Valar Guild

August 8, 2004 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST (GMT-5)

Back to News page 
transcript from Arathorn-(V), Ar-Pharazon-(V), Farmer Maggot-(V), Varda-(Valar)

Before-meeting
Meeting Begins
Membership
Web:
    Tolkien Encyclopedia
    Tolkien Quotes - Farmer Maggot-V
Gaming
    BZFlag
    DAoC
    D2X Ladder 2
    Doom 3
    MeO
Tolkien:
    Quotes
    Unfinished Stories, New Shadow
    Numenoreans and Atlantis
    Maiar in Middle-earth
    Fouth Wall
After-meeting

Before-meeting:
transcript from Varda:
You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."

VardaValar1: Aiya
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar
ArPharazonV: Manenna?
VardaValar1: eh
VardaValar1: Nan mara
ArPharazonV: :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: Aiya
ArPharazonV: did you abandon the game, Turg?
TurgonjustTurgon: I'm gonna be a little afkish, Star Sausage: A new Bagle on tv :-P
ArPharazonV: heh
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Gil-galad
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Xseanzee disco: heyyyyyyyyyyyy
VardaValar1: Will you be making a guild name account sometime? Such as GilGaladV or version thereof?
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Farmer :-)
FarmerMaggotV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Varda's getting impatient, Gil :-)
Xseanzee disco: not to be rude - but im pretty lazy, and to make another screen name would be an inconvenience
Xseanzee disco: lol.
VardaValar1: okie dokie, can't have you inconvenienced
Xseanzee disco: Haha, thanks.
VardaValar1: I have about 4
musics4me2 has entered the room.
Xseanzee disco: me too.
Aerandir V has entered the room.
Xseanzee disco: forgot the pass to the others.
VardaValar1: Aiya Aerandir : )
Aerandir V: aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
musics4me2: hehe, I finally figured out how to join from here :P
Aerandir V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: so, we've got 2 FM's now?
ArPharazonV: it's craaazy! craaazy I say!
FarmerMaggotV: yeah, I'll use this one though.... use the other one for the log :P
VardaValar1: One guy, two accounts
Aerandir V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Sort of like Arathorn
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
VardaValar1: Aiayata
VardaValar1: Aiyata
ArPharazonV: and like huan
FarmerMaggotV: a lot like that, but I'm not away :P
VardaValar1: Yay : )
FarmerMaggotV: heh
ArPharazonV: Well, after a long time, I've finally made another RP-post
VardaValar1: Took me a while too, can't fault anyone else for that : )
VardaValar1: I'll go take a peek, since we have a few minutes
ArPharazonV: since my pc is starting to get a little stubborn and unstable on bnet, I've decided to lay off multiplayer for a while
ArPharazonV: so I've suddenly gained hours of free time a day...
FarmerMaggotV: lol
ArPharazonV: which I've been using today for the rp-post, a fresh start on one of my long-postponed stories, and a few hours of bzflag
VardaValar1: A story we might be seeing?
ArPharazonV: at which I'm still pretty bad....
ArPharazonV: well, perhaps
ArPharazonV: in time
ArPharazonV: it does take place in the Tolkien-universe, although very isolated, and only connected by obscure references in the prologue
ArPharazonV: It's gonna be a pretty big story, though, and you might have to wait a while before I can even send in my first part
VardaValar1: Must be an important coat, Estarion
ArPharazonV: perhaps I can soon send in the prologue, though....
VardaValar1: Ok, Phar. I won't hold my breath then : )
ArPharazonV: we'll see
TurgonjustTurgon: never leave without an armory is my motto :-)
VardaValar1: hehe
FarmerMaggotV: heh
VardaValar1: We usually put ooc in the other thread
TurgonjustTurgon: I just didn't say so in the RP, I wanted to leave it a bit of a mystery
TurgonjustTurgon: unfortunately, my blabbermouth just gave that away
ArPharazonV: oh, right
ArPharazonV: ooc in the other thread..... I had my doubts about that
VardaValar1: Looks as if we got active again in the rp. Nothing like a bit of action to get us moving
ArathornValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: We look at it and comment there
VardaValar1: Aiya Arathorn
Aerandir V: aiya
ArPharazonV: well, yeah, just thought I'd kinda set the game in motion
VardaValar1: or should I say Haran
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: the first daggers have been thrown
ArPharazonV: anyway, did I get the plan right?
VardaValar1: I'll let Eonwe answer that when he shows. It's his plan ; )
ArPharazonV: when he shows? so he'll be here still?
VardaValar1: I show 5pm EST. Ready for a business meeting?
musics4me2: could I have maybe 60 sec?
VardaValar1: We discussed it in the ooc thread
VardaValar1: sure, 60 secs is good.
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
ArathornValar: Aiya... was catching up on otrhe pc :-)
FarmerMaggotV: Aha, ok, I'm ready :-)
musics4me2 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome, Doppelganger
ArPharazonV: yeah, I hardly got the plan out of the normal posts
ArPharazonV: was a bit confusing
VardaValar1: That's why we have an ooc thread : )
VardaValar1: Let's start
ArPharazonV: so what I had, I took from the ooc thread... silly of me not to post my ooc part there

Meeting Begins:
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1: np, Phar
ArPharazonV: hantal
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VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Fladrif took a week's vacation, in case anyone wonders what happened to him
VardaValar1: Any other member news?
ArPharazonV: well, I just came back from a 5-day fieldschool
ArPharazonV: and I'll go to the second part starting tomorrow
VardaValar1: Neat. Field school about what subject?
ArPharazonV: again, 5 days
ArPharazonV: well, it's an archaeological excavation
Xseanzee disco: gettin my computer back soon - should be playin again soon.
ArPharazonV: biggest of Europe
VardaValar1: Digging up what?
VardaValar1: Great, Gil!
ArPharazonV: been going on for about 30 years, reserved each year for the fresh students of my university
ArPharazonV: basicly, it's about digging up the entire area around the city of Oss
ArathornValar: Hey, Arphy, lemme know if you find my contact lenses :-P
ArPharazonV: main periods: Iron Age, Romans, and Medieval
ArPharazonV: well, depends on the age of the lenses ;-)
ArathornValar: heh
VardaValar1: Thanks
VardaValar1: Any other member news?
ArPharazonV: I already found loads of stuff.... pieces of pottery, half a pot, and the best part:
ArPharazonV: a coin from 1951!
ArPharazonV: :-D
VardaValar1: Greetings from my house from: Fangorn, Eowyn, Bilbo, Sauron, Eowyn and the visiting Arwen
VardaValar1: Very nice!
ArathornValar: er... Grimbold should be returning soon...
VardaValar1: You can spend it
ArPharazonV: ooh, full house
ArPharazonV: actually, they're not usable anymore since we got the euro
ArPharazonV: nice to collect though :-)
VardaValar1: Exchange?
ArPharazonV: I'm not sure that's possible any more
VardaValar1: You've heard recently from Grimbold, Arathorn?
ArathornValar: trying to rememebr when last... think late last week
VardaValar1: Good to hear
TurgonjustTurgon: exchange of european money and euro's has been shut off in april 2002
Xseanzee disco: Sorry guys - i gotta do some stff right now.
Xseanzee disco: Bye everyone.
ArPharazonV: namarie
VardaValar1: Namarie or enjoy scrolling
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
ArPharazonV: nope, no scrolling
ArPharazonV: well, the transcript perhaps
VardaValar1: guess just read transcript : )
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VardaValar1: Web News:
Orodreth V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Aerandir V: iya
VardaValar1: Elwing-V sent in a poem: "Elfling Lullaby"
VardaValar1: Aiya Orodreth : )
Orodreth V: Aiya, here just to say hi..taking math placement test for new school..back soon as possible.
VardaValar1: New articles for the Tolkien Encyc include "Mithril", "Mithril Shirt"
ArPharazonV: heh, cool poem
VardaValar1: Thanks for dropping by!
ArPharazonV: Namarie, oro
VardaValar1: Good luck!
ArPharazonV: indeed, loads of succes
VardaValar1: Also under Objects, place-holders made for the Gronds: ram and mace; 2 bows of Legolas
VardaValar1: Feel free to send in articles for all the place holders we have scattered about
ArPharazonV: orc types and gear....
ArPharazonV: is that inspired by our little discussion last week?
ArathornValar: Grond?
VardaValar1: Two updated articles:
ArathornValar: ahh.. nm
VardaValar1: "Orc Types and Gear", "Trolls"
VardaValar1: Yes
VardaValar1: Orcs tend to be "swart" as in black. Troll mentioned was green and scaly
VardaValar1: Any further Web news?
VardaValar1: Some of you have pages and I know you work on them. This is your chance to tell us about them
ArPharazonV: well, no, besides the recent upliving in the rp....
VardaValar1: Okie dokie
ArPharazonV: and the fact, of course
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VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: D2X Ladder 2 needs your emailed updates
ArPharazonV: that the forum-game has been steadily going the wrong way in my absence... i'm truly the most important player of the darn thing
VardaValar1: I can't always be on at the same time you are to get your names and levels
VardaValar1: Phar, you mean the MeO game?
TurgonjustTurgon: no, the forum game on the unofficial wc3 forums
ArPharazonV: no, the character elimination game in the original forum where I got the idea
VardaValar1: thanks
VardaValar1: Any other gaming news, having to do with the Valar Guild?
TurgonjustTurgon: aye
VardaValar1: Turgon, please go ahead
TurgonjustTurgon: I'm not sure this is already known or not, but I'm stating it just in case
VardaValar1: If it's news for this week, it's ok to repeat
TurgonjustTurgon: I decided to play DaoC again, in awaitance of WoW, so I checked the Camelot Herald
TurgonjustTurgon: the main page for DaoC
TurgonjustTurgon: and I noticed that the Valar Guild branch there had mostly gone inactive
VardaValar1: ouch
TurgonjustTurgon: I checked it out with Irmo
TurgonjustTurgon: and he told me they had merged with a Guild called Stormwolves, and are now called Stormwolves of Valinor
VardaValar1: Interesting. He neglected to mention it to the Council. Thanks for the info
ArPharazonV: well, that's new.... a merger....
TurgonjustTurgon: correction, Wolves of Valinor
ArPharazonV: not even Wargs of Valinor? :-D
TurgonjustTurgon: I was afraid so, that's why I wanted to check it out with him first, before mentioning it
VardaValar1: Then they are no longer a branch of the Valar Guild, but a different group
VardaValar1: They certainly will not be under our rules in a merged group
TurgonjustTurgon: It had been going that way since about a year ago
TurgonjustTurgon: ever since I stopped playing over a couple disagreemants with Irmo
TurgonjustTurgon: I don
TurgonjustTurgon: t know about that yet
TurgonjustTurgon: I haven't gotten the full info from Irmo yet
ArPharazonV: well, have they al read lotr? ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon: but I think it will be quite possible they have altered their rules to suit their current news
TurgonjustTurgon: needs*
TurgonjustTurgon: as I said, I am not aware of the full situation
VardaValar1: They cannot be a Valar Guild branch in a merger. It's that simple
VardaValar1: I'll also ask Irmo what's going on
TurgonjustTurgon: unless they would merge into the Guild and were all tested by Irmo, which I doubt :-)
VardaValar1: No new members have come in from DAoC
VardaValar1: No articles or poems or anything else from that group in a very long time
TurgonjustTurgon: no, but then again, no news has been heard from DaoC ever since I quit playing either
VardaValar1: I heard a little but not much
ArPharazonV: Turgon: the key between the Valar Guild, and DAoC....
VardaValar1: Lungorthin emailed, was back
VardaValar1: Irmo is our main DAoC contact for the Council, or should be
VardaValar1: Backing up, Farmer has some more Web News. Go ahead, Farmer
TurgonjustTurgon: I'm afraid the handling of the branch in DaoC was too much for Irmo, although he did try his best
FarmerMaggotV: Ok, I've put up a secion on my website for Tolkien Quotes
FarmerMaggotV: And quotes would be nice heh. I'd also like to know what book they come from
VardaValar1: Thanks Farmer
FarmerMaggotV: So, send me some email @ Musics4Me@gmail.com :-)
ArPharazonV: hmm.... I might pick up the books, scroll through, and supply you with at least a dozen quotes....
FarmerMaggotV: thnx :-)
VardaValar1: Good luck. I've gotten exactly one quote emailed in for the News page. ; )
VardaValar1: Arathorn has some Gaming News. Go ahead, Arathorn
ArathornValar: Well, Doom3 came out apparently.. not sure if they have multiplayer, used to. Doom (1) was the first FPS with multiplayer capacity that ever came out... revolutionary in it's time :-D
ArPharazonV: ah, the multiverse of doom-clones...
ArathornValar: Saw a demo for a it a few months ago... nice graphics
Aerandir V: sorry I have to leave. I'm coming back as soon as I can
ArPharazonV: I've still got quake 1 and 2
Aerandir V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: namarie
VardaValar1: Namarie
ArPharazonV: too late
ArathornValar: not a clone... it IS doom3 <heh>
VardaValar1: Took them a long time. Glad to hear it
ArathornValar: I believe they continue the 'story' as it were
ArPharazonV: well, I was actually referencing to the 'revolutionary' aspect of Doom 1
VardaValar1: I have Pong ; )
Aerandir V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiyata. That was fast
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
ArathornValar: Of course I won't try to explain it as I'll undoubtedly confuse it with Half-Life 2 which was supposed to come out recently as well <heh>
VardaValar1: Any further news, comments, suggestions?
Aerandir V: im just leaving the channel open
VardaValar1: Happy scrolling : )
Aerandir V: ill say when im back
Aerandir V: bye
ArPharazonV: well, I've just been looking at Irmo's activity....
ArathornValar: heh, I actually downloaded a PC version of pong... wouldn't run tho .. go figure :-P
ArPharazonV: he hasn't responded since April, it seems
VardaValar1: You mean Activity page? I had a recent email and haven't mentioned it, sorry
ArPharazonV: could it mean that we lose a Vala at the end of the year?
ArPharazonV: oh, ok
ArPharazonV: any news of DAoC? :-)
VardaValar1: Not sure I should mention it, but yes
TurgonjustTurgon: besides, I just got an email from him, meaning he is still in touch
VardaValar1: Comment that Lungorthin was not responsive about updating the DAoC page
VardaValar1: I figure that might be a source of communication problems. Lungorthin hasn't had a comp handy lately
VardaValar1: Any other news, comments, suggestions?
ArPharazonV: ah, yes
ArPharazonV: a few new maps for TFT
VardaValar1: My email tends to eat its emails
ArPharazonV: http://www.battle.net/war3/maps/war3xbon usmaps.shtml stone cold mountain
ArPharazonV: http://pattoncrew.worldofwar.net/piratebattl es.html pirate battles
TurgonjustTurgon: Lungorthin is also busy with his college and stuff, and during summer break catching up with his friends back home
TurgonjustTurgon: that'll prolly account for his lack of time
ArPharazonV: http://revolution.worldofwar.net/ water war, tower offense, hurricane
VardaValar1: Lungorthin switched colleges
VardaValar1: That changed his email
TurgonjustTurgon: I didn't know that yet
TurgonjustTurgon: he prolly forgot to mention when we talked a week or so ago
VardaValar1: Ar-Pharazon, done?
ArPharazonV: oh, I thought you were busy.... well, I'll continue
VardaValar1: No, you were being interrupted : )
ArPharazonV: stone cold mountain is just another official blizzard melee-map, nothing much special
VardaValar1: Let us know when you are finished
ArPharazonV: pirate battles is a cool custom game
ArPharazonV: Turg and I played it a few times, it's pretty nice
ArPharazonV: custom ships surrounded with water, boarding each other, and you have to destroy each other's pirate booty to win
TurgonjustTurgon: comment that it's a little small, and will only take a couple mins to win
ArPharazonV: you can pick from 3 heroes, strength, agility and intelligence, although they look the same, and have fitting abilities
VardaValar1: Not all of us play WC3/TFT, so we don't need deep detail. Feel free to put in detailed reviews for the Gaming page, emailing Eonwe
ArPharazonV: it can get pretty boring after a few days against the same opponent, but now and then it's nice to play
ArPharazonV: and the other 3 maps I haven't gotten to play yet....
ArPharazonV: but that's it
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar, nice review
VardaValar1: Are we ready to move on to Tolkien?
ArPharazonV: sure, take it away
ArathornValar: Curious, is Fladrif's server for BZFlag still up? Anyone know?
ArPharazonV: well, we could try that, Arathorn
VardaValar1: Give it a try and find out?
FarmerMaggotV: I'd check but comps a bit busy... updating program from CVS
ArathornValar: I did the other day ut it didnt' connect so don;t know if it's my prob or it's not up :/
VardaValar1: Might come up and down
FarmerMaggotV: ok, it's done updating -- I'll check
ArPharazonV: perhaps it went down while he was on vacation
ArPharazonV: I wonder though, when did he say he was leaving?
ArathornValar: Thought it was a TANK game not elevator game :-P
VardaValar1: Quite likely. He is supposed to be gone a week
VardaValar1: Surprise, surprise
ArPharazonV: I haven't heard from him this weekend, so probably I won't see him until next friday
FarmerMaggotV: hm..
VardaValar1: Fladrif mentioned it Aug 2
FarmerMaggotV: I was on
FarmerMaggotV: seems up to me
VardaValar1: Yay!
ArPharazonV: what was the port again? I've been playing another server, so I'm not sure anymore
FarmerMaggotV: 60005
ArathornValar: ahh.. think I used default port
FarmerMaggotV: hehe
ArathornValar: lemme tey... jas
VardaValar1: Definitely worth your asking then : )
ArPharazonV: heh, I immediately blew myself up.. how silly
VardaValar1: hehe
FarmerMaggotV: lol
ArathornValar has left the room.
FarmerMaggotV: Running an OpenGL terminal and an OpenGL based game causes flicker issues when one is under the other :P
ArathornValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiyata
ArathornValar: hmm... well THAT wasn't good...
ArPharazonV: wow, Turg, you're good
Aerandir V: back
ArathornValar: I got on finem but when I tried to get back to my Desktop the entire screen was out of whack <sigh>
VardaValar1: Welcome back
ArPharazonV: where did you come from Turg??
ArPharazonV: ah, cloak, should have known
FarmerMaggotV: lol
FarmerMaggotV: back to meeting?
ArathornValar: Anoyone else have a Resolution prob when trying to jump back to windows when playing BZFlag?
ArPharazonV: the most overpowered flag when played right
ArPharazonV: or when countered wrong
FarmerMaggotV: or when forgotten about :P
Aerandir V: computers, so much ability and equal frustration
VardaValar1: Anyone able to answer Arathorn's question?
VardaValar1: aye : )
ArathornValar: Wonder iff it's because I run teh desktop at 1152x1024 :/
FarmerMaggotV: I'll be right back.. gonna run down stairs see if and when dinner's gonna be :P
VardaValar1: Scroll is good
ArPharazonV: well, thorn, I always play windowed... not really a problem at all
ArathornValar: Well, I can tale it offline with the BZflag players.. see if I can fix the glitch
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VardaValar1: Anyone besides me have a Tolkien topic?
ArathornValar: Well, I have a quick question not really a topic
VardaValar1: Fire
ArathornValar: One of the quotes on teh news page...
ArathornValar: The short one from Sam...
FarmerMaggotV: Ok, dinner's now I guess - AFK
TurgonjustTurgon: hmmmmz.... Phar didn't like being blown up 6 times in a row :-)
ArathornValar: "I won't have it, and that's flat"
VardaValar1: Bon appetit
ArathornValar: When and what is he talking about exactly.?
VardaValar1: So I need to put up book and chapter for each quote?
ArPharazonV: no, not really... not when I can't even see you and there's a meeting going on as well, and I have been playing it for hours earlier today
ArathornValar: heh.. no that's why I'm asking... it eludes me
ArPharazonV: that was directed to Turgon
Aerandir V: has anyone read any of the unfinished stories(not necessarily from "unfinished tales") of tolkien?
ArPharazonV: well, yeah
VardaValar1: That would be most of the Histories
TurgonjustTurgon: read the entire UT
ArPharazonV: including the New Shadow, and Tal/Tar-elmar
ArPharazonV: not really sure if it's tal or tar..
Aerandir V: have any of you seen a story that takes place after return of the king
ArPharazonV: and of course UT
Aerandir V: ?
ArPharazonV: yes
ArPharazonV: The New Shadow
VardaValar1: The appendices
Aerandir V: not in LOTR
ArPharazonV: you can find it at the end of Histories part 12
ArPharazonV: second-last chapter
Aerandir V: how long is it?
VardaValar1: JRRT decided not to go ahead with the New Shadow, as I recollect, as it was just a "thriller"
ArPharazonV: hmm.... good question... but it was really unfinished, won't have gone further than like 15 pages or something
ArPharazonV: perhaps less
Aerandir V: was it like Lotr or narrative like the appendices
ArPharazonV: I thought the abrupt ending was what made the story the best....
ArPharazonV: it was like Lotr
ArPharazonV: but the unfinished aspect was what made it fit
ArPharazonV: the fact that the story never truly ends, that there is no end, even after lotr
Aerandir V: you cant preserve all ancient texts
ArathornValar: Ahh. found it... When Gandalf says to leave Bill behind
ArPharazonV: there will never be true peace, for peace leads to boredom, boredom leads to evil, and evil leads to the end of peace
ArPharazonV: and so the cycle continues even onto this time, even though the true evil ainur and evil races have been vanquished
VardaValar1: There you go, Arathorn
VardaValar1: Busy hands keep the peace
ArPharazonV: there is no end, and that came out perfectly in the New Shadow
Aerandir V: there was a twilight zone about world peace . some guy wished for it and everyone else disappeared
ArathornValar: Just sounded like he might be talking about Orc food :-P
VardaValar1: lol
ArPharazonV: leaving it unfinished was in my opinion the best thing he could have done with the story
VardaValar1: X-Files had one like that, Aerandir
ArathornValar: Be careful what you wish for .. heh
VardaValar1: Still sounds right : )
VardaValar1: Aye!
Aerandir V: how did you like the numenorean stories in unfinished tales?
ArathornValar: No, then EVERY one would have to disappear :-D
VardaValar1: True, arguing with self is very common
ArathornValar: more often than one would think <chuckle>
ArPharazonV: I liked those stories, and I was sorry to see that one end suddenly...
Aerandir V: i've always been interested in the atlantis myth, and then I found those
ArPharazonV: have you read Histories part 5 yet? about the lost road?
ArPharazonV: also a nice source for Numenor-stories
ArPharazonV: I like numenor, hence my name :-D
VardaValar1: And then you had it sunk ; )
Aerandir V: no so far ive read histories 1,2,and I have 3&4 but i havent had time to read those last 2 yet
Aerandir V: shcool
VardaValar1: We'll have to let you read after the meeting : )
ArPharazonV: hey, I was trying to give my people immortality... how was I supposed to know it would lead to their mass-destruction?
VardaValar1: Some of us read during the meeting too, heh
VardaValar1: The instruction manual?
Aerandir V: i also have to find the books. they're not at my library
VardaValar1: Some are hard to find
ArPharazonV: buy them!
VardaValar1: Might have to try Amazon.com
ArPharazonV: perhaps, yes
VardaValar1: I have trouble finding them at stores, just a few here and there
Aerandir V: have you seen the cost of "pictures of JRRT"?
ArPharazonV: I got it from DeKler, one of the most famous book-selling companies of the Netherlands... where I could order every single one of my Tolkien-books :-D
Aerandir V: pretty rare book
VardaValar1: I have the old LotR books with his paintings on them
VardaValar1: Rolozo's page was required to quit hosting those pics
ArPharazonV: pictures of JRRT, Journeys of Frodo, Letters of Tolkien.... perhaps I oughtta order them too some time
Aerandir V: in his letters he said that he couldnt make good pictures
VardaValar1: I highly recommend Letters
Aerandir V: but i disagree
Aerandir V: i have letters of JRRT
VardaValar1: I like the way he got the feeling of a fantastic landscape
ArPharazonV: heck, I've already got 19 books from and about Tolkien.... and one parody on Lotr.... must I have more? :-D
VardaValar1: Yes! What a question
ArPharazonV: :-)
Aerandir V: is the parody "bored of the rings"?
VardaValar1: And then there's all the goodies on the web
ArPharazonV: yes, that's the one
VardaValar1: Then there are the MAD magazine parodies of the movies
VardaValar1: The web even lists Foxtrot comics with LotR subjects
VardaValar1: So with all those resources you guys have, feel free to email some articles for the Encyc!
VardaValar1: Elatan/Amillo alone made the Annals of Arda
VardaValar1: Surely we can do a bit
VardaValar1: Enough bugging you guys
ArPharazonV: http://www.livejournal.com/users/monkeycr ackmary/407709.html http://www.livejournal.com/users/mollyringw raith/7952.html http://www.livejournal.com/users/mollyringw raith/1826.html
VardaValar1: I was thinking about the Maiar roaming Middle-earth
ArPharazonV: http://www.livejournal.com/users/mollyringw raith/5635.html
VardaValar1: We know some were around quite a bit
VardaValar1: Osse and Uinen for two
VardaValar1: Melian
ArPharazonV: Sauron, the Istari....
VardaValar1: Maybe Tom Bombadil and Goldberry and Ungoliant
Aerandir V: ive heard that bombadil wasnt one
ArPharazonV: of which 2 or 3 may still be around, the Istari
VardaValar1: Sure, we've heard lots of ideas on the origin of Tom
VardaValar1: and Goldberry and Ungoliant, so I said maybe
VardaValar1: I personally would say the evidence weighs in for their being Maiar
ArPharazonV: is he a messenger from Eru? Is he a Maia from Yavanna? Is he an Ainur from outside Arda?
ArPharazonV: is he a drug-addicted hippy?
VardaValar1: What I was getting at, is that we may have had quite a few Maiar on Middle-earth and not known
Aerandir V: those wer crazy lyrics
VardaValar1: Hey, I even saw a guy insisting Bombadil was Eru
Aerandir V: tolkien addressed that
VardaValar1: Right, and said no
VardaValar1: Also note that Bombadil had a lot of "inabilities"
VardaValar1: Ones no Vala would have
Aerandir V: he is at least " the spirit of the oxford countryside"
VardaValar1: So that could be a Maia
ArPharazonV: Bombadil is Tolkien! Breaking through the Fourth Wall!
VardaValar1: probably of Yavanna
VardaValar1: Goldberry could be a Maia of Ulmo or a rusalka
Aerandir V: fourth wall?
ArPharazonV: yes, the fourth wall... the barrier between the fiction and the author
Aerandir V: ah
ArPharazonV: often seen in webcomics for instance, where the author shows up in the comic or the characters complain about the comic itself
ArPharazonV: originally taken from acting on the stage
VardaValar1: Hitchcock and Peter Jackson playing characters in their movies count? : )
ArPharazonV: no, that's a cameo
Aerandir V: like monty python when the artist died?
VardaValar1: Good point. Maybe a cameo could be considered one
Aerandir V: and the monster went away with him
ArPharazonV: well, yes, Aerandir, something like that probably
ArPharazonV: http://www.campusprogram.com/reference/ en/wikipedia/f/fo/fourth_wall.html
VardaValar1: We've gone over an hour now. Do we wish to continue?
ArPharazonV: sure, continue
VardaValar1: or go play BZFlag or other?
Aerandir V: brb
VardaValar1: If anyone is live, please say something, such as aye?
VardaValar1: Aye
Aerandir V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: aye
ArPharazonV: something, such as aye
VardaValar1: Since it's down to so few, I declare an After-meeting
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After-meeting:
ArathornValar: Popping in/out.... making supper
Aerandir V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
VardaValar1: Happy after-meeting : )
ArPharazonV: ok, to go completely off-topic...
ArPharazonV: can somebody explain to me how to distinguish love from obsession?
VardaValar1: Tried the dictionary?
VardaValar1: Fangorn says "no"
Aerandir V: person or object?
VardaValar1: Love should have the ability to reason, still, obsession is constant thinking about one thing
ArPharazonV: from... let's say, me... to a girl in my close environment
FarmerMaggotV: back :-)
VardaValar1: and then there are hormones
VardaValar1: Aiyata
TurgonjustTurgon: I would say when one abandons ones own morals to get the desired love, love has gone over into obsession
VardaValar1: For those who don't know, Fangorn is my husband
Aerandir V: I think love would mean being willing to sacrifice your comfort for the benefit of the other person
FarmerMaggotV: is this after meeting?
ArPharazonV: yeah
VardaValar1: Yes, after-meeting
FarmerMaggotV: ah ok
VardaValar1: We got down to two people for a while
ArPharazonV: well, 'for a while'... Aerandir was not gone that long
VardaValar1: Also discussion was going south
VardaValar1: Namarie for now

transcript from Farmer Maggot-V:
[18:21:06]  <ArPharazonV> but for Turgon and Aerandir's arguments... how would one tell if the situation had not yet occurred for finding out those distinctions?
[18:22:18]  <ArPharazonV> dang, again the answer must remain lost to me...
[18:22:32]  <FarmerMaggotV> Anyone up for some BZFlag?
[18:22:49]  <ArPharazonV> let's just say I have NEVER abandoned my own principles and morals for gaining the love I desire
[18:23:14]  <ArPharazonV> so, that's a good start....
[18:23:20]  ***  FINARFIN010 has joined chat "4:Valar Guild Meetingplace".
[18:23:22]  <ArPharazonV> but, ok, some bzflag sounds fine
[18:23:24]  <FINARFIN010> Aiya
[18:23:26]  <ArPharazonV> Aiya
[18:23:36]  <FarmerMaggotV> ok
[18:23:38]  <FarmerMaggotV> :)
[18:23:51]  <FarmerMaggotV> I'll be on other screenname: Musics4Me2
[18:24:27]  <Aerandir V> love could also be if you would still be willing to sa crifice your comfort for that person even if they were not physically attractive(to reason out lust)
[18:24:57]  ***  Disconnected from VALAR: User disconnected.

transcript from Ar-Pharazon
: ArPharazonV: but can it be love if you do not find the person physically attractive? is love not supposed to be blind?
FINARFIN010: do you realy mean that Pharazon?
ArPharazonV: well, yes, I mean that
ArPharazonV: does that sound so surprising?
FINARFIN010: I wish i had been here to hear what had been disscussed earlier
FINARFIN010: I used to think that way
FINARFIN010: but i do not now
ArPharazonV: oh, well, the discussion has not been going on for that long
FINARFIN010: :-)
ArathornValar: I'm eating right now, so will check out the BZFlag server in a bit... not that I've actually played at all yet :-P
ArathornValar: afk for a tad...
Aerandir V: i think it is the mind that counts and that physical beauty is a bonus(sorry, that was the best word for this situation)
ArPharazonV: anyway, physical attraction is no requirement for what can be called love? good, that would explain a lot....
FINARFIN010: it is many things that count
TurgonjustTurgon: I think that everyone starts out on physical appearance
ArPharazonV: right, yes, perhaps
FINARFIN010: no
FINARFIN010: not evertone
Aerandir V: if you loved some one beautiful and they were later somehow disfigured true love should last
TurgonjustTurgon: but when you start knowing each other, the physical aspect may become lost and gets lesser meaning
Orodreth V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: perhaps... although it can be otherwise
ArPharazonV: ok, let's take this example
FINARFIN010: so if you love someone and you get married what happens if that person gets obese?
ArPharazonV: a few years ago, I had been in love, or so I thought, for over 4 years
FINARFIN010: or gets in a bad car accident
FINARFIN010: or is marred by some loony
TurgonjustTurgon: hey
FINARFIN010: heya
TurgonjustTurgon: I wouldn't mind marrying a loony
FINARFIN010: heheh
FINARFIN010: i did
FINARFIN010: :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: at least we'd be 2 kindred spirits :-)
FINARFIN010: i know the feeling:-)
TurgonjustTurgon: I'm as loony as they get and proud of it too :-)
FINARFIN010: hehehe
FINARFIN010: you rock turgon
FINARFIN010: :-)
ArPharazonV: and although that person had not been 'marred' or otherwise turned ugly in those years, I started to think less about how she actually looked, although it still seemed to me like I was in love, even if it was only her personality
TurgonjustTurgon: I know :-)
FINARFIN010: k
ArPharazonV: and I was thinking... was it no more than obsession? she had definitely lost 'some' value in my eyes, and still she was the main thing on my mind
FINARFIN010: k
TurgonjustTurgon: that's what I would call at the very least being in love
FINARFIN010: maybe
TurgonjustTurgon: see it this way:
TurgonjustTurgon: if your relationship was based on physical appearances, would it last indefinitely?
TurgonjustTurgon: or at least partly based on
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: hey maggoty :-)
ArPharazonV: well, it could... if over time the basis shifted to other aspects, it could still have been based on physical appearance in the beginning
FarmerMaggotV: Anybody gonna play some BZFlag?
TurgonjustTurgon: waiting on Oro and Phar and Ara :-)
FarmerMaggotV: heh
TurgonjustTurgon: besides, interesting discussion on love
FINARFIN010: why is the beauty aspect so important to you Ar? I do not want to ask to personal a question but i am just wondering.
Aerandir V: it could start with appearace but then true love wont care about that later
TurgonjustTurgon: I believe every person has his / her own beauty, whether in physical appearance, or character or whatever
TurgonjustTurgon: not necessarily Aerindir
ArPharazonV: well, in my case it's the first thing that gets my attention, although I know well enough that physical beauty makes no guarantees about the character
TurgonjustTurgon: but it would only work if someone's vision of beauty would change with age
FarmerMaggotV: I think looks have a great deal to do with things, by human nature you'll see the pretty girl first. But once you get to know people, it doesn't make any diff (IMHO).
TurgonjustTurgon: what was imho again?
TurgonjustTurgon: nvm
ArPharazonV: in my humble opinion
FarmerMaggotV: yeah :P
TurgonjustTurgon: or honest
TurgonjustTurgon: whatever :-)
FarmerMaggotV: take your pick :P
ArPharazonV: wow, honest could work too
TurgonjustTurgon: could also be optometristics :-P
FarmerMaggotV: I just shot a man.. Put the gun against his, pulled the trigger now he's dead...
TurgonjustTurgon: or however that is spelled
FarmerMaggotV: Bohemian Rhapsody stuck in my head :P
TurgonjustTurgon: heh :-)
FarmerMaggotV: but I got the feeling I effectively killed this convo :P
ArPharazonV: actually, I'm IM-ing Finarfin about the subject
FarmerMaggotV: ah
FarmerMaggotV: I hate electrical hum from my speakers.... any ideas?
TurgonjustTurgon: so.... who's up for some BZflagging now?
FarmerMaggotV: me
ArPharazonV: I'll be there soon...
TurgonjustTurgon: while listening Alan Parsons Project :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: going in
TurgonjustTurgon: beware of the mighty Turgon :-)
FarmerMaggotV: lol
ArPharazonV: I'm listening to Alphaville
FarmerMaggotV: well, cya there
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Forever young
FINARFIN010: you can base the biginning of a relationship on beauty attraction.
FINARFIN010: but you will find that other things will offset beauty
FINARFIN010: things..like
Aerandir V has left the room.
FINARFIN010: bad manners
FINARFIN010: nose picking in publick
ArPharazonV: heh
FINARFIN010: someone who will not clean
FINARFIN010: someone who does not support your goals
FINARFIN010: this kink of thing
FINARFIN010: someone who does not share your sense of humor
ArPharazonV: that's why I try to start friendships with girls I like first, to get to know them better, and to have a better foundation
TurgonjustTurgon: great thing Phara :-)
Aerandir V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: that's where it can come in handy that my love can last for years on end
FINARFIN010: as long as you understand what makes a relationship "work" then you are not doing anything that many many many other people do round this crazy world.
FINARFIN010: do
Eru68 has entered the room.
Eru68: Good evening...
FINARFIN010: Aya
ArPharazonV: Hail
Aerandir V: aiya
ArathornValar has left the room.
Eru68: This is Eru-Valar.
ArPharazonV: THE?
Eru68: Aye, and it's been a while. :-)
ArPharazonV: excuse my use of capslock
ArPharazonV: it is an honor to meet you
Eru68: And I am honoured to meet you as well. It's always a pleasure to speak with other Tolkien fans.
Eru68: I was hoping to see Varda, we haven't spoken for so long.
ArPharazonV: she left about half an hour ago... has it been that long already?
Eru68: I'll have to make the effort again next time then. I must also apologise for my extended absence, real life is such an intrusion.
ArPharazonV: ah yes, real life... such a bother ;-)
FINARFIN010: I was hopping to run into Varda as well.
FINARFIN010: but i got here just after work.
Eru68: Are any of you regular meeting attendees?
FINARFIN010: Sorry Eru68 where are my manners...
FINARFIN010: well met indeed Eru
FINARFIN010: bows low
FINARFIN010: not I
Aerandir V: I come when I can
ArPharazonV: well, in the last half year I don't think I missed more than 3 meetings or so....
Eru68: No need to bow, if I had a gold piece for every time someone bows... ;-)
FINARFIN010: I bow to scrape up the gold pieces heheh:-D
ArPharazonV: and lately I have been getting into the habit of staying as one of the last, supplying Varda with the transcript
Eru68: In that case, Ar-Pharazon the Golden, last king of Numenor, does my oldest Valar Guild friend Manwe frequent this place?
ArPharazonV: Manwe? No, I don't recall meeting him....
Eru68: Alas...
FINARFIN010: I have not seen Manwe in a long Age.
FINARFIN010: I have been a member for 5 years
Aerandir V: I come pretty often but miss a few meetings
ArPharazonV: I've not even been one for a year
Aerandir V: i dont think ive met manwe
ArPharazonV: somewhat less than two months from now my anniversary will come
FINARFIN010: are you an origanal Eru?
Eru68: He was a great friend, and a terrible typist.
FINARFIN010: hehe
FINARFIN010: fat fingers
ArPharazonV: oh, I guess that makes me special, though... my anniversary is the same day as the anniversary of the guild itself
FINARFIN010: Wow you are the Eru who recurted Vara?
FINARFIN010: !!!
Eru68: I am the One, yes, Finarfin, youngest son of Fingolfin and daughter of fair Indis...
FINARFIN010: Bows even Lower and lowers eyes from the sight of the most Holy
FINARFIN010: i am indeed pleased to see you
ArPharazonV: ok, not to upset you in any way, Great One, but do you always talk like that? ;-)
FINARFIN010: i remember playing with you when we just had dieblo
Eru68: Well, only when I'm in here, Ar-Pharazon, or they'd lock me up. :-)
ArPharazonV: heh
Eru68: The speech, plus my use of punctuation is sort of my calling card.
FINARFIN010: Varda will be Vexed indeed when she learns of your Visit
FINARFIN010: alas for Varda
ArPharazonV: I mean, it's one thing to speak according to the codes of conduct, which we all do, of course, but your speech is indeed unique
FINARFIN010: oh... he is just warming up
ArPharazonV: hahaha
Eru68: I've had a lot of practice, since 1997...
FINARFIN010: indeed
FINARFIN010: Eru... what was the name of the student in south america..???
FINARFIN010: he was the one who recruted me
Eru68: He was Tulkas at the time?
FINARFIN010: yes
FINARFIN010: aye
Eru68: Ahh...hmm...David...something?
FINARFIN010: rith\
Eru68: It's been so long.
FINARFIN010: when i joined the guild i was not tested
FINARFIN010: yes
Eru68: Me neither, Finarfin. :-)
FINARFIN010: are you playing any games lately?
ArPharazonV: bzflag, by any chance? ;-)
FINARFIN010: hehehe\
Eru68: Unfortunately no. However, it's been a major quest for Varda to get me into a game.
FINARFIN010: And a Worthy Quest it is indeed.
TurgonjustTurgon: Aiya Eru!
Eru68: And hail Turgon, youngest of Fingolfin's two sons!
FINARFIN010: bty my build friends ....
Aerandir V
: i'll be leaving now
Aerandir V: bye
ArPharazonV: Thank you Finarfin, for making me believe in myself again ;-)
Aerandir V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: bye, Aerandir
ArPharazonV: too late
Eru68: Well, my brief time here is also at an end. I shall return to the Timeless Halls until my next visit. Farewell, gentle folk of the Valar Guild, give my regards to Varda.
ArPharazonV: will do
FINARFIN010: the museum of Sience here in Boston is haveing a Lord of the Rings Exibit... of how the movie was made with porps and the like
ArPharazonV
: I'll send the transcript soon
Eru68: Farewell...
Eru68 has left the room.
FINARFIN010: Namarie
FINARFIN010
: which i am going to attend wed.
FINARFIN010
: hehe
FINARFIN010
: well i too must be on my way
FINARFIN010
: Namaire all. :-)
FINARFIN010 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie, I'm going to save and mail
ArPharazonV: Turg, if thou still don't mind filling my position in the forum-game when I'm gone, please, go ahead... or else I fear I'll never see Vashj again :-)
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