Valar Guild

April 18, 2004 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST, 22:00 GMT
Meeting Begins 
Membership News
    Idril-V, new full member, gave her few words. From Pennsylvania, USA
    Idril-TV, new Tolkien-only member. From Germany.
    Barahir-V, left guild, said real life took too much time to let him be active in the guild.
    Passwording. If you are a full member and didn't receive the passwording email, email Varda.
Web Weaving
    Tolkien Encyclopedia:
       Languages: new section added for Translations. New navigation tools.
       Pictures: wanted, original work, including collages, to illustrate Tolkien-inspired Articles, Stories, Poems, Humor, and to add to the Art page.
       Authors pages: Authors pages being created to reach across all sections and tell their articles, stories, etc. Some are up. Stories page is farthest along.
       Poetry: still in progress, putting each poem on a separate page and doing navigation as each is added.
       Varda's main computer went down tonight, after making "upgrades". Now operating with secondary computer.
    WC3/TFT Beta Competition. More info straight from Blizzard and help for crashes found on News page.
     Members tried to gather on Westfall in channel Valar to form guild branch for beta. (Varda crashed, can't even pull up WC3 after Westfall update, at least 4 others made it there, needed 8.)
    WoW news from Eonwe
    Question from Ar-Pharazon: Who and what race is King Bladorthin? Hobbit, ch. 12. Ar-Pharazon might write short article.
    Topic from Varda: What contribution did each member of the Fellowship make to the team and story?

(3:56:41 PM)ArPharazonV has entered the room.
(3:56:41 PM)GwaihirValar has entered the room.
(3:56:41 PM)MaglorV has entered the room.
(3:56:41 PM)Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
(3:56:41 PM)V Idril V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV(3:56:44 PM): Aiya
VardaValar1(3:56:48 PM): Aiya
MaglorV(3:56:49 PM): Aiya
GwaihirValar(3:56:50 PM): hey Varda
VardaValar1(3:57:18 PM): I show a few minutes yet
GwaihirValar(3:57:25 PM): aye
Eonwe Valar(3:57:28 PM): ok :}
Eonwe Valar(3:57:43 PM): glad to finally get chance to meet you, Idril :}
V Idril V(3:57:50 PM): me too
GwaihirValar(3:58:05 PM): We're hoping to set up our Westfall temporary Guild branch before the tourney starts....
(3:58:09 PM)FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
FarmerMaggotV(3:58:14 PM): Aiya
GwaihirValar(3:58:19 PM): so anyone with wc3 needs to get on Westfall
ArPharazonV(3:58:22 PM): I'm in then!
ArPharazonV(3:58:25 PM): no?
ArPharazonV(3:58:27 PM): *now?
VardaValar1(3:58:28 PM): When is the tourney?
Eonwe Valar(3:58:32 PM): Tuesday
GwaihirValar(3:58:35 PM): Well, tourney is for the next few weeks
Eonwe Valar(3:58:35 PM): evening
VardaValar1(3:58:39 PM): Thanks
ArPharazonV(3:58:40 PM): 1 week, I think
GwaihirValar(3:58:41 PM): but this is the most likely time we'll be able to set it up
Eonwe Valar(3:58:49 PM): if we can gather enough tonight that'd be great, but I think I'm asking much :}
VardaValar1(3:59:00 PM): How many do you need?
FarmerMaggotV(3:59:01 PM): D2 and D2x are coming some time this week =D
ArPharazonV(3:59:01 PM): well, I'm logging in then....
GwaihirValar(3:59:03 PM): 8 more
GwaihirValar(3:59:14 PM): myself and Eonwe are already on Westfall in channel Valar
Eonwe Valar(3:59:15 PM): same for the regular branch: 10
MaglorV(3:59:29 PM): I have WC3, and would like to join you, but I also have exams on Mon and Wed
MaglorV(3:59:33 PM):
VardaValar1(3:59:45 PM): Luckily there will be other days : )
GwaihirValar(3:59:48 PM): Maglor, you don't have to participate in the Blizzard tourney
ArPharazonV(3:59:51 PM): I would like to join, but won't be available the full time I think
GwaihirValar(3:59:56 PM): we just need as many people so we can ACTUALLY get the branch setup
MaglorV(3:59:57 PM): Id like to though L)
MaglorV(4:00:01 PM):  *
ArPharazonV(4:00:04 PM): I sure want to get that beta spot....
GwaihirValar(4:00:10 PM): Phara, the way the tourney works
GwaihirValar(4:00:12 PM): you play as much as you can
(4:00:13 PM)ThorondorV has entered the room.
VardaValar1(4:00:14 PM): Just be there long enough to be counted, heh
VardaValar1(4:00:16 PM): Aiya
ThorondorV(4:00:17 PM): Heya all
GwaihirValar(4:00:21 PM): whichever clan has the highest ranking
GwaihirValar(4:00:26 PM): wins
ArPharazonV(4:00:30 PM): ok, then I'll spend all my free gaming time on War3
MaglorV(4:00:36 PM): me too
GwaihirValar(4:00:37 PM): But first we need to get the clan set up
GwaihirValar(4:00:53 PM): which is why we're asking for all tft people to get onto Westfall
ArPharazonV(4:00:53 PM): putting cd in pc...
GwaihirValar(4:01:22 PM): *grins* I'm glad my last exam is tomorrow morning
GwaihirValar(4:01:27 PM): will give me LOTS of free time to game
MaglorV(4:01:34 PM): lucky you
(4:01:42 PM)bnetValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1(4:02:01 PM): If we can just get together and have fun, we win!
FarmerMaggotV(4:02:03 PM): whoa, surprisingly the bridge connected :D
GwaihirValar(4:02:07 PM): hehe
GwaihirValar(4:02:21 PM): aye, we win... but we don't win the beta spots
ArPharazonV(4:02:24 PM): my exams will continue for a month... not to mention the re-exams
GwaihirValar(4:02:28 PM): ouch
ArPharazonV(4:02:30 PM): but I can make time
MaglorV(4:02:47 PM): hehe, my last is wed afternoon, so ill be good to go, after that
GwaihirValar(4:02:53 PM): not that the beta's really important to me... but it'd be nice to have the recognition that winning the beta spots would give us
MaglorV(4:02:58 PM): i might make a bit of time before that
GwaihirValar(4:03:25 PM): people would marvel at the relatively unknown clan that doesn't put focus on gaming who won the tourney
VardaValar1(4:03:37 PM): hehe
ArPharazonV(4:03:38 PM): yes, recognition would be nice... haven't found any of us in the ladder on the web....
GwaihirValar(4:03:45 PM): I was for a while, Phara...
GwaihirValar(4:03:52 PM): but I hit a bad lucks treak
ArPharazonV(4:03:58 PM): too bad...
GwaihirValar(4:04:02 PM): and then stopped playing melee
GwaihirValar(4:04:05 PM): a looong time ago
GwaihirValar(4:04:06 PM): lol
(4:04:09 PM)ArathornValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV(4:04:13 PM): ah, here we go... downloading
GwaihirValar(4:04:16 PM): but the new patch may resurrect that
ArPharazonV(4:04:17 PM): Aiya
GwaihirValar(4:04:21 PM): hey Arathorn
VardaValar1(4:04:45 PM): Aiya
VardaValar1(4:05:01 PM): Still inviting people in
ArPharazonV(4:05:16 PM): who's in the invited list?
ArPharazonV(4:05:59 PM): ah.. finally got to add a number 52 in my buddy list  Thanks Idril, for joining us
ArPharazonV(4:06:45 PM): 60 %....
GwaihirValar(4:06:59 PM): I just got on Azeroth to chekc if anyone was on my flisst
GwaihirValar(4:07:00 PM): list*
GwaihirValar(4:07:01 PM): lol
ArPharazonV(4:07:33 PM): 80
GwaihirValar(4:07:36 PM): now redownloading patch
GwaihirValar(4:07:36 PM): lol
ArPharazonV(4:08:14 PM): seems like every percent takes longer to download...
GwaihirValar(4:08:18 PM): hehe
GwaihirValar(4:08:22 PM): that
GwaihirValar(4:08:27 PM): is just because you're watchnig it
ArathornValar(4:08:45 PM): Aiya... will be popping in and out... supper
GwaihirValar(4:08:51 PM): with anticipation clouding your vision
(4:09:08 PM)Lady Fallun has entered the room.
VardaValar1(4:09:12 PM): Aiya
ArPharazonV(4:09:15 PM): right... like I did not watch the first 50 %
ArPharazonV(4:09:17 PM): Aiya
Lady Fallun(4:09:25 PM): Aiya
GwaihirValar(4:09:28 PM): hey there, dearest
Lady Fallun(4:09:34 PM): Hi ^_^
ThorondorV(4:10:21 PM): Heyhey
VardaValar1(4:10:24 PM): Invited all I could spot
VardaValar1(4:10:31 PM): Mostly they are away
VardaValar1(4:10:35 PM): work and such
Eonwe Valar(4:10:49 PM): check out the clan list as well Gwaihir :} see if you can drag any of them over the Westfall :}
ArPharazonV(4:10:50 PM): it necessary to review the rules and such, before creating my new account?
GwaihirValar(4:11:06 PM): what do you mean?
GwaihirValar(4:11:20 PM): Blizzard's ToS?
ArPharazonV(4:11:21 PM): when I create a new account in Westfall
ArPharazonV(4:11:26 PM): yes
ArPharazonV(4:11:29 PM): Terms of Use
GwaihirValar(4:11:30 PM): you need to slide the slider down to the bottom
GwaihirValar(4:11:37 PM): lol
GwaihirValar(4:11:40 PM): when it reaches the end
GwaihirValar(4:11:45 PM): it allows you to push 'ok'
ArPharazonV(4:11:47 PM): yes, but is there anything unusual or important in the text?
GwaihirValar(4:11:52 PM): nothing new
GwaihirValar(4:11:56 PM): I don't think
ArPharazonV(4:12:00 PM): ok, then I'll slide...
ArPharazonV(4:13:00 PM): I'm in!
ArathornValar(4:13:09 PM): er.. V Idril V, Which Idril are you? I have two IDs for AIM and neither are yours ... I have 'Idril1970' and 'narthais'... neither of which are logged on...
VardaValar1(4:14:25 PM): Arathorn, might check email. She's Idril-V
Eonwe Valar(4:14:34 PM): Well, it says your character desciption and name are now the property of blizzard, but since the name and any TOlkien-related description you put in are already owned, I wouldn't worry about that too much :}
ArPharazonV(4:14:46 PM): :P
ArathornValar(4:14:48 PM): I did... neither I got had this current ID as an AIM id...
Eonwe Valar(4:15:01 PM): but a real picky lawyer might be able to make a bundle off of that one,.. hmmm :}
ThorondorV(4:15:13 PM): hehe
GwaihirValar(4:15:19 PM): it depends on which side had the better lawyer
ArPharazonV(4:15:22 PM): ouch my eyes....
ArPharazonV(4:15:28 PM): Thorondor shining yellow
GwaihirValar(4:15:33 PM): for me too hehe
GwaihirValar(4:15:42 PM): Our big Eagle just loves to shine *chuckles*
(4:15:42 PM)sauronjag has entered the room.
VardaValar1(4:15:49 PM): aiya
ThorondorV(4:15:54 PM): Sorry, I see myself as red
sauronjag(4:15:57 PM): Heyas, sorry.. can't get this stupid aol to work
GwaihirValar(4:15:58 PM): aye
GwaihirValar(4:16:03 PM): everyone sees everyone else differnetly
Eonwe Valar(4:16:10 PM): suing blizzard on behalf of the TOlkien Estate because their TOS claims ownership of and the right to use Tolkiens characters and names for a profit? :}
GwaihirValar(4:16:11 PM): it's just a coincidence that two of us see you yellow
MaglorV(4:16:33 PM): I see yellow too
MaglorV(4:16:35 PM):
ArPharazonV(4:16:40 PM): does everybody see themselves as red?
Eonwe Valar(4:16:40 PM): I see yellow Eagle :}
GwaihirValar(4:16:45 PM): not for a profit! but for the principle of the matter!
GwaihirValar(4:16:47 PM):
GwaihirValar(4:17:03 PM): it's just a massive coincidence
GwaihirValar(4:17:03 PM): then
Eonwe Valar(4:17:04 PM): apparently Pharazon :}
GwaihirValar(4:17:04 PM): lol
GwaihirValar(4:17:11 PM): everyone sees themself as red
GwaihirValar(4:17:24 PM): does everyone see Phara as blue?
Lady Fallun(4:17:29 PM): Yes
MaglorV(4:17:32 PM): i do
GwaihirValar(4:17:36 PM): so they actually uniformalized it
Eonwe Valar(4:17:50 PM): I do
ArPharazonV(4:17:53 PM): I'd say the color depends on your own name in the list, the position in which you enter
MaglorV(4:17:53 PM): lol, "uniformalized"
GwaihirValar(4:17:55 PM): is maglor green?
GwaihirValar(4:18:04 PM): ay,e it's been made uniform
ArPharazonV(4:18:05 PM): everybody has Gwaihir as green, I'd say
GwaihirValar(4:18:09 PM): ah yes
Eonwe Valar(4:18:10 PM): Maglor is pink,.. Gwaihir is green
MaglorV(4:18:21 PM): oohh, pink
MaglorV(4:18:22 PM): lol
GwaihirValar(4:18:26 PM): you're green to me
Lady Fallun(4:18:26 PM): nope... MaglorV: GwaihirValar
Eonwe Valar(4:18:32 PM): And anybody you whisper to is blue :}
GwaihirValar(4:18:36 PM): and Eo is pink
ArPharazonV(4:18:36 PM): that too
ThorondorV(4:18:39 PM): Did it change now, or just the text font?
GwaihirValar(4:18:40 PM): first person is red
GwaihirValar(4:18:44 PM): ie. you
ArPharazonV(4:18:45 PM): Lady Fallun: nope... MaglorV: GwaihirValar
GwaihirValar(4:18:50 PM): second is blue
GwaihirValar(4:18:52 PM): third is green
GwaihirValar(4:18:54 PM): fourth is pink
VardaValar1(4:19:01 PM): sorry, many IM"s
ArPharazonV(4:19:03 PM): fifth is green again, I'd say
VardaValar1(4:19:14 PM): Ready to start meeting?
ArPharazonV(4:19:16 PM): ok
ThorondorV(4:19:18 PM): Copy/paste my name, please, I want to see the terrible yellow myself.
ArPharazonV(4:19:26 PM): ThorondorV: Copy/paste my name, please, I want to see the terrible yellow myself.
MaglorV(4:19:27 PM): ThorondorV
ThorondorV(4:19:31 PM): Ouchh
VardaValar1(4:19:36 PM): IM to each other for private conversations please

VardaValar1(4:19:44 PM): Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

VardaValar1(4:19:51 PM): Member News:
VardaValar1(4:20:08 PM): Two new members this week, one full member who is with us today
VardaValar1(4:20:13 PM): Idril-V
V Idril V(4:20:14 PM): :D
ArPharazonV(4:20:26 PM): yep, green...
VardaValar1(4:20:33 PM): Idril, would you like to say a few words to introduce yourself?
V Idril V(4:20:40 PM): umm ok
V Idril V(4:21:19 PM): hiya everyone im from pittsburgh pa uhh been playing diablo 1, 2, 2x for hmm some years :\
V Idril V(4:21:22 PM): anddd
V Idril V(4:21:38 PM): im in love with everyhtin tolkien :D
GwaihirValar(4:21:52 PM): aww... that means she's in love with all of us
V Idril V(4:21:56 PM): lol
Eonwe Valar(4:22:04 PM): There's alot of love in this room :}
VardaValar1(4:22:05 PM): You can only hope : )
ArPharazonV(4:22:09 PM): we love you too
GwaihirValar(4:22:09 PM): *chuckles*
MaglorV(4:22:10 PM): haha
ThorondorV(4:22:12 PM): hehe
Lady Fallun(4:22:14 PM): *sigh* speak for yourself guys
(4:22:15 PM)HuanofValar has entered the room.
(4:22:26 PM)GaldorV has entered the room.
VardaValar1(4:22:32 PM): Aiya : )
ArPharazonV(4:22:37 PM): Aiya Aiya
GwaihirValar(4:22:39 PM): *pokes Fallun* cheer up
MaglorV(4:22:39 PM): Aiya
ThorondorV(4:22:42 PM): Heya Galdor and Huan
GwaihirValar(4:22:45 PM): hey
GaldorV(4:22:50 PM): Aiya, just stopping in for a min
(4:22:52 PM)Shaggyjoe has entered the room.
VardaValar1(4:22:59 PM): Meet our new member, Idril : )
VardaValar1(4:23:01 PM): aiya
GaldorV(4:23:05 PM): I have already
Shaggyjoe(4:23:07 PM): good evening
V Idril V(4:23:11 PM): aiya
GwaihirValar(4:23:18 PM): Anyone here who isn't on Westfall have wc3:tft?
VardaValar1(4:23:24 PM): We also have a new Tolkien-only member, Idril-TV from Germany
GaldorV(4:23:35 PM): Two Idrils ?/
VardaValar1(4:23:40 PM): Barahir has left the guild, real life keeping him too busy
ArPharazonV(4:23:41 PM): Idril's pretty popular...
VardaValar1(4:23:50 PM): Tolkien-only is not the same as a full member
ArPharazonV(4:23:55 PM): too busy to check in once a month?
GaldorV(4:23:55 PM): Ok then
VardaValar1(4:23:58 PM): They have different guild tags too
VardaValar1(4:24:13 PM): No comment, Phar : )
ArPharazonV(4:24:20 PM): ...
VardaValar1(4:24:25 PM): from me, I mean
VardaValar1(4:24:45 PM): Passing on what he said,
VardaValar1(4:25:08 PM): Passwording emails have been sent to everyone that I can
VardaValar1(4:25:15 PM): If you didn't get one, email me
VardaValar1(4:25:31 PM): What I have for each member is on the Activity page
ArPharazonV(4:25:39 PM): If you did, mail as well  at least that's what you said in the mail...
VardaValar1(4:25:56 PM): right, need a reply
ArPharazonV(4:26:01 PM): doesn't your mailbox overcrowd very often?
VardaValar1(4:26:02 PM): Thanks, Phar
VardaValar1(4:26:14 PM): I check it several times a day, normally
ArPharazonV(4:26:17 PM): like 100 mails a day?
VardaValar1(4:26:21 PM): Clears spam
GwaihirValar(4:26:22 PM): she's very vigilant *grins*
VardaValar1(4:26:24 PM): yep
GaldorV(4:26:28 PM):
VardaValar1(4:27:13 PM): easily a hundred in a day, aye
ArPharazonV(4:27:30 PM): wow... for me it's a miracle if I get 3....
VardaValar1(4:27:45 PM): Lucky : )
VardaValar1(4:27:54 PM): Now we all have to email him!
VardaValar1(4:28:06 PM): Any other Member news?
GwaihirValar(4:28:07 PM): heh
ArPharazonV(4:28:07 PM):
ArPharazonV(4:28:28 PM): the first sign of the apocalypse... Pharazon get's 20 mails on 1 day
VardaValar1(4:28:32 PM): hehe
GaldorV(4:28:35 PM): Hehe

VardaValar1(4:28:36 PM): Web News:
sauronjag(4:28:37 PM):
VardaValar1(4:28:45 PM): Tolkien Encyclopedia
GaldorV(4:28:45 PM):
VardaValar1(4:29:00 PM): Remember the Encyc belongs to each of you
VardaValar1(4:29:10 PM): It is used world-wide by an awful lot of people
VardaValar1(4:29:24 PM): That's part of the email pile we mentioned : )
sauronjag(4:29:24 PM): I have to leave for dinner, family came up...
VardaValar1(4:29:30 PM): Hi to your family!
GaldorV(4:29:31 PM): I look at the encyc sometimes at work
ArPharazonV(4:29:31 PM): afk
VardaValar1(4:29:32 PM): Namarie
sauronjag(4:29:38 PM): I'll be back in a half hour or so  Namarie
VardaValar1(4:30:01 PM): Might still be here
ArPharazonV(4:30:20 PM): back
ArPharazonV(4:30:21 PM): Namarie
GwaihirValar(4:30:22 PM): any chance you could get the bridge onto Westfall??
VardaValar1(4:30:24 PM): The Encyc is undergoing a lot of new page work, but remains up
GwaihirValar(4:30:26 PM): farewell
Eonwe Valar(4:30:36 PM): not without WC3
GwaihirValar(4:30:45 PM): whoever is holding it up
Eonwe Valar(4:31:21 PM): pardon the interruption,.. thought that's we were on bridge news or such :}
GwaihirValar(4:31:36 PM): nevermind... sorry about the interruption...
VardaValar1(4:31:57 PM): Web news still
VardaValar1(4:32:18 PM): Trying to rig the Encyc so that all parts are together
VardaValar1(4:32:33 PM): Author pages, character pages, titles
VardaValar1(4:32:50 PM): We need pictures to go with stories, poems, etc
VardaValar1(4:33:08 PM): Possibly a collage thing as was suggested in the gaming forum
ArPharazonV(4:33:12 PM): reminds me... I just happened to stumble on an obscure dwarfname in the hobbit... going to check encyc on him now
VardaValar1(4:33:29 PM): If we don't have it, might give us the name
ArPharazonV(4:33:55 PM): great King Bladorthin... he in the Encyc?
VardaValar1(4:34:07 PM): Webwork is keeping me pretty much off gaming lately
VardaValar1(4:34:21 PM): Doubt it, you get to send in an article! : )
Eonwe Valar(4:34:29 PM): Might need to check it out Pharazon :} I'm sure it's hard to remember all those names :}
VardaValar1(4:34:33 PM): Any other web news, o web weavers?
Eonwe Valar(4:34:40 PM): not yet,... :}

VardaValar1(4:34:44 PM): Gaming News:
VardaValar1(4:34:47 PM): Eonwe, go ahead
Eonwe Valar(4:34:50 PM): thanks :}
ArPharazonV(4:34:59 PM): ah, not there... but no surprise, I've got very little information.....
Eonwe Valar(4:35:04 PM): First, WoW:
Eonwe Valar(4:35:39 PM): World of Warcaft beta phase two is beginning
Eonwe Valar(4:35:51 PM): they've sent out many of the e-mails already in march
Eonwe Valar(4:36:30 PM): Or rather, all the phase two e-mails have been sent in March
Eonwe Valar(4:36:58 PM): So, maybe some of us will get in this wave :}
GaldorV(4:37:12 PM): well I have to go...Namarie
ArPharazonV(4:37:16 PM): Namarie
V Idril V(4:37:19 PM): namarie
MaglorV(4:37:20 PM): namarie
GwaihirValar(4:37:21 PM): farewell
VardaValar1(4:37:24 PM): Later
Eonwe Valar(4:37:31 PM): Second, WC3/TFT
Eonwe Valar(4:38:18 PM): Blizzard has set up a new server called Westfall to beta-test patch 1.15 of WC3/TFT
Eonwe Valar(4:39:14 PM): Just log into Lordearon and it will update your realm listing, then log onto Westfall,.. to use the current version of WC3/TFT, all you need do is log onto a normal realm
GwaihirValar(4:39:41 PM): afk for a bit, I think dinner's ready
Eonwe Valar(4:39:59 PM): There's a tourney coming up Tuesday night, where the winner may get a spot in the WoW beta test :}
ArPharazonV(4:40:32 PM): I didn't even have to actually log in into Lordaeron, just the attempt was enough
ArPharazonV(4:40:45 PM): So I did not even have to create an account in Lord
Eonwe Valar(4:41:16 PM): We're trying to get some WC3 guys over on Westfall to set up and test the new clan options, as well as participate in the clan ladder, so if you've got WC3 and you're not there already, feel free to join come on in :}
ArPharazonV(4:41:38 PM): too bad 2 is not enough to create a guild...
Eonwe Valar(4:41:38 PM): yes, Pharazon, didn't need to create an account in Lordearon :}
GaldorV(4:41:41 PM): Namarie
(4:41:43 PM)GaldorV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar(4:42:05 PM): That does it for my news :}
ArPharazonV(4:42:38 PM): one more thing:
VardaValar1(4:42:50 PM): Eonwe, Idril is having trouble with finding the Tourney page, could you help her?
Shaggyjoe(4:42:52 PM): hey
ArPharazonV(4:43:02 PM): the new patch holds the Goblin neutral hero: not an april-fools joke after all!
Shaggyjoe(4:43:05 PM): im joes sister
GwaihirValar(4:43:11 PM): yes, he's great fun
VardaValar1(4:43:27 PM): Hi Joe's sister
ArPharazonV(4:43:28 PM): a bit overpowered? or does it seem worse than it is?
Shaggyjoe(4:43:30 PM): hi
Eonwe Valar(4:43:30 PM): sure,.. I hope it's still where it should be :}
GwaihirValar(4:43:41 PM): he's a little weaker than most heroes
GwaihirValar(4:43:43 PM): but he's fun
Shaggyjoe(4:43:44 PM): call me katie
GwaihirValar(4:43:58 PM): he'll probably be balanced up
GwaihirValar(4:44:04 PM): anyways, afk now
ArPharazonV(4:44:20 PM): bye Gwai, see you later
ThorondorV(4:44:23 PM): same here, getting some food and tea.
ArPharazonV(4:44:46 PM): still hurting my eyes... well, I guess you can't help it...
VardaValar1(4:44:57 PM): trying to get in WC3 on this comp, updating patch
VardaValar1(4:45:03 PM): any other Gaming news?
Shaggyjoe(4:45:11 PM): huh?
ThorondorV(4:45:12 PM): I have tried to change it for the whole time I have been sitting here. Sorry. Afk now.
VardaValar1(4:45:17 PM): Oh, in D2X, banks are being updated on password
VardaValar1(4:45:43 PM): Any other Gaming news?
ArathornValar(4:46:06 PM): I'll be playing some Diablo2 X Tolkien mod again today... if anyone wants to join up... seem my partner in crime Ulfang is away this week
ArathornValar(4:46:36 PM): Just in case Idril never heard of it...
(4:47:32 PM)HuanofValar has left the room.
VardaValar1(4:48:33 PM): Ready for Tolkien?
ArPharazonV(4:48:45 PM): ready ready!
ArPharazonV(4:48:50 PM): *calmes down
VardaValar1(4:48:51 PM): I have a topic if no one else does
VardaValar1(4:48:59 PM): Please let me know if you have one!
Shaggyjoe(4:49:16 PM): alright, my sister needs to check her mail, ill see you all later. Much love
VardaValar1(4:49:23 PM): Namarie
Shaggyjoe(4:49:27 PM): see ayh'round
Eonwe Valar(4:49:28 PM): peace :}
(4:49:37 PM)Shaggyjoe has left the room.
Eonwe Valar(4:49:38 PM): take care :}

VardaValar1(4:50:27 PM): The Fellowship acted as a team, not as a single hero.
VardaValar1(4:50:44 PM): How did each contribute and let's take them one at a time
VardaValar1(4:50:51 PM): As a member,
VardaValar1(4:50:56 PM): as part of the story
VardaValar1(4:51:03 PM): and if you want, in the movie
VardaValar1(4:51:06 PM): Gandalf!
VardaValar1(4:51:19 PM): How did he act as part of the Fellowship?
ArPharazonV(4:51:32 PM): ah yes, Gandalf... too bad he was out for a while, but when he was in, very useful
ArPharazonV(4:51:40 PM): always good advice
ArPharazonV(4:51:58 PM): best support Frodo could have had with his burden, probably
ArPharazonV(4:52:13 PM): not to mention fighting off the Balrog...
FarmerMaggotV(4:52:14 PM): I don't know, Sam helped Frodo a lot too
FarmerMaggotV(4:52:35 PM): Sam even carried the ring (even if it was for a short time)
(4:52:43 PM)V Idril V has left the room.
Eonwe Valar(4:52:43 PM): He acted as the exception to the rule that a wizard can't be a tank :}
(4:52:43 PM)V Idril V has entered the room.
VardaValar1(4:52:44 PM): We're on Gandalf, guys
ArPharazonV(4:52:49 PM): always, always, wisest of the team
FarmerMaggotV(4:53:06 PM): Agreed
VardaValar1(4:53:09 PM): Good point about Sam though
ArPharazonV(4:53:23 PM): indeed... Sam was my second choice
ArPharazonV(4:53:34 PM): but anyway... Gandalf
ArPharazonV(4:54:40 PM): you think, that if Gandalf would still have been around, the battle of Amon Hen would not have been so terrible?
ArPharazonV(4:54:51 PM): no captured Hobbits, no dead Boromir?
Eonwe Valar(4:55:12 PM): Boromir might not have made his move had Gandalf still been around
VardaValar1(4:55:22 PM): Most likely true
FarmerMaggotV(4:55:23 PM): Hm... Hard to say really, probably not... He probably would have stopped the hobbits from leaving alone afterwords though
ArPharazonV(4:55:34 PM): or not
Eonwe Valar(4:55:38 PM): so Gandalf acted as a coutner to Boromir's lust for the Ring as well
ArPharazonV(4:55:39 PM): as I said, he was the wisest
Eonwe Valar(4:55:46 PM): *counter
ArPharazonV(4:56:28 PM): I think he had probably supported Frodo and Sam's departure even more than the rest
FarmerMaggotV(4:56:45 PM): Why do you say that?
ArPharazonV(4:56:56 PM): He had much fate in them, and probably would have known about the impending doom of Rohan and Gondor
ArPharazonV(4:57:34 PM): and knew his presence, and those of Aragorn and co., would have drawn far too much attention
FarmerMaggotV(4:57:49 PM): True...
FarmerMaggotV(4:58:15 PM): Marching right into the heart of the dark lord's kingdom
ArPharazonV(4:58:28 PM): so, he would have left them on their own, and would have traveled west or south to support the lands west of the river
ArPharazonV(4:58:50 PM): together with the other 5/6 (if Boromir would have remained alive)
Eonwe Valar(5:00:00 PM): I don't think Gandalf would've left Frodo and Sam to go on their own
ArPharazonV(5:00:22 PM): well, perhaps with the other 2 hobbits... quite a team, I must say
VardaValar1(5:00:30 PM): Gandalf might have sent on the others. Would he have gone with Frodo?
GwaihirValar(5:00:34 PM): back
Eonwe Valar(5:00:36 PM): I think his wisdom would've told him its too dangerous to do so, and would've travelled with them himself
VardaValar1(5:00:42 PM): A Maia might be too visible to Sauron
Eonwe Valar(5:01:13 PM): Gadnalf could've gone as far as Ithilien as long as he didn't start blasting orcs with his power
FarmerMaggotV(5:01:13 PM): And how do you think Gandalf would have felt about them being led by Smeagol?
GwaihirValar(5:01:18 PM): *flies down and lands back among the group* mm... good salmon...
ArPharazonV(5:01:35 PM): and, as we concluded some time ago, a full Fellowship to Mordor would have been the doom of ME...
VardaValar1(5:01:52 PM): right, but how about Gandalf with Frodo and Sam?
GwaihirValar(5:02:05 PM): if Gandalf had been there, they wouldn't have had the same problems with smeagol
GwaihirValar(5:02:10 PM): because they wouldn't have been delayed
ArPharazonV(5:02:12 PM): but Gandalf always had more faith in Gollum than everyone else... well, before the Emyn Muil, when Frodo took over that part
ArPharazonV(5:02:26 PM): remember his speech to Frodo?
GwaihirValar(5:02:38 PM): and they either would've had to get lost in the marshes... I don't think Gandalf knew the way through... or have dared the Battle Plains
ArPharazonV(5:02:43 PM): he may yet have a part to play, for better or worse... or something like that
FarmerMaggotV(5:03:16 PM): right, bit of foreshadowing there :D
ArPharazonV(5:03:18 PM): some that live deserve to die... can you bring it to them?
GwaihirValar(5:03:22 PM): aye
GwaihirValar(5:03:23 PM): that part
ArPharazonV(5:03:40 PM): chapter 2 I think? Shadows of the past?
ArPharazonV(5:03:54 PM): In Moria in the movie
VardaValar1(5:04:00 PM): Gandalf is not likely to get lost
GwaihirValar(5:04:03 PM): 'many that die deserve life, can you give it to them? Then don't be so eager to deal death'
ArPharazonV(5:04:12 PM): right, that's it
VardaValar1(5:04:14 PM): but we're gamers! oops, pardon
GwaihirValar(5:04:26 PM): he probably would've had to do things he wouldn't have wanted to in order to get through the marshes
GwaihirValar(5:04:49 PM): I don't think either he OR Aragorn had ever entered the Marshes
ArPharazonV(5:05:08 PM): how far south did they go when chasing Gollum?
VardaValar1(5:05:10 PM): Aye, he might have had to put forth some power and be visible
GwaihirValar(5:05:23 PM): Aragorn caught scent again of Gollum on the edge of the marshes
VardaValar1(5:05:24 PM): Gandalf might have used Gollum as a guide too
Eonwe Valar(5:05:42 PM): Gandalf may have made use of Smeagol's knowledge because Smeagol had been through there before, and I'm fairly sure Gandalf did not march up to Mordor at any part of his journeys
GwaihirValar(5:05:43 PM): Dya think Gollum would've followed Gandalf the same as he had Frodo?
VardaValar1(5:06:01 PM): Not willingly
FarmerMaggotV(5:06:09 PM): Most likely not, as he had already seen the wizard when he was interrogated by him
ArPharazonV(5:06:12 PM): nice master.... with the long beard...
GwaihirValar(5:06:12 PM): he didn't lead Frodo willingly either *Chuckles*
ArPharazonV(5:06:26 PM): and besides, Gandalf wasn't the ringbearer
VardaValar1(5:06:38 PM): Much nearer willing for Frodo
ArPharazonV(5:06:39 PM): he just followed the ring-bearer
ArPharazonV(5:06:43 PM): or lead
GwaihirValar(5:06:48 PM): aye
Eonwe Valar(5:06:51 PM): Gollum would not have been talking to himself at night had Gandalf been there :}
ArPharazonV(5:07:10 PM): that's for sure....
GwaihirValar(5:07:17 PM): but he also would've never led them to the Gate, because Gandalf would've told him that was the wrong way
GwaihirValar(5:07:27 PM): and things would've just been wierd
GwaihirValar(5:07:27 PM): lol
VardaValar1(5:07:29 PM): Maybe much more quietly : )
FarmerMaggotV(5:07:31 PM): And he never would have led them to shelob :P
ArPharazonV(5:07:47 PM): what would have happened in the meeting with Faramir?
GwaihirValar(5:07:58 PM): Faramir wouldn't have 'arrested' them in the first place
VardaValar1(5:08:01 PM): Faramir was Gandalf's pupil
ArPharazonV(5:08:01 PM): I seriously doubt Faramir would have captured Gandalf, yes
VardaValar1(5:08:09 PM): Knew each other
GwaihirValar(5:08:10 PM): he would've seen Gandalf and inquired
GwaihirValar(5:08:15 PM): more than that
Eonwe Valar(5:08:15 PM): Well, Gandalf, if he were still there, would've fougth Shelob,. and that wouldn't have been pretty,.. but he would've been known to Sauron then
GwaihirValar(5:08:18 PM): Faramir TRUSTS Gandalf
GwaihirValar(5:08:28 PM): that's the main thing
VardaValar1(5:08:29 PM): Aye, Gwaihir
GwaihirValar(5:08:37 PM): they're known toeach other, but Faramir trusts Gandalf more than almost anyone else
GwaihirValar(5:08:42 PM): if not more than anyone else
FarmerMaggotV(5:08:44 PM): Eonwe: Do you think Gandalf knew of Shelob?
ArPharazonV(5:08:49 PM): If Sam can defeat Shelob.. I don't think Gandalf would have had to use much of his powers
VardaValar1(5:09:10 PM): Gandalf would have found out. But Faramir seemed to know something
GwaihirValar(5:09:13 PM): Sam only defeated Shelob because of the power of Galadriel and Earendil, and of Sting... and a lot of luck
ArPharazonV(5:09:16 PM): I think Faramir would have brought some warning to Gandalf, I think he knew something was wrong with that path...
GwaihirValar(5:09:19 PM): Faramir knew the pass was guarded
GwaihirValar(5:09:26 PM): but not by what
GwaihirValar(5:09:30 PM): Gandalf would've guessed
Eonwe Valar(5:09:35 PM): he may have known something of her, if not exactly her origins, as Gollum was questioned by him, and he may have discerned certain things,.. but either way he would've fought Shelob
GwaihirValar(5:09:40 PM): because 'Cirith Ungol' literally means 'Pass of the Spider' does it not?
ArPharazonV(5:09:47 PM): yes!
VardaValar1(5:09:47 PM): aye, it does
ArPharazonV(5:09:51 PM): Ungoliant... Ungol
GwaihirValar(5:09:57 PM): Gandalf would've figured out very easily what THAT meant
Eonwe Valar(5:10:02 PM): yeah, a pretty glaring clue as to what lies in wait :]
ArPharazonV(5:10:06 PM): not good at Elvish, but I see a connection there
ArPharazonV(5:11:12 PM): and here we go... they make it through the fight with the spider, and then what would've happened?
VardaValar1(5:11:37 PM): We turned into a what-if, which you guys told me not to do. : )
Eonwe Valar(5:11:39 PM): Trouble :}
VardaValar1(5:11:47 PM): Lots of orcs
ArathornValar(5:11:53 PM): Hmm.. didn't they all know about 'Cirith Ungol' and thus should have known what it meant long before the fellowship was put together... wonder why Gandalf didn't mention somethin about that area/passage earlier
GwaihirValar(5:12:12 PM): He didn't expect them to be separated
Eonwe Valar(5:12:20 PM): Maybe he intended to go North and come the long way to Orodruin?
GwaihirValar(5:12:25 PM): he never revealed much of what he expected to do...
GwaihirValar(5:12:31 PM): except the immediate future
VardaValar1(5:12:33 PM): Gandalf didn't get to tell them
ArathornValar(5:12:33 PM): Still, why not gine as much information ahead of time regarding possible bad routes?
ArPharazonV(5:12:36 PM): go around Mordor, entering from the South...
FarmerMaggotV(5:12:44 PM): Maybe didn't want to scare the poor hobbits :P
VardaValar1(5:12:47 PM): there were no good routes : )
GwaihirValar(5:12:55 PM): perhaps he didn't want to colour their decisino
GwaihirValar(5:13:00 PM): because he knew they'd be separated
GwaihirValar(5:13:02 PM): just not when
Eonwe Valar(5:13:07 PM): Elrond's advice: think not too far ahead!
VardaValar1(5:13:21 PM): Be adaptable, aye
ArPharazonV(5:13:23 PM): bloody eagles... not helping unless it's really needed.... nothing personal, Thoro and Gwai
VardaValar1(5:13:32 PM): Eagles are verrry visible
GwaihirValar(5:13:39 PM): I mean, if you thinka bout it, he never really even told them about the Black Gate being impassable
ArPharazonV(5:13:48 PM): did he even tell them of Lorien?
GwaihirValar(5:13:53 PM): he told Aragorn
GwaihirValar(5:13:58 PM): but other than that, no, I don't think so
VardaValar1(5:14:01 PM): Some of the group knew bits the others didn't
ArPharazonV(5:14:10 PM): and the Hobbits knew the least...
GwaihirValar(5:14:16 PM): Nah, I don't think so
VardaValar1(5:14:21 PM): Aragorn and Legolas should have known something about Lothlorien
ThorondorV(5:14:22 PM): back..
GwaihirValar(5:14:25 PM): I think Frodo and Merry knew more than most of the others...
VardaValar1(5:14:26 PM): wb
ArathornValar(5:14:29 PM): well... I still think knowing about a giant spider might have been useful... although theer didn't seem to be any other way in other than the gate that was so heavily guarded it was impossible...
GwaihirValar(5:14:30 PM): Merry having spent time looking at maps
GwaihirValar(5:14:46 PM): and I think Gandalf would've given Frodo some information
ArPharazonV(5:14:55 PM): perhaps the company thought they'd be able to take Minas Morgul?
ThorondorV(5:14:59 PM): Thanks, discussion about Gandalf..?
Eonwe Valar(5:15:04 PM): IT's because of where each spent the precious time they had before the departure: The Hobbits spent it together (and with Bilbo) while Aragorn, Gandalf, and probably Boromir, GImli, and Legolas, spent it in council
VardaValar1(5:15:21 PM): Discussion is what did each member of the Fellowship contribute
GwaihirValar(5:15:34 PM): not exactly, Eonwe... remember, Merry commented that he spent much time examining maps
VardaValar1(5:15:37 PM): Gandalf is the first one we spoke of
GwaihirValar(5:15:47 PM): we haven't really gotten beyond him ytet
GwaihirValar(5:15:48 PM): yet*
VardaValar1(5:15:57 PM): Aye, Merry checked out the maps
ArathornValar(5:16:19 PM): when Smeagol led them to the gate he said afterwards that there was only one otehr possible route... seems he would know best having been all the way in before.. perhaps Gandalf had an inkling earlier that that might be their only..
ArPharazonV(5:16:24 PM): still in the 'what-if', about him surviving the Balrog...
ArathornValar(5:16:28 PM): way in without being spotted
GwaihirValar(5:16:44 PM): if he'd survived the Balrog, Frodo still would've gotten off on his own I think
GwaihirValar(5:16:58 PM): Gandalf would've probably been in the know
ArPharazonV(5:17:00 PM): see? I told you guys!
GwaihirValar(5:17:04 PM): but I think it probably would've happened anyways
Eonwe Valar(5:17:22 PM): Gandalf supplied wisdom and comfort for the entire fellowship: a shoulder to lean on but none for himself
VardaValar1(5:17:40 PM): Aragorn might have been a support for Gandalf?
GwaihirValar(5:17:43 PM): I'd say so
ArathornValar(5:17:54 PM): Too bad Galadriel didn't give Sam a giant can of Raid instead...
GwaihirValar(5:17:57 PM): Aragorn was about the closest thing to a 'friend' Gandalf had I think... except possibly Elrond and Galadriel
VardaValar1(5:17:58 PM): hehe
ArPharazonV(5:18:19 PM): the 3 bearers of the elven rings
VardaValar1(5:18:23 PM): Bilbo
VardaValar1(5:18:34 PM): The hobbits were very precious to him
GwaihirValar(5:18:36 PM): possibly nilno yoo
ArPharazonV(5:18:40 PM): and Saruman, for most of the time...
GwaihirValar(5:18:45 PM): bilbo
GwaihirValar(5:18:46 PM): too
Eonwe Valar(5:19:12 PM): Gandalf had alot of people he had faith and trust in,.. but he did not turn to many for aid or Council
ArPharazonV(5:19:18 PM): nilno... you type the b with your left hand?
VardaValar1(5:19:43 PM): So we have Gandalf contributing wisdom, power when it won't give them away, a direction when he was present, confidence
GwaihirValar(5:19:45 PM): I certainly do
ArPharazonV(5:19:47 PM): hm... seems I do so too... never mind
ArPharazonV(5:19:52 PM): I thought it was right
Eonwe Valar(5:19:53 PM): Nilno is cousin to Biblo :}
GwaihirValar(5:19:55 PM): I do everything except the top right corner of the keyboard
GwaihirValar(5:20:00 PM): with my left hand
VardaValar1(5:20:02 PM): I type B with left hand too
GwaihirValar(5:20:02 PM): because I'm lefthanded
GwaihirValar(5:20:13 PM): I do n with it as well *chuckles*
GwaihirValar(5:20:20 PM): most of the time
GwaihirValar(5:20:23 PM): anyways
VardaValar1(5:20:28 PM): n is right hand mostly : )
GwaihirValar(5:20:30 PM): depends on the word, though, I must say
ArPharazonV(5:20:38 PM): yes, the left-right boundry lies between b and y, I'd say...
GwaihirValar(5:20:46 PM): some words I do n with right hand, but for the most part I use the left hand for n
VardaValar1(5:20:53 PM): Let's move on to Aragorn
VardaValar1(5:21:01 PM): What did he contribute to the Fellowship?
GwaihirValar(5:21:07 PM): He provided Frodo with confidence, Ithink
ArathornValar(5:21:29 PM): Leadership when Gandalf was gone... for a while anyway..
GwaihirValar(5:21:30 PM): Aye, that too
ArPharazonV(5:21:31 PM): He got the hobbits as far as Rivendell, fought off a couple of Nazgul.... great guy
ArathornValar(5:21:47 PM): True... that's before teh fellowship though...
ArPharazonV(5:22:01 PM): fellowship already half-formed, I'd say
GwaihirValar(5:22:02 PM): I think his main contribution, however, was giving Frodo a bit of confidence and courage...
VardaValar1(5:22:03 PM): In a way, the Fellowship was already beginning to form
ArPharazonV(5:22:48 PM): right! that's what PJ thought as well! that's why the Fellowship theme is already half playing during the journey to Rivendell!
ArathornValar(5:22:53 PM): How did he give Frodo confidence? I see the guidance, but...
GwaihirValar(5:23:06 PM): It always seemed to me
GwaihirValar(5:23:21 PM): that Frodo relied a great deal on Aragorn... to hold himself together, I guess
Eonwe Valar(5:23:43 PM): Perhpas Frodo and Araognr saw a bit of themselves in eachother
GwaihirValar(5:23:43 PM): almost seemed like Frodo thought of Aragorn as a big brother, I guess is the best way to put it
Eonwe Valar(5:23:59 PM): ew that's a bad case or misplacing letters,..
GwaihirValar(5:24:05 PM): heh
GwaihirValar(5:24:07 PM): Araognr
VardaValar1(5:24:08 PM): Aragorn seemed to be second in command when Gandalf was present
Eonwe Valar(5:24:09 PM): *Perhaps, Aragorn
GwaihirValar(5:24:10 PM): new Dwarf?
ArPharazonV(5:24:12 PM): sounds Orcish...
VardaValar1(5:24:16 PM): hehe
ArathornValar(5:24:17 PM): I think Frodo might have felt at times he lacked the confidence... more a sense of duty that drove him...
VardaValar1(5:24:33 PM): He would go, even if he did not know the way. Aye
ArPharazonV(5:24:37 PM): duty to the Shire
ArPharazonV(5:24:43 PM): and to all the free peoples
VardaValar1(5:24:43 PM): to all Middle-earth
ArPharazonV(5:25:42 PM): I could see Frodo now.... trying to get to Mordor on his own, trying to find signs 'Mordor, xxx miles South'
GwaihirValar(5:25:49 PM): lol
VardaValar1(5:25:53 PM): You guys can surely all come up with something useful Aragorn did!
GwaihirValar(5:26:01 PM): Well, single actions, yes
GwaihirValar(5:26:08 PM): I'm trying to look for his overall contribution
ArathornValar(5:26:12 PM): At one point Aragorn himself felt he had failed the fellowship after Boromir's death... and then had to make a difficult choice whether to fllow Frodo or the Orcs...
ArPharazonV(5:26:48 PM): and they followed the orcs, choosing Merry and Pippin over Frodo and Sam... was that the wrong choice?
ArathornValar(5:26:48 PM): and felt at that time the fellowship had run it's course... might have had a premonition himself where he could help the most
ArPharazonV(5:27:20 PM): I mean, Merry and Pippin were already a LOT safer then the other 2 Hobbits, when Aragorn found them
FarmerMaggotV(5:27:21 PM): IMHO that was the right choice (based on our earlier conversation about gandalf)
ArathornValar(5:27:27 PM): I think he might have felt that finding Frodo might not actually help him in his quest...
FarmerMaggotV(5:28:12 PM): I think he realized he couldn't help Sam & Frodo much and that Merry and pippin were in danger perhaps?
ArPharazonV(5:28:15 PM): IMO I just found the meaning to a few days ago.. what does the H mean?
ArathornValar(5:28:17 PM): perhaps he felt that too many going into Mordor (and especially being sensed by Sauron) might hinder more than help
VardaValar1(5:28:20 PM): humble
ArPharazonV(5:28:24 PM): thnx
VardaValar1(5:28:36 PM): mp
ArPharazonV(5:28:44 PM): *np
VardaValar1(5:28:52 PM): mp = my pleasure
ArPharazonV(5:28:56 PM): oh, ok
GwaihirValar(5:29:03 PM): it's used more often around here than np
ArPharazonV(5:29:03 PM):
VardaValar1(5:29:05 PM): guild abbrev, not outsider
GwaihirValar(5:29:16 PM): Occasionally I see it outside...
GwaihirValar(5:29:18 PM): but ya, not often
ArPharazonV(5:29:19 PM): gotta remember that
VardaValar1(5:29:20 PM): o cool : )
VardaValar1(5:29:29 PM): we may be spreading it
ArPharazonV(5:29:33 PM): and what does mp3 mean?
VardaValar1(5:29:42 PM): music player
ArathornValar(5:29:45 PM): ahh.. thought the 'military police' were on their way
VardaValar1(5:29:59 PM): Aragorn in the books was useful why?
ArPharazonV(5:30:17 PM): and of course we have 'multi-play(er)/(ing)
VardaValar1(5:30:19 PM): The Fellowship only appeared to break up
FarmerMaggotV(5:30:20 PM): Hm, he took over leadership after gandalf had the run in w/ the balrogs
VardaValar1(5:30:40 PM): The Fellowship actually continued helping each other from a distance, then came together again mostly
ArPharazonV(5:30:43 PM): running with the Balrogs....
ArathornValar(5:30:57 PM): In the books he already had the sword rebuilt when they were on their way (unlike teh movie)... that seemed to help when they met the Riders of Rohan..
ArPharazonV(5:31:30 PM): sure helped in Helm's Deep!
VardaValar1(5:31:45 PM): He already knew a lot of the people and customs
Eonwe Valar(5:31:56 PM): Aragorn had been through his trials,.. Frodo was now going through his,.. perhaps he tried to guide Frodo? And Frodo's growth was very important to the rest of the world
VardaValar1(5:31:58 PM): He came right out and called to the Riders.
VardaValar1(5:32:15 PM): He knew who was who
ArPharazonV(5:32:33 PM): I think Frodo grew less than Merry and Pippin... physically, of course
ArathornValar(5:32:35 PM): But when he showed his sword he seemd to grow in stature and the riders were more apt to believe his claim...
VardaValar1(5:32:46 PM): Aragorn was very handy with that sword in any fight
ArPharazonV(5:33:06 PM): And we all know the result of NOT having his sword in Helm's Deep...
ArPharazonV(5:33:09 PM): poor Haldir
Eonwe Valar(5:33:14 PM): After 50 years oif practice, he better be :}
VardaValar1(5:33:23 PM): Haldir was not killed in the book at Helm's Deep
VardaValar1(5:33:29 PM): Only had one elf there to bug Gimli with
ArathornValar(5:33:32 PM): It had a certain power when he held it too... his power along with his forefathers
ArPharazonV(5:33:35 PM): that's right, because Aragorn had his sword
ArPharazonV(5:34:12 PM): they did stay close to the book though, Haldir-Hama... anyone seeing a pattern?
ThorondorV(5:34:14 PM): I'm getting off, cya...
ArPharazonV(5:34:19 PM): Namarie
VardaValar1(5:34:23 PM): Good night, Eagle : )
Eonwe Valar(5:34:23 PM): I see now pattern there :}
(5:34:24 PM)ThorondorV has left the room.
ArPharazonV(5:34:32 PM): the first two letters are the same...
Eonwe Valar(5:34:32 PM): now=no
VardaValar1(5:34:48 PM): That's reaching : )
ArPharazonV(5:35:06 PM): they just found the 1 character, that they already introduced, who represented him in name, and who could be killed off
ArPharazonV(5:35:12 PM): result: Haldir
VardaValar1(5:35:28 PM): They were showing what the elves were sacrificing in their story
Eonwe Valar(5:35:39 PM): that's about it,.. would be like saying Glorfindel = Legolas because the both have g and 2 l's ,not to mention an o and an e,.. in fact Legolas would've fit better for Glorfindel than Haldir for Hama! :}
ArPharazonV(5:36:03 PM): not in the actual order of the letters....
VardaValar1(5:36:06 PM): Like to go on to Boromir, now?
VardaValar1(5:36:15 PM): How did he help the Fellowship?
ArPharazonV(5:36:19 PM): The enemy from within...
ArPharazonV(5:36:27 PM): He kept them alert
Eonwe Valar(5:36:31 PM): I think we've about hit the bottom for Aragorn at this pooint ,so I vote for going to Boromir :}
VardaValar1(5:36:35 PM): The Ring was the enemy within too
ArPharazonV(5:36:48 PM): and Boromir was his pawn
VardaValar1(5:36:58 PM): Seems as if much more could be said for Aragorn, but onwards anyway : )
ArathornValar(5:37:09 PM): He might have been the catalyst that got Frodo on his way as might have been best for teh quest
VardaValar1(5:37:25 PM): He certainly added interest to the story with internal conflict
VardaValar1(5:37:42 PM): Faramir would have done the same with no conflict but with counsel
Eonwe Valar(5:37:53 PM): But the Ring didn't know the Council of the Counsel and couldn't try to change it
GwaihirValar(5:37:57 PM): I dunno if Faramir would've given council...
GwaihirValar(5:38:03 PM): Especially with Gandalf around
Eonwe Valar(5:38:04 PM): er, other way around
VardaValar1(5:38:07 PM): You can't keep Faramir quiet : )
VardaValar1(5:38:25 PM): Gandalf was not around except in our what-if at that time : )
VardaValar1(5:38:41 PM): Boromir also contributed with swordsmanship
ArathornValar(5:38:44 PM): He might still have been moved to try to convince Frodo to let him use the ring even if Gandalf was there... seems that the closer they got to having to make a choice... the more restless he got
ArPharazonV(5:38:50 PM): no, with Faramir in the Fellowship I think they mean
ArPharazonV(5:38:59 PM): instead of Boromir
VardaValar1(5:39:16 PM): Hi from Fangorn-(Valar)
ArPharazonV(5:39:33 PM): Hi back to Treebeard
ArPharazonV(5:39:37 PM): hum hum
VardaValar1(5:40:13 PM): Boromir seemed to already be falling under the Ring's influence at the Council of Elrond, even in the books
VardaValar1(5:40:21 PM): He wanted to use it
ArPharazonV(5:40:27 PM): in the movie it was even worse
VardaValar1(5:40:39 PM): Brought it out well
VardaValar1(5:40:45 PM): or strongly anyway
ArPharazonV(5:40:52 PM): refresh my memory, been a while since I read the books: Does he indeed say 'it is a gift'?
ArathornValar(5:41:32 PM): yes, even though he was saying 'we' should use it... it seemed he truly wanted to have it to use himself... felt they were being too wishy washy and that he could take charge, as it were
ArPharazonV(5:42:13 PM): truly like the viking he is... in the cartoon
ArathornValar(5:43:08 PM): perhaps he wanted to pawn it to get a pair of pants in that version... but that's speculation :/
ArPharazonV(5:43:17 PM):
ArPharazonV(5:43:44 PM): perhaps he could have bought one for Aragorn as well
Eonwe Valar(5:44:08 PM): Aragorn would've wanted the same, no? :} i don't recall too much detail other than only the Hobbits, the Dwarf, and the Elf out of the Fellowship were wearing pants,..
ArathornValar(5:44:13 PM): now why is it Boromir travelled so far to Rivendell in teh first place.. had he already heard about the ring or had he been summoned
GwaihirValar(5:44:24 PM): The dream
Eonwe Valar(5:44:24 PM): but that's off the subject of Boromir :}
GwaihirValar(5:44:41 PM): Boromir and Faramir both had a dream
ArPharazonV(5:44:42 PM): in the movie they made it quite clear, at least in the extended TT
Eonwe Valar(5:44:48 PM): It was the dream that sent him, whether he actually had it or it was only Faramir
GwaihirValar(5:44:58 PM): well, ya, supposedly he had it to
GwaihirValar(5:44:58 PM): o
GwaihirValar(5:45:11 PM): but it doesn't seem likely thathe would have a prophetic vision or dream
VardaValar1(5:45:20 PM): Faramir dreamed it many times, Boromir may have dreamed it once when Faramir was not allowed to go
VardaValar1(5:45:38 PM): Boromir believed Faramir
ArPharazonV(5:45:46 PM): yes, Boromir had the dream once
ArathornValar(5:45:48 PM): So at the council, they hadn't actually expected someone from Gondor..
ArPharazonV(5:45:49 PM): with the poem
GwaihirValar(5:45:58 PM): but Boromir wouldn't let any 'lesser human' take on such an important quest
ArPharazonV(5:46:07 PM): let's see... do I know the poem?
VardaValar1(5:46:09 PM): Boromir claimed to have dreamed it once, but not sure he really did.
ArPharazonV(5:46:37 PM): Seek the Sword that was broken, in Imladris it dwells
VardaValar1(5:46:37 PM): Seek for the Sword that was broken
GwaihirValar(5:46:40 PM): and Denethor wouldn't let anyone but Boromir go, although he came to regret that
Eonwe Valar(5:46:41 PM): they hadn't expected Elves from Mirkwood or Dwarves from Erebor (a little like our MEO RP :})
VardaValar1(5:46:42 PM): ah you do it
ArathornValar(5:46:56 PM): Did he have prior knowldge that they were going to have a council, or was it just coincidence that he came at that time?
ArPharazonV(5:46:59 PM): There shall be councils taken, stronger than Morgul-spells
ArPharazonV(5:47:14 PM): There shall be shown a token, that doom is near at hand
(5:47:18 PM)bnetValar has left the room.
(5:47:20 PM)bnetValar has entered the room.
GwaihirValar(5:47:20 PM): none of the conference was planned
GwaihirValar(5:47:24 PM): The entire thing was chance
VardaValar1(5:47:30 PM): The Council was "called", Elrond said, but not by him
ArPharazonV(5:47:33 PM): For Isildur's bane shall waken, and the halfling forth shall stand...
ArathornValar(5:47:37 PM): ahh.. so that would be a yes then
VardaValar1(5:47:38 PM): He implied it was the will of the Valar
(5:47:40 PM)bnetValar has left the room.
GwaihirValar(5:47:47 PM): you'd know
Eonwe Valar(5:47:49 PM): Only Frodo and Gandalf were known to be coming, with the possiblility of Aragorn
VardaValar1(5:47:51 PM): hehe
Eonwe Valar(5:47:55 PM): And Sam :}
GwaihirValar(5:47:57 PM): Aye
ArPharazonV(5:47:58 PM): I still know it!
ArPharazonV(5:48:06 PM): after so much time!
VardaValar1(5:48:19 PM): congrats
VardaValar1(5:48:26 PM): Now you get to set it to music!
ArPharazonV(5:48:35 PM): a variation: and the fourth halfling shall stand....
GwaihirValar(5:48:45 PM): heh
VardaValar1(5:48:45 PM): Boromir was not expected, right
GwaihirValar(5:48:57 PM): Neither were Legolas nor Gloin and Gimli
VardaValar1(5:48:59 PM): right
Eonwe Valar(5:49:03 PM): Hmm thought in mind that leads to speculation, but wouldn't want to change the chat :}
ArPharazonV(5:49:06 PM): Bilbo was already there
ArPharazonV(5:49:12 PM): was Galdor expected?
VardaValar1(5:49:15 PM): You can mention it anyway
VardaValar1(5:49:30 PM): The Fellowship members were called
VardaValar1(5:49:43 PM): Lot of guys were in Rivendell naturally, lived there
ArPharazonV(5:50:15 PM): it seems in the movie, they are actually invited to come, I believe
VardaValar1(5:50:16 PM): Boromir also gave his strength to help the halflings in the snow, as did Aragorn
(5:50:19 PM)Chugin Chub has entered the room.
ArPharazonV(5:50:22 PM): Aiya
Chugin Chub(5:50:27 PM): hello
Eonwe Valar(5:50:29 PM): Well, was going to suggest, if all those at the Council were called, then they answered the call. Were there any that were called and did not answer?
VardaValar1(5:50:34 PM): Aiya Thror : )
ArPharazonV(5:50:39 PM): hehe
ArPharazonV(5:50:42 PM): a few orcs?
VardaValar1(5:50:47 PM): We don't know since they didn't make it : )
VardaValar1(5:51:01 PM): Most likely the Valar would see to it that whomever was called, came
ArPharazonV(5:51:14 PM): perhaps a few Gnomes got killed when travelling to Rivendell... Gnomes in the Warcraft sense, that is
ArPharazonV(5:51:34 PM): perhaps Treebeard refused to come as well
V Idril V(5:51:36 PM): gtg eat.. namarie all
Eonwe Valar(5:51:36 PM): There were no gnomes in the WC sense in Tolkien's world
(5:51:40 PM)V Idril V has left the room.
ArPharazonV(5:51:40 PM): Namarie
ArPharazonV(5:51:46 PM): ah, too late
ArathornValar(5:51:47 PM): Namarie
VardaValar1(5:52:08 PM): Treebeard was already in the right place
GwaihirValar(5:52:14 PM): Yes, the only gnomes in the entire world
ArPharazonV(5:52:18 PM): who knows, Eonwe, who knows....
GwaihirValar(5:52:20 PM): they died on the way to the council
GwaihirValar(5:52:21 PM): lol
VardaValar1(5:52:25 PM): So, on to the next guy : )
GwaihirValar(5:52:28 PM): That's why there weren't any
ArPharazonV(5:52:31 PM): Gimli!
VardaValar1(5:52:34 PM): Frodo. Did he do anything useful? : )
FarmerMaggotV(5:52:37 PM): nah
ArPharazonV(5:52:37 PM): oh, all right
FarmerMaggotV(5:52:39 PM): :P
GwaihirValar(5:52:44 PM): nope, he was completely redundant
GwaihirValar(5:52:48 PM): all he did was lose a finger!
ArathornValar(5:52:50 PM): So, Boromir's physical strength was definitely useful in the battles they faught, and other ways
GwaihirValar(5:52:52 PM):
VardaValar1(5:52:52 PM): I have a list already, sorry if I stepped on your toes or finger
ArPharazonV(5:52:58 PM): completely redundant until the end of the fellowship
ArPharazonV(5:53:09 PM): so, for the fellowship, he did absolutely nothing
VardaValar1(5:53:13 PM): Frodo was needed to carry the Ring without taking over the world : )
VardaValar1(5:53:27 PM): No one else could haul it, so they were all just there to help him
ArPharazonV(5:53:41 PM): so, he was just the packmule of the gang
ArPharazonV(5:53:43 PM): in a way
VardaValar1(5:53:44 PM): hehe
(5:53:46 PM)GaldorV has entered the room.
FarmerMaggotV(5:53:48 PM): well, Borimir would have, but can't trust him not to take over the world :P
VardaValar1(5:53:50 PM): Aiya Galdor
ArPharazonV(5:53:50 PM): Aiya
GaldorV(5:53:53 PM): Aiya
VardaValar1(5:53:55 PM): There is that
GaldorV(5:54:05 PM): *Boromir
VardaValar1(5:54:21 PM): So Galdor, what did Frodo contribute to the Fellowship?
ArPharazonV(5:54:33 PM): wouldn't Sam have proven to be a better Ring-bearer?
VardaValar1(5:54:46 PM): Why Sam?
ArPharazonV(5:54:56 PM): seemed to posess more loyalty then Frodo
GaldorV(5:54:57 PM): Determination to fulfill his promise to destroy the ring for starters...
GwaihirValar(5:54:58 PM): Sam didn't have the same strength Frodo did...
GwaihirValar(5:55:05 PM): I don't think
ArPharazonV(5:55:15 PM): right, that's why Frodo gave up on the last moment...
GwaihirValar(5:55:40 PM): I don't think Sam could've withstood it that long though
FarmerMaggotV(5:55:46 PM): I don't know, Sam was able to willingly give up the ring
GwaihirValar(5:55:51 PM): Only to Frodo
VardaValar1(5:55:56 PM): Frodo was the best hobbit in the Shire according to Gandalf
ArPharazonV(5:55:57 PM): so, to be clear, Frodo carried the ring, hardly did anything useful in battle, and failed to give up the ring
VardaValar1(5:56:03 PM): Sam held it a very short time
ArathornValar(5:56:07 PM): He bore the brunt of knowing he would have to make the final decision of what to do when they reached the crossraods between Mordor and Gondor to start with...
GwaihirValar(5:56:09 PM): Sam did everything he did for Frodo
VardaValar1(5:56:13 PM): Frodo helped fight in Moria
ArPharazonV(5:56:24 PM): I said hardly
VardaValar1(5:56:27 PM): Frodo was very much into the big picture
FarmerMaggotV(5:56:29 PM): Still, the ring corrupts... Corrupted erm Isulder (sp?) fast...
GwaihirValar(5:56:37 PM): it would've corrupted Sam, given time
ArPharazonV(5:56:38 PM): silly humans...
VardaValar1(5:56:41 PM): Frodo was the least corruptible
ArPharazonV(5:56:43 PM): ok, that was out of character...
GwaihirValar(5:56:48 PM): that's my job to say
VardaValar1(5:56:55 PM): and it came to Frodo by inheritence
GwaihirValar(5:56:56 PM): Silly land-goers
ArPharazonV(5:57:03 PM): silly birds
VardaValar1(5:57:06 PM): Phar could be a water goer : )
ArPharazonV(5:57:13 PM): to big to stealthily enter Mordor
GwaihirValar(5:57:18 PM): he's still landbound, compared to me
ArPharazonV(5:57:30 PM): I'm not a fish
VardaValar1(5:57:31 PM): As a hobbit, Frodo was well-suited for a stealth trip
VardaValar1(5:57:48 PM): Gollum will be so disappointed to hear that, Phar
ArPharazonV(5:57:54 PM): perhaps more like a dolphin
VardaValar1(5:58:04 PM): Action toy - Stealth-Frodo
FarmerMaggotV(5:58:15 PM): heh
VardaValar1(5:58:20 PM): So, how about Sam? How did he contribute?
GwaihirValar(5:58:34 PM): he kept Frodo sane
FarmerMaggotV(5:58:35 PM): Sam contributed a lot, watching out for Frodo
VardaValar1(5:58:39 PM): He took up spots in nearly every other person's discussion already : )
GwaihirValar(5:58:42 PM): or well, somewhat sane
ArPharazonV(5:58:49 PM): freed Frodo, both from the Orcs and from Shelob
VardaValar1(5:58:49 PM): hehe - somewhat, aye
GwaihirValar(5:58:51 PM): he personified loyalty and friendship
GwaihirValar(5:58:57 PM): heh
MaglorV(5:59:03 PM): Well, time for me to go, namarie all.
GwaihirValar(5:59:08 PM): Namarie
VardaValar1(5:59:10 PM): Namarie, Maglor!
ArPharazonV(5:59:10 PM): ooh, almost typed Schlob... the name in 'bored of the rings'
Eonwe Valar(5:59:13 PM): Frodo had learned pity,.. Sam didn't have that for anyone who wasn't a good -guy
ArPharazonV(5:59:17 PM): Namarie
VardaValar1(5:59:22 PM): Aye, Eonwe
(5:59:24 PM)MaglorV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar(5:59:39 PM): Pardon the lateness,.. trying to get back on Azeroth to help Maggot
GwaihirValar(5:59:40 PM): also Sam didn't have the 'big picture' down-pat...
GwaihirValar(5:59:46 PM): everything he did was for Frodo
GwaihirValar(5:59:54 PM): while Frodo did things for the free peoples of the world
VardaValar1(5:59:55 PM): Sam caused Slinker to turn to Stinker at the pivotal moment, thus saving Frodo in the very end
ArPharazonV(6:00:05 PM): that's right
ArPharazonV(6:00:17 PM): even Sam may have a part to play....
GwaihirValar(6:00:23 PM): lol
Eonwe Valar(6:00:26 PM): Sam would've carrier it, but wouldn't have trusted Gollum, wouldn't have let him live, and wouldn't have known to use caution when dealing with Faramir
VardaValar1(6:00:33 PM): According to JRRT, Frodo, with possession satisfied, would have stepped off Mt Doom into the fire
VardaValar1(6:00:57 PM): Sam's slip with Faramir seemed to help
ArPharazonV(6:01:01 PM): and wouldn't have gotten out of the Emyn Muil until the entire ME was gone....
Eonwe Valar(6:01:07 PM): I mean also in the initial meeting
Eonwe Valar(6:01:15 PM): he tried to read Faramir the right act :}
VardaValar1(6:01:29 PM): the riot act, aye he did1
ArPharazonV(6:01:54 PM): silly hobbitses
VardaValar1(6:02:24 PM): On to Merry!
VardaValar1(6:02:33 PM): What did he do for the Fellowship?
ArPharazonV(6:02:49 PM): well... he helped kill a Ringwraith...
ArPharazonV(6:03:12 PM): although Eowyn (almost typed Eonwe) wasn't in the Fellowship
GwaihirValar(6:03:24 PM): Eonwe wasn't in the fellowship either
ArPharazonV(6:03:32 PM): wow!
ArPharazonV(6:03:40 PM): I actually expected that remark!
VardaValar1(6:03:50 PM): She could not have killed the Witch-king without Merry
VardaValar1(6:03:52 PM): hehe
VardaValar1(6:05:27 PM): Merry and his maps, too
Eonwe Valar(6:05:40 PM): Merry knew his way through buckland :}
VardaValar1(6:05:51 PM): Having two pairs of hobbits to confuse the enemy
VardaValar1(6:06:01 PM): Merry contributed the ponies
Eonwe Valar(6:06:04 PM): got Frodo to Tom,. almost
GwaihirValar(6:06:15 PM): indirectly got Frodo to Tom
Eonwe Valar(6:06:27 PM): got eaten by Old Man Willow :}
GwaihirValar(6:06:29 PM): Merry also gave Pippin inspiration to be a fool... to outdo him
ArPharazonV(6:06:32 PM): and when they met Aragorn he turned completely.... what's the word?
ArPharazonV(6:06:35 PM): redundant?
GwaihirValar(6:06:52 PM): and if Pippin hadn't been a fool... a lot of key events would never have happened
Eonwe Valar(6:06:52 PM): redundant? howso?
VardaValar1(6:06:53 PM): Merry had good sense
ArPharazonV(6:07:13 PM): not contributing as much to the Geography as he did before...
VardaValar1(6:07:25 PM): so Merry had to keep young Pippin in one piece to do his things : )
GwaihirValar(6:07:43 PM): Merry also made Pippin be more of a fool in an attempt to outdo Merry
ArPharazonV(6:07:45 PM): ah so he played Pippin's babysitter too
GwaihirValar(6:07:51 PM): because they were competing the whole time
GwaihirValar(6:07:52 PM): lol
ArPharazonV(6:08:10 PM): Pippin and Merry were just there for the humor
GwaihirValar(6:08:19 PM): not just... they had their moments
ArPharazonV(6:08:36 PM): like having the entire forest of Fangorn turn on Isengard
ArPharazonV(6:08:42 PM): that was great
Eonwe Valar(6:08:52 PM): Merry's knowledge of the world ended at about the wall of Bree
ArPharazonV(6:09:07 PM): and he led Aragorn and Gimli and Legolas into Rohan, in a way..
VardaValar1(6:09:08 PM): Merry looked over the maps at Elrond's
Eonwe Valar(6:09:16 PM): so if he didn't contribute in where they were going it's because he didn't know where they were going
ArPharazonV(6:09:19 PM): thereby saving Rohan
ArPharazonV(6:10:04 PM): Ok, I have to stop contributing my own thoughts further when the entire meeting is somewhere else than me...
GaldorV(6:10:16 PM): I got called away for dinner, so I'll be back later...Namarie again!
ArPharazonV(6:10:21 PM): Namarie
VardaValar1(6:10:24 PM): Namarie
(6:10:49 PM)GaldorV has left the room.
VardaValar1(6:10:51 PM): Was looking for Boromirs comment about keeping the Ring as a weapon
VardaValar1(6:10:54 PM): found it
VardaValar1(6:11:10 PM): Not like the movie exactly, but movie boiled it down
VardaValar1(6:11:19 PM): did not call it a gift
ArPharazonV(6:11:29 PM): ah, that was my question
ArPharazonV(6:11:34 PM): thnx Varda
VardaValar1(6:11:54 PM): Shortened from two paragraphs
VardaValar1(6:12:45 PM): So, how did Pippin contribute?
VardaValar1(6:12:58 PM): We nearly get all this in other people's discussions : )
Eonwe Valar(6:13:03 PM): hmm pardon to interrupt, but thought I'd warn everyone about a little WC3 thing: it appears that once you update to the beta patch, reverting to 1.14b is easy,.. however, re-reverting to the beta patch requires you to download it
ArPharazonV(6:13:06 PM): the clown of the gang
Eonwe Valar(6:13:07 PM): once again
GwaihirValar(6:13:20 PM): Aye, it's annoying that way
VardaValar1(6:13:25 PM): um
ArPharazonV(6:13:30 PM): really? I thought it changed normally when you reverted back to the realm?
VardaValar1(6:13:50 PM): There is also a patch you can get to fix the log on crash, which I may have to use
VardaValar1(6:14:01 PM): On News, thanks to Ar-Pharazon
ArPharazonV(6:14:07 PM): was that a patch?
VardaValar1(6:14:15 PM): or whatever you call it : )
VardaValar1(6:14:30 PM): Back to Pippin?
Eonwe Valar(6:14:38 PM): yes :}
ArPharazonV(6:14:49 PM): just a change in the short-cut settings... no patch
ArPharazonV(6:14:53 PM): ok back to P
GwaihirValar(6:14:55 PM): Pippin contributed good humour to it... kept everyone from getting too serious
ArPharazonV(6:15:10 PM): dropped a stone in a well
VardaValar1(6:15:15 PM): Pippin was the youngest, others felt protective of him
ArPharazonV(6:15:29 PM): looked in the palantir
VardaValar1(6:15:40 PM): Right, he threw Sauron completely off the trail
GwaihirValar(6:15:52 PM): Pippin gave Gandalf someone to call a fool
ArPharazonV(6:16:00 PM): Fool of a Took!
VardaValar1(6:16:07 PM): He saved the Steward who would prevent Civil War when Aragorn came
Eonwe Valar(6:16:13 PM): Pippin is the one who drew the Nazgul to Isengard by looking into the Palantir,.. also saved Gandalf from revealing himself to Sauron
GwaihirValar(6:16:18 PM): Gandalf would've never lasted to the Bridge of Khazad-Dum without one of those!
ArPharazonV(6:17:09 PM): fool of a Brandybuck....
GwaihirValar(6:17:13 PM): not the same ring
ArPharazonV(6:17:16 PM): he would have found someone
ArPharazonV(6:17:40 PM): fool of a Baggins!
Eonwe Valar(6:17:48 PM): Sam was too loyal to be called a fool, and you can't go around calling your Ringbearer a fool, so Pippin had to be it :}
VardaValar1(6:17:55 PM): Poor Pippin
ArPharazonV(6:18:03 PM): Fool of a Dwarf!
GwaihirValar(6:18:10 PM): that works
Chugin Chub(6:18:13 PM): hay now
ArPharazonV(6:18:18 PM): technically: Fool of a Gloin's son?
ArPharazonV(6:18:27 PM): did Gimli not have a last name?
VardaValar1(6:18:33 PM): On to Gimli
Eonwe Valar(6:18:50 PM): Nowe that's a seguey (sp?) :}
VardaValar1(6:18:54 PM): hehe
ArPharazonV(6:19:06 PM): not the beard! not the beard! ok, that was movie, but still had to mention it...
VardaValar1(6:19:08 PM): Gimli, Gloin's son is the way they did surnames in some places
ArPharazonV(6:19:23 PM): Aragorn, son of Arathorn
VardaValar1(6:19:26 PM): We can mention the movie, as long as we're clear on what we're talking about! : )
VardaValar1(6:19:31 PM): Right
Eonwe Valar(6:19:33 PM): So Gimli Gloinul?
VardaValar1(6:19:42 PM): Wouldn't that be a bit elvish?
ArPharazonV(6:19:58 PM): 'and Legolas of the woodland realm' or something....
VardaValar1(6:20:11 PM): Legolas Thranduilion
Eonwe Valar(6:20:12 PM): I thought -ul was a Dwarish suffix for "son of"
ArPharazonV(6:20:13 PM): couldn't they just have called him son of Thranduil?
VardaValar1(6:20:16 PM): o ok : )
VardaValar1(6:20:25 PM): that did mean son of Thranduil
Eonwe Valar(6:20:27 PM): *Dwarvish
ArPharazonV(6:20:36 PM): a point which bothered me in the movie, that was
VardaValar1(6:20:47 PM): Lost track, which point?
ArPharazonV(6:20:47 PM): introduction to Eomer and the riders
ArPharazonV(6:20:56 PM): 'Aragorn, son of Arathorn'
ArPharazonV(6:21:02 PM): 'Gimli, son of Gloin'
VardaValar1(6:21:32 PM): They didn't want to tell the riders to take Legolas hostage, good ransom money
ArPharazonV(6:21:34 PM): 'Legolas, of the woodland realm' or something like that... why couldn't they have called him son of Thranduil?
GwaihirValar(6:21:50 PM): is he ever referred to as being the son of Thranduil in LotR?
VardaValar1(6:21:50 PM): The intros were like that in the book
ArPharazonV(6:21:51 PM): that's a good point
VardaValar1(6:22:01 PM): He is, but not around most people
ArPharazonV(6:22:04 PM): really? in the book?
VardaValar1(6:22:09 PM): Yes
ArPharazonV(6:22:12 PM): tsk tsk
VardaValar1(6:22:35 PM): They generally keep quiet about his being a prince when on the road
ArPharazonV(6:22:46 PM): but Aragorn, they immediately name
ArPharazonV(6:22:52 PM): son of Arathorn
Eonwe Valar(6:22:53 PM): Legolas doesn't need everyone bowing and scraping just because he's Elvish Royalty :}
(6:23:03 PM)V Idril V has entered the room.
VardaValar1(6:23:05 PM): would get in the way
ArPharazonV(6:23:06 PM): Aiyata
VardaValar1(6:23:07 PM): Aiya
V Idril V(6:23:13 PM): aiya again
VardaValar1(6:23:14 PM): We seem to have moved to Legolas
FarmerMaggotV(6:23:15 PM): is Legolas royalty?
VardaValar1(6:23:16 PM): Aiya
VardaValar1(6:23:18 PM): Yes
ArPharazonV(6:23:23 PM): prince of Mirkwood
VardaValar1(6:23:26 PM): Legolas is the son of King Thranduil
Lady Fallun(6:23:27 PM): I'm off not. Namarie
Eonwe Valar(6:23:29 PM): And the announcment of an Elven prince, be he Noldor or Avari, would not exactly be "keeping a low profile" :}
VardaValar1(6:23:32 PM): Namarie
ArPharazonV(6:23:33 PM): Namarie
FarmerMaggotV(6:23:37 PM): Ah, is that why he was at the council?
(6:23:48 PM)Lady Fallun has left the room.
VardaValar1(6:23:51 PM): He was at the Council to report the loss of Gollum
GwaihirValar(6:23:54 PM): all of the Fellowship, save the Hobbits, were Royalty or near-to
ArPharazonV(6:23:55 PM): probably was... was Gimli of royalty, btw?
GwaihirValar(6:24:07 PM): Gloin was Nobility, or as close as the Dwarves had, I'd say
Eonwe Valar(6:24:10 PM): Sam was the only non-nobility in the Fellowship
VardaValar1(6:24:13 PM): Gimli was the son of the famous Gloin and of the line of Durin
ArPharazonV(6:24:17 PM): ah, yes, Gloin had royal blood
Eonwe Valar(6:24:19 PM): Gimli was a descendant of Durin
VardaValar1(6:24:30 PM): Sam may have been said to be the most noble, by spirit : )
Eonwe Valar(6:24:30 PM): just not part of the direct royal line
FarmerMaggotV(6:24:42 PM): Eonwe: you say just sam so were Merry and Pippen were royalty?
Eonwe Valar(6:24:53 PM): Pippin was the Son of the Took
FarmerMaggotV(6:24:59 PM): of the took?
GwaihirValar(6:24:59 PM): Merry was the child or grandchild of the Head of the Brandy Hall
VardaValar1(6:25:00 PM): Merry and Pippin were of high birth for hobbits
VardaValar1(6:25:03 PM): The Took
FarmerMaggotV(6:25:05 PM): ah :D
ArPharazonV(6:25:06 PM): the big one
GwaihirValar(6:25:09 PM): equivalent of a Prince among Hobbits
VardaValar1(6:25:15 PM): Thain
Eonwe Valar(6:25:19 PM): Merry was the heir to the Master of Buckland
ArPharazonV(6:25:26 PM): that was the word I was looking for!
ArPharazonV(6:25:30 PM): the Thain
VardaValar1(6:25:32 PM): The Bucklanders were a huge group
ArPharazonV(6:25:44 PM): so were the Tooks
VardaValar1(6:25:48 PM): The alliance of Merry and Pippin was a major power base
VardaValar1(6:25:49 PM): aye
ArPharazonV(6:26:01 PM): half the Shire under their control... South and West
GwaihirValar(6:26:04 PM): Frodo, however, I don't know about the nobility of....
VardaValar1(6:26:05 PM): The Bagginses were extremely rich aristocrats
ArPharazonV(6:26:06 PM): *East
Eonwe Valar(6:26:17 PM): Frodo of course was BIlbo's heir, which carries its own renown, but on top of that Bilbo was an aristocrat, coming from a long line of well-to-do hobbits
GwaihirValar(6:26:22 PM): True
ArPharazonV(6:26:23 PM): Frodo was a Took, in blood, partially
Eonwe Valar(6:26:31 PM): so was Bilbo :}
VardaValar1(6:26:37 PM): "More than half a Brandybuck"
ArPharazonV(6:26:52 PM): Belladonna Took... mother of Bilbo or Frodo?
VardaValar1(6:27:03 PM): Bilbo's Tookishness is mentioned when he gets fierce
Eonwe Valar(6:27:06 PM): hmm, seems Sam was the only one not related to Frodo, and he's the one who gets Bag End :} He was grafted into Frodo's family tree :}
VardaValar1(6:27:09 PM): Primula is Frodo's mother
VardaValar1(6:27:14 PM): hehe
GwaihirValar(6:27:21 PM): Frodo was the merger of most lineages of Hobbits lol
VardaValar1(6:27:28 PM): Like Aragorn
ArPharazonV(6:27:32 PM): ah yes, Belladonna the mother of Bilbo
VardaValar1(6:27:36 PM): and Legolas
Eonwe Valar(6:27:50 PM): ooh,.. and Aragorn was the merger of most of the lines of Elvish and Edain kings,.. oooh now that's a connection :}
ArPharazonV(6:28:16 PM): yes, most... together with Arwen, all
VardaValar1(6:28:26 PM): So each Fellowship member represented much more than he might seem on the surface
GwaihirValar(6:28:47 PM): nope, still not all...
ArPharazonV(6:28:50 PM): the children of Aragorn and Arwen were actually merged from all of the known Houses, I think...
Eonwe Valar(6:28:53 PM): Well, no because the house of Fëanor does not have a share in Aragorn's bloodline
GwaihirValar(6:28:55 PM): Feanor's line was left out
ArPharazonV(6:28:57 PM): except the Swarthy men
VardaValar1(6:29:06 PM): Feanor was cut off
ArPharazonV(6:29:11 PM): well, yes, but I see Feanor as a descendant of Finwe
ArPharazonV(6:29:16 PM): so, from Finwe's line
GwaihirValar(6:29:28 PM): that's oversimplifying it
Eonwe Valar(6:29:32 PM): Well, the two brothers of Fëanor are represented
GwaihirValar(6:29:50 PM): Fingolfin and Finarfin
ArPharazonV(6:29:50 PM): I never thought of Feanor as actually being one of the great Kings
GwaihirValar(6:30:05 PM): he was the Greatest of the Elves
GwaihirValar(6:30:07 PM): to ever be...
GwaihirValar(6:30:11 PM): in skill and power, that is
Eonwe Valar(6:30:14 PM): The Line of Numenor is a union of the Sindarin, most Noldorin, and the Edain houses of Royalty
ArPharazonV(6:30:17 PM): no! he wasn't!
VardaValar1(6:30:17 PM): Depends on definition of Great
GwaihirValar(6:30:27 PM): He was the Greatest, in skill and power
ArPharazonV(6:30:28 PM): officially Luthien was the greatest of all Elves!
ArPharazonV(6:30:37 PM): second feanor
VardaValar1(6:30:40 PM): Luthien wasn't even pure Elf : )
ArPharazonV(6:30:43 PM): third Galadriel
GwaihirValar(6:30:48 PM): Luthien was no mere Elf
Eonwe Valar(6:30:53 PM): Eldarion, the son of Aragorn and Arwen, unite the final houses (for more information, read my Paper Choice of the Half-Elven found in the valar GUild Encyclopedia :})
VardaValar1(6:30:56 PM): I would throw Finrod in there at the top too
ArPharazonV(6:31:03 PM): and Fingolfin
VardaValar1(6:31:05 PM): right on, Eonwe : )
GwaihirValar(6:31:10 PM): Gil-Galad as well
GwaihirValar(6:31:14 PM): he was pretty impressive
ArPharazonV(6:31:24 PM): sure, and so many more....
ArPharazonV(6:31:31 PM): until the last one
Eonwe Valar(6:31:42 PM): The Sons of Finwë were the greeatest of all Elves
ArPharazonV(6:31:42 PM): but I have read that top 3 somewhere....
GwaihirValar(6:31:45 PM): aye
VardaValar1(6:31:59 PM): Once again, depends on what you think Great is
ArPharazonV(6:32:00 PM): I really thought it was Tolkien
GwaihirValar(6:32:08 PM): and Feanor was the most skillful of the Elves
Eonwe Valar(6:32:15 PM): Had Fëanor and FIngolfin taken on that group of Balrogs, I'd pity the Balrogs :}
VardaValar1(6:32:15 PM): Greatest craftsman
VardaValar1(6:32:22 PM): hehe
GwaihirValar(6:32:22 PM): he was skillful in almost every way....
VardaValar1(6:32:28 PM): persuasive
Eonwe Valar(6:32:41 PM): Had Finarfin been there as well, I'd almost fear for Morgoth's life :}
ArPharazonV(6:32:44 PM): by mouth, hand and thought
GwaihirValar(6:32:44 PM): he was a craftsman, a swordsman, a persuasive speaker, a great leader
VardaValar1(6:33:03 PM): guess poor Gimli isn't going to get much of a talk
ArPharazonV(6:33:12 PM): and bye bye Legolas at all
VardaValar1(6:33:12 PM): we switched to ancient elves : )
VardaValar1(6:33:19 PM): Legolas who?
Eonwe Valar(6:33:23 PM): Sorry, saw that link between Frodo and Aragorn and had to say something :}
ArPharazonV(6:33:26 PM): son of Thranduil
VardaValar1(6:33:30 PM): np - j/k around
VardaValar1(6:33:36 PM): good link
ArPharazonV(6:33:50 PM): but I'm leaving.... too bad...
VardaValar1(6:33:52 PM): Gimli's contribution?
VardaValar1(6:33:56 PM): aww
VardaValar1(6:33:58 PM): Namarie
VardaValar1(6:34:03 PM): Axe man
GwaihirValar(6:34:05 PM): I really don't know...
ArPharazonV(6:34:07 PM): I will read the entire transcript though... at least from this point
GwaihirValar(6:34:08 PM): he was a fighter...
VardaValar1(6:34:23 PM): Helped bring together Dwarves and Humans and Elves
ArPharazonV(6:34:25 PM): just one more contribution....
ArPharazonV(6:34:37 PM): NOT THE BEARD! NOT THE BEARD! Namarie, and good night
Eonwe Valar(6:34:42 PM): Gimli provided sturdiness, guidance, presumably some understanding of Moria/Dwarvish architecture that helped Gandalf
(6:34:53 PM)ArPharazonV has left the room.
VardaValar1(6:35:49 PM): He was willing to go to Moria, to mention it as a path, when it might have been left out of the discussion
FarmerMaggotV(6:36:18 PM): Well, Moria wasn't a great idea :P
VardaValar1(6:36:29 PM): He had his special comments to make, observations
VardaValar1(6:36:31 PM): hehe
Eonwe Valar(6:36:38 PM): Moria was the best idea :}
VardaValar1(6:36:40 PM): Moria is what they finally had to take
FarmerMaggotV(6:36:49 PM): yeah, compared to the alternatives
FarmerMaggotV(6:36:54 PM): but it still wasn't great :P
VardaValar1(6:37:04 PM): No safe path
Eonwe Valar(6:37:23 PM): measure the odds of 8 making it out as opposed to all perishing in snow or the Ringbearer being captured taking the Gap of Rohan, and it looks much better
VardaValar1(6:37:31 PM): And Gimli later became Lord of the Glittering Caves, contributed to the repair and improvement of Gondor
VardaValar1(6:37:37 PM): aye
VardaValar1(6:38:14 PM): What did Legolas contribute?
FarmerMaggotV(6:38:22 PM): Took out a lot of orcs :D
Eonwe Valar(6:38:23 PM): Gandalf the Grey could've done only so much agains t Saruman the White, and it's not like it would come down to a duel between the two ala FotR movie
VardaValar1(6:38:28 PM): aye : )
VardaValar1(6:38:52 PM): That duel. heh - could have left that out
FarmerMaggotV(6:38:59 PM): and included me :P
VardaValar1(6:39:00 PM): Legolas shot down the fell beast
VardaValar1(6:39:05 PM): aye : )
VardaValar1(6:39:29 PM): Legolas acted like a second for Aragorn after the loss of Gandalf
Eonwe Valar(6:39:43 PM): He helped Gimli go through the Paths of the Dead,.. couldn't let that Elf go underground when a Dwarf wouldn't :}
VardaValar1(6:39:48 PM): right : )
VardaValar1(6:39:55 PM): Dwarvish pride : )
Eonwe Valar(6:40:16 PM): Gimli learned a bit of humilty there I think :}
VardaValar1(6:40:20 PM): He kept Gimli able to keep up, by letting him ride with him
VardaValar1(6:40:33 PM): good for him, made him think something good of an elf
Eonwe Valar(6:40:50 PM): an elf besides Galadriel :}
VardaValar1(6:40:52 PM): hehe
VardaValar1(6:40:55 PM): aye
sauronjag(6:41:15 PM): okay
VardaValar1(6:41:17 PM): Fangorn liked Legolas
sauronjag(6:41:18 PM): I'm back!
VardaValar1(6:41:22 PM): welcome back
VardaValar1(6:41:38 PM): we are now in the part where we're saying what did the elf do for the Fellowship
Eonwe Valar(6:41:42 PM): An Ent likes an Elf,.. such surprise :}
VardaValar1(6:41:45 PM): hehe
sauronjag(6:42:11 PM): which elf?  legolas?
VardaValar1(6:42:14 PM): Interesting that Gandalf told Legolas not to go to the Ents with the Huorns at Helm's Deep, saying it was not his time
Eonwe Valar(6:42:17 PM): Legolas surfed down the stairs on a shield! :}
VardaValar1(6:42:17 PM): Aye, Legolas
VardaValar1(6:42:19 PM): lol
VardaValar1(6:42:35 PM): Good stunt that : )
Eonwe Valar(6:42:36 PM): what better gift for the Fellowship!
VardaValar1(6:43:11 PM): He represented a lot of Elves in his one self
Eonwe Valar(6:43:45 PM): he had to,.. no Noldo went
VardaValar1(6:43:55 PM): Legolas was part Noldo
Eonwe Valar(6:44:12 PM): I don't recall that
(6:44:38 PM)Orodreth V has entered the room.
Orodreth V(6:44:43 PM): Aiya all.
VardaValar1(6:44:44 PM): Aiya
Eonwe Valar(6:44:50 PM): howso, Varda?
Eonwe Valar(6:44:58 PM): heya Orodreth
VardaValar1(6:45:00 PM): We were talking about contributions made to the Fellowship by members
Orodreth V(6:45:07 PM): Ok.
Orodreth V(6:45:15 PM): Sorry if I pop out..
Orodreth V(6:45:22 PM): /me shakes his fist at the T-storm
VardaValar1(6:45:25 PM): Oropher was so angry at the Noldor that he preferred not to admit being part Noldorin
VardaValar1(6:45:33 PM): He was Legolas's grandfather
VardaValar1(6:45:49 PM): The Vanyar elf came through that side
VardaValar1(6:45:58 PM): Reason Thranduil was blonde in the Hobbit
Eonwe Valar(6:46:13 PM): which book is this in? I've gotta read it :}
VardaValar1(6:46:36 PM): Check my Legolas entry in the Encyc for references
Eonwe Valar(6:47:37 PM): will do :}
VardaValar1(6:47:39 PM): Legolas also helped after the War of the Ring
Orodreth V(6:47:57 PM): Ithilien.
VardaValar1(6:48:01 PM): aye
Orodreth V(6:48:14 PM): Hah! I do know something after all.
VardaValar1(6:48:19 PM): Go ahead and tell about it
VardaValar1(6:48:28 PM): Of course you do or you wouldn't be in the guild : )
Orodreth V(6:48:50 PM): After the war Legolas got permission from Aragorn and his father to set up an elven settlement in southren Ithilien.
Orodreth V(6:49:34 PM): and if I don't does!
Orodreth V(6:49:37 PM):
VardaValar1(6:49:44 PM): He took a good number of Mirkwood elves with him
VardaValar1(6:50:04 PM): The comment was that the elves' presence "blessed" the woods
VardaValar1(6:50:24 PM): I take it they got along well with Faramir's people
VardaValar1(6:51:14 PM): Anyone else like to comment? : )
VardaValar1(6:52:11 PM): What does Google know that we don't have? I'll take it : )
VardaValar1(6:52:45 PM): Anyone else here?
FarmerMaggotV(6:53:01 PM): I'm here
Eonwe Valar(6:53:02 PM): I'm checking for that reference :}
VardaValar1(6:53:08 PM): yay! Hi!
VardaValar1(6:53:23 PM): cool : )
VardaValar1(6:53:40 PM): Guess I could help with that
Orodreth V(6:53:59 PM): I'm running around the house doing a few things.
Orodreth V(6:54:09 PM): I'll try to add a comment here or there though.
Orodreth V(6:54:10 PM):
GwaihirValar(6:54:12 PM): I'm gaming
VardaValar1(6:54:48 PM): Unfinished Tales
VardaValar1(6:54:50 PM): got it
Eonwe Valar(6:55:20 PM): I found it,.. suspected it was UT
VardaValar1(6:55:23 PM): UT had a lot of nifty stuff
Eonwe Valar(6:55:33 PM): brb grabbing UT :}
VardaValar1(6:55:38 PM):
VardaValar1(6:55:58 PM): Anyone think of anything else Legolas did for the Fellowship?
VardaValar1(6:56:09 PM): Sam wanted to see Elves, he got one of his own : )
Eonwe Valar(6:56:41 PM): hehe, I've got more of my TOlkien books sitting off the shelf that on :}
GwaihirValar(6:56:49 PM): Legolas helped them get into Lorien
Eonwe Valar(6:56:52 PM): hahaha Varda :}
VardaValar1(6:56:56 PM): Aye, Gwaihir
GwaihirValar(6:56:58 PM): prevented them from getting shot on the spot
GwaihirValar(6:56:59 PM): lol
GwaihirValar(6:57:02 PM): would've been bad
VardaValar1(6:57:23 PM): His singing identified them as being good guys
VardaValar1(6:57:30 PM): about Nimrodel
VardaValar1(6:58:40 PM): I did a bit of inferring too, Eonwe, like using the Hobbit for Thranduil's hair color
VardaValar1(7:00:16 PM): Legolas seemed to know Aragorn and Gandalf already, perhaps
VardaValar1(7:00:46 PM): At the Council of Elrond, he keeps mentioning Gandalf's telling them this or that
VardaValar1(7:01:12 PM): Legolas keeps saying "we" about the guarding of Gollum as if he were part of it
VardaValar1(7:01:32 PM): Seemed to feel badly about the escape already, then much worse when he heard how bad it really was
VardaValar1(7:02:42 PM): "our doings"
VardaValar1(7:05:52 PM): "We guarded this creature day and night, at Gandalf's bidding, much though we wearied of the task."
VardaValar1(7:06:31 PM): "But Gandalf bade us still hope for his cure,
(7:06:52 PM)Orodreth V has left the room.
Eonwe Valar(7:08:34 PM): didn't find reference to the Noldoring blood, only the Sindarin
Eonwe Valar(7:08:41 PM): *Noldorin
VardaValar1(7:09:53 PM): In the Unfinished Tales, Oropher, probably of the House of Finrod, called himself Sindarin because he dislikedthe Noldorin exiles who lorded it over the Sindar
VardaValar1(7:10:05 PM): So I'll have to go dig it out, I guess
(7:10:10 PM)Chugin Chub has left the room.
Eonwe Valar(7:10:41 PM): sorry :}
VardaValar1(7:11:13 PM): Can't have unclear references. Thanks for letting me know
Eonwe Valar(7:11:59 PM): Was going to try and use the Sil to infer it could've been Vanyar who never left the shores of Cuivienen, but the Sil is arguing with me :}
VardaValar1(7:12:11 PM): Know the feeling : )
FarmerMaggotV(7:12:49 PM): gotta go
FarmerMaggotV(7:12:51 PM): Namarie
VardaValar1(7:12:54 PM): Namarie
VardaValar1(7:12:56 PM): digging now
(7:12:57 PM)Orodreth V has entered the room.
VardaValar1(7:12:59 PM): in UT
VardaValar1(7:13:03 PM): Welcome back : )
(7:13:10 PM)FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
VardaValar1(7:13:15 PM): We're digging into references : )
VardaValar1(7:13:33 PM): Supposed to be discussing if Legolas made a contribution to the Fellowship
VardaValar1(7:13:45 PM): now into his hard to find lineage
Eonwe Valar(7:13:51 PM): He did :} I promise :}
Eonwe Valar(7:14:28 PM): we've named sveral already,.. anyone else have anything left to add about Legolas? Anyone still here? :}
VardaValar1(7:15:35 PM): *waves hand*
VardaValar1(7:15:51 PM): Orodreth is IM'ing so he's alive
VardaValar1(7:16:52 PM): storm in his area, looks bad
VardaValar1(7:17:11 PM): Poor Legolas. No one to talk about him behind his back
VardaValar1(7:17:23 PM): We'll get Gimli in here
VardaValar1(7:17:36 PM): Get a bunch of girls together, you'd hear something at least
V Idril V(7:17:54 PM): lol
V Idril V(7:17:59 PM): im alive again
VardaValar1(7:18:01 PM): Idril is alive!
Eonwe Valar(7:18:14 PM): Well, the Sil implies it was the entire kin of Ingwë went to Valinor, so that thought's out the window :}
VardaValar1(7:18:14 PM): Come on. Help us say if Legolas was useful to the Fellowship
VardaValar1(7:18:25 PM): Aye, it dows
VardaValar1(7:18:28 PM): does
Eonwe Valar(7:18:28 PM): wb Idril and welcome to the magenta name spot :}
V Idril V(7:18:45 PM): thx?
GwaihirValar(7:18:50 PM): as I said, they would've all died if not for Legolas' presence at Lorien
VardaValar1(7:18:59 PM): Why? : )
GwaihirValar(7:19:20 PM): Haldir says the only reason we didn't shoot you was because we heard the voice of Legolas... I believe
VardaValar1(7:19:35 PM): right
VardaValar1(7:19:44 PM): they heard him singing of Nimrodel
Eonwe Valar(7:20:12 PM): Wow even Aragorn could've prevent their death? that's horrible, a relative of the Lady of the Wood, and the suitor for her granddaughter,.. they would've been in deep trouble for that one :}
VardaValar1(7:20:15 PM): figured they had to be friends if they did that
Eonwe Valar(7:20:24 PM): *couldn't have
VardaValar1(7:20:25 PM): They were ready to shoot from a distance
Eonwe Valar(7:21:27 PM): ah, a loophole! :}
VardaValar1(7:21:32 PM): hehe
Orodreth V(7:21:33 PM): Boo, by the way.
VardaValar1(7:21:36 PM): eep!
Accidentally didn't save the  rest. Arathorn emailed the next part. Thanks!

Eonwe Valar (8:21:34 PM): Majin boo? :}
Eonwe Valar (8:21:46 PM): nm :}
Eonwe Valar (8:22:00 PM): here's the loopohole :}
VardaValar1 (8:22:03 PM): Naboo
Eonwe Valar (8:22:48 PM): "These were the three kindreds of the Eldalië, who passing
at length into the uttermost West in the days of the Trees are called the Calaquendi,
the Elves of the Light
Eonwe Valar (8:22:51 PM): .
Eonwe Valar (8:24:09 PM): But others of the Eldar there were who set out indeed upon
the westward march, but became lost upon the long road, or turned aside, or
lingered on the shores of MiddlE-Earth; and these were for the most part of the
kindred of the
Eonwe Valar (8:24:19 PM): Teleri, as is told thereafter."
Eonwe Valar (8:25:19 PM): I can just barely infer that that "most" means there were some from at least the Noldor and possibly the Vanyar who paused along the way :}
VardaValar1 (8:25:48 PM): "for the most part"
Orodreth V (8:26:12 PM): What are we deciding now?
Eonwe Valar (8:27:12 PM): We're still talking about contributions Legolas made to the
VardaValar1 (8:27:25 PM): I think he means your loophole quote
Eonwe Valar (8:27:46 PM): side topic: did Legolas represent by lineage most or a;ll the
VardaValar1 (8:28:21 PM): I said yes, but since I failed to put down the chapter with
the footnotes etc from the UT, am in trouble.
VardaValar1 (8:28:56 PM): We agree he's the son of Thranduil
VardaValar1 (8:29:04 PM): No mention is made of his mother
VardaValar1 (8:29:21 PM): I assume we agree he is very familiar with the Silvan elves
that he lives with
Eonwe Valar (8:29:22 PM): Well, I don't know about that,.. :} j/k :}
VardaValar1 (8:29:25 PM): lol
VardaValar1 (8:29:29 PM): doomed
Eonwe Valar (8:29:32 PM): that was about Legolas as his father :}
Eonwe Valar (8:29:48 PM): I can agree with that :}
Eonwe Valar (8:30:06 PM): not the doomed part :} the Silvan part
VardaValar1 (8:30:16 PM): You mean Thranduil as Legolas's father, I think
Eonwe Valar (8:30:28 PM): ack yes :}
VardaValar1 (8:30:33 PM): okie, so he could represent the people he helped rule
VardaValar1 (8:30:39 PM): the Silvans
VardaValar1 (8:31:02 PM): Hey, maybe his mother is Silvan, but no way to know
Eonwe Valar (8:31:14 PM): Well, I suppose in a general way all Elves, since the Noldor
did not for the most part consider it their concern anymore
VardaValar1 (8:31:15 PM): So would you call Thranduil at least Sindarin?
Eonwe Valar (8:31:33 PM): Yes, Thranduil is by lineage Sindarin
VardaValar1 (8:31:39 PM): So that's two
VardaValar1 (8:31:50 PM): And why is Thranduil blonde?
VardaValar1 (8:32:08 PM): guess you could use your loophole on it
Eonwe Valar (8:32:16 PM): yep :}
VardaValar1 (8:32:26 PM): So would you agree Oropher is Thranduil's father?
Eonwe Valar (8:32:40 PM): Can't argue with the books :}
Eonwe Valar (8:32:58 PM): well, I can, but not very well :}
VardaValar1 (8:32:59 PM): mentions kin in Lorien, hmm
VardaValar1 (8:33:01 PM): lol
VardaValar1 (8:33:11 PM): I can argue with them and be wrong : )
VardaValar1 (8:33:56 PM): Lot of people talking in the room with me, pardon
VardaValar1 (8:34:15 PM): What would you say Oropher was?
Eonwe Valar (8:34:58 PM): Sindarin
VardaValar1 (8:35:11 PM): So would he, no matter if he had Noldor in him
VardaValar1 (8:35:50 PM): "the Sindarin Princes of the Silvan Elves" UT
VardaValar1 (8:35:57 PM): appendix b
Eonwe Valar (8:35:57 PM): agreed
Eonwe Valar (8:36:05 PM): appendix b?
Eonwe Valar (8:36:36 PM): looking
VardaValar1 (8:37:37 PM): Oropher and his Sindarins wanted to return to the Silvan life
VardaValar1 (8:37:55 PM): the natural way before the Valar disturbed it
VardaValar1 (8:39:27 PM): who are the kin in Lorien?
VardaValar1 (8:39:38 PM): the silvans?
Eonwe Valar (8:41:25 PM): seems so
Eonwe Valar (8:41:37 PM): it says "his people and their kin"
VardaValar1 (8:43:38 PM): app A tells more about the kind of Silvan, origin Teleri, remotekin of the Sindar. From the Teleri who were stopped by the mountainsand stayed at the Vale of the Anduin
VardaValar1 (8:43:42 PM): Vale of Anduin
VardaValar1 (8:43:56 PM): Made them closer to the Nandor
VardaValar1 (8:44:07 PM): who went to Beleriand
VardaValar1 (8:44:26 PM): Became hardly distinguishable from Avari
VardaValar1 (8:45:18 PM): but they remembered they were in origin Eldar, of the Third Clan,and welcomed the Noldor and especially Sindar who migrated eastward
VardaValar1 (8:45:46 PM): this gave them order and wisdom
VardaValar1 (8:46:48 PM): not finding it, drat
VardaValar1 (8:48:05 PM): Remind me to always write down chapter name and appendix name :-)
Eonwe Valar (8:49:13 PM): :}
VardaValar1 (8:50:07 PM): I know it exists and I'm not the only one to have referred to it
VardaValar1 (8:50:22 PM): but that doesn't hold water : )
VardaValar1 (8:50:29 PM): I'll have to locate it
Eonwe Valar (8:50:53 PM): ok :}
Eonwe Valar (8:51:01 PM): No hurry to find it today :}
VardaValar1 (8:51:13 PM): Does that mean I have to take down the article until I can prove it better? : )
Eonwe Valar (8:51:33 PM): no :}
VardaValar1 (8:51:38 PM): I'm thinking maybe
Orodreth V (8:52:25 PM): Fun with color commentary of people discussing a storm right over our collective heads..
Orodreth V (8:52:33 PM): /me runs back down stairs
VardaValar1 (8:54:48 PM): I should probably cut the article out until I can back it up properly.
Eonwe Valar (8:58:12 PM): need not remove the whole thing
(8:58:13 PM) V Idril V has left the room.
VardaValar1 (8:58:29 PM): just the footnote
Eonwe Valar (8:58:33 PM): yes
VardaValar1 (8:58:41 PM): Your loophole kills a good chunk of the argument oo
VardaValar1 (8:58:43 PM): too
VardaValar1 (8:58:55 PM): but
Eonwe Valar (8:59:03 PM): but then you'd ave to change it right back if you didn't have an original copy without the change
Eonwe Valar (8:59:25 PM): so I guess that means it'd be easier to take down :}
VardaValar1 (8:59:27 PM): I am pretty sure I found the reference in the books
VardaValar1 (8:59:34 PM): just not where
VardaValar1 (9:00:28 PM): ok, guess more work to do
VardaValar1 (9:00:41 PM): but the comp to do it with is sending out a beep noise when I turn it on
VardaValar1 (9:00:46 PM): memory not being found
VardaValar1 (9:01:15 PM): I have to go
VardaValar1 (9:01:19 PM): Namarie
Eonwe Valar (9:01:21 PM): ok take care :}
(9:01:23 PM) VardaValar1 has left the room.

(Varda completely removed her Legolas article for a later rewrite with better references.)