you be able to tell about any of it?
ArPharazonV: hm... I think I won't be the best at that :)
VardaValar1: Point your golden finger at another then :)
HuanofValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Huan
ThrorofDwarves has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Arathorn or Turgon or Orodreth :)
HuanofValar: Aiya
ThrorofDwarves has left the room.
ArPharazonV: I missed the last part of the discussion, and I'm not that good with technical details :)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArathornValar: Well,
ArathornValar: Wuests have been flushed out
VardaValar1: The finger points to Arathorn
ArathornValar: *quests
VardaValar1: flushed out?
ArathornValar: Short index of things discussed... (of which I was mostly observer and transcriber ...
VardaValar1: Good pick, Pharazon
ArathornValar: INDEX:TOPIC1: CLASSES: {Types of classes} {Crafting items; Stash} TOPIC2: WEAPONS:TOPIC3: QUESTS: {Time/Setting of Elvondel} {Main quest; game patches/updates} {Minor Quests}TOPIC4: SUB-CLASSES:TOPIC5: WAYPOINTS/PORTALS:
ArathornValar: as a quick synopsis (unfort, AIM isn't good at line feeds :-\
bnetValar: farmermaggot-v: Nor is Bnet good at long messages, must get the bridge to split them eventually :(
ArathornValar: Anyway, we will post it in the WoS forum once Orodreth has had a chance to mke his adjustments to my transcript
VardaValar1: Is that the main guild forum's WoS section?
ArathornValar: yup.. in MB
VardaValar1: Thanks!
ArathornValar: Turg, Phar and Orod had quite the brainstorm!
ArPharazonV: some details:
ArPharazonV: -secret hobbit merchants at the river
ArPharazonV: -a spider quest in mirkwood
ArPharazonV: and many many more :)
ArathornValar: I tried to section off the discussion as best I could...
ArPharazonV: that I have seen, I've received your e-mail
ArPharazonV: Eonwe!
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
GwaihirValar: heya Eo :)
VardaValar1: Mae govannen, mellon!
Eonwe Valar: heya all :}
bnetValar: farmermaggot-v: Aiya Eonwe!
bnetValar:VardaValar1: We could use some organizers for BroodWar if we have any interested in doing that
VardaValar1: Any further comments?
GwaihirValar: I'd offer... but I can't even GET on bw right now *laughs*
ArPharazonV: back

VardaValar1: Then we can go to Tolkien!
VardaValar1: Welcome back
ArPharazonV: thanx
VardaValar1: Eonwe had a topic : )
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: ok :}
Eonwe Valar: After the battle of Azanulbizar, the Dwarves were forced to burn the bodies of their fallen.
Eonwe Valar: Today, Dwarves proudly say of their forefathers who fought there "he was a burned Dwarf."
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Xseanzee disco: Heyy
VardaValar1: Aiyata : )
Xseanzee disco: Aiyata?
VardaValar1: Welcome back
Xseanzee disco: Ooooh, you learn something every day
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: But the dwarves did not want to cremate the bodies originally. That battle changed their attitude
Xseanzee disco: I actually just went and saw ROTK this morning with my brother - hes home from college, they added subtitles for when elrond is talking to aragorn
ArPharazonV: nice, hopefully they do it too for the extended edition dvd :)
Eonwe Valar: However, Denethor was accused of acting as "one of the heathen kings" when he sought to burn himself. This seems to be two totally different attitudes toward cremation. What is it that brings about these attitudes,
VardaValar1: The Rohirrim burnt body piles too
Eonwe Valar: and how is cremation looked upon in Midle-Earth in general?
Xseanzee disco: cremation usually refers to making a dead corpse compact. in denethors case, it was plain suicide
VardaValar1: Did the Rohirrim just burn their enemies?
ArPharazonV: The Rohirrim burnt the ORC bodies in piles
VardaValar1: Aye, Pharazon
ArPharazonV: not their own I think
ArPharazonV: In fact, their kings were buried in beautiful mounds
ArPharazonV: with beautiful white flowers growing on them :)
VardaValar1: The Norse used to send a body and treasures off on boats that burned on the water, but JRRT has Boromir's body go off unburnt
Orodreth V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya Orod
VardaValar1: Aiya Orodreth. Cremation attitude discussion
Orodreth V: Aiya all..still sickish. Going back to sleep. :-(
VardaValar1: Rest well
Xseanzee disco: Varda, Boromir wasn't burnt because of a time situation
Eonwe Valar: sleep well :}
TurgonjustTurgon: eeeeekk
ArPharazonV: sweet dreams
VardaValar1: They didn't seem to want to burn him, could have
TurgonjustTurgon: seems I gamed right through meeting :/
VardaValar1: Not over : )
ArPharazonV: just read back :)
VardaValar1: We're in Tolkien chat
Xseanzee disco: had to make haste
TurgonjustTurgon: the important part is....
Eonwe Valar: Apparently, Boromir would not have been burned even if they had the time
Xseanzee disco: didn't want the Uruks gettin too far ahead
MaglorV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Maglor :)
MaglorV: Aiya
Xseanzee disco: I'm also wondering where they would have gotten the fire...
ArPharazonV: And besides, his body had to be found by his little brother :-D
VardaValar1: Guys, meeting started an hour ago
Xseanzee disco: do ppl in middle earth carry flint around with them at all times?
Eonwe Valar: If Gandalf's attitude is any indication of the attitude of the Numenoreans of the past?
VardaValar1: Faramir saw the body in a vision
ArPharazonV: and... wasn't there a forest around them?
VardaValar1: Not on the river
VardaValar1: The Fellowship had to have carried flint and steel
ArPharazonV: didn't he see the body on the river in his vision?
Xseanzee disco: True
Eonwe Valar: plus they had a tinder box if I recall their supply list correctly
Xseanzee disco: but making a pyre, and lighting the thing would have taken some precious time away form their main objexctive
VardaValar1: A tinder box generally contains a flint, steel, and material to start a fire
TurgonjustTurgon: oh, can I fit in a quick tidbit of webnews? :)
Xseanzee disco: When do they talk about their supplies?
VardaValar1: Supply comments are slipped in all through the three books
ArPharazonV: including the departure from Rivendell and Lorien
ArPharazonV: *departures
VardaValar1: It appears that only that one time is considered a "good" cremation?
VardaValar1: And more in hindsight
ArPharazonV: well, they didn't want to do it at that time either
Xseanzee disco: Varda, can i ask you a little non sequitor?
Xseanzee disco: It's about Arwen.
ArPharazonV: or did you mean the burning by the Rohirrim?
VardaValar1: The burning by the dwarves
VardaValar1: What about Arwen?
Xseanzee disco: When she dies, is it because of the whole 'elves die when they're severely depressed'? Or was it that she was given a choice to be of the eldar, or the second born, as Elrond and Elros were?
ArPharazonV: yes, if they had the time and the resources, they would have buried their kinsmen instead of burning them
VardaValar1: She chose to be mortal and go with Aragorn beyond Valinor
ArPharazonV: yes, it was a choice she had to make
VardaValar1: She chose to die the way Aragorn chose to die
ArPharazonV: the moment her father left and she remained behind, the choice was made
Xseanzee disco: So she grew old with Aragorn? Or Aragorn got lucky and got old while she stayed 17?
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: He didn't lose his vigor, so she was probably in great shape
Eonwe Valar: hmm, genetics vs nature, or perhaps "grace" vs "nature?" :}
ArPharazonV: man, I want to marry an elf as well :P
VardaValar1: Good luck
Eonwe Valar: better get building a boat :}
VardaValar1: Turgon and Maglor both have WoS news
VardaValar1: Turgon, go ahead
ArPharazonV: Even if I have to search the whole of Arda made round... there's got to be at least one left
Xseanzee disco: So the answer is that Arwen was given the choice that her father and uncle were given?
VardaValar1: Might be a silvan left, try the Wood of Greenleaves or Ithilien
Eonwe Valar: yes, as were Elladan and Elrohir
ArPharazonV: yes, in a way, with a few different details
Xseanzee disco: k
VardaValar1: The three children were supposed to choose whether or not to go when Elrond did
VardaValar1: None of the three went then
ArPharazonV: so, in theory, they'd all become mortal
VardaValar1: Probably
ArPharazonV: and not only Arwen for marrying Aragorn
VardaValar1: Arwen died, so that's definite
Xseanzee disco: I just was confused, because in the movie, it showed her as being still the same Arwen as throughtout LOTR, as it did when she stood over Aragorn's Memorial.
ArPharazonV: pff... the movie...
Xseanzee disco: exactly
VardaValar1: She may have continued to appear young, as the longevity would have been great
ArPharazonV: but she did die not long after Aragorn
Xseanzee disco: Since Elros lived to the ripe age of 500
VardaValar1: Arwen chose to die a year after Aragorn
ArPharazonV: ah she chose to die..
Xseanzee disco: on the hill where they met correct?
VardaValar1: She went to Lothlorien to be with those she usually stayed with, but they had left
ArathornValar: Hmmm... didn't ELrond have the gift of seeing the future... wouldn't he have seen his daughter's fate long ago?
VardaValar1: Yes
Xseanzee disco: HAH! exactly.
Xseanzee disco: So she CHOSE, to die, out of depression? Or suicide?
VardaValar1: Elrond could have seen that there were choices and tried to influence them
VardaValar1: She chose to die, the way Aragorn chose to die
ArPharazonV: she laid herself to rest, not really a classic suicide :)
Xseanzee disco: I thoguht Aragorn was taken into the west w/ Legolas and Gimli
ArPharazonV: unless you do it under water :)
VardaValar1: the classic "turns the face to the wall"
VardaValar1: heh- you've been reading fanfic
Eonwe Valar: She had the same grace as the Numenorean kings: to return her gift of long life when she grew weary of the world, as to not fall "witless and unmanned" from her throne
ArPharazonV: who?
Xseanzee disco: Moi?

VardaValar1: Appendix tells it
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe. Well said
Xseanzee disco: But, when she gave up her 'grace', wouldnt she be left to live out her mortal life?
Eonwe Valar: no
Eonwe Valar: she was already mortal
VardaValar1: I read a fanfic that told the version of Aragorn going with Legolas and Gimli too :)
Xseanzee disco: Hmm, i dont read fanfics
VardaValar1: She was already in her mortal life, and chose to end it
Xseanzee disco: I thought i recalled it in the Appendices
Eonwe Valar: she made the choice when she chose to marry Aragorn that she would be mortal
Eonwe Valar: the "grace" i speak of is the span of life "greater than that or other men"
ArPharazonV: she made the choice when she chose to stay when her father left... is that the same?
Eonwe Valar: *of
Xseanzee disco: But when she was mortal, wouldn't that be it? Wouldn't she have no other choices to make?
Eonwe Valar: Bah, have to go eat :}
VardaValar1: She made the choice, but it went into effect when she did not go with her father
Xseanzee disco: I took 'grace' as being immortality, not longevity.
VardaValar1: I'm eating in front of the comp ; )
Eonwe Valar: going out to eat :} can't make everyone wait :}
VardaValar1: Namarie, Eonwe!
Eonwe Valar: take care everyone, enjoy the discussion :}
ArPharazonV: Namarie
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Enjoy a re-read of the Appendix. It's loaded with tons of stuff
VardaValar1: Just the timeline alone is an eye-opener
VardaValar1: You WoS guys still there?
Xseanzee disco: So, her first choice was to become mortal, and she had another chance to choose the best time to die?
VardaValar1: No
VardaValar1: oboy
VardaValar1: She chose the best time to die, yes
VardaValar1: I should have said yes, pardon
VardaValar1: Misread
ArPharazonV: she would only die if she had lost the reason of her choice to be mortal
Xseanzee disco: oooh
Xseanzee disco: that was wellsaid.
ArPharazonV: so... she could only die when Aragorn was left
Xseanzee disco: but that's in inference?
ArPharazonV: *was dead
VardaValar1: She could die before Aragorn, but didn't
ArPharazonV: wait... what does it say in appendix a...
VardaValar1: Mortality is mortality
Xseanzee disco: ...
Xseanzee disco: So the answer is, both?
VardaValar1: Where I said No, delete and say yes : )
Xseanzee disco: She chose to be mortal, and would age as Elros did, which was over the course of 500 years, but before her time was up, she became severely depressed and died
VardaValar1: aye
Xseanzee disco: But wouldn't she have another reason to live? - Her son Eldarion?
VardaValar1: Eldarion was an adult ready to rule
Xseanzee disco: or whatevr his name was
VardaValar1: Aragorn was leaving (dying) to allow his son to rule
Xseanzee disco: So who did Aragorn leave with?
VardaValar1: Arwen may have had much the same thought and got out of the way
VardaValar1: He died
VardaValar1: Leaving Middle-earth by dying
ArPharazonV: I'm defenitely sure it's somewhere in here...
Xseanzee disco: I could have sworn i read in the Appendices that Aragorn went to Valinor
Xseanzee disco: Alright, thanks for all the opinions, I think I'm gonna take my leave.
VardaValar1: Read Appendix
Xseanzee disco: Namarie.
ArPharazonV: Namarie...
Xseanzee disco: I will
VardaValar1: Trying to look it up
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
ArPharazonV: I'll find it eventually
VardaValar1: Appendix A
ArPharazonV: looking :)
VardaValar1: A (v)
ArPharazonV: looking in A(v) :)
VardaValar1: Aragorn: to me has been given not only a span thrice that ofMiddle-earth, but also the grace to go at my will, and give back thegift."
VardaValar1: "Now, therefore, I will sleep"
bnetValar: ArathornLi-V: exit
ArPharazonV: ah... I can't find it
VardaValar1: Just before II The House of Eorl
ArPharazonV: yes, I have found the parts you were referring too...
ArPharazonV: just not the parts I'm lookin for :)
VardaValar1: ahh, ok
VardaValar1: What are you looking for?
ArPharazonV: I have it!!
VardaValar1: yay!
ArPharazonV: 'But Arwen became as a mortal woman, and yet it was not her lot to die until all that she had gained was lost.'
VardaValar1: I found the Legolas and Gimli sailing, right ahead of timeline
ArPharazonV: that's the sentence I was looking for, though it is not as powerful as I thought :)
VardaValar1: Where is it? Sounded pretty powerful
ArPharazonV: in my version, it's on top of the page where your quotes were at the bottom
VardaValar1: got it
VardaValar1: Paragraph after the wedding
ArPharazonV: right
VardaValar1: Rough
ArPharazonV: right after the departure of Elrond
ArPharazonV: 1 part of a sentence, and yet it stuck with me :)
VardaValar1: Elrond left, and Arwen became as a mortal woman
ArPharazonV: no, one whole sentence...
VardaValar1: JRRT's like that, very strong images and feeling
VardaValar1: Deserves a lot of fan clubs :)
ArPharazonV: worshippers :)
VardaValar1: Wouldn't go quite that far ; )
VardaValar1: I ran into one online once, scared me
ArPharazonV: a real worshipper??
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: Took fiction as truth
ArPharazonV: A Tolkienist :)
VardaValar1: That's a strong mythology
ArPharazonV: new religion: Tolkienism
VardaValar1: The boat trip
VardaValar1: just before dwarf lineage
ArPharazonV: I have imagined myself starting the religion, and spreading it over the globe, even though I don't believe it myself so fanatically
VardaValar1: "But when King Elessar gave up his life Legolas followed at last the desire of his heart and sailed over the Sea"
ArPharazonV: found it
VardaValar1: Here follows one of the last notes in the Red Book
ArPharazonV: well, why did you permit it? ;)
VardaValar1: We have heard tell that Legolas took Gimli Gloin's son with himbecause of their great friendship, greater than any that has beenbetween Elf and Dwarf."
VardaValar1: answering you ;)
ArPharazonV: 'or that the Lords of the West should permit it'
VardaValar1: If this is true, then it is strange indeed: that a Dwarf should be willing to leave Middle-earth for any love,
VardaValar1: or that the Eldar should receive him, or that the Lords of the West should permit it.
VardaValar1: But it is said that Gimli went also out of his desire to se again the beauty of Galadriel;
ArPharazonV: and it may be, that she, being mighty among the Eldar, obtained this grace for him.
ArPharazonV: More cannot be said of this matter.
VardaValar1: and it may be that she, being mighty among the Eldar,
VardaValar1: obtained this grace for him.
VardaValar1: More cannot be said of this matter."
VardaValar1: Heh, we can always say more.
ArPharazonV: we can guess more
ArPharazonV: not the same thing :)
Orodreth V: /me yawns
VardaValar1: You're not asleep yet, Orodreth?
ArPharazonV: perhaps if you'd join, you could make it a little more interesting for yourself :D
Orodreth V: I can't get to sleep.
Orodreth V: :-\

ArPharazonV: my brother's asleep on the couch :-D
Orodreth V: Heh.
VardaValar1: If Aragorn was dead, the reason Legolas set sail, then Aragorn wasn't along
ArPharazonV: unless he robbed Aragorn's grave, and took the body with him :)
Orodreth V: eldarion might not like that.
ArPharazonV: Legolas was Elf, nobody better at sneaking around :)
VardaValar1: Don't tell him
ArPharazonV: except a hobbit maybe :-P
VardaValar1: Unless Aragorn and Arwen faked their deaths, just drugged
VardaValar1: Getting wild here
GwaihirValar: nope, Hobbits weren't as good at sneaking around
ArPharazonV: like Romeo and Juliet?
Orodreth V: Bob Parker is also Morgoth.
VardaValar1: Juliet anyway
VardaValar1: hehe
GwaihirValar: Bob Parker?
VardaValar1: Bob Barker, isn't it
GwaihirValar: ya
Orodreth V: Guy who does Price is Right.
Orodreth V: No idea.
GwaihirValar: Barker
VardaValar1: Heard that rumor too ; )
Orodreth V: I remember that conversation..
Orodreth V: I think it was with Osse.
Chugin Chub has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Thror!
ArPharazonV: just in time :-D
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: I think he was the culprit, aye
Orodreth V: First person he called down was Sauron.
Orodreth V: Next probally Ungoliant.
VardaValar1: We were just into deaths, cremation. Aragorn and Arwen, Legolas and Gimli sailing
VardaValar1: That of course led to Bob Barker
VardaValar1: Hey, this is the guild
ArPharazonV: and Legolas sailing away with Aragorn's body stolen out of his grave
VardaValar1: which was merely drugged, naturally
Chugin Chub: hello hello
Orodreth V: Do any of you know if there was any mention of Gandalf's power in relation to Sauron's?
VardaValar1: Hello
VardaValar1: In Middle-earth or in Valinor?
ArPharazonV: they both were Maiar, does that help?
ArPharazonV: :)
VardaValar1: Middle-earth, Gandalf's was dropped drastically
Orodreth V: Middle-Earth, Third Age
Chugin Chub: cant stay got to make a call but i am here noted i hope :)
Orodreth V: Assmuming he had access to all of it.
VardaValar1: Sauron's was only down a bit from the Ring, and more from evil
VardaValar1: Gandalf as an Istar was not allowed access to all of it
VardaValar1: Even physically he was made an old man
ArPharazonV: having a mortal body didn't help either
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VardaValar1: He was meant to guide, not lead
ArPharazonV: yes, I have heard some questions about that multiple times:
Orodreth V: Yes..but I'm looking at it
VardaValar1: He had not been measured agaonst all things
VardaValar1: Then spill it : )
Orodreth V: like he disobeyed the Valar
Orodreth V: And took on Suaron mano a mano.
Orodreth V: *Sauron
ArPharazonV: Why did Gandalf not use magic powers at Helm's Deep or Minas Tirith? Fireballs and stuff
Orodreth V: Would he win?
ArPharazonV: lightning bolts
VardaValar1: As the White, Gandalf had more power to make up for the loss of the other Istari
VardaValar1: Gandalf might do that if the Ring took him over
VardaValar1: He would collect armies
VardaValar1: He might win that way
ArPharazonV: Gandalf versus Sauron 1 vs 1
Orodreth V: But without the Ring he could not take Sauron?
GwaihirValar: In straight power, I don't think Gandalf could overtake Sauron no...
VardaValar1: Gandalf was still stuck with an old man's body
Orodreth V: I could have sworn there was a passag in TT somewhere saything that he could have.
GwaihirValar: he could barely overpower the Lord of the Nazgul... and I doubt that the Lord of the Nazgul was more powerful than Sauron
VardaValar1: Sauron did have a body, not just an eyeball
VardaValar1: Aye, Gwaihir
VardaValar1: Then find it and quote it
VardaValar1: We've been doing that a while : )
Orodreth V: If my LotR book was, er, whole, I would.
VardaValar1: So Gandalf would have to do more than poke him in the Eye
GwaihirValar: hehe
ArPharazonV: yes, but the Witch-King could not be slain by a man, and if anything, I think it was a man's body Gandalf had
VardaValar1: The lidless eye may well have been the palantir of Minas Ithil/ Minas Morgul
VardaValar1: Aye, Pharazon
VardaValar1: Not even an elf body
GwaihirValar: who said that passage though
GwaihirValar: it was an Elf who stated that... Elves ARE fallable
VardaValar1: Glorfindel's prophecy
ArPharazonV: think it's a bit older than that though :)
VardaValar1: Glorfindel had died and could have been told by Mandos himself
GwaihirValar: it could have been said for the purpose of making him overconfident
GwaihirValar: it is possible
GwaihirValar: but it also could have been a ploy, nobody knows for sure...
VardaValar1: Some had foresight
ArPharazonV: or was it actually Glorfindel who brought the prophecy in the world?
VardaValar1: Elrond and Aragorn
VardaValar1: We know the prophecy from Glorfindel
GwaihirValar: Glorfindel was the one who stated it first, it was not just him parroting something siad elsewhere
VardaValar1: As far as we know, that was indeed the first mention
ArPharazonV: did he not quote some wise-woman from 2000 years earlier or something?
VardaValar1: Shall we loo
k together once again?
VardaValar1: Worked well last time!
ArPharazonV: lets try
ArPharazonV: 2251 SA: About this time the Nazgul first appeared... 1 question solved, when did they arise?
VardaValar1: nice : )
VardaValar1: Hard not to side-track reading
ArPharazonV: The lord of that land was known as the Witch-King, but it was not known until later that he was indeed the chief of the Ringwraiths, who came north with the purpose of destroying the Dunedain in Arnor, seeing hope in their disunion,
ArPharazonV: while Gondor was strong.
ArPharazonV: cool detail:
ArPharazonV: some say that the mound in which Frodo was imprisoned was the mound of the last prince of Cardolan :)
GwaihirValar: makes sense
ArPharazonV: ...and they were afraid of the Witch-King, who (they said) could make frost or thaw at his will.
ArPharazonV: hm... chapter the siege of gondor
VardaValar1: Interesting they don't send Glorfindel for the Elf representative
ArPharazonV: Gandalf: 'And if words of old be true, not by the hand of man shall he fall, and hidden from the Wise is the doom that awaits him.
ArPharazonV: '
VardaValar1: Aye, that was one mention, very good!
VardaValar1: I seem to have passed mine somehow, re-tracking
VardaValar1: words of old
ArPharazonV: Anyway, Tolkien's first purpose was just that, to send Glorfindel with the fellowship
ArPharazonV: see: Return of the Shadow, histories part 6
GwaihirValar: then he wouldn't have been left out of the movie! ;)
VardaValar1: and what happened? : )
VardaValar1: hehe, aye Gwaihir
ArPharazonV: what changed his mind I don't know, I just know Glorfindel was there WAY before Arwen...
VardaValar1: hehe
GwaihirValar: well of course I... err my former self, was
ArPharazonV: so Arwen should not have pushed out Glorfindel :)
VardaValar1: Legolas of Gondolin was a contemporary of Glorfindel's, scoutingfor the refugees. Same time as Glorfindel brought up the rear and wasin his mutually lethal battle with a balrog
ArPharazonV: The other way around wouldn't have worked out either, I can't see Aragorn marrying a male elf :)
VardaValar1: Read more fanfic ;) But I agree
ArPharazonV: what?? Aragorn and Legolas or something?
Orodreth V: And more.
VardaValar1: Let's forget that
Orodreth V: You really don't want to know.
ArPharazonV: but do you know how I found that quote? ;-)
VardaValar1: I try to avoid slash, but it keeps sneaking into fan pages, ick
ErestorV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: how
VardaValar1: Aiya Erestor!
ErestorV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ErestorV: A
VardaValar1: Welcome back from work : )
ErestorV: just in from work
ErestorV: you are soooo smart
ErestorV: hehe
ArPharazonV: anyway, a similar statement is made in the exact same point in the movie, which I just saw a few weeks ago :)
VardaValar1: Met you beforer
ErestorV: :)
VardaValar1: I almost got to see it again, but we saw 50 First Dates instead.
ErestorV: did you like 50?
VardaValar1: Yes
ErestorV: cool
VardaValar1: Was not just a comedy
VardaValar1: Surprised me
ErestorV: how so?
VardaValar1: and Sam was in it ;)
VardaValar1: I don't want to ruin it for you
ErestorV: Cool!!!
ErestorV: ok
VardaValar1: Dan Akroyd makes a good doctor
VardaValar1: Looking for quote where Glorfindel says Witch-king can't be slain by hand of man
ErestorV: hehehe he makes a good many things.
ErestorV: Sill
VardaValar1: Pharazon found the quote when Gandalf said it
ArPharazonV: probably in the council of Elrond, or the Flight to the Ford
VardaValar1: You get to help us dig
Orodreth V: I saw a old movie that Eilija Wood (sp?) played in a few wekksago. Final Impact I think.
VardaValar1: Aye, that's where I've been digging
Orodreth V: *weeks ago
VardaValar1: Elijah was in Oliver Twist as the Artful Dodger too
GwaihirValar: did you check Sil and UT... or the Tale of Years?
VardaValar1: I'm in FotR
VardaValar1: You guys get to check those
VardaValar1: but I keep side-tracking ;)
ArPharazonV: m... Silm could be a nice one
ArPharazonV: of the rings of power
VardaValar1: Frodo seeing Gandalf at a distance...
ErestorV: quing quang quong
GwaihirValar: I can't check either Sil or UT... but I can look in the Tale of Years...
VardaValar1: Go for it
VardaValar1: and any interesting side-tracks
VardaValar1: um, that could take a while though
ArPharazonV: looking in the Silm...
VardaValar1: Even in a houseful of elves, Legolas's face is referred to as "fair"
GwaihirValar: not in the Tale of Years
VardaValar1: Maybe the Valar really did give up on Faramir's going and finally gave one dream to Boromir
ArPharazonV: and at point he immediately came :)
VardaValar1: Denethor let him
VardaValar1: Faramir was blocked
VardaValar1: I'll bet Faramir would have counseled that Frodo could go ahead with Sam, not enough conflict for the story
ArPharazonV: that's why they changed it in the movie :)
VardaValar1: So why was Legolas chosen instead of Glorifindel, who was originally planned?
Orodreth V: More the merrier?
VardaValar1: hehe
ErestorV: is it in the lines of kings
VardaValar1: How about that he represented all of the elf kindreds?
ErestorV: i do not have a copy of LotR
ArPharazonV: hm... of the war with Angmar: 'And it came to pass... that the Men of Westernesse, the Dunedain of the North, became divided ... and their foes devoured them one by one.'
ArPharazonV: not much about Angmar in the Silm :)
VardaValar1: He was part Noldor, Sindar, and lived with the Silvan. Maybe mother was silvan?
Orodreth V: Hmm.
Orodreth V: I found my .pdf version of LotR.
ArPharazonV: Legolas was son of Thranduil, wasn't he Silvan?
VardaValar1: Thranduil was king of silvans, but not Silvan himself
Orodreth V: And all I found so far was that Gandalf could NOT have turned the Orthnac-stone from Sauron.
VardaValar1: Thranduil called himself Sindarin
ArPharazonV: oh, all right
Orodreth V: He COULD have resisted Sauron though.
VardaValar1: but Thranduil was also part Noldor
VardaValar1: Oropher, Thranduil's father, hated the Noldor and didn't like to admit they were in the blood line
ArPharazonV: nope, 'Angmar' not in the Silm index...
VardaValar1: and they had to have Vanyar, since Thranduil was blonde
VardaValar1: That covers all the lines
ArPharazonV: where is that all said Varda?
VardaValar1: oboy
ArPharazonV: about Oropher at least?
VardaValar1: See my article in Encyc for refs : )
Orodreth V: Tolkien was kinda iffy on the rulers and lineage of said rulers of Lothlorien and Greenwood.
Orodreth V: Well, the rulers are set for Greenwood.
VardaValar1: How's that for getting lazy
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Orodreth V: But how said rulers got there, why, and what their lineage is is iffy.
Orodreth V: I swear, there's got to be 20 versions of how Galadriel and Celeborn met. ;-)
VardaValar1: That blonde hair pretty well ties it together, in Thranduil.
ArPharazonV: ah, of course, of Galad and Celeb in UT...
VardaValar1: About right : )
VardaValar1: Or getting the Elessar stone, that has at least two
ArPharazonV: but my favorite 'vague' legend will always be Amroth and Nimrodel
VardaValar1: Why favorite? Good one alright
ArPharazonV: I don't know...
ArPharazonV: Something makes it stand above the others, just can't pinpoint what
ArPharazonV: It's vague enough to use your own imagination, and yet so given that your imagination will always point in the same direction
ArPharazonV: in my case, then :)
VardaValar1: Always a nice touch
Musics4Me2 has entered the room.
Musics4Me2: Whoa! the bridge is STILL up :)
ArPharazonV: and of course the whole story around it, about the rulers of Lothlorien, and the lineage of Imrahil
VardaValar1: surprise : )
VardaValar1: Aye, much is touched
ErestorV: found it
ArPharazonV: almost a connection between Finwe and Imrahil :)
ErestorV: did anyone else find it?
ErestorV: the quote about the witchking
ArPharazonV: where??
ErestorV: ok
ErestorV: apendex a
ErestorV: paperback
ErestorV: pp 412
ArPharazonV: not here...
VardaValar1: I thought they
were all destroyed in the flood"
VardaValar1: You cannot destroy Ringwraiths like that"
VardaValar1: The power of their master is in them, and they stand or fall by him."
ErestorV: "but glorfindle, looking into the gathering dark said: Do not pursue him! He will not return to this land. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall."
ErestorV: hehehehe
ErestorV: one for the elves
GwaihirValar: Yup... that's former me... in all my f ormer wisdom..
VardaValar1: Appendix A again? : )
ErestorV: yup
ErestorV: hehe
VardaValar1: Thanks!
GwaihirValar: everything's in appendix A
ArPharazonV: where where?
ErestorV: got to go
GwaihirValar: haven't you learned that yet? ;)
VardaValar1: So soon
ErestorV: yeah
VardaValar1: Thank you for your help
ArPharazonV: Namarie
ErestorV: i am looking to buy a car....
ArPharazonV: where in Appendix A?
ErestorV: pp 412
VardaValar1: The other half of everything is in the Council of Elrond
ErestorV: paperback ecition
ErestorV: edition
ArPharazonV: not in my book, what section?
ArPharazonV: i, ii, iii, iv, v
VardaValar1: I have several paperback editions, all with diff page numbers
ErestorV: Gondor and the Heirs of Anarion
ErestorV: line of kings like i said
ErestorV: hehe
GwaihirValar: *points out a new name we can add to the names section*
GwaihirValar: a new female name
GwaihirValar: 'Dis'
VardaValar1: ahhh
ErestorV: where do you think Elrond gets all his information?
ArPharazonV: Dis, the Dwarf :)
VardaValar1: Hard to get it out of my head as a name of Pluto
GwaihirValar: aye, Dis the Dwarf
VardaValar1: True
ErestorV: well i realy wish i could stay.
ErestorV: i realy like looking up quots with everyone....
ErestorV: Namaore
ErestorV: Namarie
ErestorV has left the room.
VardaValar1: namarie
ArPharazonV: nam
GwaihirValar: that's really not a fun name for a child to have... 'Dis the Dwarf'... sounds too much like anti-Dwarf sentiment
VardaValar1: lol
ArPharazonV: yes, of course! Glorfindel!
Orodreth V: "And my I introduse my wife, Dis the Dwatf."
Orodreth V: (sniggers)
Orodreth V: *Dearf
Orodreth V: *Dwarf
ArPharazonV: :)
VardaValar1: Elves will have to work to keep a straight face
ArPharazonV: Glad I'm not an Elf :)
Orodreth V: Most definiatly.
Orodreth V: Men will have to work harder.
Orodreth V: :-)
GwaihirValar: Eagles are too impertinent to work on keeping a straight face :)
ArPharazonV: men don't need to keep a straight face :-D
Orodreth V: I'm sure, of course, the the Aniur will have no problem though.
GwaihirValar: we'd just start chuckling and then oblige the Dwarf... saying something like... 'if you insist... she's the ugliest darn Dwarf I've ever seen!'
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ArPharazonV: Men are expected to be insolent :)
VardaValar1: Aiya, White Demon Balrog : )
Orodreth V: Ahaha.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Orodreth V: Aiya
raukojag: Heyas
ArPharazonV: But I have to go, already late
Orodreth V: Ok.
ArPharazonV: sorry, see ya all next week
Orodreth V: Namarie
VardaValar1: It was great
ArPharazonV: Namarie
VardaValar1: Thanks for all your input
VardaValar1: Namarie
ArPharazonV: So it was
ArPharazonV: Namarie...
GwaihirValar: farewell! :)
ArPharazonV has left the room.
Orodreth V: Varda, you have anything to say about the storylines for Elvondel so far?
Orodreth V: Or you, Gwaihir?
VardaValar1: What is it so far?
GwaihirValar: I haven't followed it...
VardaValar1: Just heard a couple of possibles
VardaValar1: Having enough trouble with the one for Meo! :)
Orodreth V: The most basic outlines possible:
Orodreth V: Bother.

Orodreth V: Won't copy.
VardaValar1: Before, during, or after the War of the Ring?
raukojag: sorry, having some troubles. I need to go, stopped in to say hi! namarie all
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VardaValar1: Namarie
Orodreth V: Ere/Hills - Moria(clear), Lor/Mir - Mir(clear), Gon/Rho - Umb(clear)
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Orodreth V: Those are the first quests.
Orodreth V: Mor - East(tell), Mir - East(look), Umb - SHar(look)
Orodreth V: Then those will be the main ones..
Orodreth V: Have no clue what comes after that, but it won't be the end.
Orodreth V: :-)
VardaValar1: Places you're going?
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Orodreth V: Yes.
Orodreth V: We're going to do it MMO style:
Orodreth V: The first release willb e small, and patches will add areas and quests
Orodreth V: And we're hoping for alot of player interaction.
Orodreth V: I plan to set my server up as a RP server.
Orodreth V: Then when we have enough people, we'll actually create the story as we play. :-)
VardaValar1: You know when in time?
VardaValar1: Before, during, after War of the Ring?
Orodreth V: After
Orodreth V: Sorry.
Orodreth V: This is set some time after Aragorn dies.
VardaValar1: Thanks
VardaValar1: Thror and Oropher say hi from
Orodreth V: Hello!
TurgonjustTurgon: hi
VardaValar1: Before Legolas and Gimli set sail?
Orodreth V: After.
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Orodreth V: It's some time after. 50 years or so after Aragorn's death, I think.
VardaValar1: How did you pick that time?
VardaValar1: Getting away from known characters on purpose?
Orodreth V: Yes.
TurgonjustTurgon: also leaves us more room to create a world of our own as we move east further along the storyline
VardaValar1: Then you have little need of what I know :)
Orodreth V: Well, what do you THINK of it? I value your opinion. :-)
VardaValar1: Of what?
TurgonjustTurgon: WE value your opinion :)
VardaValar1: Thanks, now I have to find out your story and make an opinion : )
TurgonjustTurgon: hehe :)
Orodreth V: Of just what little we have.. Dwarves of Erebor and the Iron Hills go to clear Moria
VardaValar1: It seems to be traveling in a time fifty years after Aragorn's death
VardaValar1: They took that long to do it?
Orodreth V: Elves of Lorien and Mirkwood begin to clear Mirkwood.
Orodreth V: Hmm.
Orodreth V: You have a point.
Orodreth V: Let's see here.
VardaValar1: They took their time too
MaglorV: lol
Orodreth V: Aragorn lived a goodly amout of time after the fall of Sauron..
VardaValar1: Since Mirkwood was pretty well cleared by end of WotR
TurgonjustTurgon: well, you could say that all of their people were ravaged by the WotR
VardaValar1: Celeborn and Thranduil met in Mirkwood
TurgonjustTurgon: spiders were still there
VardaValar1: then renamed it
Orodreth V: So it's probally best to set it around 20 years after the WotR.
VardaValar1: Hard to find all those spider eggs!
Orodreth V: Merry and Pippen would still be arond, no?
Orodreth V: *around
VardaValar1: They died after Aragorn, I think. Set to either side of his body
VardaValar1: maybe before, need to check
VardaValar1: Brain died
Orodreth V: So we don't get rid of many..only Frodo, Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf, really.
Orodreth V: At least that gosh-darn meddling Wizzard is gone.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Might have Radagast, Pallando, Alatar
Orodreth V: Yes.
Orodreth V: The Blue Wizards can be met in the East, I think.
TurgonjustTurgon: oh, would there still be Noldorin around in ME?
VardaValar1: Silvans
VardaValar1: Noldor pretty well left. Celeborn last one, I think
VardaValar1: Blue Wizards had cults in the East, most likely, aye
Orodreth V: Elrond's sons?
TurgonjustTurgon: he left with Galadriel I thought...?
VardaValar1: Celeborn left later
TurgonjustTurgon: oh well, same thing :)
Orodreth V: Celeborn not 1337 enough to go on the White Ship. ;-)
VardaValar1: Aye, Celeborn was lonely without Galadriel, stayed in Rivendell with Elladan and Elrohir a while
TurgonjustTurgon: guess there goes my Cala and Mori Quendi race differantiation :)
TurgonjustTurgon: seems we still have a lot of story-crafting to do before we can get a solid storyline :)
Orodreth V: The Elves in Lorien hung around for some time.
Orodreth V: Not long, but some time.
TurgonjustTurgon: not long enough
TurgonjustTurgon: Lorien was deserted when Arwen went there after Aragorn died
VardaValar1: Orodreth, PS-Viola is asking for you in Valar. What should I tell him about when you'll be on?
VardaValar1: Aye, Turgon
Orodreth V: Bother.
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Orodreth V: I was so hoping to have two factions for each race..
VardaValar1: heh - just us left
VardaValar1: Why not?
Orodreth V: Looks like Elves will be stuck with one.
VardaValar1: You can have silvans of Mirkwood and of Ithilien
TurgonjustTurgon: are there any left in Ithilien then?
VardaValar1: Legolas ran the bunch in Ithilien, Thranduil in the Greenwood
TurgonjustTurgon: I thought that region was under the stewardship of Faramir?
VardaValar1: Legolas took a bunch of the elves from Mirkwood and started them there
VardaValar1: It was
Orodreth V: Yes..but that's like saying we can have some of Dol amroth and some of Minas Tirth. :-P
VardaValar1: But Legolas was there too
TurgonjustTurgon: no there is a point Oro :)
VardaValar1: He got along fine with Faramir and Aragorn
TurgonjustTurgon: we could do that
VardaValar1: Legolas said they would bless the woods
VardaValar1: He found Ithilien beautiful
TurgonjustTurgon: dwarves of Ered Luin and Iron Hills, or Erebor and Iron Hills, or whatever combo there is to make
Orodreth V: How abaout Dwarves of the Glittering Caves and of Erebor?
TurgonjustTurgon: Rohirrim and Gondorians
TurgonjustTurgon: I dont think the dwarves made any permanent abode there
Orodreth V: Yes.
Orodreth V: Gimli made a settlement there.
TurgonjustTurgon: at least not in great numbers as Erebor or Iron Hills
Orodreth V: Under leave from Eomer.
VardaValar1: Gimli was the Lord of the Glittering Caves
Orodreth V: Those things probally extend for many miles underground.
Orodreth V: Plenty of room for a large settlement.
Orodreth V: Dwarves of the Glitterling caves and Dwarves of the North, then?
TurgonjustTurgon: well, how about this:
TurgonjustTurgon: the "regular" dwarves, and those that unite to take back Khazad?
TurgonjustTurgon: after taking Khazad, they would become the Khazadumians )
TurgonjustTurgon: :)*
Orodreth V: Dwarves of NW M-E are united under the Longbeards.
VardaValar1: Should be plenty of dwarves and Hobbits left at that time
Orodreth V: Most of them ARE Longbeards.
VardaValar1: Gimli is of the Longbeards
Orodreth V: Yes.
TurgonjustTurgon: we intend to leave the hobbits out of it for a while
Orodreth V: As is Thror, Dain, and all that.
Orodreth V: So no need for 'reg' Dwarves.
Orodreth V: but I'd like distinctions within races besides classes so we can have super-varity.
TurgonjustTurgon: of course they would be there, but not exactly in the story
VardaValar1: Leave out hobbits? Sacrilege
VardaValar1: They can be archers maybe
VardaValar1: scouts
TurgonjustTurgon: well, we all know that apart from the occasional adventurer hobbits are quite content where they are
Orodreth V: Like, Sindarian Archers hit for more then Noldarian Archers
TurgonjustTurgon: that why I think storywise it isnt a good idea to start off with them right away
Orodreth V: but Noldarian Swordusers hit for more then Sindarian Swordusers.
VardaValar1: What Noldorins?
TurgonjustTurgon: there are virtually none left... :)
TurgonjustTurgon: anyways, my plan is to implement some hobbits as merchants or the occasional quest giver at first
TurgonjustTurgon: later on in the story, some events lead to the hobbit people rise up and become somewhat more..... warlike
VardaValar1: The hobbits became more warlike after Saruman messed with the Shire
TurgonjustTurgon: everything seemed to be settling back to normal though
TurgonjustTurgon: especially ater Aragorn declared the Shire forbidden for all
VardaValar1: But the hobbits could leave
Orodreth V: Well, my example was to point out how to differentiate within races to give more options.
VardaValar1: After a taste of fighting, some would surely have considered more excitement
VardaValar1: Especially Tooks and Brandybucks
Orodreth V: *cough* TOOKS *cough*
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Someone needs to tell Fangorn that trees walk by the Shire
TurgonjustTurgon: there goes my carefully argumented story lol
Orodreth V: So what do we have?
TurgonjustTurgon: shattered in a matter of seconds :)
Orodreth V: Ith/Mirk clear out Mirk
TurgonjustTurgon: *bows*
Orodreth V: Rohan/Gond attack Umbar
Orodreth V: And then..some mess of Dwarves clear out Moria
Orodreth V: How about Elves and Dwarves have just one 'group'
Orodreth V: While Men have two?
TurgonjustTurgon: tooks / brandys go north and get some proof of the walking trees (entwives?) and report to Fangorn
Orodreth V: It IS the Age of Men, afterall.
VardaValar1: Mirk will probably continue to have baddies, just not as organized as before
TurgonjustTurgon: aye Varda
VardaValar1: Trying to help give you two, but if you don't want two, we can work up a case for one! : )
TurgonjustTurgon: we will prolly leave some baddies in cleared areas, so newbies can get their xp as well
Orodreth V: So we have Silvian Elves clearing out Mirkwood, and Dwarves of Durin clearing out Moria.
Orodreth V: And the Rohrirrim and Gondorians making war upon Umbar.
Orodreth V: Yes. I know exactly how to do that.
Orodreth V: And I plan on (in some parts) having a limited number of enemies.
VardaValar1: So Umbar got bad again? Maybe that was due to cultists
Orodreth V: That is, not infinite.
VardaValar1: The two sets of cultists ought to give you plenty of baddies :)
Orodreth V: Umbar was not under the control of Gondor at the end of the 4th age..
Orodreth V: At least as I understand it.
VardaValar1: And they would be coming up against those in Ithlien
TurgonjustTurgon: aye
VardaValar1: Aragorn came through Umbar with the dead. Rocked their boats
TurgonjustTurgon: he didnt come through Umbar as I remember
TurgonjustTurgon: just got all their ships and such :)
TurgonjustTurgon: Umbar would be in a very weakened state after the war, that much is true
Orodreth V: I'm waffling on this decision:
TurgonjustTurgon: anyways, we intend to have the storyline go more fluently by having some of the major quests interdependant
Orodreth V: To make the Hobbits a 'bonus' class, where they don't have real fight-the-baddie quests,
TurgonjustTurgon: or at least I do
Orodreth V: but stuff
Orodreth V: Look for Entwives..
TurgonjustTurgon: like aid the other folks in fight the baddies :)
VardaValar1: Umbar might have rebuilt, especially if Aragorn is kept busy elsewhere
Orodreth V: Ect, ect.
TurgonjustTurgon: aye Varda
Orodreth V: Aye.
VardaValar1: I still like a few hobbit archers, but it's your game :)
TurgonjustTurgon: that why I want to make some quests interdependant
Orodreth V: They would be a Golden Soul class only.
TurgonjustTurgon: like humans cant go beyond Umbar because the threat of Moria is too close to them
TurgonjustTurgon: so Moria has to be cleared before they can move on
Orodreth V: Well, and Valar members.
Orodreth V: :-)
VardaValar1: A quest to go from the Old Forest to Fangorn to talk to Treebeard could get hairy. Ask for some warriors to help
VardaValar1: Could make a good mixed group quest
Orodreth V: Classmorphing gives some very interesting possibilities.
TurgonjustTurgon: classmorphing...?
Orodreth V: It is possible to change the class of chaacters.
Orodreth V: *characters
TurgonjustTurgon: well, of course other classes can help with quests and stuff
TurgonjustTurgon: from say an archer to a fighter midgame?
Orodreth V: So we can make it so that one character for a player may be every class at some point!
Orodreth V: Yes.
Orodreth V: Or from Dwarf to Elf
TurgonjustTurgon: as long as its from the same race Id say
VardaValar1: Sounds like a mess
Orodreth V: My idea is this:
VardaValar1: Maybe like going from bow to long knives
Orodreth V: First you have to clear out Moria to a given level.
Orodreth V: Then you are classmorphed into an Elf and do that.
Orodreth V: Then you're morphed to a Human, ect, ect.
VardaValar1: Um
TurgonjustTurgon: too complicated
VardaValar1: I wouldn't care for that
VardaValar1: No excuse for it
Orodreth V: Sounds good to me. :-P But hey, I'm just the coder..
TurgonjustTurgon: I think it would rather screw up the game and storyline, squze the wording
VardaValar1: Nice to know you can
VardaValar1: Might be possible for an Ainur in the story line, but they didn't seem to be into it much either
Orodreth V: How about this:
Orodreth V: You do that (the first bit of each race's quest)
Orodreth V: Then choose from there what you wish to be.
Orodreth V: So you get a little demo of what each race is like.
VardaValar1: Call it a demo character?
VardaValar1: If accounts allow, I think most MMORPGers like to try all characters at some point
Orodreth V: Yes.
Orodreth V: This would give them a chance to right from the start.
Orodreth V: Then whichever they like the best, they choose.
VardaValar1: So they couldn't keep a continuing character of each type?
TurgonjustTurgon: and that all chars trying is why I want the quests interdependant as well :)
Orodreth V: Each time they start a new character, they get the choice to have it be a 'demo' or to outright choose each race.
Orodreth V: They could.
VardaValar1: Maglor's new WoW page with flash:
Orodreth V: I'm gonna work on the very start of Elvondel..
TurgonjustTurgon: Ive seen it, its cool
Orodreth V: Time to con someone into making some nice graphics for me.
Orodreth V: ;-)
VardaValar1: heh
VardaValar1: Good luck
VardaValar1: Eonwe's been trying to do that for a while
TurgonjustTurgon: problem is though, with flash, and geocities, the site will tend to be down a lot due to "overmaximamizing alloted data transfer"
VardaValar1: Oh the joy
Orodreth V: What 2 colors do you think represent LotR the best?
TurgonjustTurgon: green and white
TurgonjustTurgon: White for the Tree
TurgonjustTurgon: Green for Rohan
Orodreth V: Green works for Elves too.
Orodreth V: Actaully, I shouldn't've said LotR.
VardaValar1: If it matters, we have a guild mark for Dark Age of Camelot, white tree
VardaValar1: Can check it out
Orodreth V: I should have said the whole of the mythos of Ea.
VardaValar1: Sort of trying to run it across the board
VardaValar1: Elatan dr
ew it
Orodreth V: That two colors represent Tolkien's mythos the best?
VardaValar1: Green goes with the love of living things that the good guys tend to have
VardaValar1: The tree
Orodreth V: That=What
Orodreth V: Green and white still?
Orodreth V: and I'd love to see that, Varda
TurgonjustTurgon: I think she means that one, but not certain
VardaValar1: Aye, that one
ErestorV has entered the room.
ErestorV: IIIIII'MMMMMM back
VardaValar1: Welcome back
ErestorV: thanks
Orodreth V: Is that the only guild logoish thing we have? I never actually looked for whatever reason.
Orodreth V: Becasue I'd like to put it on the title screen for Elvondel if it is..
ErestorV: just a test
VardaValar1: Elatan made more. Ever look at the Annals of Arda
VardaValar1: Please take a look
VardaValar1: His crossed swords and shield for Valar
VardaValar1: We also have words in a logo by Eowyn for the Valar Guild
VardaValar1: main index
Orodreth V: I've gone to Annals more then once, but never saw that.
Orodreth V: Ohh, yes.
Orodreth V: Time to explore. :-)
ErestorV: Varda do you have that link for the .... what was it?... the new game site. the one you showed last week.
ErestorV: i was going to put the link in favs. but did forgot to do it.
VardaValar1: I didn't show you that one actually, it was Arathorn
VardaValar1: It's on the transcript
ErestorV: last weeks?
VardaValar1: MeO
ErestorV: ok
VardaValar1: Is that the one you want?
ErestorV: yes
VardaValar1: That's on our index
ErestorV: which index?
VardaValar1: Guild index
ErestorV: ok
ErestorV: thanks
ErestorV: i'll check
ErestorV: :)
VardaValar1: Go to and hit the ValarGuild
VardaValar1: or Gaming link :)
ErestorV: thanks
VardaValar1: At the bottom of our MeO page is link to official site
VardaValar1: Go to Communities, search Valar Guild
ErestorV: k
VardaValar1: I give more info than people can stand, forgive me :)
ErestorV: hey... I love your infor ;)
VardaValar1: Kind guy, thanks : )
Orodreth V: Hmm..can't find the crossed swords.
VardaValar1: They have a shield in the middle
ErestorV: found it thanks
VardaValar1: Ack! To quote Arathorn. He's changed the start
VardaValar1: Ah good :)
VardaValar1: Do you have a name for MeOing, Erestor/
VardaValar1: ?
VardaValar1: Maybe still in the Glittering Caves. Can't believe he dropped so much of his graphics from Annals
VardaValar1: There it is :)
VardaValar1: More nifty shields at the bottom
Orodreth V: Oooh.
Orodreth V: Pretty.
Orodreth V: But I think I'll have to stuck with the tree.
VardaValar1: Tree is on it too
VardaValar1: There's also a shield at the bottom without the swords
Orodreth V: Now I need to find his e-mail and ask him if I can use it. :-)
VardaValar1: He does the Member page with everyone's email
VardaValar1: He is called Amillo (his old name) and Elatan (his new name)
VardaValar1: Confused yet? : )
ErestorV: restarting comp. brb
ErestorV has left the room.
Orodreth V: Bother.
VardaValar1: heh
Orodreth V: won't send mail from my new address..guess I need to use yahoo
ErestorV has entered the room.
ErestorV: back
VardaValar1: ouch
VardaValar1: Aiyata :)
ErestorV: Aiya
ErestorV: hehe
ErestorV: afk
VardaValar1: Oh my look! A chat room!
Orodreth V: Wow!
ErestorV: chatty chatty chatty
Orodreth V: Well, I've got the intro screen. Just need his approval to add the Valar logo on. :-)
VardaValar1: He went on a two week vacation to Norway, but he'll be back
Orodreth V: I can wait, hehe.
VardaValar1: :)
Orodreth V: Gonna just add the screen without the logo. Easy enough to chage after.
VardaValar1: I expect he'll be flattered. Maybe you can get him to tell which name he wants on the credits
VardaValar1: True
Orodreth V: Ahah.
Orodreth V: Then you all can berate him for choosing name x over name y. I see though your tricks! ;-)
VardaValar1: Actually I'm confused
VardaValar1: He says he changed to Elatan but his pages all still say Amillo
Orodreth V: About?
Orodreth V: Lol
Orodreth V: Yea.
Orodreth V: Webmaster e-mail from Annalas is
TurgonjustTurgon: *yawn*
TurgonjustTurgon: before I head off to bed, one final question
TurgonjustTurgon: did you already have someone send you the transcript, or want the entire thing from start til end?
TurgonjustTurgon: which is now :)
VardaValar1: I"ve been saving , and had two emailed to me alreasy
VardaValar1: already
TurgonjustTurgon: ok
VardaValar1: Thanks for the offer
TurgonjustTurgon: that leaves me to say Namarie and til we meet next time
VardaValar1: So often we crash, so it's good to have backup!
VardaValar1: May Irmo send you pleasant dreams!
TurgonjustTurgon: hope he does, I can use em
VardaValar1: :)
TurgonjustTurgon: namarie
TurgonjustTurgon has left the room.
Orodreth V: Naamrie!
Orodreth V: Bother.
ErestorV: well i think i am going to try and lvl up my char.
ErestorV: Namaire
Orodreth V: On WoS, right? >.>
VardaValar1: Good plan. What level?
VardaValar1: heh
ErestorV: i'll check
VardaValar1: I'm wrestling webwork
VardaValar1: I think you were 67 last I saw
ErestorV: my zon is lvl 72
VardaValar1: Good heavens!
ErestorV: my latest durid is lvl 38
VardaValar1: So jotted
Orodreth V: I really should get back to leveling in WoS. Meh.
ErestorV: i have a new necro at lvl 5 i plan on using him as a mule
VardaValar1: Go for it, Orodreth :)
Orodreth V: Elvondel and BW keep me though.
ErestorV: well i am off to play
VardaValar1: Hope he's strong enough
VardaValar1: Namarie!
ErestorV: Namarie
ErestorV has left the room.