Valar Guild

August 22, 2004 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST (GMT-5)

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transcript from Arathorn, Ar-Pharazon, and Varda

Meeting Begins - Eonwe-(Valar) presiding
    Review of the twelve Histories of Middle-earth, by Franco Manni, now under Tolkien Encyclopedia/ Special Papers, and Book Reviews
    Fellowship Festival 2004
    Magic the Gathering, online
    MeO RP
    WarCraft3/The Frozen Throne
    Well of Souls
    Eonwe's topic: Did the Valar have freedom of choice?

(Ar-Pharazon's transcript, Arathorn's starts in the same place, but has times):
You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
(4:31:38 PM) Celebrimbor V has entered the room.
Celebrimbor V: AIYA
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Celebrimbor V: hee hee
ArPharazonV: timezone change??
Celebrimbor V: eh?
ArPharazonV: or are we just gathering early?
Celebrimbor V: proilly just inviting a little early lol
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Celebrimbor V: aiya
Eonwe Valar: heya :}
Celebrimbor V: finally got a Sunday off lol
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: congrats :}
Celebrimbor V: thanx
Celebrimbor V: hopefully that is a more permanent thing
Arwen V1: aiya =D
ArPharazonV: a permanent sunday? well, that would be.. odd..
Eonwe Valar: heya long time no see :}
Celebrimbor V: well, I work in a movie theater...we normally work Sundays lol
DemonicHorde69 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Celebrimbor V: hopefully I"m off Sunday as a permanent thing lol
sauronjag has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Celebrimbor V: aiya
sauronjag: Heyas
Eonwe Valar: There think I got everyone invited :}
sauronjag: It's been awhile :-)
Eonwe Valar: 9 people 10 min before meeting,.. that's pretty darn good :}
Eonwe Valar: hey Lungorthin :}
Celebrimbor V: I got invite happy
Orodreth V has entered the room.
Celebrimbor V: lol
sauronjag: Your name is very bright Eonwe :-)
Orodreth V: Whoops.
Orodreth V: Aiya, all.
Eonwe Valar: :} yours is grey for me :}
ArPharazonV: so, I guess it's Turgon's time to make the transcript :-)
ArPharazonV: yes, lungorthin's name is grey, Eonwe's name is bright blue/green (there's a word for that color, just can't think of it)
Eonwe Valar: would the word be bluegreen? :}
Orodreth V: Sea green?
Celebrimbor V: aqua
Eonwe Valar: there's also tourquoise
ArPharazonV: aqua, that could be it... not sure, though
Arwen V1: whats my color?
sauronjag: White
Eonwe Valar: highlighter :}
ArPharazonV: with a yellow background around your name and text
Arwen V1: hehe
Celebrimbor V: dark red, w/yellow
Celebrimbor V: he he
sauronjag: I'm going to pop in some ez mac
sauronjag: brb
Eonwe Valar: ok :}
Eonwe Valar: afk for a moment as well :}
ArPharazonV: good news! the bigger games on my pc seem to be working again, not freezing up after a short time
Eonwe Valar: back
Eonwe Valar: congrats Phar :}
ArPharazonV: I've spent a few hours today playing Well of Souls, and just before the meeting Flad and I tested the new Blizzard map for Frozen Throne
ArPharazonV: it's called Excavation Site, an underground city discovered by the Goblins at Ogrimmar ;-)
ArPharazonV: well, underground...
Eonwe Valar: I tried downloading that earlier, but it wouldn't let me
ArPharazonV: more excavated
ArPharazonV: yes, yesterday I couldn't download it either
ArPharazonV: today it worked fine for me
Eonwe Valar: If anyone is looking for a job, Blizzard needs an Account Sales Representative,.. gotta move to California though :}
ArPharazonV: meh, too far away just for a job...
Celebrimbor V: no kiddin' lol
Eonwe Valar: you can commute, hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: you'd have to leaving on Monday to get to work Tuesday :}
Celebrimbor V: lol
ArPharazonV: hmm.... I need a job before I can move over the ocean, and I need to move over the ocean to get the job.. no thank you!
Eonwe Valar: Sure thing :}
ArPharazonV: I don't think that's going to happen for me
ArPharazonV: well, today I rejoined the war3 forum game... I just couldn't resist, and both Sylvanei were still alive to support ;-)
ArPharazonV: well, 'alive'...
Eonwe Valar: congrats :}
ArPharazonV: 1 alive, the other undead
Eonwe Valar: Hmm a few more minutes to see if anyone else is coming
ArPharazonV: Varda's away?
Eonwe Valar: Not as far as I know
ArPharazonV: any idea if she still got my email?
Eonwe Valar: if you sent one she probably got it
ArPharazonV: she knew I came to the after-after-meeting, but I guess my small piece of news wasn't important enough to add to the transcript ;-)
ArPharazonV: no matter, I'll mention it again today
TurgonjustTurgon: Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: Yes?
TurgonjustTurgon: what are the requirements for that job?
Eonwe Valar: Not sure,.. moving to California is one of them though
Eonwe Valar:
TurgonjustTurgon: I hardly think moving is the major requirement, most likely some experience in sortlike jobs is required
Eonwe Valar: they require a resume sent to them though, with cover sheet as I recall
ArathornValar has entered the room.
Celebrimbor V: aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Opening for fulltime position in Irvine, California, so yes you have to move
Eonwe Valar: hey Arathorn
ArathornValar: hmm, I can never join when invited.. have to cancel and join myself :-\
ArathornValar: Aiya
ArPharazonV: that's strange
ArathornValar: very... course AIM just upgraded recently so...
ArathornValar: sure they introduced soem new bugs :-P
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Well, ok guys ready to go?
Eonwe Valar: meeting that is, not leave :}
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Thank you!
Celebrimbor V: aiya
Eonwe Valar: Just in time :}
ArPharazonV: Aiya
FallenGlory has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
FallenGlory: Heya
ArPharazonV: Varda, did you get my email?
VardaValar1: I saw two from Elwing and one from Arwen just now
VardaValar1: Might be between the spam
VardaValar1: Should I go check?
ArPharazonV: I sent it a few hours after last week's meeting
VardaValar1: Meeting minutes?
ArPharazonV: just saying I was there, and a piece of transcript, yes
HearNoEvil80 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: I saw you added me to the attendant list
Celebrimbor V: aiya
ArPharazonV: but you did not add the transcript
ArPharazonV: nor answer my maili
ArPharazonV: *mail
TurgonjustTurgon: well, Phara, you do know that when you typo "email", the word which you get might give some clue about what mail is :-)
VardaValar1: I would have answered if I'd seen it, and given you credit
VardaValar1: I'll check
TurgonjustTurgon: "snail" :-D
ArathornValar: Escargot
ArathornValar: Mmmm
ArPharazonV: subject 'meeting transcript
ArPharazonV: '
ArathornValar: in garlic butter :-D
Eonwe Valar: ew eating snail
ArPharazonV: it's 12 kb, if that helps :-D
VardaValar1: Don't see it
Celebrimbor V: aiya Varda
ArPharazonV: hmm... odd... well, it wasn't that important
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
ArPharazonV: I do wonder, though, if you did not get my mail
VardaValar1: Sure it was important
ArathornValar: not snails... escargot... there's a big difference <snortle>
ArPharazonV: how did you know I came to the 'way aftermeeting'?
ArathornValar: I think i may have mentioned it to her Arphy
ArPharazonV: well, it was just me getting late, congratulating Gwaihir, and stating a small piece of news, which I can repeat here
ArPharazonV: that piece of news was actually why I sent the transcript in at all ;-)
ArPharazonV: I have the transcript here now, let's see if I can copy and paste...
VardaValar1: Not in another folder either, just checked
VardaValar1: Sure, and you can give the news in the proper meeting section too :-)
ArPharazonV: oh, ok
ArPharazonV: it's part web, part gaming
VardaValar1: Wait for those sections then
ArPharazonV: I will
ArPharazonV: and brb
VardaValar1: Eonwe will be chair :-)
Eonwe Valar: Looks like we're ready to begin :}

Meeting Begins:
Eonwe Valar: Elen sila lumenn omentielvo.
ArPharazonV: back
Eonwe Valar: Membership:
Eonwe Valar: I'm back :}
VardaValar1: Aiyata : )
ArPharazonV: Aiyata :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: sits on Eonwe :-P
Eonwe Valar: A few weeks ago a lightning strike fried my modems. They're replaced, so I'm back :}
ArathornValar: <hear, hear!>
ArPharazonV: speech! speech!
Eonwe Valar: Hantalye :}
VardaValar1: Woot!
ArPharazonV: Congrats
Eonwe Valar: Any other Member News?
VardaValar1: Dreamlord, our old Irmo
VardaValar1: has gone to the University of Wisconsin, new email
VardaValar1: so he's now in the US
ArPharazonV: US, magnet of the world...
sauronjag: he's a professor there? or student
VardaValar1: Student, taking English
Eonwe Valar: congrats to Dreamlord :} Too bad he's not here to congratulate in person :}
VardaValar1: also looking into continuing musical interests
VardaValar1: His new email is
VardaValar1: abrahamsen(AT)
VardaValar1: So feel free to email him
VardaValar1: That's all I have
Eonwe Valar: THanks Varda :}
Eonwe Valar: Anyone else?

Eonwe Valar: Ok on to Web news :}
Eonwe Valar: Games Page: It's almost that time again,.. you know what time right? :}
TurgonjustTurgon: some membership news yet if possible
ArPharazonV: tool time!
ArPharazonV: sorry
TurgonjustTurgon: sweep and update!
VardaValar1: What are you talking about, Turgon
VardaValar1: Games page?
TurgonjustTurgon: yep
Eonwe Valar: Yep! The Annual Games Page Update :}
VardaValar1: Sweep is not usually a Games function, pardon confusion
TurgonjustTurgon: as for my little bit of membership news, I beg to wait on that a bit, Star Wars nearing the end, I want to see it :-)
ArPharazonV: Return of the Jedi!
Eonwe Valar: hehe ok Turg
DaeTPringl has entered the room.
Celebrimbor V: aiya
ArPharazonV: Star Wars... one of the few movie-trilogies where the middle part is the best
VardaValar1: Aiya Eowyn
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Sweep is not actually done as part of the Update, but it does work as a contact if you respond
DaeTPringl: Aiya
ArPharazonV: 'Luke, I am your father'
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: ok guys, no Star Wars at the meeting :}
ArPharazonV: 'k
ArPharazonV: perhaps we need to join a Star Wars guild for that...
FladrifV: ?
Eonwe Valar: E-mails going out in September, you'll have one month to respond, as usual. Immediately aftyer you get the e-mail is best though :}
ArPharazonV: and disturb the meetings with Tolkien-talk :-D
Arwen V1 has left the room.
Celebrimbor V: he he Star Wars guild lol
FladrifV has left the room.
FladrifV has entered the room.
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Encyclopedia:
Eonwe Valar: Special Papers:
ArPharazonV: and now, Flad? Can you see anything?
Eonwe Valar: "J.R.R. Tolkien, The History of Middle-earth, 12 volumes" by Franco Manni (editor of the Tolkien fanzine, Endore. Teaches ).
FladrifV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Translation from his original Italian to English by a kindly Australian, a visiting Fellow at the school.
ArPharazonV: guess not
VardaValar1: Franco has been emailing quite a while
VardaValar1: He would join but he fears his English isn't good enough to keep pace
VardaValar1: We need someone to help him translate his papers in Italian and we could have a lot of good stuff
VardaValar1: So if you can or know someone who can, please email me
FladrifV has entered the room.
FladrifV: aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
ArPharazonV: can you hear us now?
FladrifV: think my trillian crashed
FladrifV: didn't recieve anything
Eonwe Valar: Any other Web news?
VardaValar1: Yes
Eonwe Valar: Go ahead :}
VardaValar1: The Fellowship Festival 2004 is Aug 28
VardaValar1: We have a link to it in case any of you can go
VardaValar1: It's in London
VardaValar1: That's all
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: Anyone else with Web news?
TurgonjustTurgon: back
TurgonjustTurgon: gotta love them Ewok furrballs
Eonwe Valar: Ready to give your member News Turgon?
TurgonjustTurgon: aye
Eonwe Valar: Go ahead
TurgonjustTurgon: brace youselves :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: I got accepted into college! :-D
ArPharazonV: *straps on seatbelt*
ArPharazonV: wow!
VardaValar1: Congrats!
ArPharazonV: congrats!
Eonwe Valar: Congrats Turgon! :}
Celebrimbor V: congrats
FladrifV: nice :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: whether or not I will be attending next year or the year after is now purely a financial question
ArPharazonV: what will you be studying?
TurgonjustTurgon: going to get a teacher's degree in English
Celebrimbor V: awesome
ArPharazonV: nice
Celebrimbor V: best of luck
ArPharazonV: teach those Dutch kids some lessons they'll never forget
Eonwe Valar: Go for it Turgon! :}
TurgonjustTurgon: when I succeed, I am qualified to correct all of your typo's :-D
ArPharazonV: not a guarantee we'll like it anyway ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Does that mean you'll do all our typing for us? What a generous guy :}
Celebrimbor V: no kidding
sauronjag: I have one more piece of web news, sorry
Celebrimbor V: sounds like we got a secretary lol
TurgonjustTurgon: well, you'll have to send me what you want me to type, so why not do it yourself Eonwe? :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Go ahead Lungorthin :}
sauronjag: The book reviews by Franco Manni have been posted on my book review website as well, so they're there for all to enjoy.
ArPharazonV: it means he'll type everything we type all over again... and completely overhauled :-)
VardaValar1: Yay, thanks Lungorthin!
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Lungorthin :} A lin kto the page is on the main index, correct?
VardaValar1: Yes
Eonwe Valar: Ok, thanks. Everyone can check it out through the link on the Index page then :}
Eonwe Valar: Any other web news before we move to Gaming?
ArPharazonV: more web news: it seems Varda and Arathorn decided to make our RP situation even worse?
FladrifV: RP?
ArPharazonV: MeO, on the forum
VardaValar1: That is kind of gaming news
VardaValar1: Text game on the Valar Guild forum
Eonwe Valar: We have a MEO Roleplay story going on on the Forum
FladrifV: ic
Eonwe Valar: bah, hearing thunder outside my window,.. may be going shortly
ArPharazonV: well, it's also part web, so ;-)
VardaValar1: Check it out. Maybe join :-)
ArPharazonV: we can never have a break, can we, guys?
ArPharazonV: just as we put our narrow plan of escape in motion, something even bigger has to show up...
FladrifV: ok I'll check it out :-)
VardaValar1: We have taken a break, just not very long ; )
ArPharazonV: and today, it had to take away Arathorn's vision!
VardaValar1: Ready for Gaming news, Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: I think this discussion is going to take a while Phar,.. unfortunately, I don't have that time :}
VardaValar1: Phar is doing spoilers ; )
ArPharazonV: what, you're telling me you haven't read it yet?
ArPharazonV: in that case, sorry
VardaValar1: Fladrif hasn't nor I
VardaValar1: I just got home for the meeting
ArPharazonV: ic

Eonwe Valar: Gaming News time: Please save this of after-meeting and do leave in transcript for me :}
ArPharazonV: ok, that's that part of the news then... and not the news I mentioned for the week I had mentioned last week and was gonna mention in this meeting
Eonwe Valar: *this for, meanign the MEO discussion
Eonwe Valar: Fladrif has gamign news?
FladrifV: sort of
FladrifV: I have discovered a program with makes posible to play online magic the gathering
FladrifV: for free
FladrifV: you have to do all the moves by your own
FladrifV: works quite nice and has all the magic cards ever made
ArPharazonV: I see it even allows you to make your own cards?
FladrifV: yes
ArPharazonV: so you can create your own overpowered decks, and use them in tournaments?
FladrifV: you can even make a valar deck ;-)
FladrifV: hehe
Eonwe Valar: interesting,.. Thanks for the info Fladrif :}
FladrifV: dunno how manny ppl play magic in here
ArPharazonV: 'hm, a free card.... hm, a 11/11 beast that gains 1/1 for every card brought into play'....
ArathornValar: not famliar myself... :/
Celebrimbor V: cool flad
VardaValar1: Sauron plays
FladrifV: so I would say go make a deck and check it out :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: can you play with those decks online?
VardaValar1: Maybe more of us now that we have your URL :-)
FladrifV: only online inside the program
ArPharazonV: brb with my news, gonna make a war3 post now....
TurgonjustTurgon: that would be good enough
FladrifV: example... I host and you can join me
TurgonjustTurgon: who wants to play in a bit? :-)
FladrifV: and play magic
TurgonjustTurgon: program doesn't seem free tho
FladrifV: works after 5 sec nag
FladrifV: havvend had problems so far
FladrifV: even posible to have the card images into the program :-)
ArPharazonV: heh, a valar deck with pictures of the members...
Eonwe Valar: Wc3 news: New Map for Frozen Throne
Eonwe Valar: Excavation site
Eonwe Valar: haven't tried it, but Phar has so he can tell you if its any good :}
ArPharazonV: well, Flad and I tried it before the meeting
ArPharazonV: it's pretty nice
ArPharazonV: we lost to a bunch of normals, and squashed a pair of easies... hadn't played in a while ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Any other gaming news?
Eonwe Valar: hehe
FladrifV: ....
ArPharazonV: it looks cool, has a few extra goldmines
FladrifV: its a fast map
ArPharazonV: a tavern in the center
ArPharazonV: yes, it's small
ArPharazonV: 1 goldmine for each player around the center
ArPharazonV: and 2 extra goldmines, on the 2 sides, surrounded by forest
Eonwe Valar: If no other Gaming News, I'll leave the Tolkien chat in Varda's hands.
ArPharazonV: and I got some small piece of news
VardaValar1: Good luck with the storm, Eonwe
ArPharazonV: something I mentioned last week in the after-after-meeting
VardaValar1: Phar, go ahead
Eonwe Valar: Thanks
Eonwe Valar: Take care all
ArPharazonV: Namarie, Eonwe
ArPharazonV: the Ringwars faq on gamefaqs has finally been updated
FladrifV: namarie
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: updated to version 1.18, I believe, one of the most recent versions
ArPharazonV: version 1.18 of the map of Ringwars, that is
ArPharazonV: that's the link to the TFT faqs, can't link directly to the faq
ArPharazonV: Lotr: Ringwars is a rather popular lotr map, and I know of at least some in the guild who play it
ArPharazonV: so, anybody wanting to become a little more familiar with it, or needing some starting idea's for the nation he/she plays, the faq is pretty useful
VardaValar1: All online gaming info is welcome. In our large group, we always have someone interested. Thanks
VardaValar1: Any other news, comments?
ArPharazonV: that's it from me
VardaValar1: Anyone else?

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: Anyone have a topic?
VardaValar1: Eonwe left us a topic
VardaValar1: In the Matrix Reloaded, the Oracle says:
VardaValar1: "You're not here to make the choice. You've already made it.
VardaValar1: You're here to
VardaValar1: understand why you made it."
VardaValar1: Eonwe asks,
ArPharazonV: sounds like gandalf
VardaValar1: Does that also apply to the Valar, in the Ainulindale?
VardaValar1: Have they already made all or most of their choices?
VardaValar1: They sang the world into existence and much of its fate therefore
VardaValar1: So do they have any choices left?
ArPharazonV: perhaps the small details... not everything could have been captured in that one music
VardaValar1: Don't some seem to have departed from it?
ArPharazonV: perhaps the music was just an outlaying of their plans, and their actual presence in Arda was to fulfill them
VardaValar1: As when they came to Arda and found nothing there but their good intentions?
VardaValar1: just mist
ArPharazonV: the Valar did not really understand the Elves and Men, so most of what those people influenced would be an unforeseen situation
VardaValar1: Aye, they were made by Eru, not the Valar
ArPharazonV: which would automatically force some departure from their original plans
ArathornValar: I don't believe that all was preordained. There's too much they don't know that Eru has not yet erlayed :-)
VardaValar1: and they feared accidentally harming Eru's children, their younger siblings.
ArPharazonV: the greatest departure perhaps being the world made round...
VardaValar1: thus preventing the Valar from being forced to take action directly against the Eruhini
ArPharazonV: but if the world being made round was such an unforeseen situation
ArPharazonV: it would make the rest of what was their plans, and thus the rest of the music, unable to be fulfilled
VardaValar1: Each knew what most of what they sang and what they sang in group, but that left a lot they didn't know individually
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar, and that was a huge change
ArPharazonV: therefore, the events of the Lord of the Rings may have been totally UNpredicted in the Music
VardaValar1: Namo knew a lot of what was coming, but Manwe did not allow him to tell a lot of it. He could tell some at special times
VardaValar1: They kept having to wait, such as waiting for Earendil to show up
VardaValar1: must have been frustrating to be so powerful, see what they could do to help, and be told they could not
ArPharazonV: hobbits and orcs were, of course, branches of the Elves and Men, and therefore their actions would have been largely unpredictable in the music.... which makes one think about the 'fate' they were talking about,
VardaValar1: They were allowed to guide a bit during LotR, but not control
ArPharazonV: and whether Bilbo finding the Ring was actually predicted in the Music
VardaValar1: Bilbo was "meant" to find the Ring, according to Gandalf
DaeTPringl: Namarie
DaeTPringl has left the room.
ArPharazonV: right, he was 'meant' to find the ring... but did it ever come forth in the Music? I would think that very unlikely
VardaValar1: A few very important events may have been set up as needed
VardaValar1: Eowyn left to rescue Bilbo in real life ; )
Celebrimbor V: well, I must take my leave
VardaValar1: Now that everyone is confused...
VardaValar1: Namarie, Celebrimbor! Good to have seen you again
Arwen V1: with sword in hand!
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
Celebrimbor V: namarie
Celebrimbor V: aye
Celebrimbor V has left the room.
VardaValar1: It's as if there were a few things set up to give Mankind a chance to fulfill their destiny, but it was up to them to do it
VardaValar1: Sauron taking over was a real possibility, to them
ArPharazonV: but if mankind, the elves, and as such the orcs and hobbits, were unpredictable, just like the downfall of Numenor and it's consequences, how could Bilbo finding the ring, and the great war that followed, have been foreseen
ArPharazonV: by the Valar at the time of the music?
VardaValar1: These events may have been set up later, as they saw the need
VardaValar1: Perhaps they saw Sauron's arising
VardaValar1: They knew something had to be done about it
VardaValar1: They saw the discords by Melkor, this could have been very visible
VardaValar1: (Fangorn-Valar says hi!)
ArPharazonV: (Aiya, Fangorn)
VardaValar1: So the Valar saw some of the big events and tried to set up for them
VardaValar1: The Ring was major
ArPharazonV: so they managed to establish that 'fate'/'destiny' for Bilbo even at that time? so many years after leaving Arda, and even far more years after the Music?
ArPharazonV: did they channel through Eru or something like that?
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: They may not have been able to set up such details in the Music, but later as it came closer

VardaValar1: Aiya Gwaihir1
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Is this Gwaihir and Gilraen?
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir and Gilraen, aye... and Aiya to you too :-)
ArPharazonV: oh, btw, when's the wedding? Are we all invited? :-D
GwaihirValar: It's still QUITE a ways away... but of course lol
VardaValar1: Eru would probably officiate for an online play wedding : )
ArathornValar: I'll bring the Escargot! :-P
ArathornValar: <joke from earlier ..heh>
GwaihirValar: digital snails... ooooohhhhhh
VardaValar1: Maybe you two can make it to the London Fellowship Festival for 2004
ArathornValar: Snails have fingers?? <snortle!>
VardaValar1: Tolkien Society and Newline Cinema are the main two partners. Some gaming outfits too
GwaihirValar: Gilraen: *chuckles* an online wedding would be... interesting... but NO SNAILS, Arathorn :-P
ArPharazonV: I'd be surprised if they had arms
VardaValar1: Haldir emceeing : )
ArathornValar: <rats... packs snails back into cooler...>
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: oooh... just got scolded by his wife-like character...
VardaValar1: A snail has a foot. Does that count?
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: sorry Arath, I'm stealing your bride ;-)
ArathornValar: true, is is a gastro-pod .. heh
VardaValar1: Poor Arathorn
GwaihirValar: Gilraen: I think feet imply toes... that near enough?
ArathornValar: I've been married before... nothign new to me :-P
VardaValar1: Trolls have no toes...
ArPharazonV: well, Arathorn, you know what to do
ArPharazonV: marry an eagle!
VardaValar1: There you go!
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: hehe... unfortunately, I'm the only Eagle here... and I'm taken already... and... I don't swing that way either, I'm afraid... sorry Arath!
ArathornValar: eagles have claws.. can they be considered fingers?
ArPharazonV: how old are you then, Arathorn?
VardaValar1: fingernails
ArPharazonV: if you've been married before?
GwaihirValar: Gilraen: Maybe Thorondor.....
VardaValar1: He's old enough to know better ; )
ArathornValar: Physically or mentally Arphy?
VardaValar1: We need some girl eagles
ArPharazonV: well, in this case, let's start with chronologically
VardaValar1: Gwaihir and Gilraen, do you think you might be able to be in London Aug 28?
GwaihirValar: Gilraen: but there are none named. Gwai checked for me, lol
ArPharazonV: so, real years
ArPharazonV: since your birth
VardaValar1: I checked too. JRRT didn't make enough girl characters
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: August 28th... nope, 'fraid not... I leave England on the 27th... :-(
ArathornValar: By one day Gwaihir.. pity :/
VardaValar1: ow on the timing
VardaValar1: Maybe Gilraen can go with family and tell us about it : )
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: aye, Landroval, Meneldor(sp?), Thorondor and myself are the only Eagles.. and of those... only one could POSSIBLY be female... (one is myself, one is mentioned to be male(Thorondor), one is my brother...)
ArPharazonV: take pictures and post them on the web!
ArPharazonV: so, Meneldor could be female?
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: It's vaguely possible, but extremely unlikely...
ArPharazonV: very possibly?
ArPharazonV: ic
VardaValar1: Unrelated event, Elwing-V's birthday was the 19th
ArPharazonV: Congrats
ArPharazonV: hey, Elwing was part bird...
ArPharazonV: how about her? ;-)
GwaihirValar: Gilraen: *chuckles* I doubt I'll be fit for company that weekend, I'm afraid
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: hehe, I was just thinking that too when you mentioned her
VardaValar1: She's been writing Tolkien fic for us, and aye, she does fly to see Earendil in the stories. She's the Dawn
VardaValar1: It is a long weekend event, could be something to tell Gwaihir and all of us about
VardaValar1: Tell Eru to go : )
ArPharazonV: was there a named ent-wife, btw?
VardaValar1: yes
VardaValar1: Fimbrethil
GwaihirValar: yes, fimbrethil
VardaValar1: wife of Fangorn
VardaValar1: I was considering using that name ; )
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: I don't think either of us will be fit for much company that weekend... I'm afraid... heh
ArPharazonV: we were thinking about a name for Flad's girlfriend, should she want to join ;-)
VardaValar1: Okie dokie. I know if we were close we'd go if we had to drag ourselves in a cart, heh
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: ahhh.... I see
GwaihirValar: Gilraen: It's in london?
VardaValar1: Yes
VardaValar1: The info is on the News page complete with link
VardaValar1: in case you change your mind
GwaihirValar: Gilraen: Yea, I noticed the link but didn't read about it..... thanks
VardaValar1: If nothing else, neat pics : )
VardaValar1: A bunch of cast and characters from the movies are supposed to go
VardaValar1: Both artists!
GwaihirValar: Gilraen: hehe, neat pics are always good
VardaValar1: Alan Lee and John Howe
VardaValar1: Tolkien Society will be holding workshops too
ArPharazonV: hmm... still wondering if Alan Lee and Christopher are related..
VardaValar1: and there's a Tolkien Quiz. We need Valar for it : )
ArPharazonV: in my eyes they look a tiny tiny tiny bit the same
VardaValar1: You can probably check online
VardaValar1: and Stan Lee ; )
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: aww... I wish I could get there... I've had my hand in trivia a bit ;-)
ArathornValar: Well, off to make supper, then game. Enjoy the after-meeting all.. Namarie!
VardaValar1: You sure have : )
VardaValar1: Namarie
ArPharazonV: Namarie
VardaValar1: The chat does seem to have degenerated into after-meeting : )
ArPharazonV: what were we talking about? ah yes, Valar, music, destiny
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: Varda... I think you mis-typed the link... both of the links on that day's news lead to the HoME description page on the encyclopedia
VardaValar1: We were discussing whether Valar had free choice
VardaValar1: arrgh
VardaValar1: Thanks
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: my pleasure
sauronjag: Sorry all, my RA had to talk with me about some housing problem.. but now I have to go meet someone so namarie all
GwaihirValar: Namarie
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VardaValar1: Namarie
ArPharazonV: hmm... checking the web now... both seem to have been born and raised in London, but nothing about their families....
VardaValar1: Letter with original link erased, so I'll dig it up. May be in bookmarks
ArPharazonV: yes!
ArPharazonV: He intially protested to director Peter Jackson about "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King" because the long scene he was set to be in was cut.
ArPharazonV: He and Jackson peaceably settled this matter, however, and this scene will be on the Special Edition DVD that will come out late in 2004.
ArPharazonV: the Voice of Saruman will be on the extended edition!
VardaValar1: That was settled a while back, I thought.
VardaValar1: Also looking forward to the Mouth of Sauron scene : )
ArPharazonV: I wasn't sure of the appearance of Saruman's scene on the dvd
VardaValar1: Try the link I just put up, Gil and Gwai
VardaValar1: That's great : )
ArPharazonV: I knew about the Mouth of Sauron, though
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: I just noticed something... odd... and a bit disturbing... *sighs* Snaga / Sharku / Ringwraith (they seem to have discerned a difference between Sharku and Saruman in the movie)
VardaValar1: What diff did they make?
GwaihirValar: a different actor.
VardaValar1: That's weird.
GwaihirValar: Jed Brophy Snaga / Sharku / Ringwraith
ArPharazonV: Sharku? in the movie?
GwaihirValar: he played all 3
GwaihirValar: whoever Sharku was
ArPharazonV: Saruman was Sharky, wasn't he?
GwaihirValar: yup
VardaValar1: ahh, you are looking at the Fellowship 2004 page
ArPharazonV: and only in the Scouring?
GwaihirValar: which was derived from Sharku(Old Man) in Orcish
VardaValar1: The Scouring is not in the movies
GwaihirValar: aye
GwaihirValar: that's why I'm wondering who was called 'Sharku'
VardaValar1: Aye, Saruman was Sharku, Sharky
ArPharazonV: perhaps that leading Orc in Minas Tirith was called Sharku...
VardaValar1: But since it means "Old Man", maybe it was used in a diff context
VardaValar1: They used other names in odd places, such as Eothain, made him into a boy
GwaihirValar: aye
VardaValar1: Just needed a name
ArPharazonV: O2AG&vi=pictures&img=14#more-pictures
GwaihirValar: But I'm rather curious as to who'd have an Orcish name *chuckles*
ArPharazonV: it's that warg-guy
ArPharazonV: at the fight where Aragorn fell off the cliff
VardaValar1: Sure enough, that's the toy they show
VardaValar1: At least he's an Orc : )
GwaihirValar: ah
GwaihirValar: heh, ya
VardaValar1: The one that had Aragorn's Evenstar
GwaihirValar: but he doesn't seem particularly old :-)
VardaValar1: Not a spring chicken either : )
ArPharazonV: as Varda said, they might just have needed a name...
ArPharazonV: how amazing what you find if you type 'Sharku' in the search engine...
ArPharazonV: the exact description of Sharku in the movie
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ArPharazonV: and a screenshot ;-)
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: bah... I almost wish I were able to make it to the trivia... see how well I could do... heh
ArPharazonV: no, that's just a model
TurgonjustTurgon: this looks cool :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: already won a duel against Flad :-)
GwaihirValar: Gilraen: *chuckles* if only we'd known earlier, we coulda re-arranged the dates to fit it in....
VardaValar1: patriotresource looks like it has a photo
ArPharazonV: and here's the main site for Sharku-fans....
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: And then I could've been slaughtered at the trivia by the Tolkien scholars who'll prolly be entering! ;-)
VardaValar1: That's a neat Diorama though, even added clouds
ArPharazonV: you guys could at this to the links
ArPharazonV: or do you already have it?
VardaValar1: heh, he talks
ArPharazonV: Turgon's trying the excavation site?
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ArPharazonV: I don't think you have that fansite in the links, do you?
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArPharazonV: well, there's another piece of news for you, in that case ;-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Uruviel's Argonath
VardaValar1: There are thousands of fansites, don't put all of them
VardaValar1: You recommend?
ArPharazonV: well, it seems to hold a lot of info about the movies at least, for further recommendations I'd have to study it a bit more....
VardaValar1: Just Legolas fansites would fill our webspace ; )
ArPharazonV: well, info.. mostly pictures and stuff
ArPharazonV: and some pieces of information about almost every figure in the movies ;-)
ArPharazonV: hmm... don't remember seeing him in the movies...
VardaValar1: Google helps find most sites we want, it seems
GwaihirValar: useful search engine
ArPharazonV: I use searchalot
ArPharazonV: 'we search a lot so you don't have to' :-D
ArPharazonV: google... pffh..
ArPharazonV: hmm... there seems to be info about a lot more characters than just those of the movies.... even Glorfindel is mentioned!
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: wow! *cowers in fear* ;-)
ArPharazonV: this seems like a pretty good site... don't know if you'll find much actual book-info, though...
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ArPharazonV: not to mention the fact that it's still under construction, and the last update was this sunday (so, today, for those not living in my timezone)
ArPharazonV: so it should get even better
ArPharazonV: and for all you south park fans out there :-D
Arwen V1: I need to go, folks
GwaihirValar: Namarie!
VardaValar1 has left the room.
GwaihirValar: take care
Arwen V1: Namarie =)
ArPharazonV: Namarie
Arwen V1: say byebye to Varda for me please?
Arwen V1: =)
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ArPharazonV: wow, this sounds cool... I think I'm going to see if I can download this southpark-episode from kazaa or something ;-)
FINARFIN010: well folks looks like i missed the meeting agin... and everone is off ?someplace? so i am going to play a bit and lvl up my mule. Namarie all.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya. Our internet disconnected, pardon
FINARFIN010: wb varda
ArPharazonV: so, Varda, wadda ya think? is the site worth putting in the links?
VardaValar1: Thanks
VardaValar1: Just movie stuff? Maybe in movie section
VardaValar1: You recommend?
Orodreth V:
Orodreth V: That has much stuff, and if you notice something missing you can add it.
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ArPharazonV: sure, I recommend... it's one of the better movie-fansites I've seen out there, and it's still under construction even
Orodreth V: I find the as a whole the encyc of arda has more info, though.
ArPharazonV: not that I've seen that many movie-sites, but this one seems to be one of potential
VardaValar1: How do you feel ours compares to Encyc of Arda on info?
Orodreth V: Found some interesting stuff about Orodreth, which I need to look into eventually.
FINARFIN010 has entered the room.
FINARFIN010: back
VardaValar1: wb
FINARFIN010: :-)
Orodreth V: Ours generaly has more infor on a particular subject, but not as many subjects.
VardaValar1: You guys want me to start dressing up the Encyc to look like these others?
VardaValar1: With as many Tolkien experts as we have, you'd think we'd have tons
FINARFIN010: tons of what?
VardaValar1: Start filling in your favorites, guys : )
VardaValar1: tons of info in our Encyc
FINARFIN010: ahhhh
ArPharazonV: I feel that information is more important than fancy graphics when it comes to an encyclopedia, even when online
Orodreth V: Well, wikipedia is all GNU'd, so it's a great resource.
VardaValar1: We have lots of experts, so we should be able to put up info
VardaValar1: If we each did our own characters, we'd have a fantastic site
FINARFIN010: with experts it is seldom they go to an encyclopedia.
VardaValar1: What is GNU?
Orodreth V: Wait.
Orodreth V: I said that wrong.
VardaValar1: Part of our mission is to make the Tolkien Encyc
VardaValar1: We have helped a lot of folks with it
FINARFIN010: :-)
VardaValar1: Artists, anime movie guys, writers, people writing papers for school, the curious
Orodreth V: Oh.
Orodreth V: It is GNU.
Orodreth V:
Orodreth V: It's copyleft.
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: Note, Wikipedia takes donations
FINARFIN010: so do i hehe
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: does this mean we can use any additional info we find in there, in our encyc?
VardaValar1: Maybe we should donate to some of our guys who put up servers and buy the domain name
Orodreth V: Yes.
VardaValar1: Phar, we don't plagiarize
Orodreth V: It's not.
ArPharazonV: no strings attached? just give them a few credits, and we're homefree?
Orodreth V: As long as you attach the GNU licence to it, it's free to use.
Orodreth V: And modify.
VardaValar1: We use online to help us figure out what to write, but we check against the original Tolkien source material, then write in our own words
Orodreth V: You can even charge for it.
VardaValar1: We will probably put a link to it. What more do we need? : )
VardaValar1: Sure hope someone else is saving this aftermeeting.
ArPharazonV: anyway, I recommend Uruviel's Argonath,, for the movie-section... I'm not that familiar with the community on the web, so my recommendation may not be worth much
VardaValar1: I said my piece on it, as editor of our group encyc : )
ArPharazonV: I'll be saving the transcript from the moment I came in here
FINARFIN010: nice. thanks Ar
ArPharazonV: I wasn't the first, for that you would have to ask Turgon
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ArPharazonV: but I was one of the people gathering here before the meeting
ArPharazonV: Aiya
FINARFIN010: did Eru come today?
Chugin Chub: back :-)
ArPharazonV: I haven't seen Eru yet
Chugin Chub: <----- is thror :-)
FINARFIN010: hey there Thror
Chugin Chub: how are u?
ArPharazonV: so, 13 people here, and of those 13, 9 are afk?
Chugin Chub: somehting like that :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya
VardaValar1: We are in After-meeting
Chugin Chub: hello varda nice to see u :-)
VardaValar1: Haven't seen Eru this time
Orodreth V: looking over the GNU licence.
VardaValar1: You too, Thror : )
VardaValar1: For after-meeting, this is a huge mob : )
FINARFIN010: i love mobs
Chugin Chub: i been on d2 but afk a good number of times :-P
FINARFIN010: remindes me of the time we all gathered on the beaches to watch the sailing of the white ships heh
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: reminds me of the time my entire fleet encompassed Tol Eressea on our way to Valinor :-D
FINARFIN010: ahhh the white ships... they blocked they waves as far as the eye could see.
ArPharazonV: anyway, brb, gonna make a new post in the war3 forum-game, I'm trying to keep the Dark Ranger alive...
VardaValar1: That movie page tells which elves were in the movie
VardaValar1: even Figwit : )
VardaValar1: I think he has his own fan page
ArPharazonV: :-)
GwaihirValar: he does
GwaihirValar: Gilraen: I think... I may still have the link somewhere
GwaihirValar: nope, not that link... hmm
GwaihirValar: ahh
ArPharazonV: so, post made... Dark Ranger's back on 20 hp... no doubt she'll have lost at least 5 when I come back tomorrow, because KrewLRain seems determined to wipe her out....
FINARFIN010: lol I love alf
ArPharazonV: heh
ArPharazonV: and to think that a week ago she was approaching 50 hp... sigh...
VardaValar1: Alien Life Form aka Alf
FINARFIN010: hehe
ArPharazonV: I could have sworn it had another meaning...
FINARFIN010: hey i did not see erestor in the list of elves..
GwaihirValar: Gilraen: hehe, the figwit site is disturbing Gwai
FINARFIN010: you go Gwaihir
FINARFIN010: hehe
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: *flies away* disturbing website can't chase me into the skies.... I hope,
VardaValar1: I was looking at Haldir animations, no Erestor? silly folk
ArPharazonV: Turgon, on the Men-page??
ArPharazonV: no Pharazon, though
VardaValar1: Someone needs to email them about that, eh Turgon?
GwaihirValar: Gwaihir: well... many other Elves had impersonators among the Race of Man... why not Turgon?
ArPharazonV: Coming soon: Gatekeeper at Bree
ArPharazonV: wow, this surely is detailed
ArPharazonV: who is Guma??
ArPharazonV: Race: Man of RohanOther info: Guma is a plains farmer.
ArPharazonV: ah, some guy in the crowd evacuating to Helm's Deep
GwaihirValar has left the room.
FINARFIN010: who uses windows xp?
Orodreth V: ..I do.
ArPharazonV: I do
Orodreth V: /me cries
FINARFIN010: check this:After a year or more of preparation, home users can now get their hands on the SP2 security update for Windows XP.
Orodreth V: Heard about that.
FINARFIN010: go to :
Orodreth V: I've yet to make any updates on Windows.
Orodreth V: I might in a week or two.
Orodreth V: Dunno.
FINARFIN010: :-)
FINARFIN010: it is about time they fixed their backdoors.
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FINARFIN010: well i am going to play for a bit
FINARFIN010: Namarie
FINARFIN010 has left the room.
Chugin Chub: namarie :-)
Chugin Chub: o late
Chugin Chub: if only these fat dwarf fingers could type faster
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
Chugin Chub: wb
VardaValar1: Storms around us, unstable
VardaValar1: Hantal
Chugin Chub: do u live around el paso?
VardaValar1: Other end of Texas
VardaValar1: North of Houston, Space City
Chugin Chub: o cause my folks went to el paso for a week
VardaValar1: Very different there
VardaValar1: Even a different time zone
VardaValar1: I've been there
VardaValar1: Houston is in the semi-tropics by the Gulf of Mexico. El Paso is in the Chihuahua Desert
VardaValar1: Today's geographical trivia
VardaValar1: Finarfin crash or leave?
Orodreth V: "An unprotected computer is usualy attacked within 20 minutes.."
ArPharazonV: he's going to play for a bit
VardaValar1: Good for him
VardaValar1: We got a dog last night
VardaValar1: stray labrador puppy
ArPharazonV: how cyyyute
VardaValar1: He truly is : )
ArPharazonV: a puppy....
Orodreth V: I've gotten all of one virus in all my years of using the 'net.
Orodreth V: And I've never had AV or Firewall stuff.
VardaValar1: Wish I could say that : )
Orodreth V: I've had cable for..a year? Two?
Orodreth V: But, yea.
ArPharazonV: last week or so, I randomly ran my virusscanner... it came up with 2 different viruses
ArPharazonV: no I've got it running daily
ArPharazonV: *now
Orodreth V: I have no firewall that I know of.
Orodreth V: Same thing for a virus scanner.
VardaValar1: Bet you have adware
Orodreth V: I dunno if my cable provider has a magical, non-interfering divine-protection hidden firewall or what.
Orodreth V: Not that I've ever noticed.
ArPharazonV: or it's just been shear good luck ;-)
ArPharazonV: *sheer
Orodreth V: I could download adaware and check, I suppose.
ArPharazonV: *shear.. what is it?
Orodreth V: sheer
ArPharazonV: thnx
VardaValar1: sheer
VardaValar1: shear is to cut
ArPharazonV: isn't shearing what you do to sheep?
VardaValar1: yes
VardaValar1: shear the wool off
ArPharazonV: so, basically, shaving
VardaValar1: in that case yes
VardaValar1: Canids have shearing teeth, the ones on the sides
ArPharazonV: and when you're working on your garden? you 'shear'?
VardaValar1: Yes
VardaValar1: Phar, you have the after-meeting saved?
Orodreth V: Trying Ad-Aware SE now.
VardaValar1: good : )
ArPharazonV: I will save, before I leave
VardaValar1: save as you go too, in case of crash
Orodreth V: I think I was here before the meeting starred.
Orodreth V: started.
ArPharazonV: I never seem to crash, so it should be safe...
VardaValar1: I have nearly everything until the crash
ArPharazonV: ok, I'll save it now...
Orodreth V: Yea.
VardaValar1: We are way out on the end of the phone line, at the edge of the DSL
Orodreth V: I came here before 3:45.
Orodreth V: And I have it all.
VardaValar1: Don't need that much : )
VardaValar1: 3:45 which time zone/
VardaValar1: ?
Orodreth V: 55K objects scanned and 40 objects found.
Orodreth V: central.
VardaValar1: ahh, same as mine
Orodreth V: 41/64K
Orodreth V: Not bad.
ArPharazonV: ad-aware.... let's see...
Orodreth V: 41/75K
Orodreth V: 41 objects. And I never have scanned this computer to my knowledge.
Orodreth V: Now at 100,000. Still 41.
ArPharazonV: now over 100 k... 14 objects...
ArPharazonV: 14 out of 108814 files
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Orodreth V: 41...and I've had this for over 7 months.
Orodreth V: And never scanned.
ArPharazonV: I scanned it 1 or 2 weeks ago :-)
Orodreth V: Up to 47.
Orodreth V: I got this middle of Feb.
Orodreth V: So about 7 months, yea.
Orodreth V: Wow.
Orodreth V: 50.
Orodreth V: I'm suprised.
Orodreth V: Still, I have less then you when you consider how long I've had this.
Orodreth V: 71 total out of over 120K objects.
ArPharazonV: well, chances are I've had most of these things before....
Chugin Chub has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: so who knows what our totals would be
ArPharazonV: wb, Thror
ArPharazonV: anyhow, I'm leaving, gotta go to bed
ArPharazonV: Namarie, y'all!
FladrifV: namarie
ArPharazonV: I'm saving now, anybody who wants to speak his last words for the transcript, say them now!
ArPharazonV: ok, it ends here
(Arathorn's transcript):
ArPharazonV (7:55:17 PM): saved
VardaValar1 (7:56:18 PM): Thanks
VardaValar1 (7:56:32 PM): May Irmo send you fun dreams : )
ArPharazonV (7:59:29 PM): Sent
ArPharazonV (7:59:34 PM): did you receive it?
(8:03:20 PM) Orodreth V has left the room.
ArPharazonV (8:04:21 PM): Varda?
ArPharazonV (8:06:34 PM): ok, Namarie all
ArPharazonV (8:06:42 PM): 'll see you's later :-)
(8:07:01 PM) ArPharazonV has left the room.
(8:15:24 PM) TurgonjustTurgon has left the room.
(8:18:56 PM) Chugin Chub has left the room.
VardaValar1 (8:18:59 PM): Namarie
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